Discussion of Concerns for Trump Presidency

[jerryskids 6,797]

14 hours ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Serious question for @jerryskids you've said before that keytruda saved your life.  A recent discovery by Big pharma.  How do you feel about trump and RFK wanting to dismantle the NIH and collapse funding for research that makes these drugs possible?  Remove protections for big pharma that make these vaccines and other drugs possible?  Dismantling the FDA?

As someone who's life was saved thanks to all these protections how could you in good conscience vote for the dismantling of it all?  Is this simply pulling up the ladder behind you are are you truly just ignorant about what you voted for?

This is Gutter, right?

This post seems like a false dichotomy -- without the NIH, Keytruda would never exist.  Keytruda was developed by private industry, not the NIH.  The NIH did some research which helped the developers target spectific cancers, tho:

Quote

Gregory Carven, Hans van Eenennaam, and Gradus Dulos are the inventors of Keytruda (pembrolizumab): 

• Gregory Carven: In 2016, Carven was named Inventor of the Year by the Intellectual Property Owners Foundation for his work on Keytruda while at Merck. He is currently the Vice President of Antibody Discovery and Protein Sciences at Scholar Rock. 
   
• Hans van Eenennaam: Van Eenennaam is currently the Executive Vice President at Aduro Biotech Europe. 
   
• Gradus Dulos: Dulos is currently the Chief Scientific Officer at Aduro Biotech Europe. 
   
  The Dutch scientists developed Keytruda at Organon, a biopharma company, in 2006. Merck acquired Organon in 2009 and won FDA approval for Keytruda in 2013. Keytruda is a cancer immunotherapy that helps the body's immune system fight cancer cells. It's used to treat a variety of advanced cancers, including melanoma and lung cancer.

Quote

While the NIH did not directly fund the development of Keytruda (pembrolizumab), their research played a significant role in understanding which patients would benefit most from this immunotherapy drug, particularly by identifying tumors with "mismatch repair" defects that were more likely to respond to Keytruda; this knowledge helped inform clinical trials and treatment strategies for the drug developed by Merck.

I would argue that, in the absence of the NIH, this research would still happen.  The immunotherapy industry, as you know, is a big money business. 

That being said, I've long advocated that the government should invest in pure research.  Private industry used to do a lot of it, but investors don't like such research because it isn't tied to a direct stream of revenue.  Instead, investors prefer development, which is less speculative.  As such, if such pure research is reduced, I will be disappointed.

 

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think RFK (or Trump) can cut spending on anything. That has to be an act of Congress, right? 

Who do you think controls congress, slappy?

[jerryskids 6,797]

I've also said here multiple times that I think vaccines are on the Mount Rushmore of greatest inventions (discoveries?) of all time.  

But that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement in the vaccine industrial complex.   

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

2 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Who do you think controls congress, slappy?

We are close to finding out. 
 

 

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

33 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

This is Gutter, right?

This post seems like a false dichotomy -- without the NIH, Keytruda would never exist.  Keytruda was developed by private industry, not the NIH.  The NIH did some research which helped the developers target spectific cancers, tho:

I would argue that, in the absence of the NIH, this research would still happen.  The immunotherapy industry, as you know, is a big money business. 

That being said, I've long advocated that the government should invest in pure research.  Private industry used to do a lot of it, but investors don't like such research because it isn't tied to a direct stream of revenue.  Instead, investors prefer development, which is less speculative.  As such, if such pure research is reduced, I will be disappointed.

 

You have a reading problem.  I know all about keytruda, I worked on keytruda when we called it PD1, I helped bring keytruda to market.  I never said keytruda wouldn't exist without the NIH.

What i said was drugs like keytruda, the drugs of tomorrow that might save lives, are brought into existence thanks to both public and private R&D.  8 years of limiting this has consequences.

If we gutted the NIH during this time who knows what would happen.

Anyway just wanted to highlight a case of you voting against your own self interest and the self interest of others that might potentially be in your situation in the future.

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

8 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I've also said here multiple times that I think vaccines are on the Mount Rushmore of greatest inventions (discoveries?) of all time.  

But that doesn't mean that there isn't room for improvement in the vaccine industrial complex.   

You voted for a guy that doesn't believe there are any safe vaccines and has said they caused autism.

[jerryskids 6,797]

3 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You voted for a guy that doesn't believe there are any safe vaccines and has said they caused autism.

I did?  

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

20 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I did?  

Sorry I just assumed you voted for trump

[Strike 5,543]

1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

I don’t think RFK (or Trump) can cut spending on anything. That has to be an act of Congress, right? 

His own article he posted yesterday said exactly this.  I pointed it out to him but like a lot of the lib trolls around here, facts don't seem to matter.

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

This is Gutter, right?

This post seems like a false dichotomy -- without the NIH, Keytruda would never exist.  Keytruda was developed by private industry, not the NIH.  The NIH did some research which helped the developers target spectific cancers, tho:

I would argue that, in the absence of the NIH, this research would still happen.  The immunotherapy industry, as you know, is a big money business. 

That being said, I've long advocated that the government should invest in pure research.  Private industry used to do a lot of it, but investors don't like such research because it isn't tied to a direct stream of revenue.  Instead, investors prefer development, which is less speculative.  As such, if such pure research is reduced, I will be disappointed.

 

Maybe begin funding such research by funding only hard science degrees through government grants.  If folks want a B.A. in comic book arts they pay for it themselves.  Take the savings from not having stoners languishing in college and then whining about their loans and invest that money in pure resdearch by those students that advanced in the hard sciences.

[Hardcore troubadour 15,432]

Bringing back the “Muslim” ban.  Nice. 

[jbycho 754]

1 hour ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You voted for a guy that doesn't believe there are any safe vaccines and has said they caused autism.

This is everything I hoped it would be when I voted for Trump. The liberal meltdown is simply glorious. It's the best thing on TV, radio, and the internet

Not to mention the whiners sitting in a booth behind us when we went out to breakfast this morning.

So fun. 

 

[Maximum Overkill 1,988]

4 minutes ago, jbycho said:

This is everything I hoped it would be when I voted for Trump. The liberal meltdown is simply glorious. It's the best thing on TV, radio, and the internet

Not to mention the whiners sitting in a booth behind us when we went out to breakfast this morning.

So fun. 

 

This Phantom dude is completely spun out. I'd bet my life that she screamed and cried like a little baby when she found out that DEI Kamala lost to Orangeman!  

[jbycho 754]

9 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

This Phantom dude is completely spun out. I'd bet my life that she screamed and cried like a little baby when she found out that DEI Kamala lost to Orangeman!  

The end of Biden and Harris alone is like taking a shower washing off 4 years of built up filth. 

Or even coming off of a long drunken stupor and saying, "WTF was that all about? Time to sober up."

But add bringing Trump into the equation? Bonus. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,988]

7 minutes ago, jbycho said:

The end of Biden and Harris alone is like taking a shower washing off 4 years of built up filth. 

Or even coming off of a long drunken stupor and saying, "WTF was that all about? Time to sober up."

But add bringing Trump into the equation? Bonus. 

It's a beautiful thing. 

They've got nothing else so now he's Hitler, it's the end of the World, etc. Democrat believe this crap just like they did in 2016. 

No wars, good economy, SO HORRIBLE  

[jbycho 754]

1 minute ago, Maximum Overkill said:

It's a beautiful thing. 

They've got nothing else so now he's Hitler, it's the end of the World, etc. Democrat believe this crap just like they did in 2016. 

No wars, good economy, SO HORRIBLE  

He's even gonna help the liberal news stations ratings. Just by being there. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,988]

4 minutes ago, jbycho said:

He's even gonna help the liberal news stations ratings. Just by being there. 

They actually believe that the Biden Presidency was a success. These people are sick! 

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

2 hours ago, Strike said:

His own article he posted yesterday said exactly this.  I pointed it out to him but like a lot of the lib trolls around here, facts don't seem to matter.

The fact is that the Republicans control the Congress who controls the budget and trump controls the government.  So if RFK wants to slash the workforce and the budget, it will happen.  You don't understand how anything works.  That's your problem.

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

44 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

They actually believe that the Biden Presidency was a success. These people are sick! 

It’s a little early yet but I strongly believe that history will view the Biden Presidency as a great success. The infrastructure bill alone is going to be a huge positive for this country. I have no doubt Trump and the Republicans will take credit for its good results. 

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

I also view Biden as somewhat similar to Harry Truman. When Truman left office his popularity rating was the lowest in American history. But today he is regarded as one of our very best Presidents. 

[jbycho 754]

40 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I also view Biden as somewhat similar to Harry Truman. When Truman left office his popularity rating was the lowest in American history. But today he is regarded as one of our very best Presidents. 

Truman committed the United States to the defense of South Korea after it was invaded by North Korea, but the conflict ended in a stalemate that lasted until Truman left office in 1953. The war globalized the Cold War and led to a massive American military build-up. 

[jbycho 754]

41 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I also view Biden as somewhat similar to Harry Truman. When Truman left office his popularity rating was the lowest in American history. But today he is regarded as one of our very best Presidents. 

Truman was unable to enact much of his domestic agenda, and he mishandled strikes. He also vetoed Congress's attempt to strip the Office of Price Administration of its power, which led to high prices and angered voters. 

[wiffleball 4,790]

How you doing health & otherwise Jer?

[jerryskids 6,797]

On 11/16/2024 at 9:50 AM, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Sorry I just assumed you voted for trump

Trump doesn't believe any vaccines are safe and that they cause autism?

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

9 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Trump doesn't believe any vaccines are safe and that they cause autism?

RFK does.  Trump said he's gonna let RFK go wild on health.  You understand logic right or do I need to draw the conclusion for you?

[jerryskids 6,797]

On 11/16/2024 at 1:35 PM, wiffleball said:

How you doing health & otherwise Jer?

Sorry, I missed this over the weekend.  I'm great, health and otherwise. For my cancer, they've started throwing around the possibility that they'll call me cured if nothing comes back in a year or two.  Otherwise, I finally have some meaningful volunteer work going on.

Also, @Bert is coming to Phoenix in December, and I've made plans to golf with him and for us and our wives to grab dinner.

How are you doing?  I don't recall a recent health update from you. 

[jerryskids 6,797]

4 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

RFK does.  Trump said he's gonna let RFK go wild on health.  You understand logic right or do I need to draw the conclusion for you?

I figured that this was your genius take.  I didn't vote for RFK.  If RFK just authoritatively starts whacking vaccines, we can have that discussion.

I understand your concern since you work in big pharma; if an administration was looking to turn my industry upside down, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.  Probably not good.  That being said, I don't generally think in terms of "what's in it for me" when I think about POTUS candidates.  I tend to think more broad brush at that level.  If I were to think that way though, probably the single most beneficial presidential impact on my industry (semiconductors) was the CHIPS Act, which I've lauded here on multiple occasions.  Even though I'm retired, it still directly impacts other members of my immediate family.  But that didn't incentivize me to vote for Kamala.  I hope Trump continues to invest in it, and to tell Xi to stay the hell out of Taiwan or he'll go berserk on him.

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

2 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I figured that this was your genius take.  I didn't vote for RFK.  If RFK just authoritatively starts whacking vaccines, we can have that discussion.

I understand your concern since you work in big pharma; if an administration was looking to turn my industry upside down, I'm not sure how I'd feel about it.  Probably not good.  That being said, I don't generally think in terms of "what's in it for me" when I think about POTUS candidates.  I tend to think more broad brush at that level.  If I were to think that way though, probably the single most beneficial presidential impact on my industry (semiconductors) was the CHIPS Act, which I've lauded here on multiple occasions.  Even though I'm retired, it still directly impacts other members of my immediate family.  But that didn't incentivize me to vote for Kamala.  I hope Trump continues to invest in it, and to tell Xi to stay the hell out of Taiwan or he'll go berserk on him.

Well unfortunately there are many many people like you that voted for Trump without understanding the consequences.  Like them, you will find out.

To be clear I left Big Pharma in 2014 and got back in Enterprise Software.  So no it's not personal for me since I am very healthy.  But I also don't vote for me personally, or I would have voted for Trump.  Instead I vote for the greater good and having vaccines and continued investment into R&D for infectious disease is good for America and the world.  Unfortunately that's not what Trump has planned.

[jerryskids 6,797]

16 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

Well unfortunately there are many many people like you that voted for Trump without understanding the consequences.  Like them, you will find out.

To be clear I left Big Pharma in 2014 and got back in Enterprise Software.  So no it's not personal for me since I am very healthy.  But I also don't vote for me personally, or I would have voted for Trump.  Instead I vote for the greater good and having vaccines and continued investment into R&D for infectious disease is good for America and the world.  Unfortunately that's not what Trump has planned.

Understanding the consequences?  Is that like the 80 IQ take that Trump is going to end democracy and all future elections?  I didn't understand that one either.  We've got posters here who believe it though.

I think what you mean is:  how did I weight the likelihood of your description actually coming to fruition.  Like I said, if bad things happen, we can have those discussions.  But I don't think they will eliminate the MMR vaccine on 1/21 anymore than I think Trump is going to end democracy and all future elections.

[The Real timschochet 6,764]

1 hour ago, jerryskids said:

Trump doesn't believe any vaccines are safe and that they cause autism?

Not sure about the first part but yeah he has linked vaccines to autism in the past: 

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/trumps-reckless-linkage-of-vaccines-and-autism/

[jerryskids 6,797]

7 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Not sure about the first part but yeah he has linked vaccines to autism in the past: 

https://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/trumps-reckless-linkage-of-vaccines-and-autism/

Fair enough.  That article is from Jan 2017 though.  He obviously didn't do anything his first time around.

I feel like, in the spirit of Scott Adams of Dilbert fame, that we are "watching two different movies" on this topic.  And I would argue the movie hasn't started since he isn't POTUS yet but... in your and @The Phantom's Phantom movie, RFK comes in and goes scorched earth on vaccines.  In my movie, where RFK has stated that he wants to be data driven, he'll fund investigations into autism, vaccine schedules, mercury, immunity from lawsuits, etc.

I guess we'll see which movie plays out, or even if we'll ever agree that we are watching the same movie.   

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

32 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Fair enough.  That article is from Jan 2017 though.  He obviously didn't do anything his first time around.

I feel like, in the spirit of Scott Adams of Dilbert fame, that we are "watching two different movies" on this topic.  And I would argue the movie hasn't started since he isn't POTUS yet but... in your and @The Phantom's Phantom movie, RFK comes in and goes scorched earth on vaccines.  In my movie, where RFK has stated that he wants to be data driven, he'll fund investigations into autism, vaccine schedules, mercury, immunity from lawsuits, etc.

I guess we'll see which movie plays out, or even if we'll ever agree that we are watching the same movie.   

We already have the data that shows no link between Autism and thimerosal.  If he wants to divert funding for cancer and viruses to vaccine research, that is wasteful and harmful.

He's not driven, he's an insane data denier and you voted for the guy that wants him to go wild.

[Maximum Overkill 1,988]

38 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

vaccine research, that is wasteful and harmful

As opposed the the Covid Jabs you got that we're not researched or tested!  

You keep hypocriting. 

[RaiderHaters Revenge 4,350]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/DBaZq9wtSly/?igsh=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==
great story

[The Phantom's Phantom 254]

15 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

As opposed the the Covid Jabs you got that we're not researched or tested!  

You keep hypocriting. 

You think the covid vaccine didn't have any research and was never tested?

That might be the dumbest thing ever said.

[BrahmaBulls 763]

9 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You think the covid vaccine didn't have any research and was never tested?

That might be the dumbest thing ever said.

How many years of testing was done before forcing it on the public?

[Maximum Overkill 1,988]

9 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You think the covid vaccine didn't have any research and was never tested?

That might be the dumbest thing ever said.

Guess how long it takes for a new drug or vaccine to hit the market? 

COVID WAS NEVER TESTED!!! IT WAS AN EMERGENCY USE VACCINE. 

YOU ARE THE TEST YOU MORON!!!!  

[Sean Mooney 1,983]

11 minutes ago, The Phantom's Phantom said:

You think the covid vaccine didn't have any research and was never tested?

That might be the dumbest thing ever said.

Give him another post or two and he will top it

[Maximum Overkill 1,988]

Woke School teacher is going to tell us how and how long the COVID vaccine was tested.  

Doesn't realize that he is the test  

Go! 

[wiffleball 4,790]

4 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Sorry, I missed this over the weekend.  I'm great, health and otherwise. For my cancer, they've started throwing around the possibility that they'll call me cured if nothing comes back in a year or two.  Otherwise, I finally have some meaningful volunteer work going on.

Also, @Bert is coming to Phoenix in December, and I've made plans to golf with him and for us and our wives to grab dinner.

How are you doing?  I don't recall a recent health update from you. 

 

Berts good peeps. 

You too. 

Sounds like a great time.