Arizona is tanking this year for sure

[jrokh 580]

yeah. Zona's plan was to trade for a competent QB and then put up a 28-7 2nd half lead, and then "let" the opponent put up 24 unanswered as part of their master tanking plan. Brilliant!

[kilroy69 1,074]

7 minutes ago, jrokh said:

yeah. Zona's plan was to trade for a competent QB and then put up a 28-7 2nd half lead, and then "let" the opponent put up 24 unanswered as part of their master tanking plan. Brilliant!

They went up 28 to 7 then started playing prevent. I mean......that seems pretty simple to see to me. 

[jrokh 580]

7 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

They went up 28 to 7 then started playing prevent. I mean......that seems pretty simple to see to me. 

Playing prevent isn't the same thing as tanking. Otherwise every team in the NFL is tanking when they have a big lead. Your original premise is simply dumb...

[kilroy69 1,074]

13 hours ago, jrokh said:

Playing prevent isn't the same thing as tanking. Otherwise every team in the NFL is tanking when they have a big lead. Your original premise is simply dumb...

hahaha funny. Going 0-17 is not going to happen on accident. 

[RoadLizard 73]

Why does Arizona even bother? What a horrible franchise.  Just fold up, sell the team or something. Players don’t even want to be there. Any competent rookie QB would be wise to pull an Eli or an Elway and make SURE they dont end up there.  

[seafoam1 2,126]

3 hours ago, RoadLizard said:

Why does Arizona even bother? What a horrible franchise.  Just fold up, sell the team or something. Players don’t even want to be there. Any competent rookie QB would be wise to pull an Eli or an Elway and make SURE they dont end up there.  

Or you can make $230M with $30M guaranteed in Arizona and take the year off. 

[show me the murray 49]

Speaking as an Arizona fan, that’s not a tanking team. They’ve played hard two weeks and should be 2-0. First week fell apart because the offense wasn’t ready (Dobbs had only had a few practices), this week he looked way better and the defense played hard but they are lacking talent and missed their best defensive player. The offensive play calling got way too conservative, and the defense was gassed. They’re undermanned, it happens. But Jonathan Gannon and his young co-ordinators have 100% changed the culture. Might not get much better this year but with 12 picks next year the future looks bright. 

Not to forget, there are some young pieces to build around with rookie draft picks paying off already. Paris Johnson Jr is a stud (O-line kept Dobbs completely clean yesterday, 0 sacks), Wilson the WR looks good for a 3rd rounder and Kei’trel Clark the 6th round CB had a brilliant game. 

[Ray_T 628]

27 minutes ago, show me the murray said:

Speaking as an Arizona fan, that’s not a tanking team. They’ve played hard two weeks and should be 2-0. First week fell apart because the offense wasn’t ready (Dobbs had only had a few practices), this week he looked way better and the defense played hard but they are lacking talent and missed their best defensive player. The offensive play calling got way too conservative, and the defense was gassed. They’re undermanned, it happens. But Jonathan Gannon and his young co-ordinators have 100% changed the culture. Might not get much better this year but with 12 picks next year the future looks bright. 

Not to forget, there are some young pieces to build around with rookie draft picks paying off already. Paris Johnson Jr is a stud (O-line kept Dobbs completely clean yesterday, 0 sacks), Wilson the WR looks good for a 3rd rounder and Kei’trel Clark the 6th round CB had a brilliant game. 

honestly I dont know how they managed to lose this last one.   i had to tune out as the kids demanded attention for some stuff, but the first half they looked like they couldnt lose.  Not sure totally what happened there

 

[kilroy69 1,074]

4 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

honestly I dont know how they managed to lose this last one.   i had to tune out as the kids demanded attention for some stuff, but the first half they looked like they couldnt lose.  Not sure totally what happened there

 

Welllllll.....when you do not WANT to win a game so you can have one of the top 5 picks you make adjustments at halftime like a winning team would do....except to lose 

[Ray_T 628]

Just now, kilroy69 said:

Welllllll.....when you do not WANT to win a game so you can have one of the top 5 picks you make adjustments at halftime like a winning team would do....except to lose 

well, when tanking you dont want to bring the losing attitude to the dressing room.  you tank by putting bad personell on the field.  you dont tell players to throw in the towel.  sets a bad precedent and then you end up with a bunch of guys with no character or who dont want to be there.   tougher to turn that around than if you just have a bad team.

I also am not buying that they are tanking.   I think they deserved a better fate this week.  maybe the mistake was going prevent too early.   the D was looking actually good in the first half.  they just shouldnt have taken their foot off the gas.   thats just inexperience.

[kilroy69 1,074]

3 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

well, when tanking you dont want to bring the losing attitude to the dressing room.  you tank by putting bad personell on the field.  you dont tell players to throw in the towel.  sets a bad precedent and then you end up with a bunch of guys with no character or who dont want to be there.   tougher to turn that around than if you just have a bad team.

I also am not buying that they are tanking.   I think they deserved a better fate this week.  maybe the mistake was going prevent too early.   the D was looking actually good in the first half.  they just shouldnt have taken their foot off the gas.   thats just inexperience.

We have different views on what we saw. I saw a team that mistakenly took a lead they never thought they were going to have and then had to find out a way in which to lose but still put up the appearance they TRIED to win. It is not in their best interest to win at all this year as an organization. 

[jrokh 580]

If the Cardinals truly wanted to lose they would be playing Clayton Tune at QB, with the excuse they want to develop him. Instead, they traded for Josh Dobbs, a competent QB, and were in position to win their first 2 games. That is not a team trying to lose. There is a difference between a bad team and a tanking team, a distinction clearly lost on the cerebrally challenged...

[kilroy69 1,074]

4 minutes ago, jrokh said:

If the Cardinals truly wanted to lose they would be playing Clayton Tune at QB, with the excuse they want to develop him. Instead, they traded for Josh Dobbs, a competent QB, and were in position to win their first 2 games. That is not a team trying to lose. There is a difference between a bad team and a tanking team, a distinction clearly lost on the cerebrally challenged...

"0-17. Lets do it boys" is the rumored motto of the Cards this year. 

[jrokh 580]

15 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

"0-17. Lets do it boys" is the rumored motto of the Cards this year. 

21 minutes ago, jrokh said:

There is a difference between a bad team and a tanking team, a distinction clearly lost on the cerebrally challenged...

 

[seafoam1 2,126]

27 minutes ago, jrokh said:

 

The Bears tanked last year and they were bad. The management, who is mostly responsible for the actual tanking dumped salary on overpriced players by cutting them or trading them away. That makes your team worse and also makes you lose more games. The Bears this year didn't intend to tank, but are bad so who knows how they handle it if they lose the next 5 games. 

[Ray_T 628]

well, it sometimes happens that you start out wanting to win and through a comedy of errors, bad mistakes and injuries you end up in a position where you can get a top draft pick.   at that point it becomes easy to tank.  players who are questionable become doubtful or miss games entirely, and rookies get lots of playing time.

there are ways to tank.  I'm not seeing that here (not yet anyways) but I'm sure if they get to a point where they are 0-6 or 1-7 this situation may change.

[seafoam1 2,126]

15 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

well, it sometimes happens that you start out wanting to win and through a comedy of errors, bad mistakes and injuries you end up in a position where you can get a top draft pick.   at that point it becomes easy to tank.  players who are questionable become doubtful or miss games entirely, and rookies get lots of playing time.

there are ways to tank.  I'm not seeing that here (not yet anyways) but I'm sure if they get to a point where they are 0-6 or 1-7 this situation may change.

Yeah. If a new QB is the desire, then tanking becomes more desirous. It will be interesting to see the Bears play both Carolina and Arizona. They have Carolinas #1 so hopefully they tie and Arizona beats them. 0-16-1. 

[Ray_T 628]

33 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

Yeah. If a new QB is the desire, then tanking becomes more desirous. It will be interesting to see the Bears play both Carolina and Arizona. They have Carolinas #1 so hopefully they tie and Arizona beats them. 0-16-1. 

Well, Carolina has their QB of the future.

I think they want the kid to learn how to win.   this is a situation where you dont tank.  you let the kids learn and grow and you get what you get.

but you want that culture in the room where everyone does their best.   Thats the most important thing when you have a young core on your team.

[seafoam1 2,126]

13 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

Well, Carolina has their QB of the future.

I think they want the kid to learn how to win.   this is a situation where you dont tank.  you let the kids learn and grow and you get what you get.

but you want that culture in the room where everyone does their best.   Thats the most important thing when you have a young core on your team.

No. Carolina is not tanking at all. I haven't seen  a game of theois yet this year. 

[show me the murray 49]

5 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

No. Carolina is not tanking at all. I haven't seen  a game of theois yet this year. 

Well it would be pretty pointless to tank when you don’t have a first round pick. 

[seafoam1 2,126]

1 minute ago, show me the murray said:

Well it would be pretty pointless to tank when you don’t have a first round pick. 

 I thought of that after I posted. 

[kcBlitzkrieg 20]

On 9/7/2023 at 11:46 AM, GobbleDog said:

I'd be surprised if Murray doesn't play, who should be ready around Week 6 or 7. If he gets injured he'll have a year to heal for '24. The Cards are in real danger of going winless - killing ticket sales, merchandise and potentially losing fans for long term - especially young demographic. They need their star on the field and they are paying him a ton of money.

At this point it's up in the air if Murray is even their qb of the future despite the contract. So Cards need to know what Murray still brings to the table and if drafting a Qb early next year is the right move. I bet he plays.

This is the Bidwell fam now…not Jerrah or Bobby K…. Since when have the Cards cared about such things as fanbase and ticket sales huh??  The profits due to cba annd structure of league are gonna come in regardless…. Some of you need to stop thinking like fanboys and more like the billionaire corporate f*KC’s that run this league.  Peace.  

[jrokh 580]

On 9/18/2023 at 10:44 AM, kilroy69 said:

"0-17. Lets do it boys" is the rumored motto of the Cards this year. 

Try again...

[justforbeer 39]

On 8/31/2023 at 7:54 AM, kilroy69 said:

It makes any defense playing them an almost lock to put up huge points. I am going to try to stream against them all year. Anyone else on this train?

Well, I have to say, I am even surprised, but that’s the Cowboys for you!

[seafoam1 2,126]

Guess they aren't tanking. 

[kilroy69 1,074]

They looked good for ONE game. They are still tanking. 

[jrokh 580]

1 hour ago, kilroy69 said:

They looked good for ONE game. They are still tanking. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kilroy69 1,074]

1-4. They looked good against a Dallas team that may be the most over rated team in the NFL right now. Still soft tanking for a spot in the top. I am not hating on them. I think it is a legit strategy if you have no chance of winning. The fact Murry still is not out there makes me believe they are still going to lose almost every game. They are doing what they need to do. Be entertaining and find pieces to build with. 

[jrokh 580]

4 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

1-4. They looked good against a Dallas team that may be the most over rated team in the NFL right now. Still soft tanking for a spot in the top. I am not hating on them. I think it is a legit strategy if you have no chance of winning. The fact Murry still is not out there makes me believe they are still going to lose almost every game. They are doing what they need to do. Be entertaining and find pieces to build with. 

You are conflating being a bad team with tanking. They are not the same thing. Are the panthers tanking? They are worse than Arizona. Stop doubling down on stupid...

[kilroy69 1,074]

2 minutes ago, jrokh said:

You are conflating being a bad team with tanking. They are not the same thing. Are the panthers tanking? They are worse than Arizona. Stop doubling down on stupid...

It can still be tanking without looking like tanking outright. Maybe you should stop doubling down on being wrong. It is ok to admit when you are wrong. All grown up people have to once in a while. You will learn eventually. Probably after you hit puberty and your brain is more developed. 

[jrokh 580]

23 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

It can still be tanking without looking like tanking outright. Maybe you should stop doubling down on being wrong. It is ok to admit when you are wrong. All grown up people have to once in a while. You will learn eventually. Probably after you hit puberty and your brain is more developed. 

So every team with a bad record is tanking. The Panthers/Giants/Bears/Cardinals/Pats/Vikings/Broncos are all tanking. Brilliant take!

[kilroy69 1,074]

12 minutes ago, jrokh said:

So every team with a bad record is tanking. The Panthers/Giants/Bears/Cardinals/Pats/Vikings/Broncos are all tanking. Brilliant take!

Some of them may be for sure.  How hard is it to believe that in a world where you can control a QB for 5 years on a rookie contract that teams would soft tank in order to get into the top of a QB heavy draft class? One that could result in multiple franchise QBs. For the price of one years contract for Daniel Jones you get 5 years of a rookie.  You play to win the game but what if your game is the long game on a rebuild? Arizona came into the season with no hopes. Released Mccoy and flirted with starting their rookie. Have not put Murry back on the field and have done JUST enough to make it look entertaining. There IS a precedent for this. the Browns did it under Hugh Jackson.  It did not work out for them because of the way they draft and the fact they are the browns but there is a template for this. 

[seafoam1 2,126]

9 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

Some of them may be for sure.  How hard is it to believe that in a world where you can control a QB for 5 years on a rookie contract that teams would soft tank in order to get into the top of a QB heavy draft class? One that could result in multiple franchise QBs. For the price of one years contract for Daniel Jones you get 5 years of a rookie.  You play to win the game but what if your game is the long game on a rebuild? Arizona came into the season with no hopes. Released Mccoy and flirted with starting their rookie. Have not put Murry back on the field and have done JUST enough to make it look entertaining. There IS a precedent for this. the Browns did it under Hugh Jackson.  It did not work out for them because of the way they draft and the fact they are the browns but there is a template for this. 

Teams tear down to get ready to build up. That's a form of tanking. Bears did it last year. People use the tanking word because the teams want to start over and you can't ask the players to not play hard so you sell off your big name players to get the most draft capital out of it and it just so happens that when you tear down your team is more likely to lose. So the word tanking isn't that all the players lose on purpose, it's the coaching and management that trigger the tanking. And I have no issues when they do that. 

From a fantasy perspective In my superflex dynasty league, I lost Watson to suspension for a long time and no chance I could win with only one QB at the time. So I sold off my skilled older quality players (the likes of Keenan Allen, etc) to those who were in competition for the playoffs for first and second round rookie draft picks. Got me players like Breece Hall, Anthony Richardson, Zay Flowers, Sam LaPorta and some other guys I'm forgetting at the moment.  That's not that too far fetched of a comparison to the NFL. If you know you are 3 years away from competing for a championship and you have a $20M dollar stud DE on your roster under contract for 2 more years, what's the point of keeping him instead of getting a first round pick for him?

[kilroy69 1,074]

29 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

So the word tanking isn't that all the players lose on purpose, it's the coaching and management that trigger the tanking. And I have no issues when they do that. 

 

This is what I am talking about. I do not think the players are throwing games by any means. They are doing their best with what they have . But what they have is not a lot in order NOT to win but still look entertaining. 

[jrokh 580]

1 hour ago, kilroy69 said:

This is what I am talking about. I do not think the players are throwing games by any means. They are doing their best with what they have . But what they have is not a lot in order NOT to win but still look entertaining. 

If that were true, the Cardinals would NOT have traded for Josh Dobbs, and Would have rolled out Clayton Tune instead. Your premise is simply wrong.

[kilroy69 1,074]

1 hour ago, jrokh said:

If that were true, the Cardinals would NOT have traded for Josh Dobbs, and Would have rolled out Clayton Tune instead. Your premise is simply wrong.

So you think it would be more entertaining to see Clayton Tune? If anything my premise is even MORE right. They traded for a QB that can keep it entertaining but still lose. That seems like a soft tank to me. You just can not wrap your mind around the idea of tanking for a better pick while keeping it interesting enough to watch. 

[jrokh 580]

7 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

So you think it would be more entertaining to see Clayton Tune? If anything my premise is even MORE right. They traded for a QB that can keep it entertaining but still lose. That seems like a soft tank to me. You just can not wrap your mind around the idea of tanking for a better pick while keeping it interesting enough to watch. 

Your response is pure buffoonery, and displays a completely clueless knot of how NFL teams operate 

[kilroy69 1,074]

4 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Your response is pure buffoonery, and displays a completely clueless knot of how NFL teams operate 

It is super hard to take critique with a straight face from someone who does not know the difference between not and knot.  But carry on felling better than me. I am sure the echo chamber in that tiny brain just has tons of more things to ramble on about. 

 

Hey there. Did you know that we are sliding into winter in Michigan? Well now ya do. 

[jrokh 580]

3 minutes ago, kilroy69 said:

It is super hard to take critique with a straight face from someone who does not know the difference between not and knot.  But carry on felling better than me. 

Criticizing auto correct is the surest sign of desperation and defeat. So now I do feel better… Thanks!

[kilroy69 1,074]

7 minutes ago, jrokh said:

Criticizing auto correct is the surest sign of desperation and defeat. So now I do feel better… Thanks!

Sure Jethro. Everything else was correct. Just...Knot that. hahahaha