Fire Millen

[swamp dog 0]

ok lapdog, here is the data that you are hanging your hat on:

 

From 99 to 03

 

Picks 1-10 - 26 probowlers

Picks 11-20 - 15 probowlers

Picks 21-32 - 10 probowlers

 

Wow, what a shock

 

 

a blue chip player needn't be a probowl player, and, in fact, the concept of who or who isn't a probowl player is subjective (as every year there are arguments, with exceptions of course, of who made it and who didn't make it to the probowl). one needn't look any further than how subjective the voting is when figuring such awards and honors as the 2001 rookie of the year voting where anthony thomas beat out tomlinson.

 

look at the names of the players drafted all the way through the first round in those years you mention (which may or may not be a representative sample) and tell me there isn't just as good a chance of hitting a bust in picks 1-10 as there is any segment of round 1.

 

and those non-bust players? as mentioned, they needn't have been voted to the probowl to be blue-chip stud players for their teams.

[Walter34 3]

a blue chip player needn't be a probowl player, and, in fact, the concept of who or who isn't a probowl player is subjective (as every year there are arguments, with exceptions of course, of who made it and who didn't make it to the probowl). one needn't look any further than how subjective the voting is when figuring such awards and honors as the 2001 rookie of the year voting where anthony thomas beat out tomlinson.

 

look at the names of the players drafted all the way through the first round in those years you mention (which may or may not be a representative sample) and tell me there isn't just as good a chance of hitting a bust in picks 1-10 as there is any segment of round 1.

 

and those non-bust players? as mentioned, they needn't have been voted to the probowl to be blue-chip stud players for their teams.

 

So what you would term as "blue chip" isnt subjective, but a yes or no as far as going to hawaii is?

 

mmmmmkay

 

You're obviously throwing out a red herring by not offering any tangible criteria. I randomly picked 5 years and the facts are clear. Find a 5 year period that doesnt show the same trends.

[swamp dog 0]

So what you would term as "blue chip" isnt subjective, but a yes or no as far as going to hawaii is?

 

mmmmmkay

 

You're obviously throwing out a red herring by not offering any tangible criteria. I randomly picked 5 years and the facts are clear. Find a 5 year period that doesnt show the same trends.

 

your contention was that detroit should have hit on more non-bust players because they've picked more in the top-10. specifically, your claim was that the lions should have had more success gathering nfl players picking in the top-10 than the bears picking, on average about 14-ish (one year 29, a couple of others in the top-10). all of this, of course, brought on by your blind bias to the bears and everything they do.

 

any player who is not bust goes into the other category: good players or blue chip or both or probowlers or...

 

you get the idea

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

So what you would term as "blue chip" isnt subjective, but a yes or no as far as going to hawaii is?

 

mmmmmkay

 

You're obviously throwing out a red herring by not offering any tangible criteria. I randomly picked 5 years and the facts are clear. Find a 5 year period that doesnt show the same trends.

 

You are wasting your time.

[swamp dog 0]

You are wasting your time.

 

sho, welcome back to the thread

[Walter34 3]

a blue chip player needn't be a probowl player, and, in fact, the concept of who or who isn't a probowl player is subjective (as every year there are arguments, with exceptions of course, of who made it and who didn't make it to the probowl). one needn't look any further than how subjective the voting is when figuring such awards and honors as the 2001 rookie of the year voting where anthony thomas beat out tomlinson.

 

look at the names of the players drafted all the way through the first round in those years you mention (which may or may not be a representative sample) and tell me there isn't just as good a chance of hitting a bust in picks 1-10 as there is any segment of round 1.

 

and those non-bust players? as mentioned, they needn't have been voted to the probowl to be blue-chip stud players for their teams.

 

ok lapdog, here is the data that you are hanging your hat on:

 

From 99 to 03

 

Picks 1-10 - 7 busts

Picks 11-20 - 14 busts

Picks 21-32 - 25 busts

 

Wow, what a shock

 

 

The funny thing is, its your Lions that help the most in making the numbers as close as they are

 

Charles Rogers - bust

Joey Harrington - bust

Chris Claiborne - average

Jeff Backus - average

Stockar McDougle - bust

Aaron Gibson - bust

[swamp dog 0]

ok lapdog, here is the data that you are hanging your hat on:

 

From 99 to 03

 

Picks 1-10 - 7 busts

Picks 11-20 - 14 busts

Picks 21-32 - 25 busts

 

Wow, what a shock

 

 

The funny thing is, its your Lions that help the most in making the numbers as close as they are

 

Charles Rogers - bust

Joey Harrington - bust

Chris Claiborne - average

Jeff Backus - average

Stockar McDougle - bust

Aaron Gibson - bust

 

lol...walter, dude, wake up: nowhere was this about me disagreeing with you about the lions picks. nowhere. it was all about you thinking bear shiat don't stink. period. i pointed out--several times, with concrete data--that bear shiat does indeed stink just like lion shiat.

 

really, do you want to play this game--now widen the scope to include first-round picks of the bears in the 90s, too? it's comical: you want to rip on the lions drafting--and the lions wrs (lofl)--and take a tone of some superiority because you think, and have thunk, and will continue to think in the future that da bears iz god's gift to the national football league.

 

let's review:

 

--walt claims the lions o-line is atrocious and kj won't survive behind that line. i provide data from a neutral source that refutes that claim (along with kj's performance behind the same line as a rookie to show that is has indeed been done before)

--walt claims millen and the lions drafts have somehow been on their own plane of ineptitude. i show concrete data that in reality other teams--like the bears--have been just as inept.

--walt claims mike williams is fat and heading for bustdom. i again provide up-to-date data that shows mike is not fat, has indeed lost weight, and is working out hard.

 

come on. you do have a habit of presenting a thin veneer of cordialilty--but a newsflash: you rarely can mask your true feelings for any length of time.

 

the end. move along.

[Sho Nuff 720]

--walt claims millen and the lions drafts have somehow been on their own plane of ineptitude. i show concrete data that in reality other teams--like the bears--have been just as inept.

 

You have not shown any concrete data. You linked to a draft swamp. Drafts that Walter has actually extrapolated data from...and shown you to be incorrect in your statements about the top picks vs. the lower picks.

 

You are in denial.

 

And you are so quick to defend a terrible GM.

 

Did you see many Packer fans ever defending Sherman the GM as much as you do Millen?

[Walter34 3]

No, the lions shiat clearly is more malodorous than 31 other teams. It doesnt mean that other brands of shiat do not stink, just that your team's is the most foul.

 

HTH

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

No, the lions shiat clearly is more malodorous than 31 other teams. It doesnt mean that other brands of shiat do not stink, just that your team's is the most foul.

 

HTH

 

 

Uh huh...

 

According to swamp...other GMs have made mistakes...so that means Millen is just fine.

 

Yet...other GMs are not continually picking busts with early picks....and still losing year after year...

[donhaas 18]

Nothing I hate more than all of you delusional haters out there.

 

The lions are the premiere organization in the National Football league and Millen is a draft guru.

 

Sure, the lions have had only 7 winning seasons in 43 years and one playoff victory. Sure, Millen is 18-62 as a GM. But those are all subjective facts.

 

You can prove almost anything with facts.

You don't see what I see on a day-to-day basis.

 

Move along. I'm through with you all now.

[swamp dog 0]

Uh huh...

 

According to swamp...other GMs have made mistakes...so that means Millen is just fine.

 

Yet...other GMs are not continually picking busts with early picks....and still losing year after year...

 

again, wrong (as usual). it's the same as a leper making fun of someone with ms

[remote controller 143]

Uh huh...

 

According to swamp...other GMs have made mistakes...so that means Millen is just fine.

 

Yet...other GMs are not continually picking busts with early picks....and still losing year after year...

 

 

You Lions haters have got to quit living in the past, though that be both distant and recent, and realize that, once again we must play the games...........................................................................

........................................................................to find out just how bad the Lions will continue to be. Millen will be a genious!! he just needs more time!!!

[Sho Nuff 720]

again, wrong (as usual). it's the same as a leper making fun of someone with ms

 

 

I must be wrong...cause swamp says so....

[swamp dog 0]

 

I must be wrong...cause swamp says so....

 

um, maybe because anyone with borderline IQ and above can read this thread and see you're wrong?

 

i dunno...just throwing that out there

[mozzy84 0]

I thought taking a wide out 3 years in a row was the stupid part, busts or no busts.

[Sho Nuff 720]

um, maybe because anyone with borderline IQ and above can read this thread and see you're wrong?

 

i dunno...just throwing that out there

 

Anyone with a borderline IQ and above in this thread? Everyone has basically disagreed with you? So I guess we are all wrong...you must be right....and we all have tiny IQs?

 

 

You are a joke....time to go tuck someone in for a nap I think...better get to it.

[donhaas 18]

You are a joke....time to go tuck someone in for a nap I think...better get to it.

 

The Lions have tanked already?

 

 

 

I would love to see a Drobeski vs. Welchdog in a "I Won This Thread" contest

[swamp dog 0]

I thought taking a wide out 3 years in a row was the stupid part, busts or no busts.

 

all of them? or just mike williams? not talking about hindsight: talking about the players being there on draft day at that moment in time.

[ShaneFalco 0]

I thought taking a wide out 3 years in a row was the stupid part, busts or no busts.

 

I'm a Lions fan and even I can agree with this.

[Walter34 3]

Lions | Millen trying to get Wilkinson to return
Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:55:43 -0700

Tom Kowalski, of mlive.com, reports Detroit Lions president Matt Millen is still trying to persuade Lions DT Dan Wilkinson to return to the team, but it's beginning to look more and more like Wilkinson is leaning toward retirement.

 

Literally a big hole to fill if he retires.

[swamp dog 0]

Lions | Millen trying to get Wilkinson to return
Thu, 13 Apr 2006 21:55:43 -0700

Tom Kowalski, of mlive.com, reports Detroit Lions president Matt Millen is still trying to persuade Lions DT Dan Wilkinson to return to the team, but it's beginning to look more and more like Wilkinson is leaning toward retirement.

 

Literally a big hole to fill if he retires.

 

i think shaun cody is a perfect fit for marinelli's one-gap defense (and no, i'm not the only one who thinks that--don't kill the messenger ).

 

if the lions really, really view that as a big hole (and i believe they believe cody and others will do just fine), they'll consider taking bunkley in round 1...which, again, wouldn't make a lot of sense because bunkley is a cody clone.

 

bottomline: even if dan retires the lions interior d-line will remain a strong point.

[remote controller 143]

any one else kinda getting a deja vu feeling?

[swamp dog 0]

any one else kinda getting a deja vu feeling?

 

are you saying the packers are going to finish 4-12 again?

[remote controller 143]

are you saying the packers are going to finish 4-12 again?

 

 

That could be,.......................but I was referencing the fact that you continue to want to dig a hole, every season about this time. Then you're forced to go hide in it. It is so unnecessary. On the 4-12.........We're just not as used to it, so forgive us a little for OUR denial. It isn't 2nd nature to us!

[swamp dog 0]

That could be,.......................but I was referencing the fact that you continue to want to dig a hole, every season about this time. Then you're forced to go hide in it. It is so unnecessary. On the 4-12.........We're just not as used to it, so forgive us a little for OUR denial. It isn't 2nd nature to us!

 

er, yeah, your original message was obvious couldn't resist the jab.

[remote controller 143]

er, yeah, your original message was obvious couldn't resist the jab.

 

'Sup Dog!

[Raider 84 29]

I hope the Lions actually keep him because he is a sucky Mr. Know-it-all broadcaster! I'd hate to see him back in the booth as an announcer.

[DrJ 0]

I hope the Lions actually keep him because he is a sucky Mr. Know-it-all broadcaster! I'd hate to see him back in the booth as an announcer.

 

[harken34 0]

Millen is good for the NFL. It makes me at every NFL draft to watch him draft a WR with his 1st pick. No other GM in the league has the balls to do this, or the lack of brains. Which WR will Millen draft with his 1st rounder this year? I can't wait to watch the draft and find out.

 

 

 

[swamp dog 0]

 

 

cool idea! nice way to pad the post count.

[Walter34 3]

Lions | C. Rogers attitude still a question mark

Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:53:07 -0700

 

Drew Sharp, of the Detroit Free Press, believes Detroit Lions WR Charles Rogers has done nothing to suggest he wants to excel as a football player. After being suspended for four games during the 2005 season and poor work habits afterward, Rogers was asked if he had learned anything. He responded by saying he just wants to learn the team's new offensive system and play football. Rogers added, "It's not so much about trust as it is about believing. You've got to believe in me like I believe in you. It's more like that." He has met briefly with head coach Rod Marinelli and said, "We talked a little bit. I don't know about clean slates, man. All I can do is work and let them choose what they want to do."

 

 

Lions | D. Henderson gives S. Rogers an earful, Rogers learns lesson

Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:52:53 -0700

 

Drew Sharp, of the Detroit Free Press, reports Detroit Lions defensive coordinator Donnie Henderson gave DL Shaun Rogers and earful Wednesday, April 12, for being lazy during a pursuit drill among defensive lineman. Rogers was the best performer the next day during that same drill.

[swamp dog 0]

Lions | C. Rogers attitude still a question mark

Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:53:07 -0700

 

Drew Sharp, of the Detroit Free Press, believes Detroit Lions WR Charles Rogers has done nothing to suggest he wants to excel as a football player. After being suspended for four games during the 2005 season and poor work habits afterward, Rogers was asked if he had learned anything. He responded by saying he just wants to learn the team's new offensive system and play football. Rogers added, "It's not so much about trust as it is about believing. You've got to believe in me like I believe in you. It's more like that." He has met briefly with head coach Rod Marinelli and said, "We talked a little bit. I don't know about clean slates, man. All I can do is work and let them choose what they want to do."

 

 

Lions | D. Henderson gives S. Rogers an earful, Rogers learns lesson

Fri, 14 Apr 2006 19:52:53 -0700

 

Drew Sharp, of the Detroit Free Press, reports Detroit Lions defensive coordinator Donnie Henderson gave DL Shaun Rogers and earful Wednesday, April 12, for being lazy during a pursuit drill among defensive lineman. Rogers was the best performer the next day during that same drill.

 

the drew sharp article is a complete waste of space in that it doesn't provide one ounce of new data or information. yeah, no duh: charles has to prove it on the field this year. what cutting-edge journalism! glad he was able to get that "scoop" for us all.

 

the best information in there was about shaun rogers, but even then he was simply taking information published by multiple sources the previous day and sticking it in his column.

[Bishop82 61]

Millen = for NFL fans.

 

 

Millen = for Bears fans.

 

 

[49ER MAN 0]

Didn't Ford last year give Millen a 5 year contract extension despite the fact that he's done nothing there? Millen is not the only problem there I can assure you of that. Ford and the organization as a whole have no clue how to build and sustain a franchise. Too bad you can't fire the owner!

[swamp dog 0]

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_displ...ument_id=444421

 

"If Marinelli’s mini-camp was any indication of the pace he wants his team to play in 2006, fans can be rest assured they’ll find a hustling team on the playing field come September."

 

 

 

Didn't Ford last year give Millen a 5 year contract extension despite the fact that he's done nothing there? Millen is not the only problem there I can assure you of that. Ford and the organization as a whole have no clue how to build and sustain a franchise. Too bad you can't fire the owner!

 

possibly. then again, your 49ers are drafting ahead of the lions this year. again.

[DrJ 0]

possibly. then again, your 49ers are drafting ahead of the lions this year. again.

 

For about the 3rd or 4th time in the past 25 years or so.

 

Maybe some Cardinals fans can make you feel better.

[swamp dog 0]

For about the 3rd or 4th time in the past 25 years or so.

 

Maybe some Cardinals fans can make you feel better.

 

in the past 14 drafts, the bears have picked ahead of the lions 7 times; the lions have picked ahead of the bears 7 times. going back to the 91-92 season lions have made the playoffs 6 times; the bears 6 times.

 

the bears and lions have splite the last 4 meetings: the lions sweeping in 2004; the bears in 2005. in fact the two teams are 4-4 in the last 8.

 

the one difference in that time period? the lions have at least been to the nfc championship game, something the bears have not

 

the shiat you're smelling is coming out of your own bear arse, not the lions

 

as much as it kills you and walt and the pompous thoughts on mythical bear superiority, the reality is the bears as a franchise has sucked monkey balls as bad as any in the last decade and a half. they must prove it on the field and answer a few burning questions before becoming the first bear team since the ditka era to have back-to-back winning seasons.

 

yet, it's a foregone conclusion of them doing that, eh? i love it.

 

cheers

[49ER MAN 0]

http://www.detroitlions.com/document_displ...ument_id=444421

 

"If Marinelli’s mini-camp was any indication of the pace he wants his team to play in 2006, fans can be rest assured they’ll find a hustling team on the playing field come September."

possibly. then again, your 49ers are drafting ahead of the lions this year. again.

 

Well, at least the 49ers as an organization are starting to get their hands out the sand and make the team better. As for the Lions, that's debatable...

[swamp dog 0]

Well, at least the 49ers as an organization are starting to get their hands out the sand and make the team better. As for the Lions, that's debatable...

 

really? says who? you? there is no evidence the 49ers are headed anywhere--much less at a faster rate than any other team in the nfl.

 

and brace yourself for tomorrow morning: there is no easter bunny, either.