Insurrection Hearings

[Cloaca du jour 2,149]

I was hoping to get answers myself.  What will satiate the rage and indignity they apparently suffered.  What will calm the storm that is wiffleball?  Who has to be put to death?

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

12 hours ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

dont care, you are falsely calling it an insurrection, so everything else is irrelevant 

I am all for anyone getting punished for anything they did illegal

 

Why is it falsely called an insurrection?  Wasn't that exactly what it was?

[Voltaire 5,316]

8 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why is it falsely called an insurrection?  Wasn't that exactly what it was?

Not even close but that's what the Dems and their allies in media call it.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

Not even close but that's what the Dems and their allies in media call it.

Why isn't it close?

[Utilit99 4,099]

13 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why is it falsely called an insurrection?  Wasn't that exactly what it was?

It was an.uninspired, unorganized, impromptu small group of people goimg into a government building to take selfies.

It wasn't some  organized violent uprising against any authority. 

If you want an example of innsurection, see the summer of 2020. 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Utilit99 said:

impromptu small group of people goimg into a government building to take selfies.

This is just a flat out lie

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why is it falsely called an insurrection?  Wasn't that exactly what it was?

For me insurrection is made of sterner stuff than a bunch of hooligans with animal headdresses being disordely and shouting unrealistic threats.  For me I would like to see more coordination, more planning than a paroxism of passions, misdirected.  I would need to see planning for taking and holding the riegns of power by the insurrectionists themselves, not their unrealistic hopes that the power would devolve to someone else.

 

I get it.  I watched it happen live and have watched the tapes.  I did hear some disturbing calls to violence.  I saw some violent behavior.  I also saw many walking through the capital even respecting the walkways defined by velvet ropes.  Basically I saw disorderly protesting and generally riotous behavior.  I saw interference with governmental operations.  I saw assualt, trespassing and some reckless endangerment. To me that is levels of degree less than insurrection for the mob as a whole.  I do allow that some ignoramuses in the mob may have been unrealistically hoping for more.  

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

This is the definition of an insurrection:  

an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

 

[Voltaire 5,316]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Why isn't it close?

Generally you don't attempt insurrections without guns or reinforcements or a plan or any sort of organization or encouragement and then just go home.

This is the word the Dems and the media use to smear the protestors. It does qualify as a "riot" though since there were some scuffles with police officers who were injured and minor damage to doors and windows occurred. 

[Utilit99 4,099]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

This is the definition of an insurrection:  

an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

 

Boy that was some revolt. 

Armed with cell phones.

How is this not 100000x less than the organized revolutuion of 2020?

[Reality 3,121]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

Generally you don't attempt insurrections without guns or reinforcements or a plan or any sort of organization or encouragement and then just go home.

This is the word the Dems and the media use to smear the protestors. It does qualify as a "riot" though since there were some scuffles with police officers who were injured and minor damage to doors and windows occurred. 

Do you think it's odd that you had to explain this to him?

[Utilit99 4,099]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

This is just a flat out lie

You have been played by your liberal leaders dude.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

This is the definition of an insurrection:  

an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

 

Historically that definition has not been read particualrly broadly or many protests and sit ins at governments buildings, police stations, and courthouses would have been treated that way.  My worry is if we read this broadly now what will be the ramifications in the future.  To me this behavior simply does not rise to a credible threat to the reigns of power.  I guess I need to see that.  If others do not I can understand that but they are inviting some future complications for future protests, protest which in the past have been a part of our political traditions.  

[Cloaca du jour 2,149]

4 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

This is the definition of an insurrection:  

an act or instance of revolting against civil authority or an established government

 

I do that when I roll a stop sign.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Reality said:

Do you think it's odd that you had to explain this to him?

It seems you all have your own definitions of what an insurrection.  By definition, it was an insurrection.

[Reality 3,121]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It seems you all have your own definitions of what an insurrection.  By definition, it was an insurrection.

Sure bud.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, Utilit99 said:

You have been played by your liberal leaders dude.

Not a liberal at all.  I saw enough evidence from numerous outlets and saw the list of laws that were broken that day.  There were weapons that people had.  There were firearms there as well.  There was plenty of damage caused.  The majority of people there looked to be there just for the fun of it but there were plenty there who seriously thought they were doing something that needed to be done.

Downplay and deny all you want, it won't change what actually happened.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

5 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

It seems you all have your own definitions of what an insurrection.  By definition, it was an insurrection.

But that genereal definition has been expounded upon and clarified by thousands of examples, in practice. I look at is "as applied" not in a vacuum.  Still, you are a thoughtful person so I do not try to disabuse you of your viewpoint or categorically state you are wrong, I just note tht for me the example does not rise to meet any reasonable definition, and I worry that inclusion of this matter into that categotry will rebound to have negative future consequences.

 

I think the bavior can be condemed and punished without esgtablishing a dangerously low baseline for the term.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Reality said:

Sure bud.

I didn't make up the definition.  Look it up yourself instead of being told what it is by conservatives.

I thought calling it an insurrection was overkill at first until I looked up what the actual definition was.  The word fits the event accurately.  Just because you think it sounds bad doesn't change that.

[Voltaire 5,316]

Just now, Reality said:

Do you think it's odd that you had to explain this to him?

No. He gets his new from MSM sources and so it frames his view of the world.

The MSM is nothing more than the establishment wing of the Democratic Party.

[Reality 3,121]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

No. He gets his new from MSM sources and so it frames his view of the world.

The MSM is nothing more than the establishment wing of the Democratic Party.

Good point. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

For me the event was not an insurrection though a few individuals in the event can be defined as insurrectionists, misguided and ineffectual ones, but insurrectionists.  I would say the riot of January 6th encompassed a few ineffectual insurrectionists as I believe some did indeed have that in their heats and minds, confusded minds, but minds nonetheless.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

But that genereal definition has been expounded upon and clarified by thousands of examples, in practice. I look at is 'as applied" not in a vacuum.  Still, you are a thoughtful person so I do not try to disabuse you of your viewpoint or categorically state you are wrong, I just note tht for me the example does not rise to meet any reasonable definition, and I worry taht inclusion of this matter into tht categotry will rebound to have negative future consequences.

 

I think the bavior can be condemed and punished without esgtablishing a dangerously low baseline for the term.

I think the left have gone overboard with what happened and I think the right down play it too much.  It was not as bad as what the left claim it to be but the right can't stop minimizing what happened either.  It was a pretty embarrassing moment for our country.  There were hundreds of crimes committed and in a government building.  There were weapons and firearms there.  People were hurt and a women died.  Calling it a selfie fest is just ignorant and ingenuous. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

Just now, Hawkeye21 said:

I think the left have gone overboard with what happened and I think the right down play it too much.  It was not as bad as what the left claim it to be but the right can't stop minimizing what happened either.  It was a pretty embarrassing moment for our country.  There were hundreds of crimes committed and in a government building.  There were weapons and firearms there.  People were hurt and a women died.  Calling it a selfie fest is just ignorant and ingenuous. 

Which is why I would never characterize it as such.  Never have, never will.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

3 minutes ago, Voltaire said:

No. He gets his new from MSM sources and so it frames his view of the world.

The MSM is nothing more than the establishment wing of the Democratic Party.

Everyone here should know I don't watch the news.  I think CNN and FoxNews are trash.  I'm not a liberal or conservative.  No one cares about that though, you have your minds made up and stick to your biases.

[Voltaire 5,316]

5 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I think the bavior can be condemed and punished without esgtablishing a dangerously low baseline for the term.

They're always changing the definition of words to whatever suits their purposes and slam it on their political enemies. We're use to it now.

For example: "woman" "nazi" "racist" "mostly peaceful" "insurrection"

 

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, Engorgeous George said:

Which is why I would never characterize it as such.  Never have, never will.

That's good, but you see it called that here every time that day is talked about.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, Voltaire said:

They're always changing the definition of words to whatever suits their purposes and slam it on their political enemies. We're use to it now.

For example: "woman" "nazi" "racist" "mostly peaceful" "insurrection"

 

Regardless of what anyone wants to believe, the word fit what happened.  Not sure why people feel the need to argue it.

[Voltaire 5,316]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That's good, but you see it called that here every time that day is talked about.

Yes. That's because the people talking about it and using that word all have a political agenda. But that doesn't make it true. It was just a protest that got out of hand. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

2 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

That's good, but you see it called that here every time that day is talked about.

I do indeed.  I find the term used as partisans hope to define the event to their future political advaqntage.  I also find partisans in the other direction minimizing for the same purpose.  Me, I define it for myself.

[Voltaire 5,316]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Regardless of what anyone wants to believe, the word fit what happened.  Not sure why people feel the need to argue it.

Because it does not fit and you're being deliberately duped.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

I call it a dangerous and criminal paroxism of stupidity, passion without reason.

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

Just now, Voltaire said:

Yes. That's because the people talking about it and using that word all have a political agenda. But that doesn't make it true. It was just a protest that got out of hand. 

The people who deny it also have a political agenda.  That argument doesn't fly.  The way I see it, conservatives feel that "insurrection" is a nasty sounding word and they don't want it to represent them so they downplay what happened.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

I appreciate the discussion Hawkeye.  

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Voltaire said:

Because it does not fit and you're being deliberately duped.

I'm not being deliberately duped because I'm not basing my opinions off of others, especially the media.  I formed my opinion on my own.  I watched the videos of what happened.  I saw they pictures.  I read the report of all the people arrested and what they've been charged with.  I looked up the definition of the word insurrection and determined on my own that what happened did technically meat the criteria to be called such.

Deny it all you want but it doesn't change the facts.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

The people who deny it also have a political agenda.  That argument doesn't fly.  The way I see it, conservatives feel that "insurrection" is a nasty sounding word and they don't want it to represent them so they downplay what happened.

When the progressives seek to obstruct government operations in Washington in general and the Supreme court in particular when the Supremes finally release theie official opinion on abortion i do not want to see those actions termed insurrection either, even if a portion of the protestors take matters to far.  

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

I appreciate the discussion Hawkeye.  

Same here.  I prefer rational discussion over the name calling back and forth that others do.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 minute ago, Hawkeye21 said:

I'm not being deliberately duped because I'm not basing my opinions off of others, especially the media.  I formed my opinion on my own.  I watched the videos of what happened.  I saw they pictures.  I read the report of all the people arrested and what they've been charged with.  I looked up the definition of the word insurrection and determined on my own that what happened did technically meat the criteria to be called such.

Deny it all you want but it doesn't change the facts.

I completely agee.  I do not agree that it fits the definition as historically applied and I worry that doing so expands the concept into realms it was never trulymeant to go.  Still, I join you in condeming the actions of more than a few that sad day in our history.  A day which will live in infamy as far as I am concerned.  Not as seizmic an event as some infamous acts, but truly historically noteworthy.

[listen2me 23 1,873]

7 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Regardless of what anyone wants to believe, the word fit what happened.  Not sure why people feel the need to argue it.

I am fine with calling it an insurrection.  Why don't they call anything else an insurrection?  

Was the storming of the Wisconsin Capitol an insurrection? Seems so by definition.    Why didn't anyone call it that?  Libs make the rules on what is and isn't?

[Hawkeye21 2,399]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

I completely agee.  I do not agree that it fits the definition as historically applied and I worry that doing so expands the concept into realms it was never trulymeant to go.  Still, I join you in condeming the actions of more than a few that sad day in our history.  A day which will live in infamy as far as I am concerned.  Not as seizmic an event as some infamous acts, but truly historically noteworthy.

Here is the biggest reason I ever comment on this topic, I get tired of it being downplayed by one side and made into something bigger by the other.  Why can't we just be truthful with what it really was?  Get over the political biases.