Yeah...I'm a bit worried

[Ron_Artest 1,024]

29 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

I mean 2 can play that game.   I believe Kamala, if elected, would have kept sending billions to Ukraine and started world war three.   You can't argue with this.

Actually you can.  See it's up to Congress to approve aid to Ukraine.

Now tell me, how does she send billions to Ukraine without approval by a republican congress?

[Ron_Artest 1,024]

13 minutes ago, jbycho said:

Sure, because Harris funding foreign wars wouldn't continue to promote war. 

You are such an idiot. 

A President can't fund a war without congress you idiot.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,903]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

A President can't fund a war without congress you idiot.

Idiot thinks if she won she wouldn’t have won the house as well. 

[jbycho 579]

1 minute ago, Ron_Artest said:

A President can't fund a war without congress you idiot.

Are you this stupid? 

[supermike80 1,794]

Just now, jbycho said:

Are you this stupid? 

Don't think he understands.   But that's OK.   Hes anti Trump.  Which is totally fine.   But saying Kamala would have made things better, yeah he can say that for the things he finds important.  But it's only a guess.  She didn't win.  So we literally have no idea how the economy would be doing with her in office

[Ron_Artest 1,024]

2 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Idiot thinks if she won she wouldn’t have won the house as well. 

There were an overwhelming number of bullet ballots, where someone voted for Trump and no one else.  Without those she could have won, and then lost the house as well.

[Ron_Artest 1,024]

1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Don't think he understands.   But that's OK.   Hes anti Trump.  Which is totally fine.   But saying Kamala would have made things better, yeah he can say that for the things he finds important.  But it's only a guess.  She didn't win.  So we literally have no idea how the economy would be doing with her in office

Explain to me how a president funds a war without approval from congress if you don't mind.

[GobbleDog 976]

"The only thing that makes sense is for Canada to become our Fifty First State. This would make all the tariffs and everything else disappear...  The artificial line of separation drawn many years ago will finally disappear and we'll have the safest and most beautiful nation in the world." - Donald Trump Mar 11, 2025. 

Trump is serious about annexing Greenland as well. He wants to expand U.S. territory just like his hero - Putin the imperialist murdering dictator.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,903]

32 minutes ago, Ron_Artest said:

There were an overwhelming number of bullet ballots, where someone voted for Trump and no one else.  Without those she could have won, and then lost the house as well.

No

[jerryskids 6,547]

50 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

No I don’t think Kamala starting WWIII is a reasonable argument or in any way analogous to what Trump has done. She would have supported Ukraine and eventually Putin would have sought a peaceful end to the stalemate. 

This was a fundamental flaw of the Obama/Biden foreign policy approach -- the belief that creating a stalemate situation encourages concessions.  It perfectly describes Ukraine, but also explains our former approach to Israel/Hamas (slow play support and intel to Israel, while supporting Hamas through UN "relief" organizations.  Also the seeming inexplicable billions of dollars we've given to Iran to fund their nuclear weapon development.

This doesn't work.  As evidence I provide the three above situations.

In the real world, concessions are made and conflicts end when one side is clearly in an inferior position.  Which is where Ukraine, Hamas, and Iran would be if we didn't have our hands on the scale to create a "stalemate."

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

24 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

This was a fundamental flaw of the Obama/Biden foreign policy approach -- the belief that creating a stalemate situation encourages concessions.  It perfectly describes Ukraine, but also explains our former approach to Israel/Hamas (slow play support and intel to Israel, while supporting Hamas through UN "relief" organizations.  Also the seeming inexplicable billions of dollars we've given to Iran to fund their nuclear weapon development.

This doesn't work.  As evidence I provide the three above situations.

In the real world, concessions are made and conflicts end when one side is clearly in an inferior position.  Which is where Ukraine, Hamas, and Iran would be if we didn't have our hands on the scale to create a "stalemate."

The three situations you stated are very different. Incidentally that’s why I’ve never been a fan of “doctrines” because there’s no policy that fits all instances. 
 

Let’s focus for now on Ukraine because it was the topic under discussion. Since invading Russia has lost billions of dollars, 700,000 men, and gained only 20% of Ukrainian territory. I’m sure this is not what Putin had in mind and sooner or later he’s going to agree to a peace settlement. The differences between Harris and Trump in this regard are mostly performative IMO- I think with either President we get to the same place: basically support Ukraine until Putin gets tired of the cost of war. Now Trump has played around a little with screwing over Ukraine, whereas Harris would not have, but in the end Trump will support Ukraine until Russia agrees to stop. Hopefully that will be soon. 

[Gepetto 1,285]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

This is what I mean by too late: the other countries retaliate, and then Trump retaliates, and that’s how trade wars get started. Once they start it’s very difficult to stop because all parties have a lot of national pride and resentment which makes it very difficult for a nation’s leaders to back off (we already are starting to see this happening with Canada.) 

This isn’t fearmongering. It’s what happened in history almost every time tariffs are attempted as means to achieve some other goal. You can read books on Smoot Harley, or President McKinley in the 1890s- the results are always the same. But it’s not too late yet. Trump can back off right now, and it will be no harm no foul. 

I thought you said we pay more because of tariffs. So, if Canada puts tariffs on us they will pay more by that logic and only hurt themselves. Refute that logic.

[jerryskids 6,547]

Back to the OP:  I believe I said in this thread earlier that I'm OK with tariffs in certain situations:  retaliatory, perhaps child/slave labor, etc.  If such tariffs are in place, business can plan for them.  If they are not in place, businesses can also plan for the lack of them.

What they CAN'T plan for is this on again off again stuff. Markets hate uncertainty, and it is showing. Trump needs to make decisions and ride them out for a while.  

As a side note, if I ran a business, I wouldn't announce a major move of manufacturing just yet.  There is plenty of time to make such an announcement in the weeks and months ahead, when there is more clarity on these tariffs.  But that's just me.

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

9 minutes ago, Gepetto said:

I thought you said we pay more because of tariffs. So, if Canada puts tariffs on us they will pay more by that logic and only hurt themselves. Refute that logic.

Canada will suffer because of the tariffs they put on us. We will suffer because of the tariffs we put on them. And vice versa. Everybody suffers. It’s like a classic Russian novel! 

[jbycho 579]

5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Canada will suffer because of the tariffs they put on us. We will suffer because of the tariffs we put on them. And vice versa. Everybody suffers. It’s like a classic Russian novel! 

[Horseman 2,353]

2 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

If something needs a catalyst to happen, then by definition it can’t be inevitable. HTH 

Demonstrably false. 

You just make stuff up as you go. Pathetic.  

[thegeneral 2,878]

Saw a headline that the EU is setting tariffs that target Red States. This is no good.

[Horseman 2,353]

15 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Canada will suffer because of the tariffs they put on us. We will suffer because of the tariffs we put on them. And vice versa. Everybody suffers. It’s like a classic Russian novel! 

JFC. 

If I give you a dollar and you give me a dollar nobody suffers you foking blowhard.   

[Ron_Artest 1,024]

22 minutes ago, Horseman said:

JFC. 

If I give you a dollar and you give me a dollar nobody suffers you foking blowhard.   

The consumers pay not the govt you dope.

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

21 minutes ago, Horseman said:

JFC. 

If I give you a dollar and you give me a dollar nobody suffers you foking blowhard.   

Thats not how tariffs work. Educate yourself before you talk about this subject. Or don’t and continue to talk drivel. 

[Horseman 2,353]

Just now, Ron_Artest said:

The consumers pay not the govt you dope.

And the government gives it back in big tax cuts for the rich. US wins. 

Dummy walked right into that one.  

 

[Horseman 2,353]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Thats not how tariffs work. Educate yourself before you talk about this subject. Or don’t and continue to talk drivel. 

I dumbed it down for you.  Didn't work apparently.  

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

26 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Demonstrably false. 

You just make stuff up as you go. Pathetic.  

99% of economists: “the current stock market dip is due to Trump’s tarrifs”. 
 

Horseman at FFT: “They’re all morons! This was inevitable!” 
 

I’m really having trouble deciding who is right here. It’s a conundrum. 

[Horseman 2,353]

2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

99% of economists: “the current stock market dip is due to Trump’s tarrifs”. 
 

Horseman at FFT: “They’re all morons! This was inevitable!” 
 

I’m really having trouble deciding who is right here. It’s a conundrum. 

Not what I said. 

100% liar as usual.  

[The Girlfriend 208]

Horseman is never right. This is the only info you need to know.

[Horseman 2,353]

Just now, The Girlfriend said:

Horseman is never right. This is the only info you need to know.

2+2=4

Boom!

Too easy with the tiny brains.  

[The Girlfriend 208]

2 minutes ago, Horseman said:

2+2=4

Boom!

Too easy with the tiny brains.  

Yep, doesn’t understand hyperbole. It’s the little details that keep you stupid.

[thegeneral 2,878]

3 minutes ago, Horseman said:

2+2=4

Boom!

For now until Trump discovers math was invented by the Sumerians and has it banned.

[Hardcore troubadour 14,903]

Biden kept many of Trumps tariffs. Tim remained silent as did the rest of the lemmings. 

[Horseman 2,353]

4 minutes ago, The Girlfriend said:

Yep, doesn’t understand hyperbole. It’s the little details that keep you stupid.

Just exaggerating when completely wrong. Probably just joking next.  Take a lap loser.  

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

Canadians are boycotting the USA. No products of ours being purchased. Vacations cancelled. 
 

We’re going to lose billions due to one man’s stupidity. 

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

13 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Not what I said. 

100% liar as usual.  

There was NOTHING inevitable about this. It’s all on Trump. 

[The Girlfriend 208]

1 minute ago, Horseman said:

Just exaggerating when completely wrong. Probably just joking next.  Take a lap loser.  

 

23 hours ago, The Girlfriend said:

There’s a reason why when we think something is full of sh!t we say horseshit.

He’s a complete fraud. He isn’t smart, isn’t successful, his wife probably looks like a wildebeest, and he certainly isn’t a tough guy.

Tony should change his name to Phony.

 

[Horseman 2,353]

4 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Biden kept many of Trumps tariffs. Tim remained silent as did the rest of the lemmings. 

Vast majority of them. And increased tariffs on China.  

It was bad for everybody!!!!!!!

[Horseman 2,353]

Just now, The Girlfriend said:

 

 

Did you work today?   

[Horseman 2,353]

1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

There was NOTHING inevitable about this. It’s all on Trump. 

Market was due a correction for almost 2 years. It's healthy and smart investors took advantage of it.  You're not smart. You don't plan for market corrections. You'd rather play politics.  

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

14 minutes ago, Hardcore troubadour said:

Biden kept many of Trumps tariffs. Tim remained silent as did the rest of the lemmings. 

This is another lie. 

[The Real timschochet 6,388]

9 minutes ago, Horseman said:

Vast majority of them. And increased tariffs on China.  

It was bad for everybody!!!!!!!

Yes it was. But not nearly as terrible as these new tariffs. They are catastrophic. And what’s happening in the stock market isn’t healthy, it’s stupid and unnecessary. Kind of like yourself. 

[Horseman 2,353]

3 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

This is another lie. 

 

Quote

The Biden administration kept most of the Trump administration tariffs in place, and in May 2024, announced tariff hikes on an additional $18 billion of Chinese goods, including semiconductors and electric vehicles.

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tariffs-trade-war/

Too easy. Not just a tiny brain. Runs around making stuff up and lies all the time. Troll. 

[Hardcore troubadour 14,903]

1 minute ago, Horseman said:

 

https://taxfoundation.org/research/all/federal/trump-tariffs-trade-war/

Too easy. Not just a tiny brain. Runs around making stuff up and lies all the time. Troll. 

And non thinkers like Gutterboy jump in.