JFK

[Cruzer 1,995]

13 minutes ago, BeenHereBefore said:

Jackie and Nellie was probably in fear for their own lives and children's afterwards. Jackie also tried to climb out of the car right after the fatal shot.

All true… But we’re not taking about whether or not they heard a phone ring, someone shout “we love you”, or a fart - we’re taking about a gunshot from point blank range. Doesn’t matter how scared you are - you’re gonna head that. Especially when there’s 2 of them in the car -  no way both of them didn’t hear it… I’d also expect to see a muzzle flash, puff of smoke, neither of those exist in the Zapruder film.  

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

1 minute ago, Cruzer said:

All true… But we’re not taking about whether or not they heard a phone ring, someone shout “we love you”, or a fart - we’re taking about a gunshot from point blank range. Doesn’t matter how scared you are - you’re gonna head that. Especially when there’s 2 of them in the car -  no way both of them didn’t hear it… I’d also expect to see a muzzle flash, puff of smoke, neither of those exist in the Zapruder film.  

My point is they are going to remain silent in fear for their lives and families.

[Cruzer 1,995]

6 minutes ago, BeenHereBefore said:

My point is they are going to remain silent in fear for their lives and families.

The story seems to keep evolving to fit the narrative. First it was they didn’t hear the shot out of hysteria, now it’s they did hear it but kept silent out of fear… Did the driver also shoot the bullet hole in the windshield, that came from outside the car and in? 

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

5 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

The story seems to keep evolving to fit the narrative. First it was they didn’t hear the shot out of hysteria, now it’s they did hear it but kept silent out of fear… Did the driver also shoot the bullet hole in the windshield, that came from outside the car and in? 

I don't believe  whatever Jackie said after the assassination was made public and don't believe also that she was questioned in the WC. So whatever she said remains a mystery. Driver fired the fatal shot. There was other shots fired elsewhere before that like the one that hit Kennedy in the back.

[Cruzer 1,995]

4 minutes ago, BeenHereBefore said:

I don't believe  whatever Jackie said after the assassination was made public and don't believe also that she was questioned in the WC. So whatever she said remains a mystery. Driver fired the fatal shot. There was other shots fired elsewhere before that like the one that hit Kennedy in the back.

Going back to the shot. You claim you see the driver turn and point a gun (I contend Connolly’s head is what we actually see), yet you never see a muzzle flash or puffs of smoke… That makes no sense at all - the driver never fired a shot. 

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

Just now, Cruzer said:

Going back to the shot. You claim you see the driver turn and point a gun (I contend Connolly’s head is what we actually see), yet you never see a muzzle flash or puffs of smoke… That makes no sense at all - the driver never fired a shot. 

That is what ones said to try to discredit the theory, I can even see the gun recoil after the fatal blow, you can see the sun reflect off of it as well when he tries to put it away. Anyways me and you think different and aren't you the one that believes Jon Benet wasn't a inside job ? We will just have to disagree.

[Cruzer 1,995]

I am the one who believes JB was an inside job. You're one of the one's who believes in the foreign faction/intruder theory? 

As far ss the shot, there must be 2 different Zapruder films - because I see no such thing. Nor has apparently anyone else bcoz if they had it would have been blown up and plastered all over the net just like the actual Zapruder film itself..... Yes, we will have to disagree. 

[wiffleball 4,788]

Pretty compelling story; 

 

In the midst of everything that day, Jackie took off her wedding ring. 

 

...and then swapped her ring for JFKs wedding band. 

 

So they'd be together forever. 

 

Never before heard that story. 

 

 

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

1 hour ago, Cruzer said:

I am the one who believes JB was an inside job. You're one of the one's who believes in the foreign faction/intruder theory? 

As far ss the shot, there must be 2 different Zapruder films - because I see no such thing. Nor has apparently anyone else bcoz if they had it would have been blown up and plastered all over the net just like the actual Zapruder film itself..... Yes, we will have to disagree. 

No so we agree on JB, as for the driver in the J.F.K. I see what I see and you see what you see and will let it go at that. I heard there is another film that the FBI has from the other side of the street that shows the driver shooting him even better but I can't prove that. There is definitely photos taken from the other side.

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

3 hours ago, Mookz said:

What do you make of the video I poasted in the other thread that acknowledges a grassy knoll shooter, but claims that the kill shot came from the sewer drain just a few feet from where the car slowed down? 

I heard this theory in the later 90's and not sure I believe it but wouldn't roll it out either. I don't think there is much evidence supporting it though. As someone that shot guns that would be kinda a tough angle and quick shot but not impossible.

[Cruzer 1,995]

42 minutes ago, BeenHereBefore said:

No so we agree on JB, as for the driver in the J.F.K. I see what I see and you see what you see and will let it go at that. I heard there is another film that the FBI has from the other side of the street that shows the driver shooting him even better but I can't prove that. There is definitely photos taken from the other side.

We also agree that the LHO theory is hogwash...... On the photos, w/out some kind of production, they're just rumor mill... I've no personal vandetta against the driver or anyone else - I'd love to see anything tangible to convince me, I just don't see it......... I hope we get an absolute answer before I croak, but I fear that won't happen. 

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

13 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

We also agree that the LHO theory is hogwash...... On the photos, w/out some kind of production, they're just rumor mill... I've no personal vandetta against the driver or anyone else - I'd love to see anything tangible to convince me, I just don't see it......... I hope we get an absolute answer before I croak, but I fear that won't happen. 

Agreed on the LHO but as from the photo's from the otherside of the street they are real and seen them in documentaries and in books on the subject but the film I haven't ,heard there is one though. I agree but don't think the real truth will ever come out but we got a pretty good idea who was involved and how it went down.

[Cruzer 1,995]

1 minute ago, BeenHereBefore said:

Agreed on the LHO but as from the photo's from the otherside of the street they are real and seen them in documentaries and in books on the subject but the film I haven't ,heard there is one though. I agree but don't think the real truth will ever come out but we got a pretty good idea who was involved and how it went down.

Can you site these documentaries with said photos? Something as explosive as those seem conspicuously elusive. To have the actual shooter captured in photos, and nowhere but a couple exclusive documentaries to have them? Just doens't make any sense. 

Another thing that doesn't make any sense is to have the killer be in the car... Wallace and/or whomever planned this went to extensive trouble to hide the shooters; warehouse/high rise windows, grassy knolls, bridges - all that work to conceal the shooters.....and then a shooter in the car? Whomever planned this could not risk the shooter being seen or caught - if they were, they could be interrogated and linked up the chain of command. Thousands in the streets, in the plaza - they'd risk all of them not seeing the driver turn and pop a cap in his head? Just doesn't make any sense. 

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

11 minutes ago, Cruzer said:

Can you site these documentaries with said photos? Something as explosive as those seem conspicuously elusive. To have the actual shooter captured in photos, and nowhere but a couple exclusive documentaries to have them? Just doens't make any sense. 

Another thing that doesn't make any sense is to have the killer be in the car... Wallace and/or whomever planned this went to extensive trouble to hide the shooters; warehouse/high rise windows, grassy knolls, bridges - all that work to conceal the shooters.....and then a shooter in the car? Whomever planned this could not risk the shooter being seen or caught - if they were, they could be interrogated and linked up the chain of command. Thousands in the streets, in the plaza - they'd risk all of them not seeing the driver turn and pop a cap in his head? Just doesn't make any sense. 

I seen them in various ones over the years and can't remember which ones, The Men That Killed Kennedy maybe one of them but can't remember for sure. They exist and am sure others seen them, the ones I seen you couldn't see the drivers gun in them and were a few seconds before the fatal shot. As for your second question Films, cameras were confiscated by the FBI right after the shooting and even the Zapruder film was taken by the FBI. Witness told they was wrong about what they saw and heard. not to mention many unexplained deaths of witnesses.

[Cruzer 1,995]

6 hours ago, BeenHereBefore said:

I seen them in various ones over the years and can't remember which ones, The Men That Killed Kennedy maybe one of them but can't remember for sure. They exist and am sure others seen them, the ones I seen you couldn't see the drivers gun in them and were a few seconds before the fatal shot. As for your second question Films, cameras were confiscated by the FBI right after the shooting and even the Zapruder film was taken by the FBI. Witness told they was wrong about what they saw and heard. not to mention many unexplained deaths of witnesses.

It was the CIA who actually held the ZF from that Sunday thru Monday the next day.. Time Life purchased the film on Nov. 25. 

As far as the Men Who Killed Kennedy, I've watched it 50 times, recently in fact - those alleged photos are not in there, nor is there ever any suggestion of such. 

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

1 hour ago, Cruzer said:

It was the CIA who actually held the ZF from that Sunday thru Monday the next day.. Time Life purchased the film on Nov. 25. 

As far as the Men Who Killed Kennedy, I've watched it 50 times, recently in fact - those alleged photos are not in there, nor is there ever any suggestion of such. 

Like I said I seen so many docs on it over the years I can't remember which ones. Photos of it might be in one of my books on it and haven't read them since the 90's. Will have to check them tomorrow and it might be in the Mortal Error one I have. Here is a clip that shows video from the other side opposite street of the Zapruder about 2;45 in.

 

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

Here is the one lady who took one.

 

[Cruzer 1,995]

7 hours ago, BeenHereBefore said:

Like I said I seen so many docs on it over the years I can't remember which ones. Photos of it might be in one of my books on it and haven't read them since the 90's. Will have to check them tomorrow and it might be in the Mortal Error one I have. Here is a clip that shows video from the other side opposite street of the Zapruder about 2;45 in.

 

The assassination of JFK is the most infamous murder mystery in the history of America. Hundreds and thousands of books, articles, videos, documentaries and podcasts have been produced speculating on the turn of events and who actually did it..........and there's supposedly photos of the driver shooting the Prez, and nobody knows about it, nobody has seen them, they're buried in a select few obscure documentaries or books? Again, that doesn't make any sense. If a pic of a Bigfoot emerged tomorrow it would be plastered over media outlets all over the country - yet we can't get the pics of the guy shooting JFK? 

And I go back to again.. If you believe (as I do) that LHO was not only innocent but set up as a patsy from day 1, then you absolutely cannot have a 2nd shooter sitting in the car visible to thousands in the plaza, visible to SS agents in the follow up cars and gosh knows how many cameras and video recorders rolling tape. The mere sighting of the driver pulling the trigger completely destroys the Lone Gunman theory - which M. Wallace or whomever took painstaking strides, and months of work to create. All the work gone into making LHO the patsy and take the fall is blown out the water. 

[jonmx 2,424]

20 hours ago, BeenHereBefore said:

Jackie and Nellie was probably in fear for their own lives and children's afterwards. Jackie also tried to climb out of the car right after the fatal shot.

Jackie was retrieving part of JFK's brain/skull in a spur of the moment desperate attempt to save him.   Jackie privately believed that a conspiracy killed her husband, but successfully fought very hard to keep those thoughts from being published.  It was probably a combination of fear and a sense of wanting to maintain faith in our government.  

[jonmx 2,424]

I am of the opinion that there were several small edits to the Zapruter film that first weekend.   I believe there was a bullet hole in the street sign which were edited out.   I believe there were a frame or two before and/or after the jfk head shot which were removed.   I also believe the only frame which shows the head shot splatter (should have been over several frames), the splatter was removed from behind his head.   There might have also been some editing to remove any indication of the brake lights being on.  Much of that is based on circumstantial evidence (such as the sign was replaced the next day), physical evidence of where blood and brains were splattered, and the interview of Gino Brugioni who worked on story boarding the film for the CIA and saw the original before the edits were made the following day

  

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

1 hour ago, jonmx said:

Jackie was retrieving part of JFK's brain/skull in a spur of the moment desperate attempt to save him.   Jackie privately believed that a conspiracy killed her husband, but successfully fought very hard to keep those thoughts from being published.  It was probably a combination of fear and a sense of wanting to maintain faith in our government.  

It's hard to say for sure what she was doing, some say it was that and some say she was trying to escape for her own safety. Watching it I can make a argument for both. I heard that she thought it was a conspiracy but kept it to herself as well.

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

1 hour ago, jonmx said:

I am of the opinion that there were several small edits to the Zapruter film that first weekend.   I believe there was a bullet hole in the street sign which were edited out.   I believe there were a frame or two before and/or after the jfk head shot which were removed.   I also believe the only frame which shows the head shot splatter (should have been over several frames), the splatter was removed from behind his head.   There might have also been some editing to remove any indication of the brake lights being on.  Much of that is based on circumstantial evidence (such as the sign was replaced the next day), physical evidence of where blood and brains were splattered, and the interview of Gino Brugioni who worked on story boarding the film for the CIA and saw the original before the edits were made the following day

  

I seen probably about 6 different ones of the Zapruder film over the years. There is some that are doctored adding more blood. Another the flips for a second of the other side of the street.another that goes blank for a frame or two at a key point of the shooting.

[jonmx 2,424]

2 minutes ago, BeenHereBefore said:

It's hard to say for sure what she was doing, some say it was that and some say she was trying to escape for her own safety. Watching it I can make a argument for both. I heard that she thought it was a conspiracy but kept it to herself as well.

I am certain Jackie was not trying to escape.  She did not duck for cover.  She held her husband.  She would not leave his side.  She adored John and would do anything to protect his legacy.  She refused to change her blood covered cloths for LBJ's swearing in.   

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

3 hours ago, Cruzer said:

The assassination of JFK is the most infamous murder mystery in the history of America. Hundreds and thousands of books, articles, videos, documentaries and podcasts have been produced speculating on the turn of events and who actually did it..........and there's supposedly photos of the driver shooting the Prez, and nobody knows about it, nobody has seen them, they're buried in a select few obscure documentaries or books? Again, that doesn't make any sense. If a pic of a Bigfoot emerged tomorrow it would be plastered over media outlets all over the country - yet we can't get the pics of the guy shooting JFK? 

And I go back to again.. If you believe (as I do) that LHO was not only innocent but set up as a patsy from day 1, then you absolutely cannot have a 2nd shooter sitting in the car visible to thousands in the plaza, visible to SS agents in the follow up cars and gosh knows how many cameras and video recorders rolling tape. The mere sighting of the driver pulling the trigger completely destroys the Lone Gunman theory - which M. Wallace or whomever took painstaking strides, and months of work to create. All the work gone into making LHO the patsy and take the fall is blown out the water. 

Yes I believe like you do that Oswald was what he said just a patsy and never killed Kennedy or Tibbit, I believe he was Involved with the CIA and FBI as well but don't get why that would not make the driver William Greer not involved. Half the SS were in on it in Dallas and half was not. The driver was the key and maybe last resort to make sure the president didn't leave Dallas alive.

Some of the SS was partying to the am hours of the morning at the hotel bar and guessing these were the probably the ones in on it. The driver William Greer broke the car around the time of the shots doing the opposite what he was trained. The SS was in a huge fight with the Parkland doctors about who was getting Kennedy's body that they drew their guns. Later the Driver and Roy Killerman the same ones that drove Kennedy through the parade takes the body to the airport. After that we have the missing brain. To pull this of they had to be involved and were two key components to make it work.

Some of SS not involved I would say Clint Hill that tried to help Jackie and the one at the airport that put his hands up in the air in a wtf gesture when told not to guard next to the car like he was normally trained to do.

Also look at famous successful assassination in history, the victim is usually killed at close range and better percent that they are successful. mob hits as well are mostly close up.

[Mookz 1,337]

17 minutes ago, BeenHereBefore said:

 

Some of the SS was partying to the am hours of the morning at the hotel bar and guessing these were the probably the ones in on it. The driver William Greer broke the car around the time of the shots doing the opposite what he was trained. The SS was in a huge fight with the Parkland doctors about who was getting Kennedy's body that they drew their guns. Later the Driver and Roy Killerman the same ones that drove Kennedy through the parade takes the body to the airport. After that we have the missing brain. To pull this of they had to be involved and were two key components to make it work.

Somebody oughta take a look into this guy. 

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

8 minutes ago, Mookz said:

Somebody oughta take a look into this guy. 

The name does say it all lol.

[Gepetto 1,286]

The New York Times   https://www.nytimes.com/1964/09/28/archives/autopsy-showed-2-bullet-wounds-shot-through-brain-fatal-medical.html

Sept. 28, 1964

AUTOPSY SHOWED 2 BULLET WOUNDS; Shot Through Brain Fatal, Medical Report Says

There was no chance of saving President Kennedy's life after the assassin's bullet passed from the back of his head through the right side of the brain, according to the Warren Commission report.

This point, confirming what had been widely believed, was a major conclusion of the three doctors who performed an autopsy on the President six hours after his death.

The autopsy report appears to have ended any confusion about the number of bullet wounds the President suffered. There appeared to have been two bullets, each of which caused an entrance and an exit wound. The medical and physical evidence gave no way of proving which struck first, the doctors said.

The bullet that hit the back of the President's head seemed to have caused a small entrance wound (one‐fourth of an inch by five‐eights of an inch) and the other massive wound that gravely damaged the right side of the President's brain. The other bullet made a small hole at the base of the back of the neck, which was not found until autopsy, and an exit wound in the front of the neck.

 

Findings of the autopsy were made public for the first time as an appendix to the Warren Commission report. The examination was performed at the Naval Medical School, Bethesda, Md.

“It is our opinion that the deceased died as a result of two perforating gunshot wounds inflicted by high‐velocity projectiles fired by a person or persons unknown. The projectiles were fired from a point behind and somewhat above the level of the deceased. The observations and available information do not permit a satisfactory estimate as to the sequence of the two wounds,” the report said.

Eyewitness accounts of the assassination have indicated that President Kennedy was struck first in the upper back and that the second shot tore his head.

The autopsy desscribed the bullet entering the skull as “the fatal missile.”

As a concluding statement the doctors said: “It is our opinion that the wound of the skull produced such extensive damage to the brain as to preclude the possibility of the deceased surviving this injury.” The autopsy report was signed by J. J. Humes, Commander, Medical Corps, U.S.N.; Hhornton Boswell, Commander, Medical Corps, U.S.N., and Pierre A. Finck, Lieut. Col., Medical Corps, U.S. Army.

Other testimony before the commission confirmed that the President's head wound was fatal and that there was vanishingly small likelihood that he ever regained consciousness after that bullet struck.

 

The bullet hit the upper right portion of the back of the President's skull, ripped through the brain leaving traces of metal in its path. Part of it emerged further to the front, carrying with it pieces of brain tissue, scalp and skull.

Most of the pieces of bone were recovered later in a search of Elm Street and the President's car. The wound lacerated much of the right side of Mr. Kennedy's brain and caused many criss‐cross skull fractures. A sizabze metal fragment was found just above the President's right eye.

The second primary wound was at the base of the back of the neck to the right of the spine, according to the autopsy report. This was presumably the point of entry of the other bullet, the report said.

The presumed exit wound from this bullet was a small wound in the lower neck in front, which involved damage to the trachea or windpipe. This wound's original dimensions were distorted by surgeons efforts to restore an air passage to the President's lungs.

The President had arrived at the emergency room of Parkland Memorial Hospital at 12:43 P.M., C.S.T., according to documents in the commission's report. He was first seen by Dr. Charles J. Carrico, a resident in general surgery.

 

Dr. Carrico described the President as “blue‐white or ashen in color.” His breathing was slow, spasmodic and without any coordination. His eyes were open; the pupils were dilated and did not react to light. He had no pulse. A few chest sounds, thought to be heart beats, could be heard.

On these observations Dr. Carrico decided the President was alive, if only barely so. Two wounds could be seen; a small one in the front lower neck and a large one in the head where a sizable portion of the skull was missing (measurement later showed this wound measured more than five inches in its largest dimension).

The first examination took only a few moments. Dr. Carrico felt the President's back, determined there was no wound there large enough to be an immediate threat to life, and immediately started working to improve flow of air to the lungs by the use of a tube to the windpipe at the site of the front neck wound.

At that point, Dr. Malcolm O. Perry, assistant professor of surgery, reached the emergency room and took over the direction of the fight to save the President's life.

Altogether 12 doctors had rushed to the emergency area as soon as the message was passed that the President had been wounded and was on his way.

 

The rapidly assembling team tried all the measures that might conceivably have saved the President's life.

These included a tube into the trachea to assist breathing; intravenous injections of fluids and blood, direct heart massage to maintain circulation; even injection of hdrocortisons because of the President's known deficiency in adrenal gland function.

None of these measures was of any avail. Finally, since there were no nervous, muscular or heart responses, the doctors conconcluded the efforts were hopeless.

Dr. William Kemp Clark officially declared the President dead at 1 P.M.

Dr. Clark was chosen to do so because brain damage was considered the ultimate cause of death and this put the matter within his field of specialization as director of neuroolgical surgery.

The Warren Commission report noted that, since the doctors had directed all their efforts to controlling the massive bleeding caused by the head wound, to reconstructing an airway to the lungs to heart stimulation, the President remained on his back throughout the ordeal.

 

Not much attention was paid to the other wound except for the damaged trachea where, evidently, part of the bullet must have emerged in front.

The Commission later asked Dr. Carrico if he had looked at the President's back.

The answer was that there had been no time during the first examination because the President's needs were so obvious and pressing. Later while the President was being given closed chest heart massage, such examination was not possible.

The Commission report then gives this sequence in the testimony:

Q. Was any effort made to inspect the President's back after he had expired?

A. No, sir.

Q. And why was no effort made at that time to inspect his back?

A. I suppose nobody really had the heart to do it.

[jonmx 2,424]

3 hours ago, Gepetto said:

The New York Times   https://www.nytimes.com/1964/09/28/archives/autopsy-showed-2-bullet-wounds-shot-through-brain-fatal-medical.html

Sept. 28, 1964

AUTOPSY SHOWED 2 BULLET WOUNDS; Shot Through Brain Fatal, Medical Report Says

There was no chance of saving President Kennedy's life after the assassin's bullet passed from the back of his head through the right side of the brain, according to the Warren Commission report.

This point, confirming what had been widely believed, was a major conclusion of the three doctors who performed an autopsy on the President six hours after his death.

The autopsy report appears to have ended any confusion about the number of bullet wounds the President suffered. There appeared to have been two bullets, each of which caused an entrance and an exit wound. The medical and physical evidence gave no way of proving which struck first, the doctors said.

The bullet that hit the back of the President's head seemed to have caused a small entrance wound (one‐fourth of an inch by five‐eights of an inch) and the other massive wound that gravely damaged the right side of the President's brain. The other bullet made a small hole at the base of the back of the neck, which was not found until autopsy, and an exit wound in the front of the neck.

Findings of the autopsy were made public for the first time as an appendix to the Warren Commission report. The examination was performed at the Naval Medical School, Bethesda, Md.

 

The Warren Commission was set up by LBJ with the directive not that they investigate, but that they conclude Oswald did it and acted alone.  LBJ went as far as telling Chief Justice if they do not come to that conclusion, there will be a nuclear war and 40 million Americans will die.

LBJ also appointed ex-CIA director Allan Dulles to the Commission to control every piece of evidence and every witness that the WC had access to.  Dulles was fired by JFK for insubordination and for his involvement in the Bay of Pigs fiasco.  Dulles hated JFK with a passion and wanted him dead.  Dulles had over a dozen foreign leaders assassinated during his tenure as CIA director.   But yet no one in the media brought up this conflict of interest.  

The New York Times has been infiltrated with CIA assets for more than 60 years and has been platform for government propaganda.  

The autopsy at Bethesda was a joke.  They had a bunch of Generals overseeing it who all viewed Kennedy as a commie-loving trader.  They hated that he gave no cover for the Bay of Pigs, caved to the Soviets on the Cuban Missile Crisis and now was going to pull out of Vietnam.  They were all congratulating each other over the assassination and some were smoking cigars as they directed the doctors what they could and could not do.   Nothing about the autopsy was legit. They had a brain which was fully in tact, which every doctor at Parkland saw a very large portion of the brain was missing.  The head only showed a small bullet wound in the back of JFK's head, but the doctors at Parkland said a large portion of the rear of JFKs head was missing.  X-rays have never been disclosed and never will be.  The phoney brain has gone missing.   It was never dissected like it should have been to prove the path of the bullet.

You can continue your worldview that our government is honest and that the New York Times is our watchdog media that does awesome unbias reporting.  Unfortunately our news media, information available on the web, textbooks are all controlled by our government.  

[Gepetto 1,286]

Well it's a dame shame, because although I'm a lifelong Republican, and JFK was before I was born, I feel he was a good President and was doing right for our Country.

[Gepetto 1,286]

Found this 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/jfk/jfk1110.htm#:~:text=O'Neill told the board,of the brain was missing."

[Cruzer 1,995]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:23 AM, BeenHereBefore said:

Yes I believe like you do that Oswald was what he said just a patsy and never killed Kennedy or Tibbit, I believe he was Involved with the CIA and FBI as well but don't get why that would not make the driver William Greer not involved. Half the SS were in on it in Dallas and half was not. The driver was the key and maybe last resort to make sure the president didn't leave Dallas alive.

When discussing William Greer, I think all must understand the distinction between being in on the assassination and being a shooter. It's entirely possible Greer was in on the conspiracy. Roy Kelleman was the other rider in the front seat of the motorcade, and not by accident. Kellerman was the senior SS agent (and senior to Greer) assigned to protect the President. As soon as it was clear the motorcade was taking on fire, Kellerman yelled to Greer, "Let's get out of line, we've been hit!" - yet Greer slowed down, so maybe he was in on it... At no time did Kellerman ever mention (though) that Greer pulled a gun and fired a shot. 

So now you have Ms. Kennedy, Lady Bird and Roy Kellerman all in the motorcade - not a single one of them ever mentioning that a shot came from inside the vehicle. Which when a handgun is fired point blank, you're gonna know it. But there's one more, John Connally - he never mentioned it either. In every interview I've seen of his, he's consistent in the fact he was clearly conscious and heard the shot that took JFK's head off. Again, never once saying it came from an arm's reach away. 

I've run countless simulations in my head, never have I been able to conclude Greer fired a shot..... I go back to this: thousands lining the streets and, in the plaza, countless cameras and video recorders rolling tape, follow up cars full of SS agents trained to give their lives for the President and his family, and not a single person witnessed or recorded Greer pulling a gun and firing a shot... It's almost mathematically impossible for the thousands of eyeballs focused on the motorcade to not have seen something.... Then you have the plot - all the efforts to design a patsy, all the work to conceal the shooters - to have all that blown up by a shooter in the car exposing them all? What was Greer's escape plan? Did he plan to just keep driving and ditch? Was driving to Parkland and pretending like nothing happened part of the plan? Greer going undetected, by all the thousands and thousands of eyeballs, was part the conspirators plan - they figured he wouldn't be seen? That's a reach that's simply too outrageous to conceive. 

I'm also a bit still hung up on these supposed photos of Greer pulling the trigger... Since the day of the assassination thousands of investigators, researchers, authors, crime junkies, true crime enthusiasts, journalists - all have rabidly turned over every rock searching for even the slightest crumb of evidence to find the real killer(s). This mob has even gone so far as to sue organizations to release documents. If ever photos existed, these guys would have been all over them......yet they're buried in some obscure documentary.....ummm, another reach for me.

[Cruzer 1,995]

Anything that starts with the official JFK autopsy at Andrews AFB has to be completely ignored - that was as bad as any Hollywood movie. 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,307]

 Pretty nice airport. Better than Newark.

[jonmx 2,424]

9 hours ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 Pretty nice airport. Better than Newark.

Newark was the biggest armpit ever.  I believe they have updated it nicely, but the location is the worst.  I used to have work related travel to Jersey.  You filled up with gas 30 miles away. 

[jonmx 2,424]

10 hours ago, Cruzer said:

When discussing William Greer, I think all must understand the distinction between being in on the assassination and being a shooter. It's entirely possible Greer was in on the conspiracy. Roy Kelleman was the other rider in the front seat of the motorcade, and not be accident. Kellerman was the senior SS agent (and senior to Greer) assigned to protect the President. As soon as it was clear the motorcade was taking on fire, Kellerman yelled to Greer, "Let's get out of line, we've been hit!" - yet Greer slowed down, so maybe he was in on it... At no time did Kellerman ever mention (though) that Greer pulled a gun and fired a shot. 

So now you have Ms. Kennedy, Lady Bird and Roy Kellerman all in the motorcade - not a single one of them ever mentioning that a shot came from inside the vehicle. Which when a handgun is fired point blank, you're gonna know it. But there's one more, John Connally - he never mentioned it either. In every interview I've seen of his, he's consistent in the fact he was clearly conscious and heard the shot that took JFK's head off. Again, never once saying it came from an arm's reach away. 

I've run countless simulations in my head, never have I been able to conclude Greer fired a shot..... I go back to this: thousands lining the streets and, in the plaza, countless cameras and video recorders rolling tape, follow up cars full of SS agents trained to give their lives for the President and his family, and not a single person witnessed of recorded Greer pulling a gun and firing a shot... It's almost mathematically impossible for the thousands of eyeballs focused on the motorcade to not have seen something.... Then you have the plot - all the efforts to design a patsy, all the work to conceal the shooters - to have all that blown up by a car in the car exposing them all? What was Greer's escape plan? Did he plan to just keep driving and ditch? Was driving the Parkland and pretending like nothing happened part of the plan? Greer going undetected, by all the thousands and thousands of eyeballs, was part the conspirators plan - they figured he wouldn't be seen? That's a reach that's simply too outrageous to conceive. 

I'm also a bit still hung up on these supposed photos of Greer pulling the trigger... Since the day of the assassination thousands of investigators, researchers, authors, crime junkies, true crime enthusiasts, journalists - all have rabidly turned over every rock searching for even the slightest crumb of evidence to find the real killer(s). This mob has even gone so far as to sue organizations to release documents. If ever photos existed, these guys would have been all over them......yet their buried in some obscure documentary.....ummm, another reach for me.

 

I am convinced the Greer is the shooter story and the SS agent accidently shot JFK are all CIA planted misinformation.  I think they want to divide all the people smart enough to see through the government coverup story into different camps. It is indisputable that the FBI, CIA, and the military covered up the truth.   They really need a consensus story to get behind, even if it does not contain the complete details because so much evidence was altered or destroyed. 

[BunnysBastatrds 2,307]

13 minutes ago, jonmx said:

Newark was the biggest armpit ever.  I believe they have updated it nicely, but the location is the worst.  I used to have work related travel to Jersey.  You filled up with gas 30 miles away. 

 First time I landed there, I walked out to have a heater and coffee. I looked across and saw the Budweiser distribution center. Massive. A cabby asked for one and I said “That’s a huge facility and that sign is the biggest I’ve ever seen.” Cabbie: That’s the biggest sign in all of America. I went back in and went to the bar and got myself a beer.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,307]

15 minutes ago, jonmx said:

 

I am convinced the Greer is the shooter story and the SS agent accidently shot JFK are all CIA planted misinformation.  I think they want to divide all the people smart enough to see through the government coverup story into different camps. It is indisputable that the FBI, CIA, and the military covered up the truth.   They really need a consensus story to get behind, even if it does not contain the complete details because so much evidence was altered or destroyed. 

 The top secret documents won’t be released until 2033. Gurante most will be blacked out. 

[jonmx 2,424]

28 minutes ago, BunnysBastatrds said:

 The top secret documents won’t be released until 2033. Gurante most will be blacked out. 

Or lost.  

[BeenHereBefore 1,452]

3 hours ago, jonmx said:

 

I am convinced the Greer is the shooter story and the SS agent accidently shot JFK are all CIA planted misinformation.  I think they want to divide all the people smart enough to see through the government coverup story into different camps. It is indisputable that the FBI, CIA, and the military covered up the truth.   They really need a consensus story to get behind, even if it does not contain the complete details because so much evidence was altered or destroyed. 

I don't believe the SS agent in the limo behind killed Kennedy and read the book Mortal Error just to keep a open mind and was no good evidence in the book to support the theory. Killerman was in on it with Greer and they was seen laughing after being interviewed by the WC as to being above the law.  What Cruzer can't wrap his head around is there are bad people in all organizations and that Jackie and the others were in fear for the own lives and children and why they stayed quiet on what they saw. Heck the killed the President and could easier get to them.

[Cruzer 1,995]

14 hours ago, jonmx said:

 

I am convinced the Greer is the shooter story and the SS agent accidently shot JFK are all CIA planted misinformation.  I think they want to divide all the people smart enough to see through the government coverup story into different camps. It is indisputable that the FBI, CIA, and the military covered up the truth.   They really need a consensus story to get behind, even if it does not contain the complete details because so much evidence was altered or destroyed. 

I've said many times, I've no personal agenda against Greer being the shooter. All I've ever asked is to show me how - bcoz it makes no sense. 

The killing of JFK was the most elaborate, detailed, organized, planned, and coordinated murder in the history of civilization. Not only that, but it was pulled off in the middle of the day, with hundreds of witnesses, thousands and thousands of eyeballs and countless cameras and video cameras present - to be 2023 and not a single person have tangible evidence that the dude sitting arms reach from the Prez be the shooter makes zero sense. 

For arguments sake, let's say Greer did do it - he was wide ass out in the open, the plotters had to assume he would have been seen........... LHO was killed and was never even involved - do you really think the planners would have let Greer live? Hell no, absolutely not - he would have been killed probably even sooner than Oswald. Not only would he have obliterated the Lone Gunman theory, but he could also have possibly talked.......... Btw, William Greer lived a long full life, died at the age of 75.