J6 Pardons

[Fnord 2,263]

11 hours ago, thegeneral said:

See this all the time. So weird this is such an Important thing for MAGA people.

It's almost as if... and I know this will come as a surprise to you... they don't know anything or GAF about actual tangible policy. Bird Dung is an excellent example of this, as every post is just a whinefest about, or insults toward liberals. No substance. Perfect MAGA.

[squistion 2,194]

22 minutes ago, RLLD said:

You dont even know me.  But I doubt you would say this to my face.....

Which is probably true of many of the folks here who engage in name calling.

[RLLD 4,230]

2 minutes ago, squistion said:

Which is probably true of many of the folks here who engage in name calling.

I think you are correct. I think in part my point is the inclination to label and name call out of frustration when someone disagrees with your point of view.

[Fnord 2,263]

2 minutes ago, RLLD said:

I think you are correct. I think in part my point is the inclination to label and name call out of frustration when someone disagrees with your point of view.

You mean the go-to maneuver for the majority of posters here? Those lacking the intelligence and wherewithal to defend their stances with rationale? This is one of the reasons I like you, despite our obvious differences of opinion.

[Horseman 2,449]

On 1/21/2025 at 11:40 PM, thegeneral said:

That dude today said he was going to load up on guns. That sounds wonderful.

Thegeneral is afraid of the "neckbeards"     

[thegeneral 3,207]

32 minutes ago, Fnord said:

It's almost as if... and I know this will come as a surprise to you... they don't know anything or GAF about actual tangible policy. Bird Dung is an excellent example of this, as every post is just a whinefest about, or insults toward liberals. No substance. Perfect MAGA.

In this case it has to be a fall back because they know the blanket pardoning is a mistake and inexcusable. 

[thegeneral 3,207]

24 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Thegeneral is afraid of the "neckbeards"     

I wouldn’t want this guy as a neighbor.

[jbycho 754]

39 minutes ago, Fnord said:

It's almost as if... and I know this will come as a surprise to you... they don't know anything or GAF about actual tangible policy. Bird Dung is an excellent example of this, as every post is just a whinefest about, or insults toward liberals. No substance. Perfect MAGA.

Who's whining? 

Trump is already winning. Love this for America. 

[jbycho 754]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

I wouldn’t want this guy as a neighbor.

Who cares?

[Maximum Overkill 1,985]

1 minute ago, thegeneral said:

In this case it has to be a fall back because they know the blanket pardoning is a mistake and inexcusable. 

You're right, it was a mistake. The most violent offenders should never of been pardoned. But there's also many who shouldn't of been there. 

One girl that was arrested and convicted was just standing outside filming on her phone. She just got out of jail, never should of been there. She's one of many 

[RLLD 4,230]

29 minutes ago, Fnord said:

You mean the go-to maneuver for the majority of posters here? Those lacking the intelligence and wherewithal to defend their stances with rationale? This is one of the reasons I like you, despite our obvious differences of opinion.

It does tend to happen. But that does not then mean I will accept it being done to me.

[Fnord 2,263]

3 minutes ago, RLLD said:

It does tend to happen. But that does not then mean I will accept it being done to me.

[The Real timschochet 6,751]

Republicans have announced the formation of a new Jan 6 committee. So much for looking forward. I can only assume they will investigate Pelosi, the FBI, Liz Cheney, Antifa…should be a blast. 

[jonmx 2,429]

12 hours ago, Death said:

Here's another awesome pardon:

https://www.npr.org/2025/01/21/nx-s1-5270051/trump-pardons-dark-web-marketplace-creator-ross-ulbricht

Dark web marketplace creator. Murder for hire. Distributing narcotics.

What a swell guy to release into the public.

 

Funny you list murderer for hire, then quote sources which say the government doesn't even know if those murders ever happened.  I don't know enough about this case to know if he deserved to be pardon.  I know his platform was used for a lot of bad things and he profited off of it.   So the quick look says no.

[The Real timschochet 6,751]

12 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

You're right, it was a mistake. The most violent offenders should never of been pardoned. But there's also many who shouldn't of been there. 

One girl that was arrested and convicted was just standing outside filming on her phone. She just got out of jail, never should have been there. She's one of many 

This isn’t an unreasonable argument. If Trump had gone through the list of these people carefully (as he promised do several times during his campaign) I personally would not have a problem with it. Now I have a huge problem with it; I regard it as an impeachable offense and an act of treason against the Constitution he just swore to uphold. 

[jonmx 2,429]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Republicans have announced the formation of a new Jan 6 committee. So much for looking forward. I can only assume they will investigate Pelosi, the FBI, Liz Cheney, Antifa…should be a blast. 

If a cop plants a gun and sends a black man to prison for life, is it moving forward to forget about it?  I am sure you think that is a ridiculous analogy....but what if it was the government behind planting the pipe bombs that day?  What if the government had a cell of FBI agents whose mission it was to make sure there was an insurrection?  What if Congress altered testimony and destroyed evidence?   Should we just move on from the mass corruption deep within the walls of government, or do we need to do some serious house cleaning to fix the problem?   You want to 'move forward', but we first need to investigate and do some chemo to remove the cancer.  

[thegeneral 3,207]

17 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

You're right, it was a mistake. The most violent offenders should never of been pardoned. But there's also many who shouldn't of been there. 

One girl that was arrested and convicted was just standing outside filming on her phone. She just got out of jail, never should have been there. She's one of many 

Whenever someone points these specific instances out and I spend time reading about them there was usually more to it.

For instance, Joe Rogan had Quentin Tarantino and some other guy who he worked with on a couple weeks back. The other guy went on a Jan 6 rant and how this guy he knew should not be in jail and is being withheld his due process. When you googled the guy, he is the one that keeps delaying his trial.

But thank you for acknowledging that there are many who should be sitting in prison. 

[Fnord 2,263]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This isn’t an unreasonable argument. If Trump had gone through the list of these people carefully (as he promised do several times during his campaign) I personally would not have a problem with it. Now I have a huge problem with it; I regard it as an impeachable offense and an act of treason against the Constitution he just swore to uphold. 

You might, but at this point Turnip could walk onto the Senate floor and murder Chuck Schumer with 50 witnesses without being impeached. Or even indicted, given SCOTUS rulings.

[Maximum Overkill 1,985]

4 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This isn’t an unreasonable argument. If Trump had gone through the list of these people carefully (as he promised do several times during his campaign) I personally would not have a problem with it. Now I have a huge problem with it; I regard it as an impeachable offense and an act of treason against the Constitution he just swore to uphold. 

I agree Tim, he handled the Pardons terribly. I don't think Biden did any better, even worse. 

[The Real timschochet 6,751]

2 minutes ago, jonmx said:

If a cop plants a gun and sends a black man to prison for life, is it moving forward to forget about it?  I am sure you think that is a ridiculous analogy....but what if it was the government behind planting the pipe bombs that day?  What if the government had a cell of FBI agents whose mission it was to make sure there was an insurrection?  What if Congress altered testimony and destroyed evidence?   Should we just move on from the mass corruption deep within the walls of government, or do we need to do some serious house cleaning to fix the problem?   You want to 'move forward', but we first need to investigate and do some chemo to remove the cancer.  

Simply put I don’t believe that any of the “what ifs” you raised happened. I think they’re all hogwash. But hey if there’s evidence, bring it. Otherwise this committee is going to look really foolish and I suspect that will be the case. 

[The Real timschochet 6,751]

1 minute ago, Maximum Overkill said:

I agree Tim, he handled the Pardons terribly. I don't think Biden did any better, even worse. 

I strongly disapproved of what Biden did, but I don’t regard Biden’s pardons as treason. I do regard Trump’s pardons that way. 

[Tree of Knowledge 1,852]

13 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Republicans have announced the formation of a new Jan 6 committee. So much for looking forward. I can only assume they will investigate Pelosi, the FBI, Liz Cheney, Antifa…should be a blast. 

Long overdue.  Lock them up.  

[thegeneral 3,207]

3 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

I agree Tim, he handled the Pardons terribly. I don't think Biden did any better, even worse. 

Biden pardoning his family was a terrible move and precedent.

[Maximum Overkill 1,985]

6 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

Biden pardoning his family was a terrible move and precedent.

Not just that, Biden pardoned killers, rapists and violent criminals. 

I think we can agree that both were wrong. 

[thegeneral 3,207]

5 minutes ago, Maximum Overkill said:

Not just that, Biden pardoned killers, rapists and violent criminals. 

I think we can agree that both were wrong. 

This like the Jan 6th people when individuals have been pointed to it wasn’t as cut and dry as he simply let out a rapist.

[Horseman 2,449]

49 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

I wouldn’t want this guy as a neighbor.

Don't worry. We sold all our property in the chithole blue cities.  Now we pay $2.50 for gas. Car insurance dropped 70%  property tax dropped 80%.  Enjoy your homeless and graffiti everywhere that you pay so much for for the privilege of living there.   

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 hour ago, RLLD said:

You dont even know me.  But I doubt you would say this to my face.....

I doubt he would either.

[Maximum Overkill 1,985]

4 minutes ago, thegeneral said:

he simply let out a rapist.

BTW, Biden didn't pardon anyone, he wasn't mentally capable of it at the end. Makes you wonder who did through doesn't it? 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

33 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This isn’t an unreasonable argument. If Trump had gone through the list of these people carefully (as he promised do several times during his campaign) I personally would not have a problem with it. Now I have a huge problem with it; I regard it as an impeachable offense and an act of treason against the Constitution he just swore to uphold. 

Go on....

 

Explain how exercising the pardon power is an impeachable offense and an act of treason.  Feel free to cite caselaw.  I look forward to considering the merits of your position.

[thegeneral 3,207]

8 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Don't worry. We sold all our property in the chithole blue cities.  Now we pay $2.50 for gas. Car insurance dropped 70%  property tax dropped 80%.  Enjoy your homeless and graffiti everywhere that you pay so much for for the privilege of living there.   

Good for you. Maybe you won’t be a miserable asshat all the time now! Probably not…

[Horseman 2,449]

Just now, thegeneral said:

Good for you. Maybe you won’t be a miserable asshat all the time now! Probably not…

Seattle is a garbage dump. Hope it turns around some day.  Probably not with braindead voters like you.  

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

37 minutes ago, Fnord said:

You might, but at this point Turnip could walk onto the Senate floor and murder Chuck Schumer with 50 witnesses without being impeached. Or even indicted, given SCOTUS rulings.

Much as I find Schumer to be beyond odious, I would have to say Trump would need to be indicted.

 

Also, I believe it to be a violation of Senate and House rules and protocol for the President to appear without invitation so in addition to being murder, by god, it would be bad form.  And like Woodrow F. Call I hate rude behavior in a man.

https://youtu.be/wLAY15lB4I4

[thegeneral 3,207]

Just now, Horseman said:

Seattle is a garbage dump. Hope it turns around some day.  Probably not with braindead voters like you.  

IIRC you lived in the deep suburbs. You were pretty much a tourist. Enjoy your new home. 

[Horseman 2,449]

36 minutes ago, Fnord said:

You might, but at this point Turnip could walk onto the Senate floor and murder Chuck Schumer with 50 witnesses without being impeached. Or even indicted, given SCOTUS rulings.

Sounds awesome.  

Good thing he has some restraint.  Drag it out, he's got 4+ years.  

[Fnord 2,263]

1 minute ago, Engorgeous George said:

Much as I find Schumer to be beyond odious, I would have to say Trump would need to be indicted.

 

Also, I beleive it to be a violation of Senate and House rules and protocol for the President to appear without invitation so in addition to being murder, by god, it wlould be bad form.

Bolded made me chuckle, as this has and will never stop Trump from doing what he wants.

I am curious though: as a lawyer you have much greater insight into legalities than me. Given the GOP is seemingly entirely enthralled with and subservient to their dear Father, would they ever vote to impeach him? Obviously my example was a ridiculous joke. What if Trump did do something very obviously felonious and the press had receipts? Like Jack Smith dies and his death can directly be tied to Trump as a co-conspirator. Would he really get impeached and removed? I'm doubtful. And aside from the impeachment question, do you really believe he would be indicted? If so, why? And how? Could he not order the DOJ to stand down? What prosecutor would risk their career or possibly life for it? 

[The Real timschochet 6,751]

15 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

Go on....

 

Explain how exercising the pardon power is an impeachable offense and an act of treason.  Feel free to cite caselaw.  I look forward to considering the merits of your position.

Sure. He pardoned people who attacked the U.S. Capitol Building and committed violence against the police officers protecting it. That is not illegal; he has the right to pardon people. But I regard this as an act of treason against the USA and therefore  an impeachable offense. Thats pretty much the whole of my argument. I don’t need to get into the weeds of what is or what is not an impeachable offense or what is or what is not an act of treason because neither has ever been properly defined. To paraphrase Potter Stewart, I know it when I see it. 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 minute ago, Fnord said:

Bolded made me chuckle, as this has and will never stop Trump from doing what he wants.

I am curious though: as a lawyer you have much greater insight into legalities than me. Given the GOP is seemingly entirely enthralled with and subservient to their dear Father, would they ever vote to impeach him? Obviously my example was a ridiculous joke. What if Trump did do something very obviously felonious and the press had receipts? Like Jack Smith dies and his death can directly be tied to Trump as a co-conspirator. Would he really get impeached and removed? I'm doubtful. And aside from the impeachment question, do you really believe he would be indicted? If so, why? And how? Could he not order the DOJ to stand down? What prosecutor would risk their career or possibly life for it? 

Sadly, like you, I suspect partisanship might rule the day.  I would hope that integrity would trump blind partisanship, but events of the last two decades, and the last 8 years or so in particular  give me doubts.

He, in theory, cannot order the DOJ as to how to do their job.  He, can, however, dismiss his appointees there if they disappoint him which is fairly strong negative control.

As for what Prosecutor would risk life or career, who can say, but there are always a few, some out of integrity, and some out of desire for the limelight.

 

[Engorgeous George 2,331]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Sure. He pardoned people who attacked the U.S. Capitol Building and committed violence against the police officers protecting it. That is not illegal; he has the right to pardon people. But I regard this as an act of treason against the USA and therefore  an impeachable offense. Thats pretty much the whole of my argument. I don’t need to get into the weeds of what is or what is not an impeachable offense or what is or what is not an act of treason because neither has ever been properly defined. To paraphrase Potter Stewart, I know it when I see it. 

As I thought.

 

So much for your oft repreated refrain that you are here for discussion and are open minded.  Your stance here is about as didactic as any I have seen.

[The Real timschochet 6,751]

2 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

As I thought.

 

So much for your oft repreated refrain that you are here for discussion and are open minded.  Your stance here is about as didactic as any I have seen.

Great response. You also asked me to cite case law as to how using the pardon power can be an impeachable offense. I’m not a lawyer so I don’t know the case law. However I looked it up. Here is an article from 2018 explaining how using pardons can be obstruction of justice and therefore impeachable. It cites cases and the Supreme Court: 

https://www.americanprogress.org/article/obstructing-justice-pardons-impeachable-offense/

As far as me being open minded: if you disagree with my stance here then make your case and of course I will listen to it. Simply calling me didactic is not really compelling. 

[Fnord 2,263]

4 minutes ago, Engorgeous George said:

He, in theory, cannot order the DOJ as to how to do their job. 

And herein lies the root of the problems with him. Anything that is only theoretical, historical, normal, ethical, or acceptable does not exist. He will bend, warp, or break anything perceived to be in his way. And in tearing down the institutions with the ability and willingness to check his power and actions, he further enables his own abuse of the system. We are 2 days into this admin. My guess is it will take him about 6 months to really realize that he can do whatever, whenever he wants and will truly begin challenging the few weak guardrails remaining.