Leonard Fournette vs the World

[TBayXXXVII 2,149]

3 minutes ago, jrokh said:

I believe 3.8 yards a carry stinks. I find it hard to believe that one could think otherwise, but here we are...

Yup, here we are.  You look at a box score and make an opinion.  I watch the games.

[jrokh 569]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yup, here we are.  You look at a box score and make an opinion.  I watch the games.

Whenever I watch Tampa, I have always thought that RJ is pedestrian. The YPC average just backs up the obvious. But hey that's why you are king of the homers... Carry on your majesty... 

[TBayXXXVII 2,149]

29 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Whenever I watch Tampa, I have always thought that RJ is pedestrian. The YPC average just backs up the obvious. But hey that's why you are king of the homers... Carry on your majesty... 

No, not a king by any stretch, I just know what I'm talking about.

[jrokh 569]

2 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

No, not a king by any stretch, I just know what I'm talking about.

Right just like when you guaranteed Shady would be cut, just like when you said Jonathan Taylor couldn't be trusted because he went to Wisconsin. Yup, you sure know what your talking about, my liege....

[weepaws 2,488]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Arians doesn't care at all about fantasy football.  Believe me, I get that this site is about fantasy football... I argued that point last year in the thread about Godwin and Winston, but in both (all), cases, it comes down to how the NFL team uses them... not how we want them to be used.

 

Last year, the arguments were that Winston stinks (he did), and that Tampa had a lot of weapons (they did), so downgrade Evans and Godwin.  The thing was, real NFL doesn't work that way.  Tampa was still going to throw the ball 600 times.  Winston was not going to get benched.  Arians doesn't maximize his TE's.  Winston's deep ball accuracy sucked.  All of those components lead to Winston finishing as a top 3 QB, and both Evans and Godwin were top 3 WRs when they got hurt.

 

It's the same here.  YOU may think that Fournette is a better RB.  Well, he's not.  You may think that Jones is a bad RB.  He's not.  You may think that Arians is going to make Fournette the lead guy.  He won't.  Barring injuries and mental lapses (fumbles, missed blocking assignments, or bad penalties), Jones will get twice as many opportunities than Fournette.  Like I said above.  You can pretend that Fournette's "ability" will command more opportunities, but the facts are, "ball in hand", Jones and Fournette are pretty similar and both are running behind a very bad run blocking offensive line.  Jones is clearly a better pass catcher than he has been in the past, so Fournette no longer has a sizeable advantage in this category.

 

After 3 weeks, nothing has changed.  Jones will get the bulk of work, especially on 1st and 2nd downs.  He's shown to be extremely effective on short yardage plays.  On 3rd/4th and short, he has 5 rushes and 5 first downs.  Inside the 10, he has 5 attempts with 1 TD and 2 first downs.  On 1st and 10 (or less), he's averaging 4.2 yards per attempt (22).  He's averaging 3.3 ypa (8), on 2nd down and 4.4 on 3rd down.

Fournette isn't really doing any better... actually, a bit worse.  On 1st down, Fournette is averaging 4.5 ypa on 1st down.  Yeah, that's better than 4.2, but here's the thing... 45 of his 66 yards came on 1 play.  In the other 13 rush attempts, he has 21 yards.  His 2nd down's are better, 29 yards on 7 carries.  He has 1 rush attempt on 3rd down... 2 yards.

 

Yes, Fournette had good numbers in Jacksonville... where they were more dedicated to the run and had a better run blocking line.  But he isn't in Jacksonville anymore... he's in Tampa where it's the exact opposite.  This is an offense that's more dedicated to the pass and a poorer run blocking line.

1. Never have I said R Jones was a bad rb, before they picked up Fournette, I said he could be a low rb2 and or a high rb3. 

2. No matter what the coach does, at this moment , Fournette leads the two in ff points , both in non and ppr. 

3. I think this weekend , Fournette sees more work, right now , I think coach is enjoying having both of them, and I can see Fournette getting o let’s say16 plus touches this weekend. 

4. Thanks. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,149]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

1. Never have I said R Jones was a bad rb, before they picked up Fournette, I said he could be a low rb2 and or a high rb3. 

2. No matter what the coach does, at this moment , Fournette leads the two in ff points , both in non and ppr. 

3. I think this weekend , Fournette sees more work, right now , I think coach is enjoying having both of them, and I can see Fournette getting o let’s say16 plus touches this weekend. 

4. Thanks. 

1. When I said "you", I was speaking in generalities.  I made the point about saying that both RB's are pretty equal.
2. Doesn't matter that Fournette is leading.  He's leading because of extenuation circumstances.  If that's what you're going to base the season on, it's a fool's errand.
3. There is a 0.0% chance Fournette has more touches than Jones unless Jones causes it, via injury, fumbling, or missing a block... it won't be because of anything Fournette did.  All things being equal, Jones gets 15 and Fournette 10.  If the Bucs are up big and early, Jones 20 and Fournette 12.  If it's a blowout, Fournette will get all of the 4th Q touches, to get him extra reps.
4. You're welcome.

[TBayXXXVII 2,149]

2 hours ago, jrokh said:

Right just like when you guaranteed Shady would be cut, just like when you said Jonathan Taylor couldn't be trusted because he went to Wisconsin. Yup, you sure know what your talking about, my liege....

I "guaranteed" that McCoy would be cut?  Yeah, don't think so.  I said I know my team... Jonathan Taylor isn't on the Bucs.  Move on boy.

[weepaws 2,488]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

1. When I said "you", I was speaking in generalities.  I made the point about saying that both RB's are pretty equal.
2. Doesn't matter that Fournette is leading.  He's leading because of extenuation circumstances.  If that's what you're going to base the season on, it's a fool's errand.
3. There is a 0.0% chance Fournette has more touches than Jones unless Jones causes it, via injury, fumbling, or missing a block... it won't be because of anything Fournette did.  All things being equal, Jones gets 15 and Fournette 10.  If the Bucs are up big and early, Jones 20 and Fournette 12.  If it's a blowout, Fournette will get all of the 4th Q touches, to get him extra reps.
4. You're welcome.

When it comes to ff, the player with more ff points, is the player I want on my ff team. 

There wasn’t any chance week two either, but Fournette had more touches, I’m sure that was also because of extenuation circumstances also. 

Mmm   

Thanks. 

[AxeElf 787]

25 minutes ago, weepaws said:

When it comes to ff, the player with more ff points, is the player I want on my ff team.

Yeah, but that's only because you're an idiot who doesn't understand the basic underpinnings of fantasy football, yet you post enough to confuse others who may get the impression that you know what you're babbling about.  It's a sad situation, really.

If an owner such as you, who was legitimately excited about Fournette signing with the Bucs, scooped him up for their fantasy team, this is how the first three weeks went:

Week 1:  Started Fournette, earned 1.9 fantasy points.

Week 2:  Benched Fournette and missed out on his garbage time 23.6 fantasy points.

Week 3:  Started Fournette, earned 2.2 fantasy points.

So yeah, if you're in a total points Draft Master league or something, Fournette has been worth more to your team than Jones.

If you're in any kind of a normal league, your mis-assessment of Fournette has probly cost you at least two games already.  But you're weepaws, you'd rather have the guy with more ff points than the guy who will get you wins, so you go girl.

[weepaws 2,488]

37 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Yeah, but that's only because you're an idiot who doesn't understand the basic underpinnings of fantasy football, yet you post enough to confuse others who may get the impression that you know what you're babbling about.  It's a sad situation, really.

If an owner such as you, who was legitimately excited about Fournette signing with the Bucs, scooped him up for their fantasy team, this is how the first three weeks went:

Week 1:  Started Fournette, earned 1.9 fantasy points.

Week 2:  Benched Fournette and missed out on his garbage time 23.6 fantasy points.

Week 3:  Started Fournette, earned 2.2 fantasy points.

So yeah, if you're in a total points Draft Master league or something, Fournette has been worth more to your team than Jones.

If you're in any kind of a normal league, your mis-assessment of Fournette has probly cost you at least two games already.  But you're weepaws, you'd rather have the guy with more ff points than the guy who will get you wins, so you go girl.

If your confessed like you, I don’t see nor have I seen any say they drafted him as one of their top two Rbs  

I’ve seen most say used in a flex spot. 

Now if your a person who drafted R Jones as your rb2 opps. 

Jones is 34th in points ppr and 31st in avg, so who’s losing those ff games? 

Thanks  

 

 

 

[AxeElf 787]

1 minute ago, weepaws said:

Thanks

You are also the only person who thanks everyone for making you look like a fool.

[AxeElf 787]

4 minutes ago, weepaws said:

If your confessed like you, I don’t see your have I seen any say they drafted him as one of their top two Rbs  

I’ve seen most say used in a flex spot. 

Now if your a person who drafted R Jones as your rb2 opps. 

Jones is 34th in points ppr and 31st in avg, so who’s losing those ff games? 

Thanks

And by the way, that sounds about right for a flex RB (or a RB2 in a 20 team league).  Moreover, Jones is delivering a nice constant 10ish points per week, so he's reliably doing what he was drafted to do.

Jones is performing as expected, Fournette is costing people games.

[jrokh 569]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I "guaranteed" that McCoy would be cut?  Yeah, don't think so.  I said I know my team... Jonathan Taylor isn't on the Bucs.  Move on boy.

But you were wrong about ‘your’ team, shady wasn’t cut he is still there. You clearly don’t know what you’re talking about even While being the king of the homers. Just like you don’t know what you’re talking about when you call a rb with a career 3.9 ypc a good rb.  As for moving on someone needs to keep the king honest, lest he become drunk with power...

[TBayXXXVII 2,149]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

When it comes to ff, the player with more ff points, is the player I want on my ff team. 

There wasn’t any chance week two either, but Fournette had more touches, I’m sure that was also because of extenuation circumstances also. 

Mmm   

Thanks. 

Guess you didn't watch the game.  Both Jones and Fournette had 6 carries in the 4th Q, Jones had 21 yards, Fournette had 17.  On Jones' 7th carry, there was a fumble (credited to Brady), and Jones got benched.  From that point on, Fournette had 6 carries and Jones didn't play one snap.   Not carries/targets/touches... he wasn't on the field, at all.  So yes, extenuating circumstances.  I think the proof of that was Sunday when not only did Jones start, he had 13 carries to Fournettes 7... had 4 targets to Fournettes 2.

[nobody 2,071]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

There is a 0.0% chance Fournette has more touches than Jones unless Jones causes it, via injury, fumbling, or missing a block... it won't be because of anything Fournette did.  All things being equal, Jones gets 15 and Fournette 10.  If the Bucs are up big and early, Jones 20 and Fournette 12.  If it's a blowout, Fournette will get all of the 4th Q touches, to get him extra reps.

Cool, so as long as RoJo plays well he'll continue to get carries.  Thanks for the hard hitting analysis.

[weepaws 2,488]

2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Guess you didn't watch the game.  Both Jones and Fournette had 6 carries in the 4th Q, Jones had 21 yards, Fournette had 17.  On Jones' 7th carry, there was a fumble (credited to Brady), and Jones got benched.  From that point on, Fournette had 6 carries and Jones didn't play one snap.   Not carries/targets/touches... he wasn't on the field, at all.  So yes, extenuating circumstances.  I think the proof of that was Sunday when not only did Jones start, he had 13 carries to Fournettes 7... had 4 targets to Fournettes 2.

That’s a fact, that did take place, this weekend I think it’ll be Fournette turn. 

[weepaws 2,488]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

And by the way, that sounds about right for a flex RB (or a RB2 in a 20 team league).  Moreover, Jones is delivering a nice constant 10ish points per week, so he's reliably doing what he was drafted to do.

Jones is performing as expected, Fournette is costing people games.

Yeah great for a flex rb, crappy for a rb2, no matter how large the league.  

Its ok, you don’t need to justify your crappy pick with me, I don’t matter. 

Thanks. 

[AxeElf 787]

12 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Yeah great for a flex rb, crappy for a rb2, no matter how large the league.

In a 20 team league that starts 2 RBs (and a flex) at least the top 40 RBs are going to be starting every week, with a few more being flexed, and as we get into bye season, a few more sitting out the week.

And you think the RB30 is a crappy pick?

14 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I don’t matter.

No kidding.

[weepaws 2,488]

2 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

In a 20 team league that starts 2 RBs (and a flex) at least the top 40 RBs are going to be starting every week, with a few more being flexed, and as we get into bye season, a few more sitting out the week.

And you think the RB30 is a crappy pick?

No kidding.

That would be rb 34 in points. 13 Rbs two are better. 

Yeah I think that person that did that draft did a crappy job. 

Thanks. 

[AxeElf 787]

4 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Yeah I think that person that did that draft did a crappy job.

What draft are you talking about?

I'm sure whoever you're talking about will be pleased to learn that an absolute drooling moron doesn't think he did a good job in his draft.

[weepaws 2,488]

1 minute ago, AxeElf said:

What draft are you talking about?

I'm sure whoever you're talking about will be pleased to learn that an absolute drooling moron doesn't think he did a good job in his draft.

I’m sure a fool like you has your feelings hurt. 

 

[AxeElf 787]

10 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I’m sure a fool like you has your feelings hurt.

God damn it, you're going to make me violate Proverbs 26:4 again--but you clearly know Axe Elf about as well as you know fantasy football.

It doesn't hurt my feelings to have mouth-breathers like you steering people wrong in fantasy football advice, but it IS an affront to the sensibilities of any compassionate person to see an idiot causing harm to others' fantasy teams through their utter and unrepentant ignorance.

So.. no answer?

[TBayXXXVII 2,149]

4 hours ago, nobody said:

Cool, so as long as RoJo plays well he'll continue to get carries.  Thanks for the hard hitting analysis.

There's people here who refuse to believe that.

[weepaws 2,488]

2 hours ago, AxeElf said:

God damn it, you're going to make me violate Proverbs 26:4 again--but you clearly know Axe Elf about as well as you know fantasy football.

It doesn't hurt my feelings to have mouth-breathers like you steering people wrong in fantasy football advice, but it IS an affront to the sensibilities of any compassionate person to see an idiot causing harm to others' fantasy teams through their utter and unrepentant ignorance.

So.. no answer?

Don’t take God’s name in vain.  

Your more like Proverbs 26: 24&25. 

Everyone knows that any advise given about ff is just a lucky guess, there is no absolute to any advise given that pertains to ff. 

I know those that reads anyone’s  advice understands that.  

And anyone that ask for advise that pertains to ff in the end makes up their own opinion, despite any advise that’s given. 

Thanks  

 

[weepaws 2,488]

5 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

There's people here who refuse to believe that.

I don’t believe it.  

I think Fournette will surpass him.  

Thanks. 

[Canadianfan 76]

The amount of time that has been spent dissecting Leonard Fournette’s fantasy value is mind blowing.  

At this point in time,  on a twelve team fantasy league, he’s nothing more than a bye week flex option. 

Unless there’s an injury to Jones, expect more of the same.  Move on folks 

 

[weepaws 2,488]

Oh I think Jones as two seasons in the system on Fournette. 

Fournette is the better player l and will over take Jones.  

But not right now, Fournette as missed the last two practices. 

 

[gitrdun 16]

I vote for weepaws, as I sit patiently with Fuornette on my bench. I really need him as my team has suffered injuries and I am 0-3. 

[unclemercy 51]

i was going to trade nyheim for rojo but thoight better of it. i dont need a crumby handcuff when we are playing covid roulette this year. obv this convo doesnt have an answer since everyone we are talking about stinks but i can win with crappy players its nbd to me.

[nobody 2,071]

Well it's week 4 and Fournette is hurt and not practicing.  He definitely isn't overtaking Ronald Jones this week.

[AxeElf 787]

2 hours ago, unclemercy said:

i was going to trade nyheim for rojo but thoight better of it.

How ironic.  Turns out you axually thought the worse of it.

Shoulda traded the "crumby handcuff" away while you could still get a starting RB for him.

[kutulu 1,554]

Out, Godwin too

[TBayXXXVII 2,149]

On 10/1/2020 at 12:38 PM, weepaws said:

Oh I think Jones as two seasons in the system on Fournette. 

Fournette is the better player l and will over take Jones.  

But not right now, Fournette as missed the last two practices. 

 

Jones has 1.  This is his second with Arians' offense.  Koetter was the HC for Jones in his rookie season.

[weepaws 2,488]

4 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Jones has 1.  This is his second with Arians' offense.  Koetter was the HC for Jones in his rookie season.

Right , two seasons. 

[TBayXXXVII 2,149]

8 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Right , two seasons. 

You said "...Jones as two seasons in the system on Fournette."  Meaning, he's been in the system 2 years more than Fournette.  That's not true.  This is Jones' 2nd year and Fournette's 1st, so he's been in the system only 1 year more than Fournette.

 

Now, if you just meant that this is Jones' second season, that's fine, but your wording didn't imply that.

[weepaws 2,488]

11 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

You said "...Jones as two seasons in the system on Fournette."  Meaning, he's been in the system 2 years more than Fournette.  That's not true.  This is Jones' 2nd year and Fournette's 1st, so he's been in the system only 1 year more than Fournette.

 

Now, if you just meant that this is Jones' second season, that's fine, but your wording didn't imply that.

Right. 

 

[RabidSeaCows 99]

Has it occurred to any of you that the point is irrelevant? I mean who's starting either with the WR's always hurt? Don't forget the Gronk distraction. Old man Brady calling non-run audibles at the line. Too bad his arm is only good for +15 yard throws...what?...maybe 3 times per game?

This is a lose-lose backfield. Tampa never was a run first offensive line or team. There's a reason no one started RB in NE. The culture appears to have followed him here. Brady might not have been the reason they rotated backs so often in NE, but it looks like he might have Leftwich's ear and it's hard to ignore a 6 time SB winner, I would imagine.

They will beat up a on the under .500 win teams and look pathetic vs real talented teams. You can change the QB's and RB's in TB. But you can't stop the culture of losing which starts with ownership.

[weepaws 2,488]

12 minutes ago, RabidSeaCows said:

Has it occurred to any of you that the point is irrelevant? I mean who's starting either with the WR's always hurt? Don't forget the Gronk distraction. Old man Brady calling non-run audibles at the line. Too bad his arm is only good for +15 yard throws...what?...maybe 3 times per game?

This is a lose-lose backfield. Tampa never was a run first offensive line or team. There's a reason no one started RB in NE. The culture appears to have followed him here. Brady might not have been the reason they rotated backs so often in NE, but it looks like he might have Leftwich's ear and it's hard to ignore a 6 time SB winner, I would imagine.

They will beat up a on the under .500 win teams and look pathetic vs real talented teams. You can change the QB's and RB's in TB. But you can't stop the culture of losing which starts with ownership.

Bite your finger, this is a war to the death heh.  

Yeah it as.  

[AxeElf 787]

3 minutes ago, RabidSeaCows said:

Has it occurred to any of you that the point is irrelevant?

No it hasn't; and would you like to know why?

Because the point isn't irrelevant.

The Buccaneers backfield isn't a fantasy goldmine, but whoever is the lead RB for the team is going to be a reliable low-end RB2 over the course of the season.  Whoever is the backup RB for the Buccaneers isn't going to be startable other than as a Hail Mary in larger leagues.

It's relevant to know that the lead RB is Ronald Jones, and that the backup is Fournette.

8 minutes ago, RabidSeaCows said:

Old man Brady calling non-run audibles at the line. Too bad his arm is only good for +15 yard throws...what?...maybe 3 times per game?

Brady is one of the best deep ball passers in the league.  His completion percentage for passes 20 yards or more last year was 43%.  The league average was 38%.  Brady threw 7 TDs of 20 yards or more last season, his most since 2006.

[RabidSeaCows 99]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

No it hasn't; and would you like to know why?

Because the point isn't irrelevant.

The Buccaneers backfield isn't a fantasy goldmine, but whoever is the lead RB for the team is going to be a reliable low-end RB2 over the course of the season.  Whoever is the backup RB for the Buccaneers isn't going to be startable other than as a Hail Mary in larger leagues.

It's relevant to know that the lead RB is Ronald Jones, and that the backup is Fournette.

Brady is one of the best deep ball passers in the league.  His completion percentage for passes 20 yards or more last year was 43%.  The league average was 38%.  Brady threw 7 TDs of 20 yards or more last season, his most since 2006.

If he's still so great. Why did they let him walk? Someone knew something and This year is not last year. I don't know how old you are but no one can ditch father time forever. 

JMHO as a 55 year old who used to be super athletic. Once i hit 40....not so much...