Texas continues adding razor wire along border

[RLLD 4,180]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Well that’s what most experts believe. 
 

And it’s not really changing the conversation. It’s pointing out, if you regard undocumented immigrants as a problem (I don’t but most people do) then you’re not really addressing it by setting up razor wire in Texas. 

AA's in Chicago are decrying that in just a generation or two these immigrants will render the AA irrelevant.  Are they being racist?

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

1 minute ago, RLLD said:

I agree that the assumption they will automatically be voting Democrat is flawed, but modern liberalism is racism.....and due to their pigmentation Democrats make that assumption.

These people are not ONLY coming from south and central america, they are from all over the world now....and some of those cultures do not share our values at all, at least those from the Americas have something near to it

I don’t buy into this “they don’t share our values” argument. The biggest indicator that this is not so is how much they want to come here, They risk their lives to be here. 

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

Just now, RLLD said:

AA's in Chicago are decrying that in just a generation or two these immigrants will render the AA irrelevant.  Are they being racist?

Yes. It’s an ignorant, bigoted argument based on fear. 

[Horseman 2,431]

16 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Are you aware that the majority of undocumented immigrants don’t come across our southern border at all? They come here legally and simply overstay their visas. (incidentally this is also how the vast majority of fentanyl gets here too.) 

The vast majority of fentanyl gets here legally!

Can't tell if you're lying this time or just repeating your brain washed talking points, but, you realize they publish actual reports with actual numbers don't you?

2022:

6.8 million visas issued.  96% confirmed left the country on time.  That leaves 270K that overstayed their visa.

vs.

2.76 million southern boarder crossings.

You're only off by a factor of 10.       Everyone just put this blowhard on ignore already.  

[Baker Boy 1,694]

3 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

So trump built the wall but Biden welded the gates open?

Biden stopped building the wall after he was inaugurated.

[RLLD 4,180]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t buy into this “they don’t share our values” argument. The biggest indicator that this is not so is how much they want to come here, They risk their lives to be here. 

Well, I have been to these areas in the middle east and africa where they are coming from.  I assure you.....they do not share our values, and perhaps more pointedly....they do not share liberal values at all.

I suggest you and yours be careful, I dont think you really understand people.....and what they will do....

[Mike Hunt 266]

9 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure, because they don’t respect the law. 

 

So you believe all federal laws on immigration should be respected and enforced?

Or would you rather pick and choose?

[RLLD 4,180]

Just now, The Real timschochet said:

Yes. It’s an ignorant, bigoted argument based on fear. 

According to you....because you disagree with them.

I understand their concern.  They are not incorrect.  Yes, eventually Democrats will stop pandering to them, and focus more on the Hispanic vote. There is no question that this will transpire.

[Ron_Artest 1,217]

Just now, Baker Boy said:

Biden stopped building the wall after he was inaugurated.

Trump couldn't build the wall because Mitch McConnell stopped him I was told

You MAGAturds can't get your stories straight.

[Engorgeous George 2,236]

11 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well that’s what most experts believe. 
 

And it’s not really changing the conversation. It’s pointing out, if you regard undocumented immigrants as a problem (I don’t but most people do) then you’re not really addressing it by setting up razor wire in Texas. 

Perhaps you could point me to those experts.  When I went to look for information I found a government report.  It showed the number of overstays in one year.  You can find other years of the report.  The number of overstays documented by the government are in the range of 600,000 to 700,000.  The border crossings are estimated at two to three times that rate and more.  Also, many of the overstays get new documentation or leave, it literally is often just an overstay, not a seeking of a new home.  So I don't share your viewpoint but I am willing to review your information.

 

Oh, here is the document i reviewed...

 

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2021-12/CBP%20-%20FY%202020%20Entry%20Exit%20Overstay%20Report_0.pdf

 

I hope a DHS document is a fair starting point.

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

2 minutes ago, Horseman said:

The vast majority of fentanyl gets here legally!

Can't tell if you're lying this time or just repeating your brain washed talking points, but, you realize they publish actual reports with actual numbers don't you?

2022:

6.8 million visas issued.  96% confirmed left the country on time.  That leaves 270K that overstayed their visa.

vs.

2.76 million boarder crossings.

You're only off by a factor of 10.       Everyone just put this blowhard on ignore already.  

Your numbers are correct but represent only recent years. What I wrote is true over the last several decades. 
And according to law enforcement fentanyl is mostly brought into this country by legal citizens through legal points of entry. 

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

4 minutes ago, RLLD said:

According to you....because you disagree with them.

I understand their concern.  They are not incorrect.  Yes, eventually Democrats will stop pandering to them, and focus more on the Hispanic vote. There is no question that this will transpire.

Well you asked for my opinion. 

[Ron_Artest 1,217]

So in this thread alone we heard that Trump couldn't build a wall because the uniparty stopped him, then he did build the wall but Biden welded the gates open, but then he built half a wall and Biden stopped building any more wall. 

Somehow another 4 years of trump will fix everything.

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

3 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Perhaps you could point me to those experts.  When I went to look for information I found a government report.  It showed the number of overstays in one year.  You can find other years of the report.  the number of overstays documented by the government are in the range of 600,000 to 700,000.  The border crossings are estimated at two to three times that rfate and more.  Also, many of the overstays get new documentaion or leaave, it literally is often just an overstqay, not a seeking of a new home.  So i don't share your viewpoint but I am willing to review your information.

 

Oh, here is the document i reviewed...

 

https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/files/2021-12/CBP%20-%20FY%202020%20Entry%20Exit%20Overstay%20Report_0.pdf

 

I hope a DHS document is a far starting point.

This is from 2019: 

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings

It was the basis of my assertion. But I concede that, based on what you and @Horseman have posted, those facts have changed recently. 

[RLLD 4,180]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Well you asked for my opinion. 

And I appreciate your position and opinion.  I am hopeful to present more view points to entice some reconsideration of some of these things you hold to be true.

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

I will concede the following: 

1. 2.6 million border encounters in a single year is unsustainable, even for me who is pretty damn liberal on this issue. 

2. Biden and the Democrats haven’t done enough to address this problem. 
 

I remain opposed to what the Republicans are proposing. But I agree we need to do something. 

[Engorgeous George 2,236]

9 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This is from 2019: 

https://www.npr.org/2019/01/16/686056668/for-seventh-consecutive-year-visa-overstays-exceeded-illegal-border-crossings

It was the basis of my assertion. But I concede that, based on what you and @Horseman have posted, those facts have changed recently. 

While I enjoy NPR I am going to have to call bullshit. If your source of the majority of experts is one NPR article which does not show its research I am going to again say how absolutely full of feces you are.

[Horseman 2,431]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Your numbers are correct but represent only recent years. What I wrote is true over the last several decades. 
And according to law enforcement fentanyl is mostly brought into this country by legal citizens through legal points of entry. 

Nobody is talking about the mesolithic period dumbass.  We're talking about the boarder crisis that started on January 20th 2021.  

Seriously go fok a tree with your idiot brain logic.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,286]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Your numbers are correct but represent only recent years. What I wrote is true over the last several decades. 
And according to law enforcement fentanyl is mostly brought into this country by legal citizens through legal points of entry. 

oh did you mean to admit Biden was the problem?

also maybe just maybe if border patrol was able to do its job, fentanyl would be reduced

[Engorgeous George 2,236]

Tim, I always enjoy your "Most Experts" and "Polls reveal" arguments.  What you mean is whatever article you have read from a biased source and whatever push poll showed up in your feeds.  Your arguments are commonly and repeatedly disassembled and found to be horse apples upon the slightest examination. 

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

1 minute ago, RaiderHaters Revenge said:

oh did you mean to admit Biden was the problem?

also maybe just maybe if border patrol was able to do its job, fentanyl would be reduced

Simple logic suggests that if (a) the statistics on undocumented immigration were fairly steady for decades prior to 2021 and (b) all Biden did was reverse  some of Trump’s actions but not all then this crisis has little to do with Biden vs Trump. Again, we need to focus on why so many folks are coming here at the present time. What is happening in their home countries that is producing such a large migration of people? What should we do, if anything, to try and mitigate that? These are the issues we should be addressing IMO. 

[Horseman 2,431]

30 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

So in this thread alone we heard that Trump couldn't build a wall because the uniparty stopped him, then he did build the wall but Biden welded the gates open, but then he built half a wall and Biden stopped building any more wall. 

Somehow another 4 years of trump will fix everything.

The simple answer to your midget brain question is to compare the boarder crossing numbers under Trump policy.

Your strawman pointing to differing opinions in this thread is pointless.

The facts are 5 billion was appropriated by congress with another 10 billion taken from the military budget.  Plan was for 738 miles at 20 million per mile.  455 miles were completed before Biden took office and paused all contracts.  Biden announced late last year the they plan to restart some of those contracts, but, to my knowledge that hasn't happened.

[TheNewGirl 1,422]

5 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Tim, I always enjoy your "Most Experts" and "Polls reveal" arguments.  What you mean is whatever article you have read from a biased source and whatever push poll showed up in your feeds.  Your arguments are commonly and repeatedly disassembled and found to be horse apples upon the slightest examination. 

He's the biggest hypocrite on this board. It's ridiculous. 

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

4 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Tim, I always enjoy your "Most Experts" and "Polls reveal" arguments.  What you mean is whatever article you have read from a biased source and whatever push poll showed up in your feeds.  Your arguments are commonly and repeatedly disassembled and found to be horse apples upon the slightest examination. 

Except you didn’t. Simply pointing out you don’t trust NPR doesn’t repudiate the facts they offered. The point that most undocumented immigration doesn’t come from our southern border is one that has been true for decades; I simply posted  one article among dozens that make the same case. If it’s not true currently that’s a new thing and may not be a permanent change either. 

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

1 minute ago, TheNewGirl said:

He's the biggest hypocrite on this board. It's ridiculous. 

How am I a hypocrite? Please explain. 

[Engorgeous George 2,236]

The Tims of the world never recognize the error of their ways until it is too late.  if Tim was on the Titanic his panic would have had him in a lifeboat ahead of many women and children.  Once lowered into the water his guilt would have driven him to urge the boat, already overfull and in danger of swamping, to row in to pick up survivors.  Cooler heads would argue no, don't row in.  The panicked will swamp us and we will all die.  We are already overfull.  We can row near them and throw them our life preservers which we do not absolutely need since we are in this lifeboat, but let's not make the mistake of joining them with no rational hope of saving even one.  Yes Tim would carry on and on and might even get his boat to go in among the panicked.  As everyone in his boat drowns from being swamped only then would it occur to him that he might have listened to the real experts, not folks like himself who presume they are experts.

[Horseman 2,431]

15 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Tim, I always enjoy your "Most Experts" and "Polls reveal" arguments.  What you mean is whatever article you have read from a biased source and whatever push poll showed up in your feeds.  Your arguments are commonly and repeatedly disassembled and found to be horse apples upon the slightest examination. 

[Engorgeous George 2,236]

8 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Except you didn’t. Simply pointing out you don’t trust NPR doesn’t repudiate the facts they offered. The point that most undocumented immigration doesn’t come from our southern border is one that has been true for decades; I simply posted  one article among dozens that make the same case. If it’s not true currently that’s a new thing and may not be a permanent change either. 

I trust NPR when they reveal their research, not in an unsupported opinion piece based on the work of others, work which is not shown.  I did not repudiate their facts since they showed no facts, they just stated opinion as if it were fact.  That is the whole point.  You do not differentiate fact from opinion.

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

The Tims of the world never recognize the error of their ways until it is too late.  if Tim was on the Titanic his panic would have had him in a lifeboat ahead of many women and children.  Once lowered into the water his guilt would have driven him to urge the boat, already overfull and in danger of swamping, to row in to pick up survivors.  Cooler heads would argue no, don't row in.  The panicked will swamp us and we will all die.  We are already overfull.  We can row near them and throw them our life preservers which we do not absolutely need since we are in this lifeboat, but let's not make the mistake of joining them with no rational hope of saving even one.  Yes Tim would carry on and on and might even get his boat to go in among the panicked.  As everyone in his boat drowns from being swamped only then would it occur to him that he might have listened to the real experts, not folks like himself who presume they are experts.

Damn. Now I’m killing people on the Titanic? 

Your metaphor represents a vital conceptual difference between you and me on this issue perhaps. I don’t perceive the United States as a lifeboat. Yes these people coming as fast as they are is a crisis. But they’re not going to drown us. 

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

6 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

 if Tim was on the Titanic his panic would have had him in a lifeboat ahead of many women and children.  

Also this sentence is rather mean spirited and unworthy of you. And while I’ve never been in such a situation I would like to think it’s not true. 

[Horseman 2,431]

If Tim had any credibility left he doesn't any more after that asss kicking.  He should crawl away and never post again imo.  And take gutterboy with you.

[The Real timschochet 6,543]

1 minute ago, Horseman said:

If Tim had any credibility left he doesn't any more after that asss kicking.  He should crawl away and never post again imo.  And take gutterboy with you.

We live in different realities apparently. 

[Ron_Artest 1,217]

22 minutes ago, Horseman said:

The simple answer to your midget brain question is to compare the boarder crossing numbers under Trump policy.

Your strawman pointing to differing opinions in this thread is pointless.

The facts are 5 billion was appropriated by congress with another 10 billion taken from the military budget.  Plan was for 738 miles at 20 million per mile.  455 miles were completed before Biden took office and paused all contracts.  Biden announced late last year the they plan to restart some of those contracts, but, to my knowledge that hasn't happened.

Backtracks on the welding open of the gates

And your knowledge is shite, Biden restarted the wall https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-administration-border-wall-construction-south-texas/

[BuckSwope 654]

4 hours ago, RLLD said:

Respect for law seems to be in short supply, notably given their move is to compensate for prior ignoring of law

There's always an excuse to justify doing what you want.    I guess we are at a point now where we only respect SC's decisions when they overturn RvW and other things people agree with.   

[RLLD 4,180]

Just now, BuckSwope said:

There's always an excuse to justify doing what you want.    I guess we are at a point now where we only respect SC's decisions when they overturn RvW and other things people agree with.   

Agree.  People will naturally view the world from the prism of their position in the world. 

[BuckSwope 654]

Just now, RLLD said:

Agree.  People will naturally view the world from the prism of their position in the world. 

That's not the same thing as only respecting laws and rulings when you agree with them as I was pointing out.    I think it's odd that people on the "law and order" right would cheer on ignoring SC rulings.  

[RLLD 4,180]

Just now, BuckSwope said:

That's not the same thing as only respecting laws and rulings when you agree with them as I was pointing out.    I think it's odd that people on the "law and order" right would cheer on ignoring SC rulings.  

I do not find it odd at all.  I expect that.

If people get their way, they are happy.  If they do not get their way, then the system is broken.....

This is how people think today.

[squistion 2,040]

 

[BuckSwope 654]

Just now, RLLD said:

I do not find it odd at all.  I expect that.

If people get their way, they are happy.  If they do not get their way, then the system is broken.....

This is how people think today.

Maybe I need to be more clear.   We both seem to expect it, but when I read your post I get the impression you are OK with it.  I am not.    

[Gepetto 1,328]

3 hours ago, squistion said:

Then why didn't Trump build it? That was one of his major campaign promises ("And Mexico will pay for it" )

He ran out of time when he didn’t get reelected. We’re going to resolve that. Why didn’t Biden finish it?