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Caleb Williams is the real deal.

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3 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I can see his built in talent.  I already questioned if a golden boy who got by on sheer talent and probably grew up with endless yes men would pan out.  But after what has come to light on him, it is all about his ego and laziness.  Ben Johnson wont put up with it.  If he drops the ego and manufactures a good work ethic, he could be fine.  Bears fans certainly wont have the "coaches are bad" excuse this time around.  

but also the notion that the #1 overall pick, ahead of Jayden Daniels might be "just fine" if he can clean up areas where he "looked clueless" ....  😧

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1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

but also the notion that the #1 overall pick, ahead of Jayden Daniels might be "just fine" if he can clean up areas where he "looked clueless" ....  😧

From the 3 part article the former scouts in the room said the draft process of the Bears selecting their franchise QB at #1 was not a process at all.  Poles basically trashed all the other QBs and shot down any scout that even tried to have a decent discussion on the QB class.  

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40 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Caleb wasnt horrendous.   But was not good either.   I question whether some of you know what you are watching.   

Again taking too long to make a read.  Again not seeing wide open guys.  Again overthrowing wide open guys that he does see.  

I said he looked “decent.” He made a handful of impressive throws and missed some easy ones. Extended a few plays with his legs. The Bears got nothing out of their running game and the OL got manhandled in the 2nd half.

The lack of a running game and inability to stop Minny at all in Q4 were bigger factors in the loss than Caleb IMO.

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27 minutes ago, Hawkeye21 said:

Caleb made some amazing plays and looked great at some points of the game.  At other points he looked clueless and threw some terrible passes.  If he can clean things up and improve each week, he'll be fine.  The OL looked better, although the false starts were ridiculous.

The officiating against the Bears was atrocious.  There were a couple calls that directly led to the Bears losing the game.

Even with a whole new coaching staff, the lopsided officialting, missing their 2 best DBs in Johnson and Gordon, going against a team that won 14 games last year that had like the #1 or 2 rushing defense, they held their own. I didn't expect a win really. Williams improved a ton from what he was doing last year. If he would have made 2 or 3 of the throws that I think he should have made, or the rushing game did anything remotely decent at all, the outcome would have been completely different in that game. Johnson will drill the hell out of Williams' feet placement when throwing and hopefully it sinks in for him. 

 

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Say what you will about Caleb, but he scored more fantasy points than Jayden Daniels has all season.

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57 minutes ago, MDC said:

I said he looked “decent.” He made a handful of impressive throws and missed some easy ones. Extended a few plays with his legs. The Bears got nothing out of their running game and the OL got manhandled in the 2nd half.

The lack of a running game and inability to stop Minny at all in Q4 were bigger factors in the loss than Caleb IMO.

Good post.  I thought he very much looked the part.  That rifle to Rome while running out of bounds was hella impressive.  Like you said, extended some plays with legs, ran on others, generally looked like he was looking to throw but could outrun or run over people (on that first TD, the DB looked like he didn't want to take on Caleb IMO).  

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1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

but also the notion that the #1 overall pick, ahead of Jayden Daniels might be "just fine" if he can clean up areas where he "looked clueless" ....  😧

The next time whitetard says anything remotely  intelligent will be a major first accomplishment for the old man. 

Keep trying though. You can't bottom out any worse than you already have in life. :thumbsup:

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3 hours ago, MDC said:

I said he looked “decent.” He made a handful of impressive throws and missed some easy ones. Extended a few plays with his legs. The Bears got nothing out of their running game and the OL got manhandled in the 2nd half.

24 Fantasy Points 🏆 

Not bad for being drafted as a QB2

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1 hour ago, Maximum Overkill said:

24 Fantasy Points 🏆 

Not bad for being drafted as a QB2

This really isn’t the time to make the fantasy argument. It’s never really the time but certainly not this week when the last franchise QB the bears were excited about scored higher. Daniel Jones scored higher. 

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1 minute ago, WhiteWonder said:

This really isn’t the time to make the fantasy argument. It’s never really the time but certainly not this week when the last franchise QB the bears were excited about scored higher. Daniel Jones scored higher. 

This is the week. We've been waiting for a Big fantasy outing for over a year now. There were some very positive takeaways from that game 

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6 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

This is the week. We've been waiting for a Big fantasy outing for over a year now. There were some very positive takeaways from that game 

I drafted CW as my “upside” backup. As bad as last year was, he threw for 3500 and 20 TDs and added 500 on the ground without scoring a single TD. I figured you bump him up to 3800 and 24 passing plus maybe 4-5 TDs and he’s a low end QB1 that cost nothing.

From a fantasy perspective I think last night was encouraging. 

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8 minutes ago, MDC said:

I drafted CW as my “upside” backup. As bad as last year was, he threw for 3500 and 20 TDs and added 500 on the ground without scoring a single TD. I figured you bump him up to 3800 and 24 passing plus maybe 4-5 TDs and he’s a low end QB1 that cost nothing.

From a fantasy perspective I think last night was encouraging. 

He's the perfect QB2. His rushing ability gives him a solid floor and a high ceiling. That's exactly what you want in a QB2. Wheels up with QB1 upside. 

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19 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

This is the week. We've been waiting for a Big fantasy outing for over a year now. There were some very positive takeaways from that game 

But this is a real life, franchise QB thread. 
I certainly don’t think Justin fields is the jets franchise QB. But that didn’t stop me from drafting him in every league. His fantasy numbers are somewhat irrelevant to this topic.

he also had at least 3 such fantasy weeks as a rookie 

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There will be lots of highlights with this guy.  

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1 hour ago, WhiteWonder said:

But this is a real life, franchise QB thread. 

I couldn't care less if he's good in real life, I care about Fantasy points. 

He's not as horrible in real life as people are making him out to be. It's game 1 of year 2, give the kid a chance. 

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5 hours ago, Maximum Overkill said:

I couldn't care less if he's good in real life, I care about Fantasy points. 

He's not as horrible in real life as people are making him out to be. It's game 1 of year 2, give the kid a chance. 

In 18 games played in the NFL, he's already had  3 head coaches, and 4 offensive coordinators.

 

 

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5 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

In 18 games played in the NFL, he's already had  3 head coaches, and 4 offensive coordinators.

 

 

Exactly. At this point you just hope to see steady improvement. My biggest concern is that he's not seeing the field well at all. He missed a ton of big plays and wide open WRs. 

The talent is there for sure, he's gotta start piecing it together now. 

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6 hours ago, seafoam1 said:

In 18 games played in the NFL, he's already had  3 head coaches, and 4 offensive coordinators.

 

 

Yet Bears fans thought Poles was a guru.  

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1 hour ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Exactly. At this point you just hope to see steady improvement. My biggest concern is that he's not seeing the field well at all. He missed a ton of big plays and wide open WRs. 

The talent is there for sure, he's gotta start piecing it together now. 

I dont think anyone questions his pure talent.  Its fairly easy to see.  A twitchy arm and has some scrambling ability.  But he was the #1 pick and said to be generational.   So thats expected.  No one is questioning his tools.  I think his brain and ego are off.  They say hes dyslexic and Poles didnt bother telling the coaches last season.  

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2 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

I dont think anyone questions his pure talent.  Its fairly easy to see.  A twitchy arm and has some scrambling ability.  But he was the #1 pick and said to be generational.   So thats expected.  No one is question his tools.  I think his brain and ego are off.  They say hes dyslexic and Poles didnt bother telling the coaches last season.  

We agree. It's way too early to say he's a bust. It's ridiculous for anyone to make that claim after the mess he was dealt last season 

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Just now, Maximum Overkill said:

We agree. It's way too early to say he's a bust. It's ridiculous for anyone to make that claim after the mess he was dealt last season 

Im ripping Caleb but no im not calling him a bust this early in his career.  Daniels did step in with less talent around him.and took the Skins furthest theyve been since 1991.  Nix took Broncos to playoffs.  JJ in his first career start beat Caleb at his place.  

Everything that has been said indicates Caleb was thr mess last season.  A franchise QB who blew off protection meetings, thought he knew everything, showed no respect, didnt understand plays, took too long in the huddle.  I think it was dumb to keep Flus as HC a defensive guy when taking a QB 1 overall.  Not sure what Poles was thinking.  But by all indications, Caleb's ego was the issue last year.  

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4 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Im ripping Caleb but no im not calling him a bust this early in his career.  Daniels did step in with less talent around him.and took the Skins furthest theyve been since 1991.  Nix took Broncos to playoffs.  JJ in his first career start beat Caleb at his place.  

Everything that has been said indicates Caleb was thr mess last season.  A franchise QB who blew off protection meetings, thought he knew everything, showed no respect, didnt understand plays, took too long in the huddle.  I think it was dumb to keep Flus as HC a defensive guy when taking a QB 1 overall.  Not sure what Poles was thinking.  But by all indications, Caleb's ego was the issue last year.  

Agree, and I think the ego part is just a product of being young and stupid, it will work itself out, same for Sheduer. 

Caleb showed some good stuff on Monday night but not all was great. I'm counting this as his rookie season but I need to see incremental improvement. Nobody has been a bigger Caleb supporter than I have but no more excuses, it's time for improvement. 

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47 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Yet Bears fans thought Poles was a guru.  

I've never heard one Chicago Bears fan call Poles a guru. That includes local sports radio show hosts. In fact, when he brought back eberflus, I heard nothing but disdain for the guy from day one. 

 

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1 hour ago, listen2me 23 said:

Im ripping Caleb but no im not calling him a bust this early in his career.  Daniels did step in with less talent around him.and took the Skins furthest theyve been since 1991.  Nix took Broncos to playoffs.  JJ in his first career start beat Caleb at his place.  

Fwiw the Vikes actually got a running game going and only asked JJ to throw the ball 20 times vs. 35 for Williams. And QBs who are immediately successful are outliers. Drake Maye wasn’t much more productive than Caleb last year but nobody is calling him a bust yet.

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6 minutes ago, MDC said:

Fwiw the Vikes actually got a running game going and only asked JJ to throw the ball 20 times vs. 35 for Williams. And QBs who are immediately successful are outliers. Drake Maye wasn’t much more productive than Caleb last year but nobody is calling him a bust yet.

Drake Maye had the worst line in the league. Yet completed 66.6% of passes and got it out on time.  He had to. A lame duck head coach himself.  And basically zero good weapons.  1-0 vs Caleb with what was a worse team.  

Also wasnt said to be a generational QB.  

I acknowledge the point you make here.  But its not apples to apples.  Perhaps Maye should be getting more heat, I can agree there.    But a guy inquiring about a stake in the franchise that deafts him, who no shows for pre draft visits, who is said to be generational....will typically get heat quicker than someone like Maye.  

For the record, as I stated, I myself am not calling Caleb a bust.  Its too early to label any of these guys a bust.  

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Williams has the talent but the mental makeup is not there yet.  Any kind of heat and Williams gets the zoomies too fast.

If I had to choose right now between Williams and Daniels for a franchise I would take Daniels for sure. 

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8 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Drake Maye had the worst line in the league. Yet completed 66.6% of passes and got it out on time.  He had to. A lame duck head coach himself.  And basically zero good weapons.  1-0 vs Caleb with what was a worse team.  

Also wasnt said to be a generational QB.  

I acknowledge the point you make here.  But its not apples to apples.  Perhaps Maye should be getting more heat, I can agree there.    But a guy inquiring about a stake in the franchise that deafts him, who no shows for pre draft visits, who is said to be generational....will typically get heat quicker than someone like Maye.  

For the record, as I stated, I myself am not calling Caleb a bust.  Its too early to label any of these guys a bust.  

I’m sure Chicago’s OL ranked near the bottom of the league last year and CW completed 62.5% of his passes with more TDs and roughly the same rating. Also, head to head QB W/L is about as meaningless a stat as there is.

Seems like you have a personal dislike for CW which is fine. Just saying, his rookie year wasn’t all that unusual even for QBs who go on to have a lot of success. This year will sort of tell the tale on him.

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13 minutes ago, MDC said:

I’m sure Chicago’s OL ranked near the bottom of the league last year and CW completed 62.5% of his passes with more TDs and roughly the same rating. Also, head to head QB W/L is about as meaningless a stat as there is.

Seems like you have a personal dislike for CW which is fine. Just saying, his rookie year wasn’t all that unusual even for QBs who go on to have a lot of success. This year will sort of tell the tale on him.

Of course I do he is a Bears QB and doesnt come across as likable.   

After reading that 3 part series, it is quite clear he has a big ego and didnt care to prepare like a generational franchise #1 QB should.  Threw everyone else under the bus while literally skipping protection meetings and lift sessions.   

They signed his buddy who played at USC....who had like 4 catches at USC.  Didnt belong in the NFL.  Wasnt one of like 400 undrafted pick ups.  And took up a PS spot all year.....just to appease Caleb.  

Soon he will have no excuse.  He has DJ Moore a #1 on severla teams.   Top 10 pick Odunze.  Had Keenan Allen now has a 2nd round pick who many had as a qst rounder in Burden.  A vet like Kmet now paired with a top 10 pick  TE in Loveland.  And the hottest coaching hire to become available in some years.  Stacked to the gills. 

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15 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Soon he will have no excuse

I think we have to give him a full season with Johnson before we make any assumptions. In all fairness to Caleb, he's had 7 different coaches already. That's almost unheard of. 

My level of concern is a 3 right now.

Now, if we're still discuss this Week 15 then I may pull the alarm. 

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20 minutes ago, listen2me 23 said:

Of course I do he is a Bears QB and doesnt come across as likable.   

After reading that 3 part series, it is quite clear he has a big ego and didnt care to prepare like a generational franchise #1 QB should.  Threw everyone else under the bus while literally skipping protection meetings and lift sessions.   

They signed his buddy who played at USC....who had like 4 catches at USC.  Didnt belong in the NFL.  Wasnt one of like 400 undrafted pick ups.  And took up a PS spot all year.....just to appease Caleb.  

Soon he will have no excuse.  He has DJ Moore a #1 on severla teams.   Top 10 pick Odunze.  Had Keenan Allen now has a 2nd round pick who many had as a qst rounder in Burden.  A vet like Kmet now paired with a top 10 pick  TE in Loveland.  And the hottest coaching hire to become available in some years.  Stacked to the gills. 

I’m not a college football guy, didn’t watch that series and I’ve got no horse in this race other than fantasy relevance and my opinion on Caleb from watching the game. I saw the warts but also the upside, and I think some of your criticisms (head to head record against Maye? 🤦‍♂️) are kind of ridiculous.

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38 minutes ago, Mike Hunt said:

Williams has the talent but the mental makeup is not there yet.  Any kind of heat and Williams gets the zoomies too fast.

If I had to choose right now between Williams and Daniels for a franchise I would take Daniels for sure. 

100% agreement.

I'm wondering if McCarthy will end up being better than CW in the long run. He doesn't have the physical tools CW has but looks to have his head in the game.

If Ben Johnson is worth half the ink spilled gushing over him, he'll get CW straightened out. This is what I expect to happen. As a Vikings fan, I think Williams is going to be a giant PITA for a long time, and still believe he'll surpass the 4,000 yard mark this year.

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(Walder) Caleb Williams recorded a -13% completion percentage over expectation, per NFL Next Gen Stats.  A virtual tie with Bryce Young for the worst CPOE game of week 1.  

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9 minutes ago, Fnord said:

100% agreement.

I'm wondering if McCarthy will end up being better than CW in the long run. He doesn't have the physical tools CW has but looks to have his head in the game.

If Ben Johnson is worth half the ink spilled gushing over him, he'll get CW straightened out. This is what I expect to happen. As a Vikings fan, I think Williams is going to be a giant PITA for a long time, and still believe he'll surpass the 4,000 yard mark this year.

Ill stop referencing the 3 part series, no one will read it but its pretty damn bad.  

The thing here with Ben Johnson, is to do it he has to get Caleb to mature.  Perhaps Caleb will realize he cant treat Ben the same as the coaches last year.  Ben doesnt take any crap and was paid handsomely to be the coach.  So perhaps that in itself will change Caleb's mindset.  But its not just teaching Caleb how to QB.  Its a lot of will you take responsibility playing the most important position and prepare yourself like most any other top QB does.  

-they give pads with tape to take home and can tell how much it is used.  They said he hardly turned it on at all.

-Daniels has been using this VR tech for QB to work on processing faster since his final year in college. Poles mentioned they should get that for Caleb.  Ultimately they didnt because they figured he wouldnt use it.  

-(most voluntary) but as a franchise QB skipping protection meetings with the OL and coaches is not a way to be great.  They said he skipped several and just made up excuses why he did.  Tough to swallow when "his line was bad".  Seems like you should be there for each and every one.....as a franchise QB.  

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18 minutes ago, Fnord said:

100% agreement.

I'm wondering if McCarthy will end up being better than CW in the long run. He doesn't have the physical tools CW has but looks to have his head in the game.

If Ben Johnson is worth half the ink spilled gushing over him, he'll get CW straightened out. This is what I expect to happen. As a Vikings fan, I think Williams is going to be a giant PITA for a long time, and still believe he'll surpass the 4,000 yard mark this year.

Williams outplayed JJ in that game

 

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