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The Real timschochet

Israel Gaza thread

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1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve answered many times what Israel is to do. But I will again: 

1. immediate ceasefire. 
2. allow refugee and aid groups to enter Gaza without restriction or interference. 
3. pledge to commit to a 2 state solution. Recognize a state of Palestine, commit to no further settlements in the West Bank, Gaza, or eastern Jerusalem. 

Who runs the new state of Palestine?

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2 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Strike said it did.  

I said it didn't.  Answer my question, if you want to have a discussion.  Or continue being a petulant child.

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12 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I've already said that deserve's got nothing to do with it.  The question is:  Should we have not dropped the bomb?

I will answer this question too: it was the correct decision to drop the bomb on Hiroshima. Not sure about Nagasaki. That may have been unnecessary. 
 

What Israel is doing in Gaza is unnecessary. 

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Strike and Skids in the verbage / facts  battle against the Tims?   

HMM....My money is on the kat eating chinaman and the kat loving other dude (that would you, Jerry)

Sorry. Tims, but guys are outclassed going against these two imo

 

 

A side note to Skids....Please don't change your profile pic anytime soon.   I miss that kat (

 

 

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1 hour ago, SUXBNME said:

Strike and Skids in the verbage / facts  battle against the Tims?   

HMM....My money is on the kat eating chinaman and the kat loving other dude (that would you, Jerry)

Sorry. Tims, but guys are outclassed going against these two imo

 

 

A side note to Skids....Please don't change your profile pic anytime soon.   I miss that kat (

 

 

Are you serious? Outclassed by Strike? Totally embarrassing if true (it isn’t.) 

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5 hours ago, SUXBNME said:

Strike and Skids in the verbage / facts  battle against the Tims?   

HMM....My money is on the kat eating chinaman and the kat loving other dude (that would you, Jerry)

Sorry. Tims, but guys are outclassed going against these two imo

 

 

A side note to Skids....Please don't change your profile pic anytime soon.   I miss that kat (

 

 

Strike complained that I misquoted him because I added the word “on,” lolololol.

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On 7/17/2025 at 1:29 PM, Strike said:

You are taking a childish, utopian view that you can wage WAR and not have one innocent life lost.  

Lol that Strike previously lied and attributed this belief to me, and is now complaining about the word “on.”

Talk about intellectually dishonest.  I guess it’s okay to lie if you don’t use quotation marks.  Noted

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8 hours ago, jerryskids said:

I said it didn't.  Answer my question, if you want to have a discussion.  Or continue being a petulant child.

I’ll answer after Strike answers if he thinks they deserved it.  And if he answers no, if he explains how that is relevant to his stated belief that Gazans “deserve whatever fate befalls them.”

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49 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

I’ll answer after Strike answers if he thinks they deserved it.  And if he answers no, if he explains how that is relevant to his stated belief that Gazans “deserve whatever fate befalls them.”

Your discussion with me has nothing to do with your discussion with Jerry.  You're a child.  And I never said the people of Hiroshima deserved it.  You keep using the word they in reference to my statements when there are two different people's we've discussed so half the time I don't even know who you're referring to.

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3 minutes ago, Strike said:

Your discussion with me has nothing to do with your discussion with Jerry.  You're a child.  And I never said the people of Hiroshima deserved it.  You keep using the word they in reference to my statements when there are two different people's we've discussed so half the time I don't even know who you're referring to.

Do you think the Japanese in Hiroshima deserved it?

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4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

Do you think the Japanese in Hiroshima deserved it?

Yes, otherwise you'd be speaking Japanese right now. 

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10 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

This response is part of the problem. You can’t ask a country anything. China is made up of one billion people. 

That waa a very squishy response.  You should be embarrassed

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12 hours ago, jerryskids said:

Who runs the new state of Palestine?

Next in line, we have Raving Lunatic #154.

He may well be an improvement on the first 153 raving lunatics. This one likes ice cream, which is pretty reasonable. Let's give him as shot.

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13 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I’ve answered many times what Israel is to do. But I will again: 

1. immediate ceasefire. 
2. allow refugee and aid groups to enter Gaza without restriction or interference. 
3. pledge to commit to a 2 state solution. Recognize a state of Palestine, commit to no further settlements in the West Bank, Gaza, or eastern Jerusalem. 

So lets see.  Hamas gets everything and israel gets no security.  Yeah. Thats not happening.  They massacre thousands on oct 7th and we give them a state for their efforts.

There needs to be a stick with this carrot cake youve offered 

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3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

So lets see.  Hamas gets everything and israel gets no security.  Yeah. Thats not happening.  They massacre thousands on oct 7th and we give them a state for their efforts.

There needs to be a stick with this carrot cake youve offered 

Feeding starving people is not really a carrot cake. It’s something that we should do, full stop. 
As far as the stick- the existence of the State of Israel itself is enough of one. It’s not going away. Sooner or later the Palestinian people will have to accept this or their lives will always be miserable, Hamas or not. 

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6 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

israel gets no security.  

Let’s be clear about this point too: what Israel has done in the last nearly two years (since October 7) has NOT increased its security. It’s made things more perilous. 

There is only one long term solution to Israel’s security and that is the establishment of a peaceful, prosperous state of Palestine alongside it. No matter how difficult that goal is, unless it happens Israel will never be safe. 

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13 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

So lets see.  Hamas gets everything and israel gets no security.  Yeah. Thats not happening.  They massacre thousands on oct 7th and we give them a state for their efforts.

There needs to be a stick with this carrot cake youve offered 

C’mon, the world is not going to allow Hamas to have a say in a potential Palestinian state, you know this.

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19 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Let’s be clear about this point too: what Israel has done in the last nearly two years (since October 7) has NOT increased its security. It’s made things more perilous. 

There is only one long term solution to Israel’s security and that is the establishment of a peaceful, prosperous state of Palestine alongside it. No matter how difficult that goal is, unless it happens Israel will never be safe. 

Thats your opinion of course.  But i don't think Israel agrees with you 

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16 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

C’mon, the world is not going to allow Hamas to have a say in a potential Palestinian state, you know this.

The world wouldn't allow Hamas to launch a surprise attack on israel.  But wow.  Look what happened

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Just now, supermike80 said:

The world wouldn't allow Hamas to launch a surprise attack on israel.  But wow.  Look what happened

False equivalence

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24 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Feeding starving people is not really a carrot cake. It’s something that we should do, full stop. 
As far as the stick- the existence of the State of Israel itself is enough of one. It’s not going away. Sooner or later the Palestinian people will have to accept this or their lives will always be miserable, Hamas or not. 

You always add your dumb full stop to the simplest of arguments. Yeah. Lets make sure people dont die of starvation.  Full stop.  Course its like 100x more complicated than that.  But hey at least you feel good saying it.

The food and aid distribution absolutely must be supervised. Full stop

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3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

False equivalence

Youre so damn simple.  The w9rld doesnt want Hamas running things now... but they are.  Why cant you stop letting feelings run your thoughts??

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7 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

What is Hamas trying to accomplish by posting videos of them torturing their hostages?  I was told their propaganda was to blame everything on the IDF that’s supposedly their fault, so this is kinda the opposite of that, no?

https://twitter.com/EylonALevy/status/1951668818167681329

 

 

Dude.  What is wrong with you.  Like seriously.   Twitter?  Twitter is fact now?  Ugh.   Ok. Im moving on.   I cant do this with people that simple in thought.  Its more work than i wanna put into this.

God bless

   

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1 minute ago, supermike80 said:

Youre so damn simple.  The w9rld doesnt want Hamas running things now... but they are.  Why cant you stop letting feelings run your thoughts??

It’s not an actual member of the UN though.  

You seem to be playing both sides of the coin by talking about no one being able to stop Hamas running things, but also said that we’d be giving them what they want by recognizing a two-state solution.  If they’re good running things as is, why would they care about us recognizing a two-state solution?

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3 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

Dude.  What is wrong with you.  Like seriously.   Twitter?  Twitter is fact now?  Ugh.   Ok. Im moving on.   I cant do this with people that simple in thought.  Its more work than i wanna put into this.

God bless

   

Huh, are you denying Hamas has released videos of their starving hostages, including one digging his own grave?  Be careful, Jerry and strike might call you Hamas Harry!

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4 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

It’s not an actual member of the UN though.  

You seem to be playing both sides of the coin by talking about no one being able to stop Hamas running things, but also said that we’d be giving them what they want by recognizing a two-state solution.  If they’re good running things as is, why would they care about us recognizing a two-state solution?

My God.  PLEASE..i beg you.  Stop responding to me, put me on ignore.  Whatever works.  

Where on any planet anywhere did i say they are good at running things.  

Please.  Just leave me alone.   I don't have the energy for this kind of crap

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6 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

My God.  PLEASE..i beg you.  Stop responding to me, put me on ignore.  Whatever works.  

Where on any planet anywhere did i say they are good at running things.  

Please.  Just leave me alone.   I don't have the energy for this kind of crap

I didn’t say “good at,” I said “they’re good,” as in they’re happy.  Sorry if you misunderstood.

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1 hour ago, The Real timschochet said:

Let’s be clear about this point too: what Israel has done in the last nearly two years (since October 7) has NOT increased its security. It’s made things more perilous. 

There is only one long term solution to Israel’s security and that is the establishment of a peaceful, prosperous state of Palestine alongside it. No matter how difficult that goal is, unless it happens Israel will never be safe. 

Eviscerating Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran makes Israel weaker?  Who knew?  Good thing you aren't controlling Israel's defense.  

1 hour ago, TimHauck said:

C’mon, the world is not going to allow Hamas to have a say in a potential Palestinian state, you know this.

And Hamas knows this, hence why they won't negotiate.  It's a conundrum wrapped in an enigma.  Perhaps Israel should do like TimS suggests:  leave Palestine, cater a bunch of Qdoba to them, and give Hamas a stern talking to.  :thumbsup: 

37 minutes ago, supermike80 said:

My God.  PLEASE..i beg you.  Stop responding to me, put me on ignore.  Whatever works.  

Where on any planet anywhere did i say they are good at running things.  

Please.  Just leave me alone.   I don't have the energy for this kind of crap

It's exhausting, isn't it?  :( 

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On 7/31/2025 at 8:04 PM, The Real timschochet said:

The popularity of Hamas among the Palestinians is that they begin with an in your face unbending position. It’s been shown time and again that most people prefer leaders who fight back; this aspect is far more important than any position they hold. Thus, Hamas is much more popular with young Palestinians than Al Fatah which is seen as weak for working with Israel. If you don’t understand this, then you understand very little about this conflict. 

 

On 7/31/2025 at 8:06 PM, Strike said:

Cool.  So you acknowledge that Hamas is the duly elected government of Gaza.  As such, their people deserve whatever fate befalls them.  I'm glad we agree.  Now can you tell your namesake all of this as well.

 

On 7/31/2025 at 8:14 PM, The Real timschochet said:

No. You can’t be duly elected 20 years ago. I was explaining the reason for Hamas’ previous popularity. Now that there is starvation? Who knows? But it’s all conjecture since there is no election, nobody to challenge Hamas for leadership. 

I also disagree with your second point. Even if people elect a terrible leader who causes them to suffer and die, that doesn’t mean the people who voted for him deserve that fate. The vast majority of Palestinians alive today have never voted in any election at all in their lives. But even the ones who did, if they did not partake directly in the crimes of the Hamas leadership, do not deserve to suffer the consequences of that leadership. There is no such thing as collective guilt. 

 

On 7/31/2025 at 11:30 PM, The Real timschochet said:

What is your point? Are you trying to claim that Hamas’ government is legitimate after 20 years of no elections? That would be very naive of you. 

 

On 8/1/2025 at 12:20 AM, Strike said:

I have no idea.  Do they even have a constitution?  You and the other Tim are the ones asserting that Hamas is not the legitimate government in Gaza, which I find curious since no one in the international community has made that assertion and they would probably know better than any of us.  So I'm asking you guys to support that assertion with something credible.  In my research all I seem to find is that they seem to have elections very rarely there and they like to postpone them a lot.  But I haven't dug that much in to it because it doesn't really matter to me.  It seems to matter to you though.

 

On 8/1/2025 at 2:05 AM, TimHauck said:

I’m not the one who keeps repeating the “bUt HaMaS wAs ElEcTeD!” line.

Maybe they’re still “legitimate,” but the phrase that I took issue with was calling them “duly elected” despite most people that live there not even being alive the last time they won an election.  I don’t know how often they’re supposed to have elections either.  Surely it’s more often than 20 years though.

 

On 8/1/2025 at 8:50 AM, Strike said:

Why do you say that?  What do you base that 20 year timeframe on?  The little bit of research I've done suggests elections are very random there and often postponed.  I don't know what, if any, laws they have regarding elections.  Your stance seems to be based on American ideals but not every place is America.  Is Kim Jong Un (sp) the legitimate leader of N. Korea?  I would say yes despite it being a very ugly situation over there.  But that seems to be how their government is set up.  But Hamas was duly elected and until you show me some proof that they're violating some law regarding holding elections, they're the legitimate government there.  Regardless of your personal, emotion filled FEELINGS.

 

On 8/1/2025 at 11:10 AM, Strike said:

I'll take silence from the Tim's as them acknowledging they have no proof to support their assertion that Hamas is not the legitimate, duly elected government of Gaza.  :bandana:

 

On 8/1/2025 at 11:54 AM, The Real timschochet said:

No take it as being flabbergasted that you would make the argument. 

There is no legitimate government on Earth that is over 20 years old without an election. Legitimacy requires periodic elections, at MOST every 6 years or so (depending on the system, whether it’s a republic or parliamentary democracy.) 

We are forced to work with, and recognize, many dictatorship countries. But that doesn’t make them legitimate. If their citizens are unable to express themselves politically through periodic free elections, they are not. 

 

On 8/1/2025 at 2:02 PM, Gepetto said:

@The Real timschochet Strike said duly elected government, not legitimate government. Your definition of legitimate government could be questioned, but putting that aside, why don't you answer the question as it was posed?

 

23 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

I thought I did. Hamas was duly elected 20 years ago. Because they have stayed in power since that time without elections I don’t regard them as a legitimate government. 

But there is an even bigger point to be made here. The implication that @Strike and others are making is: the Palestinian people chose this government, therefore they are responsible for the crimes committed by this government and must suffer the consequences. Even IF I regarded Hamas as a legitimate government, I still wouldn’t accept this premise. I don’t believe in collective responsibility. 

 

23 hours ago, The Real timschochet said:

Let me go even further: let’s say that every living Palestinian, man, woman, child, was fully supportive of Hamas, fully enthusiastic of their goals, fully cognizant and gung ho about everything Hamas is doing or plans to do. Even then, they still would not be responsible for the crimes of Hamas unless they took a direct part in those crimes, they still should not have to suffer the consequences. IMO. 

 

19 hours ago, Strike said:

Yes Tim, unfortunately that's how WAR works.  It's unfortunate that the Japanese people in Hiroshima had to bite the bullet for the war their government chose to get them involved in, but that's how one side wins and one side loses.  As I said earlier today, you're s simpleton.  And apparently there's at least one other simpleton on this bored because someone actually liked the post above.  

Taking the dog for a walk and wanted to recap some of the relevant posts relating to my point about Strike saying Gazans “deserve whatever fate befalls them”  (direct quote).  I left out ones I didn’t feel were relevant so not all of these were in direct response to each other.  But notably the last two from RealTim and Strike were.  

To summarize:

1) Strike said Gazans “deserve whatever fate befalls them” (direct quote) because they elected Hamas 20 years ago.

2) RealTim says that even if Hamas was elected recently, the civilians still wouldn’t deserve to die, then reiterated this again in a later post.

3) Strike then uses his Hiroshima comparison.   
 

I suppose Strike may try to quibble over RealTim in his second post saying “responsible for” rather than “deserve” which was the focus of original conversation.  But he didn’t call that out in his last post here, which was in direct response to that one from RealTim and which is the one where he brought up Hiroshima, AND starts out with the phrase “Yes Tim, unfortunately that’s how WAR works” (direct quote).

So for Strike, the question remains:

1) Did the Japanese in Hiroshima deserve to get bombed?

2) If not, how is that relevant to the conversation above?

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37 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

 

And Hamas knows this, hence why they won't negotiate.  It's a conundrum wrapped in an enigma. 

So do you agree that recognizing a Palestinian state isn’t “giving Hamas what they want”?

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1 hour ago, supermike80 said:

Thats your opinion of course.  But i don't think Israel agrees with you 

Many Israelis do. Your idea that “Israel” has an opinion is as stupid as your previous “ask China”. So ironic that you call other people simple. 

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3 minutes ago, TimHauck said:

So do you agree that recognizing a Palestinian state isn’t “giving Hamas what they want”?

I'm not playing this game.  Make your point.

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1 minute ago, The Real timschochet said:

Many Israelis do. Your idea that “Israel” has an opinion is as stupid as your previous “ask China”. So ironic that you call other people simple. 

Do you know the demographics of this Israeli "support"?  I'm guessing it correlates pretty highly with people who get their news from TikTok.  Which is to say, young people with no real life wisdom.  :thumbsup: 

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45 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Eviscerating Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran makes Israel weaker?  Who knew?  Good thing you aren't controlling Israel's defense.  

 

I was specifically referring to their actions in Gaza and yes it has absolutely made Israel weaker. I get this is hard for you to understand. I would recommend watching the film “The Battle for Algiers” about France’s efforts to control Algeria in the late 1950s. There are tremendous parallels. 

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3 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

Do you know the demographics of this Israeli "support"?  I'm guessing it correlates pretty highly with people who get their news from TikTok.  Which is to say, young people with no real life wisdom.  :thumbsup: 

Israeli support for a two state solution is about 30% last I checked. Israeli opposition to the current actions in Gaza hover between 19-25% a few months ago. It’s still a minority but a growing one. Whether or not it’s mostly young people, that I don’t know. But I reject your opinion that young people are somehow less wise. Opposition to the Vietnam War in this country began with young people and they were generally right. Young people are right, IMO, about many issues in this country, particularly about climate change and woke issues- much more so than the politicians you have trusted with your votes. 

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5 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

I was specifically referring to their actions in Gaza and yes it has absolutely made Israel weaker. I get this is hard for you to understand. I would recommend watching the film “The Battle for Algiers” about France’s efforts to control Algeria in the late 1950s. There are tremendous parallels. 

Maybe they should give all of Israel to Hamas.  Think how strong they'd be then$#@!

Israel would happily co-exist with a peaceful Palestinian region.  Unfortunately, for my entire lifetime, those people elect terrorist regimes generation after generation.  But this generation would be different, right Tim?

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2 minutes ago, The Real timschochet said:

Israeli support for a two state solution is about 30% last I checked. Israeli opposition to the current actions in Gaza hover between 19-25% a few months ago. It’s still a minority but a growing one. Whether or not it’s mostly young people, that I don’t know. But I reject your opinion that young people are somehow less wise. Opposition to the Vietnam War in this country began with young people and they were generally right. Young people are right, IMO, about many issues in this country, particularly about climate change and woke issues- much more so than the politicians you have trusted with your votes. 

In a vacuum, a single young person can have more life experience and wisdom than an older person, if that older person were say a trust fund kid who manages his father's commercial real estate holdings.  But as a collective, older people are wiser.  That's kind of the definition of wisdom.  Today's young people in particular have been raised in a participation trophy atmosphere where they are never told that they are wrong or their ideas are stupid.  

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1 minute ago, jerryskids said:

Maybe they should give all of Israel to Hamas.  Think how strong they'd be then$#@!

Israel would happily co-exist with a peaceful Palestinian region.  Unfortunately, for my entire lifetime, those people elect terrorist regimes generation after generation.  But this generation would be different, right Tim?

1. No they shouldn’t. Strawman point, beneath you. 

2. This is a false statement. The Netanyahu government, and the extreme right wing of the coalition they represent, is opposed to a Palestinian government no matter who is in charge. They view the Palestinians in Biblical terms as a people that Jehovah will eventually exterminate so that the Jews can occupy both sides of the Jordan River. Their views on this is as fanatical as Hamas and unless you understand this you fail to understand the whole situation. 

3. Palestinians for your entire lifetime have been forced to live in economic destitution with overcrowding and starvation and no hope whatsoever. Of course when they (very rarely) have the chance to choose leaders they choose the most radical, most extreme. We need to change the fundamental aspects of their existence before we can hope to change this. 

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21 minutes ago, jerryskids said:

I'm not playing this game.  Make your point.

I thought my point was pretty clear.  I don’t consider recognizing a Palestinian state as giving Hamas what they want (as @supermike80 suggested).

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