EV Vehicles - Will They Work Here

[Mike Honcho 4,089]

My co-worker got a new VW EV, has already driven it to Texas and back. Took longer, obviously, but she said didn't have a problem finding charging stations.  

[thegeneral 1,491]

1 hour ago, lod001 said:

Not gonna happen.

Oil companies get big tax incentives as it is a vital commodity. Why not this industry?

[listen2me 23 1,558]

17 hours ago, thegeneral said:

It is literally a two second process that part would not be an issue. 

Im not saying it is an issue.  Read.  I am just saying for me myself it is no faster than getting gas once a week.  Add in the fact that I have to remember to charge it.  Sometimes I forget to grab the mail.  So i could see myself forgetting here and there.  

[thegeneral 1,491]

49 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

My co-worker got a new VW EV, has already driven it to Texas and back. Took longer, obviously, but she said didn't have a problem finding charging stations.  

I have driven from Seattle to Idaho, Seattle to the Washington coast which is pretty undeveloped, to Portland, to Walla Walla, to Lake Chelan all trips were super easy with one stop on the way.

Did have to do a bit of extra looking at the coast just to double check what the car was telling me for piece of mind. 

[listen2me 23 1,558]

17 hours ago, League Champion said:

I have a 2500 Rocky Ridge, I run out of gas getting out of my driveway

ESPECIALLY if I'm towing. 

I drive 20 miles each way to work too.  Dependa if I go on any trips out of town extra.  But a full tank lasts me a week.  Usually have about a quarter left.  As golf season starts I drive a bit more getting to the golf course twice a week.  But still basically 1 fill up a week.  

[listen2me 23 1,558]

10 hours ago, thegeneral said:

It’s pretty much plugging in your phone.

Is way better than going to a gas station though and not giving a shet about gas prices is a nice bonus. 

My phones dies by accident sometimes.  

Agree on the gas prices.   Especially with Biden in there.  

[thegeneral 1,491]

Just now, listen2me 23 said:

My phones dies by accident sometimes.  

Agree on the gas prices.   Especially with Biden in there.  

How do you remember to get gas?

[listen2me 23 1,558]

2 hours ago, League Champion said:

Here's the reality with going EV. We can't even get potholes or roads fixed. How the hell can we expect them to revamp the entire power grid in this Country and who's paying for it? Another problem is the batteries. We are doing the World more harm with Lithium farming.& Disposal. Where exactly are we doing the World a favor? Another money grab that Liberals fall for, no questions asked. 

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-lithium-fields-reveal-the-dark-side-of-our-electric-future

I'm all for EV but there's a lot that needs to happen before we can go all in. 

Pretty much my stance.  As someone who lives rural they are obsolete to me right now.  I am not totally against them but they got a long way to go to be realistic to me.  

Also the environmental stuff.  We sure they are that much better overall?  

[listen2me 23 1,558]

Just now, thegeneral said:

How do you remember to get gas?

Thing pops up telling me I am low.  I stare at the gas gauge each moring for 20 miles.  

I'm not saying if I miss one charge overnight I am screwed.  But I would imagine I would forget a few times.  Like oh I got these groceries to carry ill come back and plug it in.  Then never do.  

[listen2me 23 1,558]

Also for any standard week of driving I fill up friday afternoon.  That is my routine.  Just sort of happens each week.  

[thegeneral 1,491]

4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Thing pops up telling me I am low.  I stare at the gas gauge each moring for 20 miles.  

I'm not saying if I miss one charge overnight I am screwed.  But I would imagine I would forget a few times.  Like oh I got these groceries to carry I’ll come back and plug it in.  Then never do.  

The ranges on current cars is in the hundreds of miles. Like ICE cars you just get into a routine, learn how to push it at times and just don’t think about it. I drive similar to you, about 15 miles to work each way then around town on occasion after work, lots of golf, and has never been an issue. It did take a bit of time to get used to it.

I assure you forgetting to plug it in would be well down the list of issues with having an EV. It wouldn’t even be an issue on most of your days if you did.

[Bert 1,101]

36 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Oil companies get big tax incentives as it is a vital commodity. Why not this industry?

You need to do your research.  This industry is getting massive tax incentives.

[thegeneral 1,491]

Just now, Bert said:

You need to do your research.  This industry is getting massive tax incentives.

Right that was what I was saying should continue to happen for things like incentivizing chargers in homes or new construction. The poster I was responding to said this would not happen.

[Bert 1,101]

2 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Right that was what I was saying should continue to happen for things like incentivizing chargers in homes or new construction. The poster I was responding to said this would not happen.

The tax incentives are there but it is going to be 20-30 plus years before most cars in the US are electric.  

[thegeneral 1,491]

1 minute ago, Bert said:

The tax incentives are there but it is going to be 20-30 plus years before most cars in the US are electric.  

We’ll see. I think 20 years might be ambitious. On new sales something like 80% perhaps. Prices need to come down and tech needs to continue to improve. 

[Strike 4,052]

37 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Pretty much my stance.  As someone who lives rural they are obsolete to me right now.  I am not totally against them but they got a long way to go to be realistic to me.  

Also the environmental stuff.  We sure they are that much better overall?  

They're not.  They start out at a carbon deficit relative to a gas vehicle and it takes a number of  years before they're even.  From that point they gain on the gas vehicle but if the EV doesn't last that long it doesn't make up that carbon deficit.  But the mining being done to get the Lithium needed for the batteries is doing it's own environmental harm, maybe not carbon related but devastating in it's own right.  But it lets the virtue signalers sleep better at night ignoring those issues.

[Mike Honcho 4,089]

1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

Pretty much my stance.  As someone who lives rural they are obsolete to me right now.  I am not totally against them but they got a long way to go to be realistic to me.  

Also the environmental stuff.  We sure they are that much better overall?  

Analysis: When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars?

Jarod Cory Kelly, principal energy systems analyst at Argonne, said making EVs generates more carbon than combustion engine cars, mainly due to the extraction and processing of minerals in EV batteries and production of the power cells.

But estimates as to how big that carbon gap is when a car is first sold and where the "break-even" point comes for EVs during their lifetime can vary widely, depending on the assumptions.

Kelly said the payback period then depends on factors such as the size of the EV's battery, the fuel economy of a gasoline car and how the power used to charge an EV is generated.

Reuters plugged a series of variables into the Argonne model, which had more than 43,000 users as of 2021, to come up with some answers.

The Tesla 3 scenario above was for driving in the United States, where 23% of electricity comes from coal-fired plants, with a 54 kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery and a cathode made of nickel, cobalt and aluminum, among other variables.

It was up against a gasoline-fueled Toyota Corolla weighing 2,955 pounds with a fuel efficiency of 33 miles per gallon. It was assumed both vehicles would travel 173,151 miles during their lifetimes.

But if the same Tesla was being driven in Norway, which generates almost all its electricity from renewable hydropower, the break-even point would come after just 8,400 miles.

If the electricity to recharge the EV comes entirely from coal, which generates the majority of the power in countries such as China and Poland, you would have to drive 78,700 miles to reach carbon parity with the Corolla, according to the Reuters analysis of data generated by Argonne's model.

[thegeneral 1,491]

10 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Analysis: When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars?

Jarod Cory Kelly, principal energy systems analyst at Argonne, said making EVs generates more carbon than combustion engine cars, mainly due to the extraction and processing of minerals in EV batteries and production of the power cells.

But estimates as to how big that carbon gap is when a car is first sold and where the "break-even" point comes for EVs during their lifetime can vary widely, depending on the assumptions.

Kelly said the payback period then depends on factors such as the size of the EV's battery, the fuel economy of a gasoline car and how the power used to charge an EV is generated.

Reuters plugged a series of variables into the Argonne model, which had more than 43,000 users as of 2021, to come up with some answers.

The Tesla 3 scenario above was for driving in the United States, where 23% of electricity comes from coal-fired plants, with a 54 kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery and a cathode made of nickel, cobalt and aluminum, among other variables.

It was up against a gasoline-fueled Toyota Corolla weighing 2,955 pounds with a fuel efficiency of 33 miles per gallon. It was assumed both vehicles would travel 173,151 miles during their lifetimes.

But if the same Tesla was being driven in Norway, which generates almost all its electricity from renewable hydropower, the break-even point would come after just 8,400 miles.

If the electricity to recharge the EV comes entirely from coal, which generates the majority of the power in countries such as China and Poland, you would have to drive 78,700 miles to reach carbon parity with the Corolla, according to the Reuters analysis of data generated by Argonne's model.

Yep. There isn’t a good way to measure as there are so many factors. Being committed long term will certainly be better.

It goes without saying getting off carbon fuels as much as possible would be much better.   

[listen2me 23 1,558]

21 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Analysis: When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars?

Jarod Cory Kelly, principal energy systems analyst at Argonne, said making EVs generates more carbon than combustion engine cars, mainly due to the extraction and processing of minerals in EV batteries and production of the power cells.

But estimates as to how big that carbon gap is when a car is first sold and where the "break-even" point comes for EVs during their lifetime can vary widely, depending on the assumptions.

Kelly said the payback period then depends on factors such as the size of the EV's battery, the fuel economy of a gasoline car and how the power used to charge an EV is generated.

Reuters plugged a series of variables into the Argonne model, which had more than 43,000 users as of 2021, to come up with some answers.

The Tesla 3 scenario above was for driving in the United States, where 23% of electricity comes from coal-fired plants, with a 54 kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery and a cathode made of nickel, cobalt and aluminum, among other variables.

It was up against a gasoline-fueled Toyota Corolla weighing 2,955 pounds with a fuel efficiency of 33 miles per gallon. It was assumed both vehicles would travel 173,151 miles during their lifetimes.

But if the same Tesla was being driven in Norway, which generates almost all its electricity from renewable hydropower, the break-even point would come after just 8,400 miles.

If the electricity to recharge the EV comes entirely from coal, which generates the majority of the power in countries such as China and Poland, you would have to drive 78,700 miles to reach carbon parity with the Corolla, according to the Reuters analysis of data generated by Argonne's model.

Thanks appreciate the read.

[Bert 1,101]

49 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

Analysis: When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars?

Jarod Cory Kelly, principal energy systems analyst at Argonne, said making EVs generates more carbon than combustion engine cars, mainly due to the extraction and processing of minerals in EV batteries and production of the power cells.

But estimates as to how big that carbon gap is when a car is first sold and where the "break-even" point comes for EVs during their lifetime can vary widely, depending on the assumptions.

Kelly said the payback period then depends on factors such as the size of the EV's battery, the fuel economy of a gasoline car and how the power used to charge an EV is generated.

Reuters plugged a series of variables into the Argonne model, which had more than 43,000 users as of 2021, to come up with some answers.

The Tesla 3 scenario above was for driving in the United States, where 23% of electricity comes from coal-fired plants, with a 54 kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery and a cathode made of nickel, cobalt and aluminum, among other variables.

It was up against a gasoline-fueled Toyota Corolla weighing 2,955 pounds with a fuel efficiency of 33 miles per gallon. It was assumed both vehicles would travel 173,151 miles during their lifetimes.

But if the same Tesla was being driven in Norway, which generates almost all its electricity from renewable hydropower, the break-even point would come after just 8,400 miles.

If the electricity to recharge the EV comes entirely from coal, which generates the majority of the power in countries such as China and Poland, you would have to drive 78,700 miles to reach carbon parity with the Corolla, according to the Reuters analysis of data generated by Argonne's model.

This is also a huge issue with home solar panels.  Most of them are made in china in factories using coal fired electricity and shipped on container ships burning hi pollutant fuel.  So there is little or no net benefit to the environment.

[Mike Honcho 4,089]

3 minutes ago, Bert said:

This is also a huge issue with home solar panels.  Most of them are made in china in factories using coal fired electricity and shipped on container ships burning hi pollutant fuel.  So there is little or no net benefit to the environment.

 

Quote

 

Solar Energy Carbon Footprint

Around 50g of CO2 per kilowatt-hour is produced during the first years of operating a solar energy system. The solar panel’s carbon footprint is roughly 20 times less than the carbon output of coal-powered electricity sources. As a result, your carbon footprint will decrease as soon as you install solar power in your home.

However, you’ll need to have solar panels in operation for three years to become carbon neutral, paying off their carbon debt. Then, after three years of use, your overall carbon footprint will reduce further, as the system will remain carbon neutral for the rest of its lifespan.

In general, solar panels last over 20 years, keeping a significant amount of carbon out of the atmosphere.

 

 

[Bert 1,101]

9 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

 

 

Does Michigan still get most of its electricity from coal fired power plants?

ETA: Texas gets 80% of its power from Nat Gas, Wind, Nuclear and Solar less than 20% comes from coal. 

[seafoam1 1,881]

Dang. Why are liberals so stupid?

[thegeneral 1,491]

2 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Dang. Why are liberals so stupid?

Taking advantage of programs to fuel a car for free and get a rebate on its cost. So dumb !

[Mike Honcho 4,089]

5 minutes ago, Bert said:

Does Michigan still get most of its electricity from coal fired power plants?

 

Quote

 

What fuels Michigan’s electricity?

Michigan is the 10th largest carbon dioxide emitter in the country, with 152- million metric tons of CO2 emitted in 2017. That is in part because the largest percentage of Michigan electricity is generated by coal–but that ‘s changing.

In 2001, 62% of Michigan’s electricity was produced by coal, in 2012 it was 53%, and as of 2019, only 33% of Michigan’s electricity was generated from coal. 

 

Any other faulty assumptions you need me to correct for you today?

[seafoam1 1,881]

7 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Taking advantage of programs to fuel a car for free and get a rebate on its cost. So dumb !

Yeah. No cost. It's all free.

Focking liberals...

[Bert 1,101]

3 minutes ago, Mike Honcho said:

 

Any other faulty assumptions you need me to correct for you today?

Damn I had no idea Michigan was so far behind.  Why are  y'all so far behind?

[Mike Honcho 4,089]

4 minutes ago, Bert said:

Damn I had no idea Michigan was so far behind.  Why are  y'all so far behind?

Always great to chat with you Bert. 

[thegeneral 1,491]

7 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Yeah. No cost. It's all free.

Focking liberals...

Do you have a mortgage or had one, do you eat food grown by someone else, do you work for a company, will you plan on using Medicare, on and on those are all subsidized dumbass…this is what we do as a society to improve the quality of lives in the country. 

 

[edjr 5,633]

I am going to get an electric boat so it can pull my electric car down to the dock. 

[Bert 1,101]

Just now, Mike Honcho said:

Always great to chat with you Bert. 

It is a serious question.   Texas, that is full of a bunch of environmental change deniers, is only using 18% coal and leads the nation in wind power generation. 

[League Champion 1,593]

5 hours ago, League Champion said:

Where exactly are we doing the World a favor? Another money grab that Liberals fall for, no questions asked. 

https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/02/01/south-america-s-lithium-fields-reveal-the-dark-side-of-our-electric-future

Anyone? 

[DonS 3,084]

For those of you with EVs... 

I've always wondered - and am too lazy to Google - how the various charging stations in parking lots work in terms of compatibility among different car manufacturers and cost.  Is there a standard plug that all manufactures have adopted? 

Thanks

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

2 hours ago, Mike Honcho said:

Analysis: When do electric vehicles become cleaner than gasoline cars?

Jarod Cory Kelly, principal energy systems analyst at Argonne, said making EVs generates more carbon than combustion engine cars, mainly due to the extraction and processing of minerals in EV batteries and production of the power cells.

But estimates as to how big that carbon gap is when a car is first sold and where the "break-even" point comes for EVs during their lifetime can vary widely, depending on the assumptions.

Kelly said the payback period then depends on factors such as the size of the EV's battery, the fuel economy of a gasoline car and how the power used to charge an EV is generated.

Reuters plugged a series of variables into the Argonne model, which had more than 43,000 users as of 2021, to come up with some answers.

The Tesla 3 scenario above was for driving in the United States, where 23% of electricity comes from coal-fired plants, with a 54 kilowatt-hour (kWh) battery and a cathode made of nickel, cobalt and aluminum, among other variables.

It was up against a gasoline-fueled Toyota Corolla weighing 2,955 pounds with a fuel efficiency of 33 miles per gallon. It was assumed both vehicles would travel 173,151 miles during their lifetimes.

But if the same Tesla was being driven in Norway, which generates almost all its electricity from renewable hydropower, the break-even point would come after just 8,400 miles.

If the electricity to recharge the EV comes entirely from coal, which generates the majority of the power in countries such as China and Poland, you would have to drive 78,700 miles to reach carbon parity with the Corolla, according to the Reuters analysis of data generated by Argonne's model.

 

1 hour ago, Mike Honcho said:

Solar Energy Carbon Footprint

Around 50g of CO2 per kilowatt-hour is produced during the first years of operating a solar energy system. The solar panel’s carbon footprint is roughly 20 times less than the carbon output of coal-powered electricity sources. As a result, your carbon footprint will decrease as soon as you install solar power in your home.

However, you’ll need to have solar panels in operation for three years to become carbon neutral, paying off their carbon debt. Then, after three years of use, your overall carbon footprint will reduce further, as the system will remain carbon neutral for the rest of its lifespan.

In general, solar panels last over 20 years, keeping a significant amount of carbon out of the atmosphere.

 

Appreciate the info, but lets be honest... in both instances, the data is being created (or analyzed from), the people who are trying to sell you the product.  It's like having someone who works for Chevy telling you why Chevy's are the best product.  

[League Champion 1,593]

10 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

 

Appreciate the info, but lets be honest... in both instances, the data is being created (or analyzed from), the people who are trying to sell you the product.  It's like having someone who works for Chevy telling you why Chevy's are the best product.  

And our power grids are already maxed out, they are ancient. Nobody wants to discuss the hazards of Lithium, whether it's disposal or mining 

[thegeneral 1,491]

33 minutes ago, DonS said:

For those of you with EVs... 

I've always wondered - and am too lazy to Google - how the various charging stations in parking lots work in terms of compatibility among different car manufacturers and cost.  Is there a standard plug that all manufactures have adopted? 

Thanks

There are different types of plugs but the ones I have driven have adaptors that you attach that allow them to be interchangeable. For instance Tesla plug in is its own thing but when charging at a non Tesla place like ChargePoint which you see everywhere you click this thing on to the hose and that plugs into the car. 

I believe Tesla just agreed to allow their chargers to be opened up to non-Teslas. Not sure how that works.

[DonS 3,084]

11 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

There are different types of plugs but the ones I have driven have adaptors that you attach that allow them to be interchangeable. For instance Tesla plug in is its own thing but when charging at a non Tesla place like ChargePoint which you see everywhere you click this thing on to the hose and that plugs into the car. 

I believe Tesla just agreed to allow their chargers to be opened up to non-Teslas. Not sure how that works.

Gotcha.   How about the charging costs? 

[TBayXXXVII 2,154]

18 minutes ago, League Champion said:

And our power grids are already maxed out, they are ancient. Nobody wants to discuss the hazards of Lithium, whether it's disposal or mining 

Probably because the liberals special interest groups are heavily into Lithium mining.

[thegeneral 1,491]

16 minutes ago, DonS said:

Gotcha.   How about the charging costs? 

So that is a little trickier and depends on situation. Seattle is about .10 / kWh. Supercharger last time I used it was about .40 / kWh IIRC

I charge as much as possible at office that supplies free charging as a perk to get our asses in the seats

I very rarely use any of the pay chargers for this reason if charging fully at home in my case it would be about 40 bucks I think per month. I was filling up about twice a month under same conditions with my previous gas car. 

 

[DonS 3,084]

16 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

So that is a little trickier and depends on situation. Seattle is about .10 / kWh. Supercharger last time I used it was about .40 / kWh IIRC

I charge as much as possible at office that supplies free charging as a perk to get our asses in the seats

I very rarely use any of the pay chargers for this reason if charging fully at home in my case it would be about 40 bucks I think per month. I was filling up about twice a month under same conditions with my previous gas car. 

 

Thanks for the breakdown as that really helps my understanding in terms of costs.  All the talk regarding EVs never seem to clearly illustrate what you end up paying to recharge. 

Edit: for your trip to/from Idaho what would you estimate the overall charging costs were?