MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 It's nice to see that you cannot hold a basic conversation without failing miserably to be funny. Hey, I have an idea. How about staying on topic? Why bother? When someone says something as stupid as "I've got no problem with the gay so long as I don't have to see their gayness or know they're gay and they don't act gay," is it really worth my time to write a serious reply? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davebg 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Some kids live with two same sex adults that they may refer to as "moms" or "dads". That is a simple fact and there is nothing all that controversial about acknowledging that fact. That's all I was really trying to point out but you are intent on trying to extrapolate that statement, so go ahead and do it. I don't really care to have this tedious debate with you. YEAH! Haven't any of you seen "My Two Dads" or that similarly plotted, yet suprisingly fresh copycat show on CBS? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 Sometimes you are so full of sh|t that I realize why you are a mere secretary. Did it ever occur to you that there might be some people out there who are not afraid of gays...who do not hate gays...who think that gays should have the same rights as non-gays (like health benefits, access to public services, etc), but also oppose gay marriage? Personally, I support civil unions for gays, but not marriage. IMO marriage is a religious institution. If a particular religion has rules against homosexuals (like Christianity) then who are we to impose it upon them? Frankly, I find it borderline absurd that the most liberal segmnet of our population (which likely supports legislation to make gay marriage legally binding) is also the group most likely to fight so strongly to enforce the separation of church and state. If it were up to me, the government wouldn't recognize any marriage - gay OR straight. That should be left up to individual churches. But since the government is in the business of recognizing marriage, on what grounds can you offer it (and all of the accompanying benefits) to straights and not to gays? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted May 30, 2006 Yeah, the going does get tough when people are intent on misinterpreting and/or misrepresenting just about everything you say. Some kids live with two same sex adults that they may refer to as "moms" or "dads". That is a simple fact and there is nothing all that controversial about acknowledging that fact. That's all I was really trying to point out but you are intent on trying to extrapolate that statement, so go ahead and do it. I don't really care to have this tedious debate with you. so if there are documented cases of kids with two moms or dads, it ceases to be a controvesial subject? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davebg 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Why bother? When someone says something as stupid as "I've got no problem with the gay so long as I don't have to see their gayness or know they're gay and they don't act gay," is it really worth my time to write a serious reply? I think what Toto meant to say was that there is a way to act w/class and a way to not act w/class. It doesn't really matter if you are gay or straight. The single guy w/the shirt unbottoned to reveal a field of chest hair, gold medallions, bragging about the ho he banged last night is just as cheesey and undesireable as the gay guy w/the heels, make-up and stories of all his boy toys. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 I also don't like to be around people that dress and act like thugs. I also don't like to be around hippies. I also don't like to be around people that are asssholes. So what's the difference in between me not liking to be around someone who acts a certain way and not wanting to be around you because I don't like you for being an liberal dooshbag? I'd like states to decide on their own criteria for civil unions, the government to get out of the business of acknowledging marriage, and for the Constitution to preserve rights, not restrict them. Only a Bush supporter would consider that "liberal." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davebg 0 Posted May 30, 2006 If it were up to me, the government wouldn't recognize any marriage - gay OR straight. That should be left up to individual churches. But since the government is in the business of recognizing marriage, on what grounds can you offer it (and all of the accompanying benefits) to straights and not to gays? I think I pretty clearly explained my position on this subject. ETA: But the groups who are pushing this agenda w/the most force don't want my solution (civil unions = rights; marriage = religion), b/c they want to be able to force their views and opinions on the Church. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 I think I pretty clearly explained my position on this subject. No, you didn't. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted May 30, 2006 I'd like states to decide on their own criteria for civil unions, the government to get out of the business of acknowledging marriage, and for the Constitution to preserve rights, not restrict them. Only a Bush supporter would consider that "liberal." that's fine with me, since each state has shot it down when it's come to a vote. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 My name is Toro. I live with my mother-in-law and call myself a conservative, but I have no idea what that means. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davebg 0 Posted May 30, 2006 No, you didn't. civil unions = rights marriage = religion Get the mail clerk to explain it to you when you are brewing this afternoon's pot of coffee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FranksTanks 0 Posted May 30, 2006 As long as this book doesn't depict the two mommies as hot lesbian mommies, I'm ok with it. That would just be giving the kids false hope. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 civil unions = rightsmarriage = religion Get the mail clerk to explain it to you when you are brewing this afternoon's pot of coffee. You still aren't answering my question: Since the government is already in the business of recognizing "marriage" and all of the legal rights that come with it, on what grounds can you deny that to gays? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,732 Posted May 30, 2006 Who better than me to say this topic is gay? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoytdwow 202 Posted May 30, 2006 civil unions = marriage It's just semantics. Live and let live. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted May 30, 2006 Who better than me to say this topic is gay? well, you could settle one argument in this thread... when did you realize you were ghey? was it a briff or after you first enjoyed getting stuffed? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Once again, I prove my point. Try to stay on track. Why do you live with your mother in law?....are you in between jobs, down on your luck, or just plain pathetic..... Some of the saddest stuff on this board This guying living with his MIL MDC as a secretary.... Are either of you men? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 48 Posted May 30, 2006 The last time we had a thread on this topic, which was very similar but from the US, TorridMuhammad was all over it telling us that the schools were better qualified to tell us what our children need to learn than we were. Now he's nowhere to be found.....I guess he's still researching the "it's not illegal to be a criminal" argument lol, or is it "it's not criminal to break the law"? .......crickets.......... amusing, sad and pathetic, that even when I'm not here you can't stop thinking about me. So I guess you found nothing better to do over a holiday weekend than pine for my posts at FFT? Get help. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Are you new here or something? No...Im just wondering Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,843 Posted May 30, 2006 amusing, sad and pathetic, that even when I'm not here you can't stop thinking about me. So I guess you found nothing better to do over a holiday weekend than pine for my posts at FFT? Get help. LOL he finally shows. Have you determined what is and what isn't a crime yet? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Evidence to the contrary. I don't live with my MIL. I live with my wife, in our house. MDC is a secretary, though You can have your mans world card back.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 Evidence to the contrary. I don't live with my MIL. I live with my wife, in our house, which just so happens to be owned by my MIL. Likely story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davebg 0 Posted May 30, 2006 It's just semantics. Live and let live. Semantics matter. The devil's in the details. If a law was passed ensuring gays of the right to get married, then what happens when two Catholics want to be married by the Church? Does this mean that the Church will have to marry them or risk running afoul of the law? (Not that that's stopped the Church before ) Maybe any possible legislation needs to specifically differentiate between a marriage endorsed by the state and one endorsed by the Church. Then again, that's kind of what I was trying to do by using civil union vs. marriage. Anyone who comes here knows I'm no fan of the Church or organized religion, so for me to be coming to the Church's aid...well...there's gotta' be something to it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 48 Posted May 30, 2006 You don't think that gay marriage is a controversial topic? It's part of the focking national debate right now. It's in the mix w/immigration, gun control and abortion. It is one of those subjects that adults have a hard time rationally debating...let alone coming to a consensus on. While I may agree that the positions that some people take on such topics are borne out of intolerance, that does not mean that I believe that this is an appropriate topic for 5, 6, 7 and 8 year olds to be taught in publicly funded schools. And it certainly means that I don't condone any groups w/their own agendas from using the children of this country as a pawn in their efforts to promote their cause. I'm pretty sure none of these are hot topics with 6 year olds. Geez, how do some of you people even exist in this world? Are you out there denying to children that people are married, on the .00000001% chance that the topic of sex might even occur to them? I assure you, "gay marriage" is not a controversial topic with preschoolers. I'm not at all sure what's controversial about pointing out that some kids have two moms or two dads. When did it become a biology lesson? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 MDC seriously, dude. stay on topic. If you don't want to discuss this anymore, just say so. I do want to discuss it. Just not with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 48 Posted May 30, 2006 Semantics matter. The devil's in the details. If a law was passed ensuring gays of the right to get married, then what happens when two Catholics want to be married by the Church? Does this mean that the Church will have to marry them or risk running afoul of the law? (Not that that's stopped the Church before ) Maybe any possible legislation needs to specifically differentiate between a marriage endorsed by the state and one endorsed by the Church. Then again, that's kind of what I was trying to do by using civil union vs. marriage. Anyone who comes here knows I'm no fan of the Church or organized religion, so for me to be coming to the Church's aid...well...there's gotta' be something to it. are you kidding me? When has this government ever told a church who it could marry and not marry? Does the fact that the government will grant a license to a Buddhist and a Hindu, mean that they'll be forcing the Catholic church to give them a wedding service? How does civil marriage law have ANYTHING to do with religious observance of the rite? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted May 30, 2006 I'm pretty sure none of these are hot topics with 6 year olds.Geez, how do some of you people even exist in this world? Are you out there denying to children that people are married, on the .00000001% chance that the topic of sex might even occur to them? I assure you, "gay marriage" is not a controversial topic with preschoolers. I'm not at all sure what's controversial about pointing out that some kids have two moms or two dads. When did it become a biology lesson? of course there's not controversy about "gay marriage" in oregon...you guys voted, end of story. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
edjr 6,732 Posted May 30, 2006 well, you could settle one argument in this thread... when did you realize you were ghey? was it a briff or after you first enjoyed getting stuffed? When I knocked up your mother with you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 48 Posted May 30, 2006 Why are we teaching our children any of this? Aren't they having enough of a hard time with reading and math? Let's figure out how to get them to speak english correctly and add 2 numbers together, then if there is time left over, we will make sure they grow up to be liberals. reading and math? In daycare? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
surferskin 30 Posted May 30, 2006 When I knocked up your mother with you. that means...that...that... ...i have a ghey dad. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hoytdwow 202 Posted May 30, 2006 Semantics matter. The devil's in the details. If a law was passed ensuring gays of the right to get married, then what happens when two Catholics want to be married by the Church? Does this mean that the Church will have to marry them or risk running afoul of the law? (Not that that's stopped the Church before ) Maybe any possible legislation needs to specifically differentiate between a marriage endorsed by the state and one endorsed by the Church. Then again, that's kind of what I was trying to do by using civil union vs. marriage. Anyone who comes here knows I'm no fan of the Church or organized religion, so for me to be coming to the Church's aid...well...there's gotta' be something to it. I don't care what churches do. They are irrelevant to this matter, as they usually are. Marriage is a legal status. It doesn't matter if you had a Catholic wedding, or a drive thru wedding done by an Elvis impersonator in Las Vegas. I think in most states Civil Unions will provide gay couples the same legal rights as married couples, which is all they are asking for. So, who cares if it's called marriage or not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Force of Two 0 Posted May 30, 2006 Yes, torrid. You can start to teach your children to read, write and even do math before kindergarten. You might even want to teach them a few shapes, colors, animals, and maybe some adjectives like hot and cold. but dont teach them too many colors....they may join a rainbow coalition Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davebg 0 Posted May 30, 2006 I'm pretty sure none of these are hot topics with 6 year olds.Geez, how do some of you people even exist in this world? Are you out there denying to children that people are married, on the .00000001% chance that the topic of sex might even occur to them? I assure you, "gay marriage" is not a controversial topic with preschoolers. I'm not at all sure what's controversial about pointing out that some kids have two moms or two dads. When did it become a biology lesson? I never said that it was a controversial topic to preschoolers. I said that it is a controversial topic amongst adults...as in part of the national debate (and just so I cover my bases, I wasn't trying to say that immigration, gun control or abortion were controversial topics for preschoolers either.) I think that the most controversial topic that preschoolers should be wrestling with is who does and does not have cooties on the playground...not topics that adults can barely have a rational discussion on, let alone come to agreement on. If you so desparately want your child to learn about these subjects and feel as though they are ready to learn about them, then that's your right as a parent. Just as you would be within your rights as a parent of a young child to determine that they are not ready to be exposed to such things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmh6476 1,057 Posted May 30, 2006 i wish my MIL bought me my house Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strike 5,843 Posted May 30, 2006 Yes, torrid. You can start to teach your children to read, write and even do math before kindergarten. You might even want to teach them a few shapes, colors, animals, and maybe some adjectives like hot and cold. ETA: 7 year olds are learning multiplication and division. Toro, You need to understand something. It's more important for Muhammad's children to learn liberal values before learning the three RRR's, or how to make a logical argument. Therefore, his stance on this issue is very understandable. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MDC 7,652 Posted May 30, 2006 Still waiting for davebg to answer my question: Since the government is recognizing marriage as a legal term that comes with certain rights, on what grounds can you deny those rights to same-sex couples? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 48 Posted May 30, 2006 Yes, torrid. You can start to teach your children to read, write and even do math before kindergarten. You might even want to teach them a few shapes, colors, animals, and maybe some adjectives like hot and cold. ETA: 7 year olds are learning multiplication and division. I never said you couldn't. I simply suggested that we don't, which we don't. I don't think it's a very good idea, anyway. The business of small children is play. That's how they learn at that age. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torridjoe 48 Posted May 30, 2006 I never said that it was a controversial topic to preschoolers. I said that it is a controversial topic amongst adults...as in part of the national debate (and just so I cover my bases, I wasn't trying to say that immigration, gun control or abortion were controversial topics for preschoolers either.) I think that the most controversial topic that preschoolers should be wrestling with is who does and does not have cooties on the playground...not topics that adults can barely have a rational discussion on, let alone come to agreement on. If you so desparately want your child to learn about these subjects and feel as though they are ready to learn about them, then that's your right as a parent. Just as you would be within your rights as a parent of a young child to determine that they are not ready to be exposed to such things. As long as you agree that it's not a controversial subject to preschoolers, what's your problem with it? What does it matter whether some adults are rational enough to discuss it, as long as the kids are? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
davebg 0 Posted May 30, 2006 are you kidding me? When has this government ever told a church who it could marry and not marry? Does the fact that the government will grant a license to a Buddhist and a Hindu, mean that they'll be forcing the Catholic church to give them a wedding service? How does civil marriage law have ANYTHING to do with religious observance of the rite? So you don't believe that if there is a law passed that gives homosexuals the right to obtain a marriage that it will result in some couple wanting to be married in a church, by the Church? You don't think that some couple will try to force the issue to advance their own cause (not to mention get a little payback at the Church?) I mean, it's not like people have been known to put children in the middle of the national debate in order to push their own agenda or anything like that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmh6476 1,057 Posted May 30, 2006 toro, you should explain to your rich MIL that you have an old college buddy that is a chiefs fan, and you want to fly him down and need to "borrow" $250 to get it done, then ship me down, rusty can scrounge up some free tickets for the 3 of us and then I pickup the tab on the beers all night long Share this post Link to post Share on other sites