Re-evaluate 23 Draft

[Chickie 74]

Maybe Bryce Young really was the best QB in that draft?

[Ray_T 739]

1 minute ago, Chickie said:

Maybe Bryce Young really was the best QB in that draft?

I think at this point that would be pushing it.   In my mind, its not even a given that hes good enough to be a career starter at the NFL level.

Stroud at least looks like a legit starter despite his tough 2nd year as a pro starter.

[Law 241]

3 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

I think at this point that would be pushing it.   In my mind, its not even a given that hes good enough to be a career starter at the NFL level.

Stroud at least looks like a legit starter despite his tough 2nd year as a pro starter.

So, your eyes believe last year but not this year?

[Ray_T 739]

I think Stroud has still been the better QB this year.  his throws are on target a whole lot more often than Youngs have been.   Sure Stroud has had some struggles given there have been points this season where none of his starting WR were healthy, but if I was to build a team around a QB and those two were my only choices I'd take Stroud every time.

[kutulu 1,659]

I can't see that. JD seems to be the easy number 1 if a redraft were to take place. And I took CW before him 

[weepaws 3,149]

Wasn’t J Daniels drafted in 2024? 

[JagFan 149]

Young is a product of an Alabama program that clearly doesn’t develop QBs.  I don’t know why anyone would’ve thought he’d be any different than every other Alabama QB in the NFL…bad.  Tua is the closest thing to a Bama QB that’s almost NFL caliber.  Hurts has no idea how lucky he was to be run off by Saban so he could go to Oklahoma to actually be developed as a QB that could play at the next level.  So no, Young wasn’t the best QB in that draft.

[Ray_T 739]

11 minutes ago, JagFan said:

Young is a product of an Alabama program that clearly doesn’t develop QBs.  I don’t know why anyone would’ve thought he’d be any different than every other Alabama QB in the NFL…bad.  Tua is the closest thing to a Bama QB that’s almost NFL caliber.  Hurts has no idea how lucky he was to be run off by Saban so he could go to Oklahoma to actually be developed as a QB that could play at the next level.  So no, Young wasn’t the best QB in that draft.

quite possibly true.   this isnt the first time I've heard stuff said like that bout the way they run the team there.

for the record, I never make my judgement based on that.   I am a big believer that a college QB requires a different skillset than a pro QB.   Some college QB's who are a tier down from the top college QB make better pros.   and some players look good in a certain offense and different (sometimes bad) in a different one.

where I live it is not easy to follow us college ball to the extent that you likely watch it.   I dont have any favourite college team so I dont have any bias in that respect.   my decision in this issue is 100% based on what I have seen of these two players as pros.

I'm also going to say it is likely still too early to tell for sure either way.  Some QB take longer to come into their own at the pro level and sometimes being stuck with a bad coach can be enough to stop the player from developing as he should at the pro level.    It is not too late for Bryce young to turn things around but he is likely running out of time.   If he doesnt do anything next year, hes likely done as a starter at the NFL level.   Its not even a guarantee that Carolina keeps him around next year. (though from what I have seen, it may actually be better for Bryce to be in a different organization next year.  I dont believe Carolina gave him a good chance to be successful.   I could go into this more, but I dont think I need to at this point.

the debate is who was the best QB from that class.   I think if I had to pick someone I'd take Stroud.   Richardson may still have a higher ceiling, and still has a chance to come around as a pro level QB but in terms of what I like to see at the NFL level I'd still take Stroud.

 

[polecatt 474]

On 12/25/2024 at 10:41 PM, JagFan said:

Young is a product of an Alabama program that clearly doesn’t develop QBs.  I don’t know why anyone would’ve thought he’d be any different than every other Alabama QB in the NFL…bad.  Tua is the closest thing to a Bama QB that’s almost NFL caliber.  Hurts has no idea how lucky he was to be run off by Saban so he could go to Oklahoma to actually be developed as a QB that could play at the next level.  So no, Young wasn’t the best QB in that draft.

Weird because Alabama has been great at developing WRs for the next level

[JagFan 149]

38 minutes ago, polecatt said:

Weird because Alabama has been great at developing WRs for the next level

That they definetly have.  It’s a much different skill set, though.  RBs have really been hit or miss, probably 50/50…Henry, Gibbs, and Ingram/Harris (to a lesser extent) were hits.  You could probably argue that positions which are heavily O-line dependent for success seem to struggle more at the next level.  You have to keep in mind that those QBs and RBs were playing behind NFL caliber O-lines at the college level which was a huge advantage and the primary reason for Bama’s success under Saban.  They all come back to the pack at the next level.  Those glory days are over for Bama now.  I guess Saban didn’t want to play anymore now that EVERYONE can pay players w/o consequences.  And ESPN will never let a former Saban team suffer the same fate as USC because they still can’t seem to get Saban’s junk out of their mouths!

[polecatt 474]

3 hours ago, JagFan said:

That they definetly have.  It’s a much different skill set, though.  RBs have really been hit or miss, probably 50/50…Henry, Gibbs, and Ingram/Harris (to a lesser extent) were hits.  You could probably argue that positions which are heavily O-line dependent for success seem to struggle more at the next level.  You have to keep in mind that those QBs and RBs were playing behind NFL caliber O-lines at the college level which was a huge advantage and the primary reason for Bama’s success under Saban.  They all come back to the pack at the next level.  Those glory days are over for Bama now.  I guess Saban didn’t want to play anymore now that EVERYONE can pay players w/o consequences.  And ESPN will never let a former Saban team suffer the same fate as USC because they still can’t seem to get Saban’s junk out of their mouths!

That's the thing, Alabama has been absolutely loaded with NFL all across the board.

That means they have a bus driver QB.

Bus driver QBs in college just simply don't tend to pan out in the NFL. Or at least they don't tend to be strong starting QBs at the NFL level. They may make good back up QBs but not stars.

[Ray_T 739]

5 hours ago, JagFan said:

You have to keep in mind that those QBs and RBs were playing behind NFL caliber O-lines at the college level which was a huge advantage and the primary reason for Bama’s success under Saban.

100% true.  and this makes it harder to fairly evaluate their QB because its not often that the QB has to perform with a pass rusher in their face. 

to that end, it becomes hard for the QB to live up to that hype when they move to the pro level.    keep in mind, this isnt the fault of the QB.   all you can do is give him credit for performing in a situation where they outclass their opponent.    you can project what they do when the opponent plays at a higher level, but how many opponents had a D line that is even capable of  pushing around the Bama O line?  and how often did it actually happen?   I suspect the answer to the first question is 1 or 2 (maybe 3).   the answer to the second one  is likely 1 or zero (in terms of whole games)

 

 

[JagFan 149]

10 hours ago, Ray_T said:

100% true.  and this makes it harder to fairly evaluate their QB because its not often that the QB has to perform with a pass rusher in their face. 

to that end, it becomes hard for the QB to live up to that hype when they move to the pro level.    keep in mind, this isnt the fault of the QB.   all you can do is give him credit for performing in a situation where they outclass their opponent.    you can project what they do when the opponent plays at a higher level, but how many opponents had a D line that is even capable of  pushing around the Bama O line?  and how often did it actually happen?   I suspect the answer to the first question is 1 or 2 (maybe 3).   the answer to the second one  is likely 1 or zero (in terms of whole games)

 

 

You are dead on, it’s not these kids fault.  Because they are able to display how talented they are at the college level, they are drafted high by really bad teams.  To the OPs point, Bryce Young very well could be the best of the class.  He’s starting to pick it up.  Hopefully for him he’s rewarded by the team with more talent around him this offseason and he actually gets to develop before he gets ruined by a bad organization.  How many #1 overall QB draft picks did the Browns ruin before they could develop?  Baker Mayfield is a great example of what can happen when one of these guys gets a change of scenery and talent around him before it’s too late.  It would be interesting to see what Young could do if he had Tua’s supporting cast.

[Ray_T 739]

8 hours ago, JagFan said:

You are dead on, it’s not these kids fault.  Because they are able to display how talented they are at the college level, they are drafted high by really bad teams.  To the OPs point, Bryce Young very well could be the best of the class.  He’s starting to pick it up.  Hopefully for him he’s rewarded by the team with more talent around him this offseason and he actually gets to develop before he gets ruined by a bad organization.  How many #1 overall QB draft picks did the Browns ruin before they could develop?  Baker Mayfield is a great example of what can happen when one of these guys gets a change of scenery and talent around him before it’s too late.  It would be interesting to see what Young could do if he had Tua’s supporting cast.

agreed.    good chat.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,905]

Stroud went to Ohio State. Alabama has a much better track record with QB’s in the NFL. 

[JagFan 149]

2 hours ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Stroud went to Ohio State. Alabama has a much better track record with QB’s in the NFL. 

For example?  I’d say they’re basically the same, except Stroud gives OSU the slight edge over Bama at this point.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,905]

On 12/29/2024 at 1:35 AM, JagFan said:

For example?  I’d say they’re basically the same, except Stroud gives OSU the slight edge over Bama at this point.

Joe Namath, Kenny Stabler, Bart Starr.  Ohio State has no one. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,738]

On 12/25/2024 at 7:30 PM, Chickie said:

Maybe Bryce Young really was the best QB in that draft?

Possibly but he's still nothing more that a Kyler Murray, and Kyler Murray is God awful. 

I'm not a fan of the midget QBs, he and Murray can barely see over the line and it shows when under pressure. 

 

[weepaws 3,149]

1 hour ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Possibly but he's still nothing more that a Kyler Murray, and Kyler Murray is God awful. 

I'm not a fan of the midget QBs, he and Murray can barely see over the line and it shows when under pressure. 

 

Murray wasn’t in the 2023 draft HTH.  Thanks. 

[Maximum Overkill 1,738]

10 hours ago, weepaws said:

Murray wasn’t in the 2023 draft HTH.  Thanks. 

Didn't say he was dumb asss. Murray is my comp. Have a nice day. 

[Super Cubs 153]

Bijan and Gibbs have both lived up to their hype.  An argument could be made for either as #1 or #2. 

3 Chase Brown

4 Achane 

5 Charbonnet

6 Bigsby 

[weepaws 3,149]

I think Bijan has been a little bit of a disappointment, reports I keep reading about him was greatness, I think he’s been really good, but not great.  Gibbs has been better than I thought he would be. 

[RareN64Dream 21]

I could see RB- Ray Davis getting maybe like 7 TD next year and around 500 yards. James Cook got 15 rushing TD so far this season.

[Ray_T 739]

On 1/3/2025 at 9:49 PM, weepaws said:

I think Bijan has been a little bit of a disappointment, reports I keep reading about him was greatness, I think he’s been really good, but not great.  Gibbs has been better than I thought he would be. 

They said the same thing about Henry early in his career.    Because he didnt win the starting job outright as a rookie.   I dont think hes been bad.  I just think its a case where they have another RB who is really good so they arent running him into the ground yet.

honestly its better for the team.   Just not better for your fantasy roster.    and one thing people always need to keep in mind is that teams will act in their own interests..... and that will sometimes clash with your interests as a fantasy owner.

[weepaws 3,149]

59 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

They said the same thing about Henry early in his career.    Because he didnt win the starting job outright as a rookie.   I dont think hes been bad.  I just think its a case where they have another RB who is really good so they arent running him into the ground yet.

honestly its better for the team.   Just not better for your fantasy roster.    and one thing people always need to keep in mind is that teams will act in their own interests..... and that will sometimes clash with your interests as a fantasy owner.

I have never had him on my team, Allgeir is the reason, but he has been productive, but I’m not seeing the next great rb.  If he was that good, I think Robinson would be dominating touches.  

 

[weepaws 3,149]

3 hours ago, weepaws said:

I have never had him on my team, Allgeir is the reason, but he has been productive, but I’m not seeing the next great rb.  If he was that good, I think Robinson would be dominating touches.  

 

Falcons made a really good move by changing qbs, Robinson game has been lifted up, much more work load, I think season three the Falcons will finally feature Robinson, I could see Robinson being my top rb on my board in both my non and ppr league, and that would make him my top pick in my non ppr league.  

[Maximum Overkill 1,738]

On 1/3/2025 at 11:49 PM, weepaws said:

think Bijan has been a little bit of a disappointment

Have you lost your mind? He's been a monster all season.