***OFFICIAL Wild Card Round Games Thread***

[Bert 1,098]

Ok, so it was the defense. No wait, it was the running game. No wait, it was the kicker, yeah that's it, it was the kicker.  Amazingly all those things somehow left the organization when Brady left to go win another SB. 

ETA: It is nice to have a little discussion without a bunch of political crap.  Have a good day gentlemen.  

[edjr 5,593]

37 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Here we are, shooting the breeze talking sports and you just have to get evil at the end. 

Not intended. Only time in my life I cried when my team won. 

[edjr 5,593]

32 minutes ago, Bert said:

Ok, so it was the defense. No wait, it was the running game. No wait, it was the kicker, yeah that's it, it was the kicker.  Amazingly all those things somehow left the organization when Brady left to go win another SB. 

ETA: It is nice to have a little discussion without a bunch of political crap.  Have a good day gentlemen.  

2021 Brady > 2001 Brady

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

12 minutes ago, edjr said:

Not intended. Only time in my life I cried when my team won. 

I still have the scars.  And I’m not kidding. I hated A-Rod from jump and it took one season for him to wreck it all. 

[edjr 5,593]

Just now, Hardcore troubadour said:

I still have the scars.  And I’m not kidding. I hated A-Rod from jump and it took one season for him to wreck it all. 

I remember how sad all us Sox fans were when he left us at the altar for the Yankees. 

[Bier Meister 1,519]

12 hours ago, Bert said:

Dude you know damn well all those rings belong to Brady and Brady alone.  The "Patriot Way" was the largest myth and all of sport.  

What is Bill's career record with out Brady? Same for Matti P, O'Brien, Josh, etc.

 

12 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

You gotta stop with this. From 2001-2006 Brady threw for 4K once and never had 30 td’s. Meanwhile the defense was at the top of the league. They won 3 SB’s during that. 

 

1 hour ago, Bert said:

Now do Bill's stats from 2020 - 2023 when he didn't have a QB that threw 30 TDs once.

As I asked what did Particia do without Brady?  Same for O'Brian, Josh, etc.

If they are all so great why are they unable to produce without Brady?  It is a very simple question.

 

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

It’s fine to state all that. It’s true. But you can’t discount the first half of the Patriots success. The first three were more about defense and running the ball. You think Drew Bledsoe couldn’t have won that first one ? 

HT and i rarely agree on much.  those early NEP teams were founded on A. smith, Dillon, D and ST (as were Big ben's in Pitt). it allowed brady/ben to grow into an excellent qbs.

 

As for the collapse of NEP post TB... you have to recall many players from their solid D opted out during that first covid year- and they never really recovered. 

[The Psychic Observer 196]

 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

1 minute ago, The Psychic Observer said:

 

What a trash heap Philly is, top to bottom. 

[Bert 1,098]

53 minutes ago, Bier Meister said:

 

 

 

HT and i rarely agree on much.  those early NEP teams were founded on A. smith, Dillon, D and ST (as were Big ben's in Pitt). it allowed brady/ben to grow into an excellent qbs.

 

As for the collapse of NEP post TB... you have to recall many players from their solid D opted out during that first covid year- and they never really recovered. 

That's fair but what did Bill the "genius" coach do before Brady?  5 of 6 losing seasons, 5-11 the 2 seasons before Brady.

[Bert 1,098]

54 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

What a trash heap Philly is, top to bottom. 

Amen!

[edjr 5,593]

57 minutes ago, The Psychic Observer said:

 

Luckily for Sirianni the concession stand was out of buckets of piss

[Bert 1,098]

1 hour ago, edjr said:

2021 Brady > 2001 Brady

True!  Bill with Brady great coach.  Bill without Brady loser.  He has 10 years of coaching without Brady and he could only manage 2 winning seasons.

[edjr 5,593]

Just now, Bert said:

True!  Bill with Brady great coach.  Bill without Brady loser.  He has 10 years of coaching without Brady and he could only manage 2 winning seasons.

Brady definitely needed Belicheat to become who he was. Once he became TB12, BB actually got in his way. 

[Bier Meister 1,519]

18 minutes ago, Bert said:

That's fair but what did Bill the "genius" coach do before Brady?  5 of 6 losing seasons, 5-11 the 2 seasons before Brady.

browns and jets...come on. you know better.

BB took over a mediocre pats team with only a few components of the one Parcells brought to a SB. Carroll did ok in between, but he build the dynasty. a true symbiotic relationship between the two. i also believe that the offense would have looked different if Bledsoe held the position... BB would have been more aggressive/pass-forward.  BB adapted to TB's skill sets. I argued for A smith over Kaep at the time for the same reasons (ball security/minimizing mistakes).

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

When that crybaby on the colts whined about the Pats mugging wr’s, the NFL gave in to him.  BB said  fine, watch this. That’s when Brady took off. Give BB some credit for adapting and unleashing his pass attack. Getting Moss for nothing helped, but he also helped make a star out of Wes Welker, who he traded for, and a Special teams guy named Edelman later on. He drafted Gronk as well. The greatest TE ever until a couple of years ago.  Hell, BB made Troy Brown relevant at one time 

[MDC 5,915]

1 hour ago, The Psychic Observer said:

 

 

[Bert 1,098]

3 hours ago, Bier Meister said:

browns and jets...come on. you know better.

BB took over a mediocre pats team with only a few components of the one Parcells brought to a SB. Carroll did ok in between, but he build the dynasty. a true symbiotic relationship between the two. i also believe that the offense would have looked different if Bledsoe held the position... BB would have been more aggressive/pass-forward.  BB adapted to TB's skill sets. I argued for A smith over Kaep at the time for the same reasons (ball security/minimizing mistakes).

5 years with the Browns, how many years does a coach need? The current Browns coach didn’t take 5 years.

 

That aside you can’t have it both ways on the Pats.  He needed time to fix the team, they weren’t his players but he gets a pass that the team turns into complete dog sh!t after he has been there 20 years?

So what do you predict from Bill in his next gig? The stats say losing seasons. I think Lombardi in Green Bay, Jimmy in Miami type performance.  

[Bert 1,098]

3 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

When that crybaby on the colts whined about the Pats mugging wr’s, the NFL gave in to him.  BB said  fine, watch this. That’s when Brady took off. Give BB some credit for adapting and unleashing his pass attack. Getting Moss for nothing helped, but he also helped make a star out of Wes Welker, who he traded for, and a Special teams guy named Edelman later on. He drafted Gronk as well. The greatest TE ever until a couple of years ago.  Hell, BB made Troy Brown relevant at one time 

And Welker, Gronk and Moss are no where near as good without Brady.  Look at Moss before he started playing with Brady.  Welker and Brown would have been nothing without Brady.
 

Put Welker, Brown, Moss with Bill coaching and the Pat’s QB over the last 4 years and let me know how that would turn out.  I’ll tell you, it would be the suck!  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

6 minutes ago, Bert said:

And Welker, Gronk and Moss are no where near as good without Brady.  Look at Moss before he started playing with Brady.  Welker and Brown would have been nothing without Brady.
 

Put Welker, Brown, Moss with Bill coaching and the Pat’s QB over the last 4 years and let me know how that would turn out.  I’ll tell you, it would be the suck!  

Moss was no good until Brady? His first six years his lowest yardage total was 1200 yards. Do you really think Gronk was a Brady creation? I think he had some talent too.  

[Bert 1,098]

8 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Moss was no good until Brady? His first six years his lowest yardage total was 1200 yards. Do you really think Gronk was a Brady creation? I think he had some talent too.  

Moss was great but what did he do the year before playing with Brady?

Gronk was great, period.  Do you really think he puts up the numbers he did with the QBs NE has had over the last 4 years?  Even Gronk GTFO and followed Brady.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

1 minute ago, Bert said:

Moss was great but what did he do the year before playing with Brady?

Gronk was great, period.  Do you really think he puts up the numbers he did with the QBs NE has had over the last 4 years?  Even Gronk GTFO and followed Brady.  

No I don’t. Those qb’s aren’t the goat or close. But I bet they would have been better. And Gronk would have been pretty good as well. Hell, Hunter Henry had his moments. In the two SB losses to the Giants, the Pats put up 14 and 17 points. Who gets the credit for that? 

[cmh6476 760]

Yeah ok moss wasn't a stud before he arrived in New England.  Kind of the same with Diggs.  Minny just sucks I guess. 

[Bier Meister 1,519]

1 hour ago, Bert said:

5 years with the Browns, how many years does a coach need? The current Browns coach didn’t take 5 years.

he took over a 3-13 team. went 6-10, 7-9, 7-9, 11-5.  i liked those teams, but still had obstacles in the AFC and Division

dramatic changes are not common.

1 hour ago, Bert said:

 

That aside you can’t have it both ways on the Pats.  He needed time to fix the team, they weren’t his players but he gets a pass that the team turns into complete dog sh!t after he has been there 20 years?

he gets a pass for a talented defense opting out. he does not get a pass for letting Jimmy go (nor failure to back up the postion)

1 hour ago, Bert said:

So what do you predict from Bill in his next gig? The stats say losing seasons. I think Lombardi in Green Bay, Jimmy in Miami type performance.  

Depends on where he goes and what he is working with imo.  Some teams seem pretty close (Chargers,  philly, dallas, Sea). i heard atl is in play.. a lot of young talent there.

I have lower expectations for teams like chi and wash

[Bier Meister 1,519]

1 hour ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Moss was no good until Brady? His first six years his lowest yardage total was 1200 yards. Do you really think Gronk was a Brady creation? I think he had some talent too.  

yep. he was excellent in Min.  Oakland, in general,  was a joke.

[Bier Meister 1,519]

1 hour ago, Bert said:

And Welker, Gronk and Moss are no where near as good without Brady.  Look at Moss before he started playing with Brady.  Welker and Brown would have been nothing without Brady.
 

Put Welker, Brown, Moss with Bill coaching and the Pat’s QB over the last 4 years and let me know how that would turn out.  I’ll tell you, it would be the suck!  

brown and glenn were at 950 the year before brady with bledsoe. glenn was at 1200 with bledsoe the year before that

welker was ok in mia prior, and ok in den after.  was a rec machine for brady. that transitioned to edelman

 

[weepaws 2,478]

12 hours ago, Bert said:

True!  Bill with Brady great coach.  Bill without Brady loser.  He has 10 years of coaching without Brady and he could only manage 2 winning seasons.

This Scripture should help you feel more comfortable, less alone.  

God hasn’t forsaken you, His Mercy, And Grace, and Love is still there for you.  

Isaiah 55:7.  Let The Wicked Forsake His Way, And The Unrighteous Man His Thoughts, And Let Him Return Unto The Lord, And He Will Have Mercy Upon Him, And To Our God, For He Will Abundantly Pardon.  

God’s Grace, Mercy, Love , just accept Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior, and Repent from your sins.  I’ll help you.  

See you soon in the Bible thread.  

Amen.  

[Reality 2,710]

14 hours ago, Bert said:

Moss was great but what did he do the year before playing with Brady?

WTF?

He only put up astronomical #'s before he got there...

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossRa00.htm

[Bert 1,098]

10 hours ago, Reality said:

WTF?

He only put up astronomical #'s before he got there...

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MossRa00.htm

553 yards and 3 TDs the year before going to NE.  1005 yards and 8 TDs the year before.  1493 and 23 TDs first year with Brady as QB. The Most TDs of his career. 

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

I wonder if Brady had Dungy and Manning had Bellicheck how it would have turned out? 

[Reality 2,710]

13 minutes ago, Bert said:

553 yards and 3 TDs the year before going to NE.  1005 yards and 8 TDs the year before.  1493 and 23 TDs first year with Brady as QB. The Most TDs of his career. 

C'mon man... You can't be serious...

Dude was a borderline HoF'er if he retired his last year in Minny. He had 9k yards & 90 TD's his first 7 years in the league, just stop...

This is silly talk... 

[listen2me 23 1,550]

6 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

I wonder if Brady had Dungy and Manning had Bellicheck how it would have turned out? 

Brady in a dome with marvin and wayne and edge for years together?  

Hmmm.  Not sure.  

[listen2me 23 1,550]

5 minutes ago, Reality said:

C'mon man... You can't be serious...

Dude was a borderline HoF'er if he retired his last year in Minny. He had 9k yards & 90 TD's his first 7 years in the league, just stop...

This is silly talk... 

I understand what he was saying.   Moss was left out in the pasture and said to not care about football.  Easy to do in Oakland I suppose.  Brady did put air into his lungs.  

Moss was a HOFer anyway tho.  Obviously a great QB and some motivation put him back up to speed.  Moss was probably 30 by then.  Still great but like 30.  

[listen2me 23 1,550]

Brady was quite prolific the 2nd half of his career when they let it hang out on offense instead of playing ball control.   

[Bert 1,098]

1 hour ago, Reality said:

C'mon man... You can't be serious...

Dude was a borderline HoF'er if he retired his last year in Minny. He had 9k yards & 90 TD's his first 7 years in the league, just stop...

This is silly talk... 

Completely agree.  If you remember at the time it looked like his career was over those two years with the raiders.  Then he hooked up with Brady and had a great 3 year stretch.  In either case, Brady won before Moss and after Moss.  Belichick lost before Brady and lost after Brady.  

[Hardcore troubadour 12,764]

2 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Brady in a dome with marvin and wayne and edge for years together?  

Hmmm.  Not sure.  

 

2 hours ago, listen2me 23 said:

Brady in a dome with marvin and wayne and edge for years together?  

Hmmm.  Not sure.  

Well, Dungy didn’t get too many rings out of all that and Manning.  I bet BB would have.