149 replies to this topic

[Truck Jackson]

If in 2013 we also got the Rams first round pick and gave them our first round pick, are we giving up a first round pick then too? No. We wouldn't be. We'd still both have a first round pick.

Yes, you would have the 1st round pick you got from the Rams, after you gave them your 1st round pick. Just like above where you specifically said that Washington gave us 3 1st round picks.

[Kent]

Yes, you would have the 1st round pick you got from the Rams, after you gave them your 1st round pick. Just like above where you specifically said that Washington gave us 3 1st round picks.

You're willfully being ignorant here and I can't fathom why.

Did the Redskins kill your dog or something?

[Joey Gladstone]

This was a great deal for the Rams - they absolutely got max value for a pick they didn't want to use.

Whether the move was good for the Skins too depends entirely on how RG3 pans out. If he's a franchise type QB who plays at a high level for years, the cost was worth it. If he's merely an average starter, the Skins got fleeced.

We're not going to know the outcome for a few seasons. I hope RG3 busts hard but I really can't blame Washington for reaching for a guy who looks like a very rare, special talent.

This. It could be Leaf level stupidity or if he turns into a franchise guy he was worth the price paid.

Too much risk for me too. Looking back at the history of the moves the Redskins have made this probably won't work out.

[roroco]

http://profootballta...space/#comments

So no first rounds picks until 2015 and now no cap space... Yikes!

[Doozer]

Am I the only person on the planet who things RGIII will bust? As an NFL fan I hope he has an amazing career since he's likely to be an entertaining and exciting player to watch, but he put up gaudy numbers against terrible defenses in a pass happy offense. Big 12 defenses are scary bad.

[Kent]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/league-strips-cowboys-redskins-of-millions-in-cap-space/#comments

So no first rounds picks until 2015 and now no cap space... Yikes!

Actually, they have a first round pick this year.

But yes, that cap ruling came out of nowhere. I presume there will be some sort of appeal. Brutal.

[roroco]

Actually, they have a first round pick this year.

But yes, that cap ruling came out of nowhere. I presume there will be some sort of appeal. Brutal.

Jees... Get off the semantics battle already. We ALL know what was traded for what.

[Kent]

Jees... Get off the semantics battle already. We ALL know what was traded for what.

Peter King doesn't even have the semantics correct. Its really bizarre. It bothers me, sorry. Its not even semantics really.

[Truck Jackson]

You're willfully being ignorant here and I can't fathom why.

Did the Redskins kill your dog or something?

All I've done is directly quote you to support my argument, but before you try to degrade this any farther let me just ask.. Why you mad bro?

[Kent]

All I've done is directly quote you to support my argument, but before you try to degrade this any farther let me just ask.. Why you mad bro?

WTF are you talking about. All you did was cut off what I said to put it into an incorrect context. What is wrong with you?

Wait, are you a Browns fan?

You're wrong, get over it. Its okay that you're wrong. Its not the end of the world. Move on.

[Birdseed]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/03/12/league-strips-cowboys-redskins-of-millions-in-cap-space/#comments

So no first rounds picks until 2015 and now no cap space... Yikes!

Those first rounders the next couple years are looking even better!

[Fantasy Noob]

I am fairly certain he is baiting you. I would let it go, everyone else gets it. It was only two 1st rounders, a second rounder and a swap of this years draft positions in the first rounds.

This does seem like too much to give up as next years draft pick is likely to be a top 10 pick at least. That is a tough division, and most rookie QB's struggle their first year this kind of adds up to being a bad next year for the Redskins. Kind of wish they could protect the pick if it was top 5 like the NBA does.

If I was a Redskins fan I would be terrified that Shanahan in an effort to protect his job throws the rookie under the bus. He has already done this in the past to Jake Plummer and Donovan Mcnabb. I seem to recall him doing this to Cutler a little bit to, it seems to be his preferred motivational tactic. Not sure I trust Shanahan at this stage in his coaching career to be patient and teach a rookie QB for the good of the franchise, but maybe the tough love strategy will payoff.

[Truck Jackson]

WTF are you talking about. All you did was cut off what I said to put it into an incorrect context. What is wrong with you?

Wait, are you a Browns fan?

You're wrong, get over it. Its okay that you're wrong. Its not the end of the world. Move on.

Don't get mad, say what you mean or mean what you say.

Breaking News, it has just been reported that the Skins have now swapped their 39th pick with the Rams 2nd pick, and they have in fact given up 3 1st round draft picks in addition to this.

[kutulu]

Actually, they have a first round pick this year.

But yes, that cap ruling came out of nowhere. I presume there will be some sort of appeal. Brutal.

Pretty sure there is no appeal in a case like this. Players can appeal NFL punishments, not teams.

Edit: the players union agreed to the punishment...otherwise its in viloation of the labor contact.

[Kent]

Pretty sure there is no appeal in a case like this. Players can appeal NFL punishments, not teams.

Edit: the players union agreed to the punishment...otherwise its in viloation of the labor contact.

They might get an appeal because the uncapped season had NFL approval of all the moves made by Dallas and Washington. So how they they allow something and then retroactively punish.

Who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to do something about the ruling. Just have to wait for more details to emerge. Maybe the Skins and Boys knew this was coming.

[kutulu]

They might get an appeal because the uncapped season had NFL approval of all the moves made by Dallas and Washington. So how they they allow something and then retroactively punish.

Who knows. I wouldn't be surprised if they tried to do something about the ruling. Just have to wait for more details to emerge. Maybe the Skins and Boys knew this was coming.

I see your point. Interesting case study...with free agency to start tomorrow seems short on time for an appeal. Maybe if they were to win they would get extra cap space down the road....

[Portis26]

I see your point. Interesting case study...with free agency to start tomorrow seems short on time for an appeal. Maybe if they were to win they would get extra cap space down the road....

The trade isn't legit til tomorrow so they prolly can still bsck out. Or trade to Browns for same package

[IGotWorms]

Wow that salary cap stuff was pretty harsh. $36 million! It doesn't really seem fair to me. What they did wasn't technically against the rules. How can the League now come in and penalize them that heavily when they were operating within the letter of the law at the time?

That said, Washington is totally screwed. Everyone said "oh it's OK that we won't have high draft picks for a few years, we have tons of cap space!"

[Kent]

Wow that salary cap stuff was pretty harsh. $36 million! It doesn't really seem fair to me. What they did wasn't technically against the rules. How can the League now come in and penalize them that heavily when they were operating within the letter of the law at the time?

That said, Washington is totally screwed. Everyone said "oh it's OK that we won't have high draft picks for a few years, we have tons of cap space!"

Yeah, and the timing of this ruling could not have been worse.

They'll pay the 36 mil over two years though, so I can see them paying 18 million this year and still being active in FA. The Skins will fill some position need this FA season.

[Laurence Maroney's Nuts]

The Skins didn't lose cap space. Cap space was removed from the Skins' existing cap...

{fun with semantics}

[IGotWorms]

The Skins didn't lose cap space. Cap space was removed from the Skins' existing cap...

{fun with semantics}

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy!]

The Skins didn't lose cap space. Cap space was removed from the Skins' existing cap...

{fun with semantics}

No no no. They swaped cap space and got back a lack of cap space. It was a trade.

[Gepetto]

No no no. They swaped cap space and got back a lack of cap space. It was a trade.

Not true since there was no cap in 2010.

[Shogun of Harlem]

Peter King doesn't even have the semantics correct. Its really bizarre. It bothers me, sorry. Its not even semantics really.

Because it's not what the Skins traded to move a few spots, or swap picks etc.

It's What did the skins TRADE to get RG3.

and the answer is 3 ones and a 2nd.

That's what will go in the history books, not 2 ones and a 2nd plus a swap of ones.

[sirensong]

Because it's not what the Skins traded to move a few spots, or swap picks etc.

It's What did the skins TRADE to get RG3.

and the answer is 3 ones and a 2nd.

That's what will go in the history books, not 2 ones and a 2nd plus a swap of ones.

yeah, this is what it comes down to. the colts will use a first round pick on luck. the skins will use 3 firsts and a second on RG.

[Portis26]

I'm happy we have shot at a potential game changer at the QB position. If it doesn't pan out, then so be it.. We tried

[jgcrawfish]

Because it's not what the Skins traded to move a few spots, or swap picks etc.

It's What did the skins TRADE to get RG3.

and the answer is 3 ones and a 2nd.

That's what will go in the history books, not 2 ones and a 2nd plus a swap of ones.

Um, the Skins don't have RGIII, and the didn't give up three 1sts and a 2nd. Here's an easy analogy for the See Spot Run crowd...

Excellent Quality Diamonds = $1000/carat
Lower Quality Diamonds = $200/carat

Les finds an excellent quality 10 carat diamond worth $10,000 dollars in a diamond mine. Bruce also finds an excellent quality diamond, however this one is about 8 carats and worth $8000. Bruce knows how rare that 10 carat diamond is and offers to trade Les his 8 carat diamond, plus some extra stuff, for Les' 10 carat stone. After negotiating, Les and Bruce come to an agreement. Bruce will send his excellent quality 8 carat diamond, plus the next two excellent quality diamonds he finds, and a lower quality diamond to Les in exchange for the 10 carat diamond. To make things simple, all diamonds involved must be at least 1 carat. Assuming the minimum possible value for each stone, Bruce is trading $10,200 worth of diamonds (One 8 carat excellent diamond $8000, two excellent future diamonds $1000 each, and one lower quality diamond $200) in exchange for Les' $10,000 excellent diamond. This would result in a net cost of $200 to acquire Les' diamond.

However, more than likely, Bruce will not find a small (minimum 1 carat) excellent diamond. Based on his success rate, Bruce is more likely to find two more excellent diamonds in the 4 to 7 carat range. Assuming one at the upper end and one at the lower end, that would be $7000 for the first one and $4000 for the second one. That would then make Bruce's offer $19,200 in diamonds in exchange for Les' $10,000 diamond, or a net cost of $9,200 to acquire the diamond.

The bottom line is this, Washington and St Louis are swapping picks...and the cost for Washington to swap that pick is two 1st's and 2nd. After the deal Washington still has a 1st round pick, the lose the 2nd round pick this year and the next two 1st round picks. It's 3 apples and one orange for 1 apple, or a net cost of 2 apples and an orange. It doesn't cost Washington 3 apples if they get an apple back. HTH.

[Shogun of Harlem]

Um, the Skins don't have RGIII, and the didn't give up three 1sts and a 2nd. Here's an easy analogy for the See Spot Run crowd...

Excellent Quality Diamonds = $1000/carat
Lower Quality Diamonds = $200/carat

Les finds an excellent quality 10 carat diamond worth $10,000 dollars in a diamond mine. Bruce also finds an excellent quality diamond, however this one is about 8 carats and worth $8000. Bruce knows how rare that 10 carat diamond is and offers to trade Les his 8 carat diamond, plus some extra stuff, for Les' 10 carat stone. After negotiating, Les and Bruce come to an agreement. Bruce will send his excellent quality 8 carat diamond, plus the next two excellent quality diamonds he finds, and a lower quality diamond to Les in exchange for the 10 carat diamond. To make things simple, all diamonds involved must be at least 1 carat. Assuming the minimum possible value for each stone, Bruce is trading $10,200 worth of diamonds (One 8 carat excellent diamond $8000, two excellent future diamonds $1000 each, and one lower quality diamond $200) in exchange for Les' $10,000 excellent diamond. This would result in a net cost of $200 to acquire Les' diamond.

However, more than likely, Bruce will not find a small (minimum 1 carat) excellent diamond. Based on his success rate, Bruce is more likely to find two more excellent diamonds in the 4 to 7 carat range. Assuming one at the upper end and one at the lower end, that would be $7000 for the first one and $4000 for the second one. That would then make Bruce's offer $19,200 in diamonds in exchange for Les' $10,000 diamond, or a net cost of $9,200 to acquire the diamond.

The bottom line is this, Washington and St Louis are swapping picks...and the cost for Washington to swap that pick is two 1st's and 2nd. After the deal Washington still has a 1st round pick, the lose the 2nd round pick this year and the next two 1st round picks. It's 3 apples and one orange for 1 apple, or a net cost of 2 apples and an orange. It doesn't cost Washington 3 apples if they get an apple back. HTH.

Ok that can be said TODAY (I know it sounds much better)
But what will you say AFTER the draft has taken place and the Skins pick RG3.
What will they have traded to get RG3 after the fact?

[Patriotsfatboy1]

Ok that can be said TODAY (I know it sounds much better)
But what will you say AFTER the draft has taken place and the Skins pick RG3.
What will they have traded to get RG3 after the fact?

I am going to guess he is going to say something about apples or oranges.

[jgcrawfish]

Ok that can be said TODAY (I know it sounds much better)
But what will you say AFTER the draft has taken place and the Skins pick RG3.
What will they have traded to get RG3 after the fact?

I predict they will have traded Justin Blackmon (apple), two firsts (apple, apple) and a 2nd (orange) to get Robert Griffin III (apple). Again, it's still just a net cost of 2 apples and an orange.

I am going to guess he is going to say something about apples or oranges.

[Phurfur]

I predict they will have traded Justin Blackmon (apple), two firsts (apple, apple) and a 2nd (orange) to get Robert Griffin III (apple). Again, it's still just a net cost of 2 apples and an orange.

That doesn't change anything, this is how the drafts will read the next 3 years:

Washington
2012 - 1st Round - RGIII
2012 - 2nd Round - Traded to StL for RGIII
2013 - 1st Round - Traded to StL for RGIII
2014 - 1st Round - Traded to StL for RGIII

Do the Math, three firsts + one second = RGIII

[Gepetto]

I predict they will have traded Justin Blackmon (apple), two firsts (apple, apple) and a 2nd (orange) to get Robert Griffin III (apple). Again, it's still just a net cost of 2 apples and an orange.

That's still a ton to get RGIII.

[Gepetto]

That doesn't change anything, this is how the drafts will read the next 3 years:

Washington
2012 - 1st Round - RGIII
2012 - 2nd Round - Traded to StL for RGIII
2013 - 1st Round - Traded to StL for RGIII
2014 - 1st Round - Traded to StL for RGIII

Do the Math, three firsts + one second = RGIII

Exactly

[Patriotsfatboy1]

I predict they will have traded Justin Blackmon (apple), two firsts (apple, apple) and a 2nd (orange) to get Robert Griffin III (apple). Again, it's still just a net cost of 2 apples and an orange.

I am a current day Nostradumbass

[Quickolas1]

I don't see the huge downside risk.

If RGIII is another Jamarcus Russell, they don't win a super bowl.
If they settle for Trent Dilfer (or Rex Grossman?), there is a chance, albeit very tiny, that they win a super bowl.
If RGIII is another Peyton Manning or Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees or Tom Brady, there's a good chance they win a super bowl.

Could very much argue not going for the top notch dynasty QB type is the risk.

Falcons gave up a 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 4th to move up for a WR...I would never do that.
Compared to 1st, 1st, 2nd to move up for maybe dynasty QB.

[jgcrawfish]

That doesn't change anything, this is how the drafts will read the next 3 years:

Washington
2012 - 1st Round - RGIII
2012 - 2nd Round - Traded to StL for RGIII
2013 - 1st Round - Traded to StL for RGIII
2014 - 1st Round - Traded to StL for RGIII

Do the Math, three firsts + one second = RGIII

your own statement proves you wrong, and it's your math. Here are the next four picks that Washington makes...I'll spell it out...

2012 - 1st Round (2nd pick)- WASHINGTON
2012 - 2nd Round - ST LOUIS
2013 - 1st Round - ST LOUIS
2014 - 1st Round - ST LOUIS

They didn't give up this years first round pick, in fact they got a better pick out of it. They gave up the next three items to move up a few spots. This years picks essentially cancel each other out...Washington doesn't lose a first round pick this year, in fact they get a better pick. If I need a quarter but only have 3 dimes, and I trade you my three dimes for that quarter...I didn't lose 30 cents, I lost 5 cents. Or it cost me 5 cents to get a quarter. I'm not sure how people don't get this.

[Gepetto]

your own statement proves you wrong, and it's your math. Here are the next four picks that Washington makes...I'll spell it out...

2012 - 1st Round (2nd pick)- WASHINGTON
2012 - 2nd Round - ST LOUIS
2013 - 1st Round - ST LOUIS
2014 - 1st Round - ST LOUIS

They didn't give up this years first round pick, in fact they got a better pick out of it. They gave up the next three items to move up a few spots. This years picks essentially cancel each other out...Washington doesn't lose a first round pick this year, in fact they get a better pick. If I need a quarter but only have 3 dimes, and I trade you my three dimes for that quarter...I didn't lose 30 cents, I lost 5 cents. Or it cost me 5 cents to get a quarter. I'm not sure how people don't get this.

Dude, RGIII is going to cost the Redskins 3 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick. Andrew Luck is costing the Colts 1 1st round pick. That is a fact Jack.

[Portis26]

Not sure what the heck of happening in this thread..
Apples, oranges, 3 picks, 2 picks, 4 picks .. I'm dizzy

RG3 will be a Redskin

[Truck Jackson]

your own statement proves you wrong, and it's your math. Here are the next four picks that Washington makes...I'll spell it out...

2012 - 1st Round (2nd pick)- WASHINGTON
2012 - 2nd Round - ST LOUIS
2013 - 1st Round - ST LOUIS
2014 - 1st Round - ST LOUIS

They didn't give up this years first round pick, in fact they got a better pick out of it. They gave up the next three items to move up a few spots. This years picks essentially cancel each other out...Washington doesn't lose a first round pick this year, in fact they get a better pick. If I need a quarter but only have 3 dimes, and I trade you my three dimes for that quarter...I didn't lose 30 cents, I lost 5 cents. Or it cost me 5 cents to get a quarter. I'm not sure how people don't get this.

2012 - 1st Round (2nd pick)- WASHINGTON

2012 - 1st Round (6th pick)- ST LOUIS //FIXED

2012 - 2nd Round - ST LOUIS
2013 - 1st Round - ST LOUIS
2014 - 1st Round - ST LOUIS

And all this bs about moving up in the 1st round, you give one to get the other. Otherwise, how do we know they didn't give up 3 1st rounders and swap their 2nd for Rams 1st? Cause holy ###### then they gave up 3 good apples, and moved up/ swapped from a decent apple(39pick) to a good apple(2nd pick). And if you didn't give up 3 1st's and a 2nd, I can't belive you idiots gave 3 1st round picks to swap ur 2nd with our 1st rounder.

[jgcrawfish]

Dude, RGIII is going to cost the Redskins 3 1st round picks and a 2nd round pick. Andrew Luck is costing the Colts 1 1st round pick. That is a fact Jack.

That's not the point. The point was what did the Skins pay to the Rams to get their pick. The paid 2 1sts and 1 2nd, and swapped 1sts this year. RGIII was worth a first round pick to EVERYBODY in the draft if he was there at their spot...he was worth 2 firsts and a 2nd to guarantee he would be there at Washington's pick.