Maga crowd

[MDC 7,882]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

The Mcdonalds down the street from me is hiring at wages above the minimum.   They have to in order to fill the positions.   Why would getting rid of the minimum reduce that?

I never said it would. Tampa said the minimum wage is the reason why our working class is cratering. 

[RLLD 4,275]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

The Mcdonalds down the street from me is hiring at wages above the minimum.   They have to in order to fill the positions.   Why would getting rid of the minimum reduce that?

What I hear time and again is that they cannot live off of these jobs, and I agree, which is why people should not.  they are entry level jobs intended to be a starting point, not a career.

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

2 minutes ago, MDC said:

That is the point. If you’re arguing that unskilled US workers could compete with workers in Mexico / China etc. if they were willing / able to accept the same wages and lack of benefits / labor protections you will get no argument from me. I like the fact that Americans who are willing to work live at a better standard than slave labor from sh1thole countries. 

Wow, stuck on stupid.  If there were no minimum wage, businesses would be hiring tons of people at lower wages and people who aren't employed - because of their lack of skills, would be able to get a job and learn a skill.  In turn, they now have a skill that someone else might be willing to pay more money for.  That translates into personal and economical growth.  The businesses who are paying the lower skilled people would be forced, by the economy and not the government, to increase their wages to not constantly be losing their employees.

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

5 minutes ago, MDC said:

I never said it would. Tampa said the minimum wage is the reason why our working class is cratering. 

You're understanding correctly... and I'm right.

As evidence... our wonderful (yes, sarcasm), Governor here in NJ is raising the minimum wage... eventually to $15/hr.  A few business owners I know, most Republicans, some Democrats, all said the same thing.  "It's going to hurt the workers".  Why?  Because all of them have a certain amount of unskilled employees.  Because the minimum wage is at $8.50, the businesses can invest in their employees by teaching them a skill.  In July, the minimum wage goes to $10, then $11 the following year.  EVERY business owner to a man (and woman in certain cases), said that the cost then won't justify teaching them that skill.  They're better off as owners going out and hiring people with that skill already.

 

The result?  The unskilled worker will not have a skill until said unskilled worker learns a skill... on their own dime (instead of the business investing in their employee).  Meaning, they'll have less money.  The alternative is to stay in their unskilled status and... have less money.  Win/win if your objective is to oppress people financially.  Oh, wait, that's what Democrats do!  I think they call it Welfare.

[Strike 6,019]

8 minutes ago, MDC said:

I never said it would. Tampa said the minimum wage is the reason why our working class is cratering. 

Quote

You’re right in the sense that if unskilled labor in the US were willing to earn the same slave wages as workers in India or China without benefits or OSHA or other labor protections US businesses would probably hire them right here instead. 

[MDC 7,882]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You're understanding correctly... and I'm right.

Sure you are dear.

[Strike 6,019]

9 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

What I hear time and again is that they cannot live off of these jobs, and I agree, which is why people should not.  they are entry level jobs intended to be a starting point, not a career.

Yup.   A term I've heard that I like is that these should be considered "transitional jobs", a job you take while you prepare yourself for a career.  When I was 16 I worked at a Mcdonalds.  One of my managers, on the night shift, was a college student working his way through school.  That makes total sense and seems the perfect example of what type of people should be working those jobs.

[MDC 7,882]

2 minutes ago, Strike said:

Is McDonalds outsourcing cashier and fry chef jobs to China and India? Because obviously that’s not what I was talking about. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

2 minutes ago, MDC said:

Is McDonalds outsourcing cashier and fry chef jobs to China and India? Because obviously that’s not what I was talking about. 

Yes, they are.  Haven't you ever walked into a McDonalds and manually placed your own order at a computer monitor?  I believe that is the outsourced cashier you're denying exists.

[MDC 7,882]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yes, they are.  Haven't you ever walked into a McDonalds and manually placed your own order at a computer monitor?  I believe that is the outsourced cashier you're denying exists.

That’s automation not outsourcing. 

[Strike 6,019]

4 minutes ago, MDC said:

Is McDonalds outsourcing cashier and fry chef jobs to China and India? Because obviously that’s not what I was talking about. 

Getting rid of the minimum wage would never result in unskilled labor working for the wages they work for in China/India here.  It's too easy to live off the government teet.  If that were the case we wouldn't need illegals doing the work "Americans won't do" because employers could just hire Americans under the table like they do illegals at those horrific wages, right?

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

That’s automation not outsourcing. 

Outsourcing to automation.  Meaning, a lower skilled person does not have a job because minimum wage is too high for that position.

[Strike 6,019]

Just now, MDC said:

That’s automation not outsourcing. 

Much of the reasoning fast food is automating is due to the increased minimum wage requirements.  Same thing with agriculture.  Get rid of illegals and watch the agriculture industry embrace automation for picking crops.  Already happening but will be accelerated.

[MDC 7,882]

9 minutes ago, Strike said:

Getting rid of the minimum wage would never result in unskilled labor working for the wages they work for in China/India here.  It's too easy to live off the government teet.  If that were the case we wouldn't need illegals doing the work "Americans won't do" because employers could just hire Americans under the table like they do illegals at those horrific wages, right?

Getting rid of the min wage wouldn’t lead to India / China wages. It wouldn’t lead to increased jobs or wages for unskilled workers either, which is Tampa’s claim.

[Strike 6,019]

Just now, MDC said:

Getting rid of the min wage wouldn’t lead to India / China wages. It wouldn’t lead to increased jobs or wages for unskilled workers either, which is Tampa’s claim.

Of course it would.  You should take a basic economics class.

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

Getting rid of the min wage wouldn’t lead to India / China wages. It wouldn’t lead to increased jobs or wages for unskilled workers either, which is Tampa’s claim.

Yes, it would.  Because businesses wouldn't be forced to outsource to other countries.  They can get that labor here.

[RLLD 4,275]

2 minutes ago, MDC said:

Getting rid of the min wage wouldn’t lead to India / China wages. It wouldn’t lead to increased jobs or wages for unskilled workers either, which is Tampa’s claim.

I don't understand how you think that is true. 

[MDC 7,882]

10 minutes ago, Strike said:

Much of the reasoning fast food is automating is due to the increased minimum wage requirements.  

Fast food is automating because automation is always going to be cheaper than labor. That’s happening regardless of wages. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

2 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

I don't understand how you think that is true. 

Because it's logic and common sense and Dems do use those in decision making.

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

Fast food is automating because automation is always going to be cheaper than labor. That’s happening regardless of wages. 

I have to break it to you, but the reason it got to that point, was because minimum wage was too high.

[MDC 7,882]

7 minutes ago, Strike said:

Of course it would.  You should take a basic economics class.

Basic economics taught you that eliminating the minimum wage is going to boost unskilled US worker salaries?  

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

Just now, MDC said:

Basic economics taught you that eliminating the minimum wage is going to boost unskilled US worker salaries?  

No, it taught people that unskilled workers would be able to boost their own marketability by having a job that taught them skills.  A job that they no longer would have if minimum wage was too high.

[EternalShinyAndChrome 4,339]

Tbay/Strike owning this thread.  MDC taking yet another beating with logic and facts.

[MDC 7,882]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I have to break it to you, but the reason it got to that point, was because minimum wage was too high.

I hate to break it to you but companies automate because automation is always cheaper than labor. You think McDonalds isn’t going to start replacing their cashiers with touch screens in 2nd and 3rd workd countries?

[MDC 7,882]

1 minute ago, EternalShinyAndChrome said:

Tbay/Strike owning this thread.  MDC taking yet another beating with logic and facts.

That’s how you win a thread at the GC. 2-3 people repeat their dumb opinions loudly until guys like me get bored and go to lunch. I should automate my replies.

[RLLD 4,275]

10 minutes ago, MDC said:

Fast food is automating because automation is always going to be cheaper than labor. That’s happening regardless of wages. 

Not exactly.   When you implement a tech you often have a lifespan.   If you invest into a technology to replace some existing solution there is a cost. The goal is to recoup that cost in as short a period as possible because eventually you will have to replace it, and again absorb costs.

Right now the low cost have wages makes a technology solution less palatable, but when you jack up the costs, you instantly change the payback period, and give that technology-based solution more value.

[Strike 6,019]

3 minutes ago, MDC said:

I hate to break it to you but companies automate because automation is always cheaper than labor. You think McDonalds isn’t going to start replacing their cashiers with touch screens in 2nd and 3rd workd countries?

That's simply not true, and I'm not going to get in to the why because you're just a troll.  I will leave you with this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-increases-spur-fast-food-chains-to-consider-automation-2018-1

I could link to numerous articles over the last 10 years where the businesses themselves say they're automating mainly due to increased minimum wages but then you'd just whine that those people are biased. 

[12th Man 884]

Poor MDC.   Knows less about economics than he does politics. Poor bastard. Just get the coffee ready. 

[RLLD 4,275]

The government has a long history of doing things to fart with the economy, primarily in some sense of fairness etc, but time and again their actual results only hurt people.  You cannot mess around too much with the free markets without creating unnatural and unpredictable results. Any pursuit that focuses on equality of outcomes over equality of opportunity is going to have more negative outcomes than positive.  But they seem incapable of learning that lesson.

[MDC 7,882]

9 minutes ago, Strike said:

That's simply not true, and I'm not going to get in to the why because you're just a troll.  I will leave you with this:

https://www.businessinsider.com/minimum-wage-increases-spur-fast-food-chains-to-consider-automation-2018-1

I could link to numerous articles over the last 10 years where the businesses themselves say they're automating mainly due to increased minimum wages but then you'd just whine that those people are biased. 

Businesses complain about labor costs? Get out of dodge. Oddly enough the trend toward automation seems to be happening everywhere, including countries with much cheaper labor than the US. How do you explain that?

[Strike 6,019]

4 minutes ago, 12th Man said:

Poor MDC.   Knows less about economics than he does politics. Poor bastard. Just get the coffee ready. 

We better not tell him about these things called coffee makers.  Don't want him to have to worry about losing his job.

[Strike 6,019]

1 minute ago, MDC said:

Businesses complain about labor costs? Get out of dodge.

ROFLMAO.  Yeah, they're biased.  Just like I predicted you'd respond.  Such a 'tard.

[RLLD 4,275]

Just now, MDC said:

Businesses complain about labor costs? Get out of dodge. Oddly enough the trend toward automation seems to be happening everywhere, including countries with much cheaper labor than the US. How do you explain that?

Natural evolution.  And based on the type of industry automation arises due to a range of factors outside of money that also include safety, quality on and on.....each area of the economy, and industry will make the decision based on a variety of factors that typically end with costs.

[TBayXXXVII 2,669]

2 minutes ago, MDC said:

Businesses complain about labor costs? Get out of dodge. Oddly enough the trend toward automation seems to be happening everywhere, including countries with much cheaper labor than the US. How do you explain that?

That's very EASY to explain.  Because businesses have already invested in the technology, it doesn't really cost them any more money to incorporate them every where.  And really, why wouldn't you.  Since you have already established a new standard, why not just keep it going?

[MDC 7,882]

3 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

That's very EASY to explain.  Because businesses have already invested in the technology, it doesn't really cost them any more money to incorporate them every where.  And really, why wouldn't you.  Since you have already established a new standard, why not just keep it going?

Oh so the California minimum wage is why McDonalds is automating in Cambodia. They must have taught this stuff in the basic economics course Strike was talking about.

[MTSkiBum 1,626]

In my opinion automation is happening due to a drop in the cost of technology not an increase in labor price.

 

Automation is coming.

[MDC 7,882]

5 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

In my opinion automation is happening due to a drop in the cost of technology not an increase in labor price.

 

Automation is coming.

Exactly. 

[Frozenbeernuts 2,332]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Outsourcing to automation.  Meaning, a lower skilled person does not have a job because minimum wage is too high for that position.

Minimum wage didn't cause this It was going to happen no matter what

[RLLD 4,275]

17 minutes ago, MTSkiBum said:

In my opinion automation is happening due to a drop in the cost of technology not an increase in labor price.

 

Automation is coming.

Where appropriate, absolutely.   Where financially advantageous sure. But applicability is a huge factor, and I have to stress that recovery of costs is pivotal.

[MTSkiBum 1,626]

6 minutes ago, Ray Lewis's Limo Driver said:

Where appropriate, absolutely.   Where financially advantageous sure. But applicability is a huge factor, and I have to stress that recovery of costs is pivotal. 

I know our company is working on a very large project to automate the job of engineers. This project has been ongoing for years and is still a long ways away from any results, but I stand by my statement.

Automation is coming.