G-Men: P-L-E-A-S-E don't pull a "Browns"-type move ..

[seafoam1 1,879]

It will be funny to watch the manning family rally the troups to get eli into the hall of fame. The only career stat they could throw out there would be that he was on 2 superbowl winning teams.

[MDC 5,892]

It will be funny to watch the manning family rally the troups to get eli into the hall of fame. The only career stat they could throw out there would be that he was on 2 superbowl winning teams.

Hes also a 2x SB MVP, 4x Pro Bowler and in the Top 10 in career passing yards (6) and touchdowns (8). When it comes to the HOF, longevity and championships matter.

[seafoam1 1,879]

Hes also a 2x SB MVP, 4x Pro Bowler and in the Top 10 in career passing yards (6) and touchdowns (8). When it comes to the HOF, longevity and championships matter.

8 of the last 11 years they made a QB the mvp of the superbowl. That's what they do when noone stands out in the game, give it to the QB. Offense was not dominant in those 2 superbowls. Nick Foles is a superbowl mvp and he is a backup in the league but he deserved it more than manning did for sure.

 

Eli manning was never a regular season mvp.

 

4 pro bowls in 13 years does not a HOF player make. Some guys become pro bowlers because other guys can't or don't want to play in the game.

 

He is only 20 interceptions away from being top 10 in interceptions.

 

His TD/Int is 1.49. That's just terrible. And just for comparison, Aaron Rodgers has a 4.01, and Brady has a 3.05.

 

His career completion % is 59.8. Brees has a 66.9, Roethlisberger 64.1, Rodgers 65.1, Brady 63.9.

 

Like I said, it will be funny to watch that family try to sell him to the HOF like a used car salesman selling a Ford Pinto.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

Eli never played in one of those low pct pass it to the RB's offenses that help a QB's completion percentage. He's always been more of a downfield passer, that's the offense that Gilbride ran. Amazing people don't know this. They were on TV a lot. Anyone who understands the modern game knows this. If you're a stat loser you might not.

[MDC 5,892]

Eli is overrated. That said he was/is incredible durable, played at a good level for a long time, and won two championships while putting himself in the Top 10 in TD passes and yards. He is a no brainer HOFer.

[weepaws 2,460]

Beating the Bradys twice in the Super Bowl is good enough for me.

 

Lol.

 

Thanks

[Smileseers 54]

8 of the last 11 years they made a QB the mvp of the superbowl. That's what they do when noone stands out in the game, give it to the QB. Offense was not dominant in those 2 superbowls. Nick Foles is a superbowl mvp and he is a backup in the league but he deserved it more than manning did for sure.

 

Eli manning was never a regular season mvp.

 

4 pro bowls in 13 years does not a HOF player make. Some guys become pro bowlers because other guys can't or don't want to play in the game.

 

He is only 20 interceptions away from being top 10 in interceptions.

 

His TD/Int is 1.49. That's just terrible. And just for comparison, Aaron Rodgers has a 4.01, and Brady has a 3.05.

 

His career completion % is 59.8. Brees has a 66.9, Roethlisberger 64.1, Rodgers 65.1, Brady 63.9.

 

Like I said, it will be funny to watch that family try to sell him to the HOF like a used car salesman selling a Ford Pinto.

There are plenty of hall of fame QBs in the top 15 in throwing the most interceptions. Eli is currently tied with Drew Brees with 228. Warren Moon has, Fouts 242, Bobby Lane 243, Dan Marino 252, Farve who tops the list at 336. Eli's brother Peyton threw 251 picks in his career. Absolutely a pathetic argument as to why Eli does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

 

Only Peyton, Farve, Brees, Brady, Marino have throw for more yards in the history of the NFL than Eli Manning. Eli has 66 more Tds than Joe Montana going into this season.

 

Your Ford Pinto comparison is ridiculous. The only person you should be laughing at is yourself.

[seafoam1 1,879]

The only argument for him being in the HOF is his longevity. But nearly every season his numbers are pedestrian.

 

After next year he may even have a losing record as a starting QB. Currently he is 119-107 or something like that. Only the 8th QB in history with more than 100 losses.

[weepaws 2,460]

I was looking at the list of most passing tds.

 

And I notice someone who’s numbers where a surprise to me.

 

And that’s P Rivers.

 

He’s played in 20 less games then Eli, he’s att 904 less passes but has thrown for more tds 342 / 339 then Eli.

 

Plus Rivers has thrown for 62 less ints.

 

228 for Eli, 166 for Rivers.

 

Rivers will be judged because his teams didn’t win much, but he has outstanding numbers.

 

Much better then I thought.

 

One more thing Eli also as 2005 more passing att then the great Montana.

 

I would never compare those two QBs too each other.

 

Thanks.

[seafoam1 1,879]

Here's a decent article on Mannings mediocrity:

 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.forbes.com/sites/briangoff/2017/09/25/eli-manning-an-average-nfl-quarterback-with-two-super-bowl-rings/amp/

 

And a few quotes from the article...

 

"By almost any metric available, Manning is strikingly average. His career passer rating of 83.8 would be below average for most individual seasons"

 

"For critics of passer rating as a guide to quarterback performance, Manning doesnt fare much better using other stats. His QBR range (42 to 69) is lower than that of any in this group other than Sam Bradford. His figure for yards per pass attempt (7.1) is near the bottom. His touchdown-to-interception ratio of 1.6 puts him below everyone other than Jay Cutler. His winning percentage in starts is 54%, better than that of Bradford, Cutler and Carson Palmer. In fact, his numbers are amazingly similar to Cutlers, and I dont know of anyone who would describe Cutler as a really good NFL quarterback"

 

"Critics might add that Manning won the MVP in both of his Super Bowl appearances, but Simms and Rypien also won the award, and that didnt convert them into great quarterbacks on a career basis. (Also, Im still not sure how the Giants great defensive effort and a circus catch to extend the game in the 2008 Super Bowl turned Mannings pedestrian numbers into an MVP award.)"

 

There are a bunch of articles written as well as straight up stats that point out manning's average play over the length of his career, but it seems like many of you here don't even question him being a soon to be HOF guy.

 

If the HOF uses longevity as an auto vote into the HOF, then I suppose that is what the criteria is. But for a starting QB to have less wins over .500 than years starting as QB in the league, then I just don't buy in, especially with below average stats on a yearly basis.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

Eli Manning is a perfectly adequate QB. He's a guy who won't hurt you, but won't carry you, but a guy who can help you win if the team is good enough. He's really no different than Joe Flacco. Neither are H.O.F. caliber.

[MDC 5,892]

Eli Manning is a perfectly adequate QB. He's a guy who won't hurt you, but won't carry you, but a guy who can help you win if the team is good enough. He's really no different than Joe Flacco. Neither are H.O.F. caliber.

The only reasons Eli will be in the HOF:

 

1. Career stats / longevity. Just starting virtually every game over a 14-year career and being mostly above average to good is impressive.

2. Two Super Bowl championships.

 

Without either of those two he may be borderline. Considering both he is a mortal lock.

 

In 20 years with the way stats are going though Eli will look less impressive.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

The only reasons Eli will be in the HOF:

 

1. Career stats / longevity. Just starting virtually every game over a 14-year career and being mostly above average to good is impressive.

2. Two Super Bowl championships.

 

Without either of those two he may be borderline. Considering both he is a mortal lock.

 

In 20 years with the way stats are going though Eli will look less impressive.

 

He was almost NEVER "above average to good". He was ALWAYS mediocre.

 

IF he gets into the H.O.F., it's purely because he played in NY.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

 

He was almost NEVER "above average to good". He was ALWAYS mediocre.

 

IF he gets into the H.O.F., it's purely because he played in NY.

Never? He threw for almost 5k in 2011, and won a ring while the rest of his team took most of the season off.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

 

He was almost NEVER "above average to good". He was ALWAYS mediocre.

 

IF he gets into the H.O.F., it's purely because he played in NY.

 

 

One season does not make a career.

 

His numbers are on par with Jay Cutler, Andy Dalton, and Joe Flacco... pretty much across the board. None of them are H.O.F.'ers either.

 

Without counting his first year against him, he barely completes 60% of his passes, he's barely over 1.5 TD's per Int, and he's barely over 7.0 in yards per attempt. That's not H.O.F. worthy. Sorry.

 

In a sport where anyone can make a Pro Bowl (because so many turn the opportunity down), he's only be nominated to 4. Yes, that includes the number of times he turned down the offer.

 

For more proof of being in NY is the only reason why Eli is so highly regarded, go look at Mark Brunell. For his career, in Jacksonville, he was....

• 9 games over .500 (slightly better than Eli [8 game over .500])
• completed 60.4% of his passes (slightly better than Eli [59.8%])
• 4.0 TD % (worse than Eli [4.6])
• 2.4 Int % (better than Eli [3.1])
• 7.1 yards per attempt (slightly better than Eli [7.0])
• an 85.4 passer rating (slightly better than Eli [83.5]
• In his 9 years in Jacksonville, he made the playoffs 5 times, same as Eli in his first 9 season.

[Cruzer 1,992]

2 time SB champion, 2x SB MVP, QB in the Big Apple, with the last name of Manning?

 

He's a lock - period.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

2 time SB champion, 2x SB MVP, QB in the Big Apple, with the last name of Manning?

 

He's a lock - period.

 

I don't think he's a lock. I don't think he gets in. The H.O.F. is for greatness. He doesn't belong.

[Cruzer 1,992]

 

I don't think he's a lock. I don't think he gets in. The H.O.F. is for greatness. He doesn't belong.

I'm by no means endorsing him, and on some points I agree......... Just saying that there's no way a 2 time SB champion from the Giants, with the last name of Manning - doesn't get in.

 

If I had to bet, for my money - 1st ballot too.

[seafoam1 1,879]

I'm by no means endorsing him, and on some points I agree......... Just saying that there's no way a 2 time SB champion from the Giants, with the last name of Manning - doesn't get in.

 

If I had to bet, for my money - 1st ballot too.

That was my whole point at the start of this manning HOF chat. If he gets in, it will only be because of manning family politics. He does not belong there. Why not just put Phil Simms in as well? He was better than manning.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

If he gets in, he gets in... he'll just join the likes of Troy Aikman and Joe Namath who don't belong there.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

That was my whole point at the start of this manning HOF chat. If he gets in, it will only be because of manning family politics. He does not belong there. Why not just put Phil Simms in as well? He was better than manning.

Simms shouid be in, Bavaro, Banks and Bart Oates as well. Maybe even Landetta now that the ice has been broken on punters.

[seafoam1 1,879]

Eli never played in one of those low pct pass it to the RB's offenses that help a QB's completion percentage. He's always been more of a downfield passer, that's the offense that Gilbride ran. Amazing people don't know this. They were on TV a lot. Anyone who understands the modern game knows this. If you're a stat loser you might not.

Stat loser? And eli has always been a downfield passer?

 

I find it amazing that people don't his career passing yards per attempt was 7 yards per pass. One of the lowest of all QBs. And still he was below 60% completion %.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

Stat loser? And eli has always been a downfield passer?

 

I find it amazing that people don't his career passing yards per attempt was 7 yards per pass. One of the lowest of all QBs. And still he was below 60% completion %.

He was under Gilbride. Mcaddo changed it.

[seafoam1 1,879]

He was under Gilbride. Mcaddo changed it.

Only 2 years in his career was he over 7.4. Anyway, I guess what you are saying is that Manning was held back by his coaching for 11 of his 13 years in the league, otherwise he would be Tom Brady. That's good enough for a HOF argument.

 

I'm saying right now that Bob Avellini was totally held back by Jack Pardee. He should be in the argument as well for HOF.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

Only 2 years in his career was he over 7.4. Anyway, I guess what you are saying is that Manning was held back by his coaching for 11 of his 13 years in the league, otherwise he would be Tom Brady. That's good enough for a HOF argument.

 

I'm saying right now that Bob Avellini was totally held back by Jack Pardee. He should be in the argument as well for HOF.

I loved Gilbrides offense. So did Eli. Not saying that at all.

[weepaws 2,460]

2 time SB champion, 2x SB MVP, QB in the Big Apple, with the last name of Manning?

 

He's a lock - period.

Agreed.

 

I don’t see why anyone can even question the fact that he will be voted in.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Agreed.

 

I dont see why anyone can even question the fact that he will be voted in.

Theyre saying he shouldnt. And theyre right.

[redsrback 30]

Something to be said about momentum. Ive often got Eli at the end of drafts and been hot n cold. But i also did this with Brady a few years. Peyton Manning had years of momentum till the end of his career was apparent, not worthy fantasy wise, yet able to win a super-bowl.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,652]

Eli's coming. Deal with it.

[MDC 5,892]

 

He was almost NEVER "above average to good". He was ALWAYS mediocre.

 

IF he gets into the H.O.F., it's purely because he played in NY.

Elis seasons from 2009-2012 and 2014-2016 were all above average / probably among the Top 10 in those years. Thats 6 very good seasons. On stats alone he probably would be close but not in. Given the longevity and titles hes a lock, despite being overrated as a passer and garbage today.

[weepaws 2,460]

Theyre saying he shouldnt. And theyre right.

Disagree.

 

I think he will and should.

[TBayXXXVII 2,117]

Elis seasons from 2009-2012 and 2014-2016 were all above average / probably among the Top 10 in those years. Thats 6 very good seasons. On stats alone he probably would be close but not in. Given the longevity and titles hes a lock, despite being overrated as a passer and garbage today.

 

Yes, you can point to 1 stat here or there in a certain year where he was top 10... but you CAN'T point to any group of stats over a long period of time where he was top 3. If you're not even in the top 5 of your era, how can you even justify an H.O.F. nomination?

 

In his career, he finished in the top 10 ONCE, in completion percentage (2010 [61.9%], ranked 9th). His 59.8% ranks him 21st among active QB's. In an era where passing yards come very easily, he ranked in the top 10 only 6 times, only 3 in the top 5. He has thrown a lot of TD's... but also a lot of Int's. His ration is extremely poor. Why? Because he's not very accurate. On top of the quantity of Int's, he's currently #1 among active QB's in fumbles... and #9 all time.

 

If you look at pro-football-reference.com "Similar players" section, look at the list of names in "Career". Ask yourself if any of these guys are H.O.F. QB's. First, the guys of his era...

• Mark Brunell - NO
• Ben Roethlisberger - YES (why he's compared to Ben, I have no idea, Ben is way better)
• Tony Romo - NO
• Donovan McNabb - NO
• Carson Palmer - NO

 

No the one's of an outdated era...

• Jim Kelly - YES
• Steve McNair - NO
• Terry Bradshaw - YES
• Drew Bledsoe - NO
• Troy Aikman - YES

So, if you compare him to guys of his era, he's not really in the conversation. If you look at guys outside his era, then he has a better argument... though, as I said above, I don't think Aikman belongs in either. But the point is, his numbers jive with players of an older era. Players who in today's game would not make it... just like Eli, who shouldn't.

 

Eli is a "fine" QB. He's "good". But, it's called the "Hall of FAME", not the "Hall of GOOD" or the "Hall of FINE". He doesn't belong in.

[weepaws 2,460]

I disagree, I think it’s more of the Hall of Good.

 

I think there is a shortage of great.

 

And they someone too make the Hall of Good.

 

I don’t think there will be any question about it , that he will get voted into the Hall of Good.

 

Thanks.

[Ray_T 591]

I was looking at the list of most passing tds.

 

And I notice someone who’s numbers where a surprise to me.

 

And that’s P Rivers.

 

He’s played in 20 less games then Eli, he’s att 904 less passes but has thrown for more tds 342 / 339 then Eli.

 

Plus Rivers has thrown for 62 less ints.

 

228 for Eli, 166 for Rivers.

 

Rivers will be judged because his teams didn’t win much, but he has outstanding numbers.

 

Much better then I thought.

 

One more thing Eli also as 2005 more passing att then the great Montana.

 

I would never compare those two QBs too each other.

 

Thanks.

Rivers is probably the most underrated QB in the NFL. He did more in terms of production than many others out there did, and he had far less in terms of talent to work with. I'm predicting a big year for him this year.

[weepaws 2,460]

Yes I think Rivers will have another very good season.

 

I hope M Williams can deliver.

[redsrback 30]

Food for thought- I live in ohio and been to Canton Hall of Fame twice, once as a kid, and 3 years ago. We know Archie, Peyton, and Eli. Does hype go for a Phillip Rivers when many of you here talk of a place you never will go to, much like just reading a book. I didnt like the comment about Joe Namath, I have not done the research on stats. I do know as a kid I would of jumped for joy and rubbed it in my brothers face opening a pack of cards and getting his card. Namath did have some off the field notoriety, but so did Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders in the 70s.

[weepaws 2,460]

I would have voted for the cheerleaders over Namath.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Disagree.

 

I think he will and should.

Oh I know he will. Its all marketing though.

 

Eli was never a top five qb in the league. In his own era. Shouldnt be in.

 

Good career? Sure. Giants ring of honor? Sure. HOF is supposed to be for generational type players. Eli aint.

[MDC 5,892]

 

Yes, you can point to 1 stat here or there in a certain year where he was top 10... but you CAN'T point to any group of stats over a long period of time where he was top 3. If you're not even in the top 5 of your era, how can you even justify an H.O.F. nomination?

 

In his career, he finished in the top 10 ONCE, in completion percentage (2010 [61.9%], ranked 9th). His 59.8% ranks him 21st among active QB's. In an era where passing yards come very easily, he ranked in the top 10 only 6 times, only 3 in the top 5. He has thrown a lot of TD's... but also a lot of Int's. His ration is extremely poor. Why? Because he's not very accurate. On top of the quantity of Int's, he's currently #1 among active QB's in fumbles... and #9 all time.

 

If you look at pro-football-reference.com "Similar players" section, look at the list of names in "Career". Ask yourself if any of these guys are H.O.F. QB's. First, the guys of his era...

• Mark Brunell - NO
• Ben Roethlisberger - YES (why he's compared to Ben, I have no idea, Ben is way better)
• Tony Romo - NO
• Donovan McNabb - NO
• Carson Palmer - NO

No the one's of an outdated era...

• Jim Kelly - YES
• Steve McNair - NO
• Terry Bradshaw - YES
• Drew Bledsoe - NO
• Troy Aikman - YES

So, if you compare him to guys of his era, he's not really in the conversation. If you look at guys outside his era, then he has a better argument... though, as I said above, I don't think Aikman belongs in either. But the point is, his numbers jive with players of an older era. Players who in today's game would not make it... just like Eli, who shouldn't.

 

Eli is a "fine" QB. He's "good". But, it's called the "Hall of FAME", not the "Hall of GOOD" or the "Hall of FINE". He doesn't belong in.

Yeah well hes a mortal lock to get in so start preparing yourself for disappointment. HOF criteria is not a fine science and players are over rewarded for titles.

[weepaws 2,460]

Oh I know he will. Its all marketing though.

Eli was never a top five qb in the league. In his own era. Shouldnt be in.

Good career? Sure. Giants ring of honor? Sure. HOF is supposed to be for generational type players. Eli aint.

Agreed.

 

Great return.

 

Thanks.