This economy is so bad

[Sean Mooney 1,937]

Lots of self made millionaires are online making multiple aliases to shitpost on a fantasy football message board I'm sure. 

[Sean Mooney 1,937]

Look the simple fact is the economy is fine right now. It isn't great (some markers are, but overall it is not fully together), but it isn't a complete disaster like some want to paint it as. And we are far ahead of every other developed country in the world as we are now relatively past COVID and it's impacts 

[Strike 5,186]

9 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Look the simple fact is the economy is fine right now. It isn't great (some markers are, but overall it is not fully together), but it isn't a complete disaster like some want to paint it as. And we are far ahead of every other developed country in the world as we are now relatively past COVID and it's impacts 

I'm sure people struggling to pay their rent share your sentiment.

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, Strike said:

I'm sure people struggling to pay their rent share your sentiment.

Their entire approach on this is of course standard political reframing of the situation (lying) to pretend all is well.   What is really fascinating about this scenario is that they have to lie to the people they have harmed, the large majority of voters.   So it really is self-defeating to keep telling people that everything is great while people are living something very different.

They effectively have to p!ss of the majority of voters to sell this farce of "the economy is great".....which is obviously eroding their voter support as the polling indicates.

Hard to gaslight people who are living the reality.

[MDC 7,127]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

Their entire approach on this is of course standard political reframing of the situation (lying) to pretend all is well.   What is really fascinating about this scenario is that they have to lie to the people they have harmed, the large majority of voters.   So it really is self-defeating to keep telling people that everything is great while people are living something very different.

They effectively have to p!ss of the majority of voters to sell this farce of "the economy is great".....which is obviously eroding their voter support as the polling indicates.

Hard to gaslight people who are living the reality.

Plenty of gaslighting going around. Trump keeps claiming credit for the roaring economy he inherited but insisting the 8% unemployment and $8T he added to the debt wasn’t his fault and had nothing to do with inflation.

Both sides are lying, but the one in office always gets the credit or blame for whatever happens on their watch, even if it had nothing to do with their policies. 

[Sean Mooney 1,937]

11 minutes ago, Strike said:

I'm sure people struggling to pay their rent share your sentiment.

I literally said it isn't great and that some things are further ahead of others.

Why do you people get hyper focused on black and white in this stuff?

[RLLD 4,143]

5 minutes ago, MDC said:

Plenty of gaslighting going around. Trump keeps claiming credit for the roaring economy he inherited but insisting the 8% unemployment and $8T he added to the debt wasn’t his fault and had nothing to do with inflation.

Both sides are lying, but the one in office always gets the credit or blame for whatever happens on their watch, even if it had nothing to do with their policies. 

Correct, both sides will lie.  I think it could be true that Harris cant be honest here, because she will throw Biden under the bus, and the Biden team would then lash out at her.  So she may very well want to be honest, but cant....but as the polls get worse for her, will she go for broke at some point here and admit it? And risk the blowback from the Biden team?

[Sean Mooney 1,937]

Again it's important to point out- in almost every poll that has been taken people feel like they are doing well in the economy but the economy is doing poorly after all.

As it was before- there is a breakdown somewhere between perception and reality for people. 

[thegeneral 2,905]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

Correct, both sides will lie.  I think it could be true that Harris cant be honest here, because she will throw Biden under the bus, and the Biden team would then lash out at her.  So she may very well want to be honest, but cant....but as the polls get worse for her, will she go for broke at some point here and admit it? And risk the blowback from the Biden team?

If she wanted to be honest she could say something like tens of millions of you didn’t work for like a year, the government floated you all with money we printed so you felt no pain during that crazy time. There’s no magic bullet. The bill was coming due at some point. We are working through it as a nation and are coming out of it better than most of the world.

[Horseman 2,361]

38 minutes ago, Sean Mooney said:

Lots of self made millionaires are online making multiple aliases to shitpost on a fantasy football message board I'm sure. 

And some low rent failures in life who had to settle for a teachers salary. 

Apparently all kinds play fantasy football.  Who knew.  

[TimHauck 2,615]

11 hours ago, Horseman said:

It’s like you can’t even read.  

Please elaborate. I was expecting to be called racist for that post because I’m using blacks as a proxy for poor people, but it is relevant. I haven’t seen good data on real wages by income level, but we do have it based on race and blacks do generally have lower incomes than whites. I know you haven’t said the overall economy sucks, but you’ve repeatedly said it sucks for poor people. @RLLD has ridiculously claimed it’s the worst economy of the lower classes’ lifetime. His evidence of that was random YouTube videos of Black people saying they’re going to vote for Trump, so I had shown those charts to him previously yet he wouldn’t acknowledge that he was wrong.

The first chart was real wages, so of course is relevant to the current discussion about buying power. Here is an update and also a comparison vs whites:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252884600Q

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252883700Q

So let’s compare the change since Q4 2019 vs now:

Blacks: 294 then, 300 now

Whites: 376 then, 372 now

So, for whites it is actually down slightly, but for blacks it is up.

The economy isn’t great, but it doesn’t suck, even for poor people, and it most definitely is not the worst of the poor people’s lifetime.

[Horseman 2,361]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Please elaborate. I was expecting to be called racist for that post because I’m using blacks as a proxy for poor people, but it is relevant. I haven’t seen good data on real wages by income level, but we do have it based on race and blacks do generally have lower incomes than whites. I know you haven’t said the overall economy sucks, but you’ve repeatedly said it sucks for poor people. @RLLD has ridiculously claimed it’s the worst economy of the lower classes’ lifetime. His evidence of that was random YouTube videos of Black people saying they’re going to vote for Trump, so I had shown those charts to him previously yet he wouldn’t acknowledge that he was wrong.

The first chart was real wages, so of course is relevant to the current discussion about buying power. Here is an update and also a comparison vs whites:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252884600Q

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LEU0252883700Q

So let’s compare the change since Q4 2019 vs now:

Blacks: 294 then, 300 now

Whites: 376 then, 372 now

So, for whites it is actually down slightly, but for blacks it is up.

The economy isn’t great, but it doesn’t suck, even for poor people, and it most definitely is not the worst of the poor people’s lifetime.

 

11 hours ago, Horseman said:

Just stop. I’m not interested in educating you on economics. You’re not up to it.  I’m a self made multi millionaire.  You live off welfare.  

 

[TimHauck 2,615]

4 minutes ago, Horseman said:

 

 

It’s okay, you can admit you were wrong.

[RLLD 4,143]

15 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

If she wanted to be honest she could say something like tens of millions of you didn’t work for like a year, the government floated you all with money we printed so you felt no pain during that crazy time. There’s no magic bullet. The bill was coming due at some point. We are working through it as a nation and are coming out of it better than most of the world.

She could, which would infuriate people even more So  its best she not do that.

[Sean Mooney 1,937]

14 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

It’s okay, you can admit you were wrong.

SPOILER: He can't

[Horseman 2,361]

19 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

It’s okay, you can admit you were wrong.

No. I legit don't want to have a conversation with a retard.   

You're just going to have to take my word.  It's all you're getting.  

[Strike 5,186]

49 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

If she wanted to be honest she could say something like tens of millions of you didn’t work for like a year, the government floated you all with money we printed so you felt no pain during that crazy time. There’s no magic bullet. The bill was coming due at some point. We are working through it as a nation and are coming out of it better than most of the world.

I doubt people felt no pain during that time.  Try again.

[MDC 7,127]

13 minutes ago, Horseman said:

No. I legit don't want to have a conversation with a retard.   

You're just going to have to take my word.  It's all you're getting.  

Probably best for you to bow out.  

[thegeneral 2,905]

Just now, Strike said:

I doubt people felt no pain during that time.  Try again.

Relatively. If we didn’t float everyone what would it have looked like? All in all I’d say we did a pretty good job. Look at us compared to everyone else. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,931]

1 hour ago, MDC said:

Plenty of gaslighting going around. Trump keeps claiming credit for the roaring economy he inherited but insisting the 8% unemployment and $8T he added to the debt wasn’t his fault and had nothing to do with inflation.

Both sides are lying, but the one in office always gets the credit or blame for whatever happens on their watch, even if it had nothing to do with their policies. 

not voting for Kamala 

[MDC 7,127]

I am on the fence about Kamala vs 3rd party. I think she’d be a mediocre POTUS at best, but marginally better than Trump. I’m not sure yet if that’s worth my vote. It’s an election year that makes me wish I didn’t live in a swing state.

I’ll be sure to let you guys know what I end up doing.  

[Horseman 2,361]

12 minutes ago, MDC said:

I am on the fence about Kamala vs 3rd party. I think she’d be a mediocre POTUS at best, but marginally better than Trump. I’m not sure yet if that’s worth my vote. It’s an election year that makes me wish I didn’t live in a swing state.

I’ll be sure to let you guys know what I end up doing.  

Kloseted for Kamala  

[MDC 7,127]

Just now, Horseman said:

Kloseted for Kamala  

If I end up voting for Harris, I promise to come skipping out of the closet to let you all know!  

[Horseman 2,361]

19 minutes ago, MDC said:

If I end up voting for Harris, I promise to come skipping out of the closet to let you all know!  

No need, we already know.  

[TimHauck 2,615]

56 minutes ago, Horseman said:

No. I legit don't want to have a conversation with a retard.   

You're just going to have to take my word.  It's all you're getting.  

We’ll here’s an economist, and one that’s not biased towards the current admin as I believe he is Libertarian:

The blog post is a couple months old but actually touches on multiple parts of this discussion, all agreeing with things I’ve stated:

1.  Comparing to Q4 2019 makes the most sense because during the pandemic the data is out of whack

2.  Overall wages have actually outpaced inflation

3.  Wage growth adjusted for inflation has actually been the highest among the lowest income strata (proving you and @RLLD wrong)

[MDC 7,127]

4 minutes ago, Horseman said:

No need, we already know.  

Don’t lash out at me just cause Tim kicked your ass. 

[RLLD 4,143]

8 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

We’ll here’s an economist, and one that’s not biased towards the current admin as I believe he is Libertarian:

The blog post is a couple months old but actually touches on multiple parts of this discussion, all agreeing with things I’ve stated:

1.  Comparing to Q4 2019 makes the most sense because during the pandemic the data is out of whack

2.  Overall wages have actually outpaced inflation

3.  Wage growth adjusted for inflation has actually been the highest among the lowest income strata (proving you and @RLLD wrong)

You can hold on this, white knuckled, all you want.  The people out there are letting you know they dont buy it.  You cannot use this and I think the Democrats have stopped because they realized people were getting p!ssed off at being gaslit with this.   P!ssing on their leg and calling it rain has not been successful.

[thegeneral 2,905]

Our economy grew at a faster pace in last quarter this year than last quarter before Covid in 2019. 

[thegeneral 2,905]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

She could, which would infuriate people even more So  its best she not do that.

Everyone does like to blame someone else.

[TrailGuy 552]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

You can hold on this, white knuckled, all you want.  The people out there are letting you know they dont buy it.  You cannot use this and I think the Democrats have stopped because they realized people were getting p!ssed off at being gaslit with this.   P!ssing on their leg and calling it rain has not been successful.

Your point is that we can ignore facts and data and just go by what people feel?  Wasn't there a time where you exclaimed "Fock your feelings"

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

Everyone does like to blame someone else.

I think this is true.  The notion of accountability in our culture has become frustratingly rare.  We see it all too often, and the result is often disparate outcomes.  Those who embrace accountability are more successful that those who do not.

[RLLD 4,143]

1 minute ago, TrailGuy said:

Your point is that we can ignore facts and data and just go by what people feel?  Wasn't there a time where you exclaimed "Fock your feelings"

I think data and facts are always useful.  But when you trot out stats that have no bearing on the daily lives of average citizens as proof that their complaints and concerns are not valid, you will tend to lose them as voters.  Which has happened. 

[TimHauck 2,615]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

You can hold on this, white knuckled, all you want.  The people out there are letting you know they dont buy it.  You cannot use this and I think the Democrats have stopped because they realized people were getting p!ssed off at being gaslit with this.   P!ssing on their leg and calling it rain has not been successful.

How are they letting us know?  By saying they plan to vote for Trump?   Again, I’ve acknowledged that Trump’s economy was better.  So saying someone plans to vote for Trump doesn’t mean they think the economy is the worst in their lifetime, or heck, even that it’s particularly bad.  Just that it was better under Trump.

[TrailGuy 552]

8 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think data and facts are always useful.  But when you trot out stats that have no bearing on the daily lives of average citizens as proof that their complaints and concerns are not valid, you will tend to lose them as voters.  Which has happened. 

I agree with you that you can't tell a person that they are actually better off now than they were 4 years ago.

But as far as an exercise of agreeing on truthful facts, you and I can agree that they are, right?

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, TimHauck said:

How are they letting us know?  By saying they plan to vote for Trump?   Again, I’ve acknowledged that Trump’s economy was better.  So saying someone plans to vote for Trump doesn’t mean they think the economy is the worst in their lifetime, or heck, even that it’s particularly bad.  Just that it was better under Trump.

In part they are letting us know by the polling where the economy is noted as a prominent factor in their voting decisions.   For them, this economy is certainly the worst in their lifetime

[TrailGuy 552]

1 minute ago, TimHauck said:

How are they letting us know?  By saying they plan to vote for Trump?   Again, I’ve acknowledged that Trump’s economy was better.  So saying someone plans to vote for Trump doesn’t mean they think the economy is the worst in their lifetime, or heck, even that it’s particularly bad.  Just that it was better under Trump.

They also have Trump telling them lies that they now believe.  He's constantly telling his base that we are a failing nation, grocery prices have quadrupled, our nation will be gone if he loses.  All lies.

[RLLD 4,143]

Just now, TrailGuy said:

I agree with you that you can't tell a person that they are actually better off now than they were 4 years ago.

But as far as an exercise of agreeing on truthful facts, you and I can agree that they are, right?

I hesitate to be manipulated by stats trotted out for political purposes.  Often they are manipulated, later amended and otherwise misrepresented.  This is not unique to any party or political player, they all do it.   I recall when there was the maneuver to point to the stock market as some indicator of economic health under Trump, which was also a misuse of that data point.

My bigger problem with the current situation is that it was avoidable, and when manifested it was denied and then later it was declared less than a problem and then actions were taken to make it even worse.  I do not think people really appreciate the damage that has been done.

[TimHauck 2,615]

5 minutes ago, RLLD said:

In part they are letting us know by the polling where the economy is noted as a prominent factor in their voting decisions.   For them, this economy is certainly the worst in their lifetime

But again, the polling is usually just asking if they prefer Trump or Harris on economic policies.  Do you have a link to polling saying people think it’s the worst economy of their lifetime?

[RLLD 4,143]

2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

But again, the polling is usually just asking if they prefer Trump or Harris on economic policies.  Do you have a link to polling saying people think it’s the worst economy of their lifetime?

The polling may as the question in any manner they choose.  Regardless, the people feel the harm.   Eventually when you hurt people enough for enough time, none of the lies can overcome that.  This is where Democrats are right now.  They have fomented a situation where people are facing the worst economic situation of their lifetime.

[TimHauck 2,615]

9 minutes ago, RLLD said:

The polling may as the question in any manner they choose.  Regardless, the people feel the harm.   Eventually when you hurt people enough for enough time, none of the lies can overcome that.  This is where Democrats are right now.  They have fomented a situation where people are facing the worst economic situation of their lifetime.

So no link, got it