Vince Young: The NFL's next Andre Ware

[Sho Nuff 720]

I don't think he will succeed mainly because he will be pushed into starting too soon. He will not be allowed to properly develop and will never be able to take the next step.

 

This is the same franchise that had McNair sit for basically his first 2 years behind Chris Chandler. Don't count on him getting thrown in right away.

[ashwiggins 0]

I for one hope he does well. I would like to see all three of the first round picks have prominent careers. I think the QB play has diminished in the past decade. In the 80's and 90's there seemed to be several Palmer's and Peyton's in the league. They have even changed the rules to help QB's. I guess Defensive scheming and athleticism is evolving at a faster rate.

[CA_7 0]

I run you down because I'm confident that your ability to evaluate talent sucks.

 

 

Two words: Brandon Stokely

 

And if you don't know, you betta ask somebody

[Yippie Skippy 0]

Two words: Brandon Stokely

 

And if you don't know, you betta ask somebody

 

Should I ask the Soloist or CA 7?? Neither seem able to counter my arguments on Vince Young, the subject of the thread. Are you pretending that you were the only one(s) who knew that Peyton Manning's third WR had talent?? I had better sources than you that I relied on to draft Stokely in the past at good value. You want sole credit for evaluating his talent?? The world just revolved around your head again.

 

You are a follower.

[CA_7 0]

Should I ask the Soloist or CA 7?? Neither seem able to counter my arguments on Vince Young, the subject of the thread. Are you pretending that you were the only one(s) who knew that Peyton Manning's third WR had talent?? I had better sources than you that I relied on to draft Stokely in the past at good value. You want sole credit for evaluating his talent?? The world just revolved around your head again.

 

You are a follower.

 

 

I just thought it was interesting that you basically said Soloist had zero credibility about making bold predictions/evaluating talent.

 

I could careless about this Young argument. Barring some injury to Volek, Young won't start until next year at the earliest and based on previous rookie QBs, won't be a factor until the second year at the earliest. That puts us three years out for knowing for sure about Young's worth and by that point know one will ever remember this thread. Too many people on this board are narrow-minded about their predictions and think they are oracles.

[football_scooter 0]

I could careless about this Young argument. Barring some injury to Volek, Young won't start until next year at the earliest and based on previous rookie QBs, won't be a factor until the second year at the earliest.

 

Completely disagree here - Volek had his opportunities, and didn't exactly light the world on fire - in fact, after turning Bennett into a household name for a few games, he pretty well went straight into the toilet.

 

Volek is what he is - a backup QB who played out of his mind for a few games, in part because he lacked a supporting run game and defense so he tossed it up 40 times a game.

 

But he was inconsistent and the more he played the more the holes in his game were exposed.

 

I am of the opinion that VY will be a starter in the 2nd half of the year to get him playing time/experience. And I think he will see modest success. He is a playmaker, and even if he's not completely solid in his mechanics or knowledge of the playbook, he'll be able to wing it and get by on pure athleticism at 1st.

 

I think this approach might be detrimental to his development, but I suspect this is what the Titans have in mind.

 

Just a hunch.

[RoadLizard 73]

I have never seen a guy with so many haters!

 

That's because we are mostly growing tired of the "Can't miss prospects" that *really* are longshots and lottery-odds prospects. The media and some Americans desperately want this guy to be good so they pimp him big-time to get everyone else believing. Mob mentality so to speak.

 

I don't even want to bring up the..... gulp..... "you know" issue because It really doesn't matter. But damnit, I have a feeling that if this guy were from a different background that the hype would be cooled WAY off. Kind of like Mike Vick, his horrendous throws and high-school mentality are accepted and explained away..... but if Peyton Manning played like that or if Brady did, they'd get run out of their respective team's locker rooms and probably get relegated to 2nd string at best. I dunno, I feel that the standards are different for different people which is a product of the media and their BS. Too bad really....

 

Just a hunch, hated to bring "it" up, but just had to because I think many people feel the same way and just dont want to brint "it" up.

 

[football_scooter 0]

That's because we are mostly growing tired of the "Can't miss prospects" that *really* are longshots and lottery-odds prospects. The media and some Americans desperately want this guy to be good so they pimp him big-time to get everyone else believing. Mob mentality so to speak.

 

Wow - thank you Rush Limbaugh...I'd wondered where you went.

 

I guess leading his team to winning the national championship, with a truly dominant performance both rushing and passing while beating what was considered the most dominant team in college football didn't have any impact on people's opinions of him whatsoever, eh?

 

This might be the dumbest post in the history of FFT, and that's saying something. Congrats.

[Erb047 0]

I believe he's better than Michael Vick....Vicks got a horrible arm, but he has still lead Atlanta to the playoffs. I see no reason why Vince Young can't do the same. He's got the physical tools, and he had the desire in college, and should have the desire in the NFL to learn and win.

[t.j 35]

I believe he's better than Michael Vick....Vicks got a horrible arm, but he has still lead Atlanta to the playoffs.

 

I think you mean, he's a horrible passer. Vick's arm (strength) is fine, he can wing it as far as you want, as fast as you want, with a spiral. But he struggles with accuracy, touch, and decision-making.

[Brad GLuckman 518]

Vince Young was a great college QB, no doubt. But his biggest problem will be the mental skills it takes to be a pro QB. Peyton Manning isn't great only because he is a good passer. It takes much more than that. A pro QB needs to be able to read defenses, call audibles, etc.

 

ESPN did a good job of showing that this is his biggest area of concern. He doesn't see matchups that are favorable to his offense, or understand how to break down a defense. Now, he is fresh from college, so everyone is going to have some knocks on them. But the concern is he won't be able to grasp the NFL style of play...I'm not saying he won't be able to, but that is the concern...and that is where Matt Leinart shines. He ran a pro-style offense and did it well in college. He has shown the ability to be a smart QB. He may not have all the arm or legs that Young has, but he will make the right decisions, and that's what matters most.

 

If Young is coached well, and eventually excels in that area of the game he will be great, and better than Leinart, if he doesn't...then he will obvioiusly be a bust.

 

Bottomline--> physical skills alone aren't enough to make a good pro QB.

 

And for the record...just because someone thinks Young will be a bust---it does not make them a racist. Some of you people are ridiculous with that crap.

[Yippie Skippy 0]

Completely disagree here - Volek had his opportunities, and didn't exactly light the world on fire - in fact, after turning Bennett into a household name for a few games, he pretty well went straight into the toilet.

 

Volek is what he is - a backup QB who played out of his mind for a few games, in part because he lacked a supporting run game and defense so he tossed it up 40 times a game.

 

But he was inconsistent and the more he played the more the holes in his game were exposed.

 

I am of the opinion that VY will be a starter in the 2nd half of the year to get him playing time/experience. And I think he will see modest success. He is a playmaker, and even if he's not completely solid in his mechanics or knowledge of the playbook, he'll be able to wing it and get by on pure athleticism at 1st.

 

I think this approach might be detrimental to his development, but I suspect this is what the Titans have in mind.

 

Just a hunch.

 

I agree with you Scooter, Vince is not going to be riding the pine all year.

 

I just wanted to add that the Titans now have a very solid RB unit. That translates into an easier transition for a rookie QB, just ask Big Ben.

 

I wonder how many of the folks who likely won't draft Vince never had Culpepper on their ff team??

[Swagger 0]

Vince Young was a great college QB, no doubt. But his biggest problem will be the mental skills it takes to be a pro QB. Peyton Manning isn't great only because he is a good passer. It takes much more than that. A pro QB needs to be able to read defenses, call audibles, etc.

 

ESPN did a good job of showing that this is his biggest area of concern. He doesn't see matchups that are favorable to his offense, or understand how to break down a defense. Now, he is fresh from college, so everyone is going to have some knocks on them. But the concern is he won't be able to grasp the NFL style of play...I'm not saying he won't be able to, but that is the concern...and that is where Matt Leinart shines. He ran a pro-style offense and did it well in college. He has shown the ability to be a smart QB. He may not have all the arm or legs that Young has, but he will make the right decisions, and that's what matters most.

 

If Young is coached well, and eventually excels in that area of the game he will be great, and better than Leinart, if he doesn't...then he will obvioiusly be a bust.

 

Bottomline--> physical skills alone aren't enough to make a good pro QB.

 

And for the record...just because someone thinks Young will be a bust---it does not make them a racist. Some of you people are ridiculous with that crap.

 

Agreed.

Young was coached pretty well in college, but they limited him in his options. Texas did add the wrinkle with the zone read, but if I am not mistaken that was last year. In 2004 many folks were wondering if he could make it in the NFL beacuse he would throw an interception or two. He has matured and will not doubt get a chance to prove all the haters. The reality is that this thread should be next year, since IMO Volek will get at least 8 more games to prove himself. If the Titans are 2-6 mid way then we will see the "Eli" swap as the Titans take the knocks along side the QB of the future. Young will have the same growing pains that every NFL QB goes through even the can't miss prospects. I hope folks in my league draft him, so they take a up a bench spot. He will be the spark that drives that franchise to make alot more money, when he does get the nod.

[Wildman 0]

Two big misconceptions about Young's game:

 

1. He doesn't go through his progressions. Untrue. Just because Merril Hodge and Jaworski show one play where Young stared down a TE in the redzone doesn't mean Young didn't frequently demonstrate the ability to make his progression to the 2nd or 3rd receiver on the play. In three games I studied, Young occassionally stared down his man, but he also frequently went through his progressions. And as mentioned in a thread I saw recently elswhere, if you look at the number of receptions different receivers had in his games, you'll quickly realize the term "one read offense" isn't that accurate at all. While I saw 1-3 passes per game where Young stared down a player, I saw several plays where he went to at least the 2nd receiver. Watch the Ohio State game and notice him go through his progressions to beat an OSU defense with Whitner, Yobouty, Hawk, Schlegel, and Carpenter. ESPN did not do Young any justice by concluding he didn't read a defense. Does he need work at it? Of course! But they make him out to be some idiot savant that plays in an offense where he either throws to one receiver or tucks it an runs. That's simply not true. He makes reads, goes through progressions, and buys time in the pocket very well. When it is time to run, he just happens to be one of the best in the game at his position in this area.

 

In contrast, there are other quarterbacks that weren't scrutinzed enough. I may have seen 4-5 accurate intermediate/deep throws with sufficent arm strength and form from Leinart in 5 games. The ESPN team just discussed this in a very cursory way, and trust me, they had plenty of game film examples if they wanted to show it.

 

2. He's not smart enough. Of all the QBs I watched, Young was one of the better prospects when it came to learning from his mistakes within the same game. Young routinely made small adjustments in the passing game and maintained his poise in huge situations to make a big play. Please stop comparing Vince Young to Michael Vick. They aren't the same style of player. Vince Young compares better to Steve McNair, a "running QB" that always had enough pocket presence to develop into an upper-tier, pro QB. He's going to make mistakes and probably some really dumb mistakes, but most QBs do. In fact, pair a tv analyst with a bad play from Brady, Peyton Manning, and Hasselbeck and they could make these three look like idiots. Leinart and especially Cutler made some horrendously stupid throws in games. Cutler is viewed as "aggressive," rather than stupid. If you want to play double standard about VY, Cutler, and Leinart you should focus more on the second two getting a free pass for their decision making! Don't think I like Young over Cutler either, because I have Cutler just a bit higher than Young as my top QB...I just don't think people are fair in their assessment with Young.

 

BTW--someone want to tell me why Bernie Kosar and Philip Rivers didn't have their deliveries fixed? They are both over 6-3 and as Jaws said about Young, threw at a platform that was more like 5-11. Kosar was very successful. Rivers is getting his chance over a good quarterback the Chargers jettisoned...

 

Another thing to think about...it doesn't make good television (in producers minds) if experts all agree on a topic. Someone has to have the dissenting viewpoint. Sometimes these views have to be generated in production meetings leading up to the show.

 

Young, like most of the rookie QBs, will need time. With hard work, luck, and good health, he has the skills to be a very good starter.

[Lesman 1]

I don't think he will succeed mainly because he will be pushed into starting too soon. He will not be allowed to properly develop and will never be able to take the next step.

 

He ay fail, but I don;t think it will be because he was rushed into starting. This is the same organization and coaching staff that brought McNair up slowly, and succsesfully. They were praised throughout the league in how they handled the rookie then. I expect them to treat Young in the same manner. Volek (or possibly a veteran like Collins) should start this year at least. and maybe next year Young can work his way in.

[Swagger 0]

He ay fail, but I don;t think it will be because he was rushed into starting. This is the same organization and coaching staff that brought McNair up slowly, and succsesfully. They were praised throughout the league in how they handled the rookie then. I expect them to treat Young in the same manner. Volek (or possibly a veteran like Collins) should start this year at least. and maybe next year Young can work his way in.

 

 

Agreed, I see no reason to believe that Young will start any games this year, Volek has the job and has earned the respect....Since this topic is still fresh. One questions for others:

1. What has happened to the McNair trade rumors?

[Chronic Husker 85]

Vince's throwing motion is EXACTLY like Uncle Rico's.

[Bigbrotherisback 0]

Had to chime in on this one. UT alum here so I am swayed to some degree because I do hope Vince Young is successful in the NFL.

 

Young is a very interesting case, great athleticism, running ability, arm strength, but poor mechanics (which have already been worked on in the off season extensively), and did not play in a system which transfers experience to the NFL level. This guy is a winner though, not because he won a national championship, but because he inspires people around him to play great. He is going to struggle a year or two, show flashed of brilliance, establish himself as a true leader, and will become one a top tier quarterback after about 4 years...or he could flop heh.

 

I am not willing to bet this guy is a success in the NFL, but I doubt you haters would bet he is a flop.

[Chronic Husker 85]

He is going to struggle a year or two, show flashed of brilliance, establish himself as a true leader, and will become one a top tier quarterback after about 4 years...or he could flop heh.

 

Now, that's UT grad logic that is hard to disagree with.

[Rye & Leaf 0]

Vince Young will be an NFL failure.

 

Sure, he looked all pretty during the Rose Bowl, but the few downfield passes he throws barely even stay in the stadium, and if he thinks he's going to attempt more than a dozen quarterback runs in the NFL, he's going to get pulverized.

 

No way does this guy find success.

 

I'd rather have Rodney Peete come out of retirement and play on my team.

 

 

After seeing his heroics in the rose bowl, the sky is the limit for this kid. I don't care how dumb he is when it comes to IQ tests, he has a lot of heart, and a knack for doing the right thing on and off the field...

 

The texans should have drafted this guy, and gave the people what they wanted.

[cowboyz 2]

Vick is not a bust. if Vince young has the success of Vick he will have surpassed most draft picks.

[AirRam 3]

We can agree to disagree... history is rife with black qbs with mad skills without winning teams who have been highly touted.

 

Steve McNair, Alcorn State

[Deadpool 0]

 

After seeing his heroics in the rose bowl, the sky is the limit for this kid. I don't care how dumb he is when it comes to IQ tests, he has a lot of heart, and a knack for doing the right thing on and off the field...

 

The texans should have drafted this guy, and gave the people what they wanted.

 

 

 

I think the thing for me that puts me in the Vince believer camp is the fact that he did it in other games besides the one that everyone wants to talk about. The man had several come from behind victories. *Cough* Michigan Rose Bowl, Ohio State, Oklahoma State *Cough*

[Swagger 0]

He's quickly going to prove that Chris Simms is the best quarterback to ever come out of Texas and play in the NFL.

 

 

Classic, I almost wan't to add this to my sig line so the UT homers I must deal with in my league (3) of the 10 get to see this each day.

[RoadLizard 73]

Wow - thank you Rush Limbaugh...I'd wondered where you went.

 

I guess leading his team to winning the national championship, with a truly dominant performance both rushing and passing while beating what was considered the most dominant team in college football didn't have any impact on people's opinions of him whatsoever, eh?

 

This might be the dumbest post in the history of FFT, and that's saying something. Congrats.

 

Wow - Thank you Jessie Jackson... we wondered where you went!

 

As I said, people aint gonna like it..... but this is the general feeling of more people than you might suspect.

 

Sorry, if you want fairytale scenarios, try a Disney movie. Reality says that the "issue" will always be an issue.

 

I'm not saying I AGREE with the "issue", just stating that it's avery much alive.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.....

[JGB_11 0]

Vince's throwing motion is EXACTLY like Uncle Rico's.

 

 

I would like to nominate the above post for the funniest post ever.

[LOD01 195]

In 3 years, Vince Young will wish he was as good as Andre Ware.

[The Moz 69]

great analysis Rusty -- Young will be like Andre Ware. And Reggie Bush will be like Blair Thomas too

[JP13 0]

Wow - Thank you Jessie Jackson... we wondered where you went!

 

As I said, people aint gonna like it..... but this is the general feeling of more people than you might suspect.

 

Sorry, if you want fairytale scenarios, try a Disney movie. Reality says that the "issue" will always be an issue.

 

I'm not saying I AGREE with the "issue", just stating that it's avery much alive.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.....

 

 

What exacly is your message? You basically are saying that Young and Vick are overhyped b/c they are black (or b/c of thier "backgrounds"). That was the essence of Limbaugh's statements on McNabb. That the media wants to create the impression that that McNabb was good b/c of his race and not his merits on the field.

 

By all accounts McNabb has proven before and after Limbaugh's statement that he was a good NFL Qb. Not without flaws but a good Qb. So why suggest that he is only cosidered good b/c of his race unless you truly believe that black Qb's are inferior or that black football players are less capable than white ones of being successful NFL QB's, and that therefore, the socialist in sports media had to "create" the impression that this guy is good. Doesnt make sense otherwise.

 

Young and Vick are hyped because for many reasons. First and foremost they both put on spectacular performances in National Champioship games and have consistently displayed flashes of talents and playmaking ability that are unique to the QB position. So they are immediatley going to be lightning rods to be both overhyped and unfairly criticized becasue some people want credit for being the first to recognize thier unique talents and others want credit for being the first to say "I told you that they were all hype and that "style" doesnt translate to the NFL. In this day and age of sports media gluttony, everything is overhyped. So yes they maybe somewhat overhyped but who and what isnt?

 

Road Liz, your are right in the fact that while people dont want to admit it, race IS a factor in this whole argument but I think you are completely off on why it is a factor.

 

Race is almost always a factor because humans have eyes that see color and we have brains that try to make sense of what are eyes see. The sad thing is that because most people are unable and unwilling to discuss race honestly, we still have a society that does not take full advantage of its diversity.

 

Now if you want to talk about it in a football sense then we can do that too but the truth is that Nobody really knows how well Vince Young will play in the NFL. He is a Qb with inredible potential but also one who has to show that he can get better and do things that he didnt have to do to succeed in college. And for all the hype and criticism that Vick has recieved he is still a relatively young QB who has enjoyed some very good success on the field but also has some limitations that he needs to improve upon if he wants to truly be a great NFL Qb.

 

Its just funny how people are so quick to form such strong opinions about Qb's when race is involved.

[Ravens 03 0]

This is the same franchise that had McNair sit for basically his first 2 years behind Chris Chandler. Don't count on him getting thrown in right away.

 

But McNair had talent. Lots of talent.

[Mad Brad 0]

There is a disturbance in the force... As I agree with Football Scooter that Roadlizard is either nostradamas or nostradumbass... I'm going to actually side with scooter and choose the latter as well... Scary, hey scooter... MB

 

ps. I say shoot the messenger, for he's the village idiot...

[Guest Johnny Holmes]

Texas ran a scaled back offense for young. They only ran versions of 5 different plays. With Youngs low apptitude he may have trouble picking up Chows offense.

[harken34 0]