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polecatt

Carson Wentz traded to the Colts

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For a 3rd in 2021, and a 2nd or 1st in 2022.

Not quite a Matthew Stafford deal, but both parties seem to be able to move on now.

The Colts have a QB.

Will be fun to see how this plays out

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If he's gonna succeed on part 2 of his career. At least he went to the place he has a chance to.

Like Polecatt said, gonna be interesting. 

If he's successful, they're a Super Bowl contender. If he's not. This team probably misses its window.

 

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1 hour ago, Kopy said:

If he's gonna succeed on part 2 of his career. At least he went to the place he has a chance to.

Like Polecatt said, gonna be interesting. 

If he's successful, they're a Super Bowl contender. If he's not. This team probably misses its window.

 

I like seeing this kind of movement with QBs.

Stafford I believe is good enough to win a Super Bowl with a good team like the Rams.

Wentz, well he won one in Philly on IR after being an MVP candidate most of the season. I think he'll be fine on a team like the Colts. I think his problem was more the dumpster fire that the eagles have become. I think he'll be at least as good there as Rivers was last season.

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well,  I think if Wentz cannot turn it around in Indy,  hes not going to ever turn it around.

Philly is a bit of a gong show,  and  hes going to a team  with a very good line, and what I consider to be better WR's  and a better run game and defense too.

This move could be good for him.

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30 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

well,  I think if Wentz cannot turn it around in Indy,  hes not going to ever turn it around.

Philly is a bit of a gong show,  and  hes going to a team  with a very good line, and what I consider to be better WR's  and a better run game and defense too.

This move could be good for him.

And a coach that has worked with him before. 

It’s going to be a very good move for both the Colts and Wentz.  

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They need a te more then a wr. 

Hunter Henry.  

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On 2/27/2021 at 2:58 PM, weepaws said:

They need a te more then a wr. 

Hunter Henry.  

Hunter Henry is a lot like OJ Howard.  They both can be counted on to do 2 things... 1) Get hurt and miss games and 2) Probably finish the season on IR.

Anyone investing real money in either of these two, are foolish.

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Hunter Henry would be an excellent pick up for the Colts.  

Thanks. 

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It's ok if Hunter Henry goes to the Colts and misses 15 out of 16 games, since they already have 3 other credible TEs to pick up the slack.

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Sure you both are talking about the same Hunter Henry   

He’s played in 79.6 % games played with the Chargers. 

That just shy of 13 out of 16 games. 

Sure he could miss 15 games , anyone can, I don’t see a history of it.  

He’s played in 51of 64 games.  

He would be a great addition to the Colts , and with Wentz record of usage with his te, he’ll be a great late round te.  

Thanks. 

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2 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

IF he stays healthy.

Can we not say the same of any nfl player? 

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14 hours ago, weepaws said:

He’s played in 51of 64 games.  

He missed the entire 2018 season.  In 5 seasons, the Chargers have played 80 games... Henry has played in 55 of them.

14 hours ago, weepaws said:

Can we not say the same of any nfl player? 

Do we really need to discuss the obvious?  Some positions are more volatile than others.  The TE position is one of them.  George Kittle has missed games in 3 of his 4 years.  OJ Howard has missed games in all 4 of his seasons.  Jordan Reed.  Kyle Rudolph.  Zach Ertz.  Gronk!!  In 2020, after a year off, it was the first time since 2012 that he played all 16 games (he did play a full season in 2014, they just sat him because they clinched their playoff spot).  Evan Engram.  All of these guys have missed games almost every year of their career.  The list of good TE's who play 16 games routinely is very small.  Adding one at a high price, because that's what Henry will command, is extremely risky.  Besides, Alie-Cox, Burton, and Doyle are all decent TE's.  Last year, those 3 guys accounted for 82 receptions, 895 yards, and 8 TD's.  That's pretty good for the TE position.  There's no need to go out and spend $10M+ for Henry, especially when you can already predict that he'll miss at least a couple of games.  Hurts more if he misses the end of the season (playoff time), and you've released one of the other TE's because you don't need 4.

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Yeah your right , I did miss the 2018 season  , sorry about that. 

Hunter Henry would be a great addition to the Colts , even though I missed the fact he missed the entire 2018 season. Making him a great late round te draft pick  

And no player is a productive player if there not playing, so the same can be said for any player  

Thanks  

 

 

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If Henry chooses the Money over winning, and most players do, this is the likeliest landing spot...

 

 

 

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The Jags aren't a bad spot really.  They're going to have Lawrence.  Robinson appears to be a good back, we'll see if he can continue.  Their WR corp looks like it has some nice players.  They apparently have holes at the tackle position, but sometimes a QB upgrade can help there.  Still, they cab go get a FA if need be as they apparently have over $80M in cap space.  Their defense blows though.  Not sure how much of that was personnel, coaching, both, or morale.

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23 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Hunter Henry is a lot like OJ Howard.  They both can be counted on to do 2 things... 1) Get hurt and miss games and 2) Probably finish the season on IR.

Anyone investing real money in either of these two, are foolish.

So anyone investing real money on Henry is foolish, expect for the Jags, that’s a real axe post. 

Colts have a def a run game and a much better Qb situation, that’s indeed where Henry should go. 

Stop with the hypocrisy. 

Jags need Qb and WRs  

Thanks  

 

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41 minutes ago, weepaws said:

So anyone investing real money on Henry is foolish, expect for the Jags, that’s a real axe post. 

Colts have a def a run game and a much better Qb situation, that’s indeed where Henry should go. 

Stop with the hypocrisy. 

Jags need Qb and WRs  

Thanks  

 

You're looking at this like a black and white issue, and it's not.  There are extenuating circumstances.  

The Colts are in a win-now mode.  They don't need to waste cap money on a player who's oft-injured and plays a position that isn't a need.  With over $82M, Jags have the most cap space in the NFL so they have the money to spend.  They could use a TE.  They still would be foolish to invest real money in him, but they aren't strapped like other teams are.  They have the luxury of being able to front load his contract so that they could part ways with him in two years if necessary.  In the immediate short term, they'll be able to give their young QB a reliable target to help his development.

The Jags are going to draft Lawrence, so they don't "need" a QB... they have one and he'll be cheap.  Assume $12 for draft picks and in-season spending money and they have about $70M to spend.  That's more than enough to sign A-Rob (or Godwin), and Henry and still have plenty to spend on the defense.  I assure you, if they were to sign him to a 4 year $45M deal with $30M of it guaranteed, I'll be saying they were foolish.

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No I’m looking at like this.  

I said Henry to the Colts , a playoff caliber team, would be a great match for Henry.  

You said, any team that would invest real money into either one is foolish. 

Now your saying maybe a team that’s less then a playoff caliber team would be a good fit. 

Thank you 

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You're conflating two separate arguments... 1) Fit and 2) Money.  I'm not.  I said that Jacksonville would be foolish to invest real money in him.  According to what I've read, Henry's market value is $10.5M AAV.  ANY team, including Jacksonville & Chargers, would be foolish to invest that type of money in him.  As I said though, Jacksonville has a luxury that very few teams have, and that's cap space.  While they would be foolish to invest that kind of money in him, it won't hurt or hinder them like it would other teams.  Again, the move, is still foolish (I keep repeating that because you apparently missed that in my last post when I said it).

Now, on to "Fit", Jacksonville would be a good fit because they don't have a good or reliable TE.  Having someone who would be a reliable target - when available - would help that offense and Lawrence's development.  Sure, they would still need to add a WR, but the foundation for a solid pass catching corp would be there.  As for the Colts, Alie-Cox is a restricted FA and Burton is an unrestricted FA.  The Colts could just re-up both of them and spend $3M and be fine.  Now, they do have the cap space.  I believe they're over $50M.  But to spend $10M of that on a guy who is likely to get hurt and more importantly, miss the post season, that's an extra $7M you're flushing down the toilet.  Now, if he's willing to take $6M... then that would be ok.  Honestly, I think they would be best served giving Godwin a big deal and moving on from Hilton... which should be easy since he's a FA.  If they let Mack sign elsewhere, they'll need to bring in another back as well.  So that's more money.  Godwin plus a RB should run them about $20M, which is about about 40% of their cap space.  Save $10 for draft picks and season operations, you're now with only $20M left.  It would be very foolish of them if they spent half of that on Henry.

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You pay the price to improve. 

Henry is clearly better then any te the Colts currently roster.  

And talk about staying healthy, T Burton nor Alie- Cox can, nor are they very productive. 

Wentz is a te type Qb.  

Henry as played in 26 games his last two seasons and has 115 rec. 

Combine Burton and Alie- Cox have played in 49 games and have produced 72 rec.  

I think Henry would be a very good investment for the Colts.  

 

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3 hours ago, weepaws said:

You pay the price to improve. 

Henry is clearly better then any te the Colts currently roster.  

And talk about staying healthy, T Burton nor Alie- Cox can, nor are they very productive. 

Wentz is a te type Qb.  

Henry as played in 26 games his last two seasons and has 115 rec. 

Combine Burton and Alie- Cox have played in 49 games and have produced 72 rec.  

I think Henry would be a very good investment for the Colts.  

 

In the last 2 years, Jack Doyle has caught 66 passes, for 699 yards, and 7 TD's.  You're leaving him out because.... why?  All 3, as a group are productive.  They in total, play all 16 games and cost half as much (combined), as what Henry is projected to get.  

Over the last 2 seasons, the 16 game average for Indy's current TE's is 82 receptions, 905 yards, and 7.5 TD's.  Henry's 16 game average (even though he only played in 13 games [average]), is 71 receptions, 778 yards, and 6 TD's.

Let's assume that the Colts swap out Doyle for Henry and he plays all 16 games and has a career year (see the 16 game average I just gave you).  Clearly Alie-Cox and Burton's production will drop... let's say by 50% (which in my opinion is extremely generous to you), the net result will be about 90 receptions for 1000 yards and 8 TD's.  Congratulations!  You just spent $5M extra for 8 receptions, 95 yards, 1 TD... over the course of a whole season.  That's assuming that Henry does something he's never done in his career... play all 16 games.  That's also ignoring the fact that Burton and Wentz have worked together.

Now, if Henry is willing to sign for, say.... $6M AAV, I'll completely agree with you.

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I didn’t mention Doyle, because you didn’t mention him. So I was just typing about the ones you typed about. 

Of course you agree with me. 

Thanks. 

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6 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I didn’t mention Doyle, because you didn’t mention him. So I was just typing about the ones you typed about. 

Of course you agree with me. 

Thanks. 

Actually, I did mention Doyle.  I've been saying all along that they had 3 TE's.  Who'd you think was the third one?

I will agree with you if they don't over pay him.  My assumption is that they will pay him what the expected market value is.

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I know you agree with me. 

Thanks. 

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1 minute ago, weepaws said:

Bases on this post , by you, where does it say anything about a third te , or even the name Doyle. 

 

In that one I didn't because I was referring to the two FA TE's.  Doyle is under contract.

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Don’t know, all I said was he would be a good fit with Wentz with the Colts. 

I’ll let Henry and his agent and the Colts talk about his contract.  

And you said anyone that would pay him good money is foolish, unless of course it’s the Jags.  

 

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11 minutes ago, weepaws said:

Don’t know, all I said was he would be a good fit with Wentz with the Colts. 

I’ll let Henry and his agent and the Colts talk about his contract.  

And you said anyone that would pay him good money is foolish, unless of course it’s the Jags.  

 

The implication was paying him market value.  I still stand by that... even for the Jags.  Just that the Jags have the cap space where it wouldn't hurt them as much.

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If Henry can help the Colts take the next step, it won’t hurt them much either. 

He’s easily better then any of the te the Colts currently roster.  

 

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The Colts have done an excellent job of building a good young team. Without screwing up their payroll, and usually keeping their draft picks. 

If I was them, I'd stay the course. With the way this draft class has set up. They can draft a WR in round 1, and a TE in round 2. Of course they gotta hit those picks to keep the train moving. But the odds are in their favor. 

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I agree they need to draft a wr, but a te takes a little more time, they need to find a te like Henry to matchup with Wentz now, Wentz likes to use his te.  

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Word amongst 49ers media at least is that Colts may bid on All Pro LT Trent Brown.

Outlook for Wenzhou may keep improving.

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