Trump to eliminate taxes on tips

[Mark Davis 339]

14 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

You did the math under the assumption that a person actually pays 38% of their income in federal taxes. If you’re really a CPA, you know that is absolutely false — so much so that it proves bad faith on your part  

I walked through an incremental scenario that was the way it would be treated.  You seem to be wanting to mix an effective discussion in there which can be difficult.  If you want to have an "effective" rate discussion, it would require a huge amount of context that probably would be too confusing to type out here.  Things like how much total income do they have, how much is capital gains and are they short term or long term, how much depreciation do they have, do they have loss carryforwards, are they self-employed and have self employment taxes, etc.  All those would be on a taxpayer specific basis and is one of the reasons people often argue for a flat tax. 

[Mark Davis 339]

8 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

Well Mark, you know it’s impossible to actually be fully taxed at the top bracket because all income leading up to that bracket is taxed at correspondingly lower rates. That’s 101 on income taxes. So right off the bat you’re full of sh1t.

And yeah, most people who make more than several hundred thousand dollars are getting a vast majority of their income from capital gains, real estate etc and not hourly wages, obviously. It’s not like Donald Trump invented that tax racket 

You are completely full of it, bud

Good God man.  Where did I ever state that people didn't pay at the rates leading up to 38% as well?  I've tried to have a respectful discussion but you're making it difficult.  I understand the difference between effective and incremental, you have been interchanging your arguments between the two.  I'm not sure if you don't understand or you're intentionally changing them to try to "win". 

Trump isn't even relevant to any of it other than you seem to believe all high earners are doing whatever it is that you claim to know Trump is doing as well.  I don't even really know what he's doing on his return, but if you do, that's great.  He's still just one person and wouldn't be representative of the overall group.

[BeachGuy23 642]

For folks with really high incomes > $1M aren't there a decent amount of tax shelters available for them to use?

So that they would pay decently less than the 37% highest rate?  Mega backdoor roth, 2nd homes, depreciation, home offices, etc?

Using the example of a partner in a law firm whose income is derived mostly from their salary and who makes $1M.  What would you typically see as the effective tax rate that person pays on their $1M salary, assuming use of regular tax shelters?

 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

6 minutes ago, Mark Davis said:

Good God man.  Where did I ever state that people didn't pay at the rates leading up to 38% as well?  I've tried to have a respectful discussion but you're making it difficult.  I understand the difference between effective and incremental, you have been interchanging your arguments between the two.  I'm not sure if you don't understand or you're intentionally changing them to try to "win". 

Trump isn't even relevant to any of it other than you seem to believe all high earners are doing whatever it is that you claim to know Trump is doing as well.  I don't even really know what he's doing on his return, but if you do, that's great.  He's still just one person and wouldn't be representative of the overall group.

I’m not mixing anything up. I was, and always have been, talking about what people actually pay. You are the one trying to confuse the issue, and as always, the Trumpers buy it.

Bottom line, your math on what a person pays after income taxes and estate tax is completely misrepresented. You know full well that most super rich people do not pay anywhere near 38%, just like Trump. Romney paid 14%. Warren Buffet paid 0.1%. Sure there’s plenty of wiggle room between 0.1%, 4.1% and 14% but, bottom line, ain’t none of em paying anywhere near 38%.

[Mark Davis 339]

4 minutes ago, IGotWorms said:

I’m not mixing anything up. I was, and always have been, talking about what people actually pay. You are the one trying to confuse the issue, and as always, the Trumpers buy it.

Bottom line, your math on what a person pays after income taxes and estate tax is completely misrepresented. You know full well that most super rich people do not pay anywhere near 38%, just like Trump. Romney paid 14%. Warren Buffet paid 0.1%. Sure there’s plenty of wiggle room between 0.1%, 4.1% and 14% but, bottom line, ain’t none of em paying anywhere near 38%.

38% is the incremental rate. For the record it’s not a rate I claimed for me, even though you stated that as well. The example I gave shows how a dollar would be taxed at that rate and subsequent estate tax rate. You chose to attack it using effective rates, something totally different.  I’m not sure how you’d do an example without using incremental rates. Effective rates are a different discussion that require huge amounts of context and other data points that will be different for each taxpayer. Either way, we are way off from where this started on the estate tax and yes I’ll stick to those numbers. But I’ll leave it here as its pointless at this point and Trump is in every response etc. 

[IGotWorms 4,057]

Just now, Mark Davis said:

38% is the incremental rate. For the record it’s not a rate I claimed for me, even though you stated that as well. The example I gave shows how a dollar would be taxed at that rate and subsequent estate tax rate. You chose to attack it using effective rates, something totally different.  I’m not sure how you’d do an example without using incremental rates. Effective rates are a different discussion that require huge amounts of context and other data points that will be different for each taxpayer. Either way, we are way off from where this started on the estate tax and yes I’ll stick to those numbers. But I’ll leave it here as its pointless at this point and Trump is in every response etc. 

“Incremental” tax rates are pointless since you well know that nobody actually pays that highest rate, yet alone the mega wealthy who pay very reduced or no effective rate at all.

So when you’re saying it’s not fair to tax estates because people already paid 38% federal income tax rates on it, that’s just false.

Anyway, the point is those people are dead so why not tax it again, but if we’re going to get into actual numbers then at least use real ones.

[seafoam1 2,799]

Just now, IGotWorms said:

“Incremental” tax rates are pointless since you well know that nobody actually pays that highest rate, yet alone the mega wealthy who pay very reduced or no effective rate at all.

So when you’re saying it’s not fair to tax estates because people already paid 38% federal income tax rates on it, that’s just false.

Anyway, the point is those people are dead so why not tax it again, but if we’re going to get into actual numbers then at least use real ones.

This is really dumb. 

[jerryskids 6,559]

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

My comment would also apply to dishwashers, hostesses etc that also get tips.

I'm not sure how they get paid in different states if they also share in the tip pool.  I would be surprised if they get "regular" minimum wage plus part of the tips.

I do know that both my daughters started as hostesses in HS to make extra money and moved to waitressing when given the opportunity because it paid more.  They were Denny's and similar, not high-end restaurants.

[TimHauck 2,614]

2 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I'm not sure how they get paid in different states if they also share in the tip pool.  I would be surprised if they get "regular" minimum wage plus part of the tips.

I do know that both my daughters started as hostesses in HS to make extra money and moved to waitressing when given the opportunity because it paid more.  They were Denny's and similar, not high-end restaurants.

I could be wrong but I thought busboys/hostesses made at least the “regular” minimum wage.  But being a server still pays more overall due to the tips.

I’m no expert on minimum wages for servers, do any/many states have a much higher minimum wage than federally?  Maybe those could get reduced.

[jerryskids 6,559]

5 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I could be wrong but I thought busboys/hostesses made at least the “regular” minimum wage.  But being a server still pays more overall due to the tips.

I’m no expert on minimum wages for servers, do any/many states have a much higher minimum wage than federally?  Maybe those could get reduced.

@edjrrecently mentioned MA as having a higher min wage for servers.

Here is a good link, looks like lots of states have higher mins.  The federal min is $2.13.  The higher mins are called "tipped minimum wages" though and can include a max of $5.12 in tips against that wage (so practically, subtract it from the number, maybe?).

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/finance/tipped-minimum-wage

That all being said, I'd be surprised if any states would go through the process of REDUCING minimum wage.  That would be a PR disaster.

[Mark Davis 339]

3 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

This is really dumb. 

That guy knew more than any PhD I had in grad school or any person I've ever met in my business career.

[TimHauck 2,614]

Taking the pandering another step further 

 

 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

6 hours ago, TimHauck said:

Taking the pandering another step further 

 

 

Zero taxes for the rich, and double the price of everything everyone buys.

What a psychopath.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,930]

That’s crazy. Not as crazy as an open border in the middle of a pandemic though.   

[Maximum Overkill 1,739]

 

 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,930]

6 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

 

 

Alpha 

[GutterBoy 2,898]

5 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Alpha 

Imagine being a 60 year old man calling an 80 year old man an alpha for calling other people names.

[seafoam1 2,799]

6 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

 

 

While biden is telling tales of kids rubbing his legs....

Imagine being a liberal praising that old potato joe. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,930]

8 minutes ago, GutterBoy said:

Imagine being a 60 year old man calling an 80 year old man an alpha for calling other people names.

Imagine being bothered by it. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,739]

55 minutes ago, seafoam1 said:

While biden is telling tales of kids rubbing his legs....

Imagine being a liberal praising that old potato joe. 

Haha. Biden is too busy sniffing Children to know what's what.