At Day-Care: a nice story of homo families at play

[phillybear 365]

You have no idea what you're talking about.

 

We have seen hundreds of gay is genetic/environmental threads on this site. And they never finish with a definitive conclusion.

 

I try to keep an open mind on most issues, without any partisan politics clouding my decision making process. And all that I have read has left me with a conclusion of scientists trying to prove gay = genetic have evidence that is laughable, pitiful, and embarrasingly lacking. Yet, it is widely reported as fact? Bizarre, but political correctness dictates this mind set, not fact. And political correctness is driving this country into the ground.

 

It is arguable. And it is still not relevant to the thread.

[Strike 4,042]

The last time we had a thread on this topic, which was very similar but from the US, TorridMuhammad was all over it telling us that the schools were better qualified to tell us what our children need to learn than we were. Now he's nowhere to be found.....I guess he's still researching the "it's not illegal to be a criminal" argument lol, or is it "it's not criminal to break the law"? .......crickets..........

[MDC 5,932]

We have seen hundreds of gay is genetic/environmental threads on this site. And they never finish with a definitive conclusion.

 

I try to keep an open mind on most issues, without any partisan politics clouding my decision making process. And all that I have read has left me with a conclusion of scientists trying to prove gay = genetic have evidence that is laughable, pitiful, and embarrasingly lacking. Yet, it is widely reported as fact? Bizarre, but political correctness dictates this mind set, not fact. And political correctness is driving this country into the ground.

 

It is arguable. And it is still not relevant to the thread.

 

There probably won't ever be a definitive conclusion, but the evidence strongly suggests that most gay people - particularly gay men - were born with their sexual preference or at least developed it at a very early age. Like I said, researchers have been identifying physiological differences between the gays and the straights for years and homersexuality is well-documented in the rest of the animal world, particularly among apes (who show almost identical rates of homersexuality). I don't know how you can look at these facts and not come to the conclusion that sexual preference is at least in part, something you're born with. Unless you just don't like the gays and you're determined to stigmatize them, which seems to be the very un-Christian impule behind fartfish's thread.

[Ilov80s 0]

I assume that it is much easier to get statistics regarding graduation rates, standardized test scores and the like than it is a tally of books that force children to address contoversial subjects that the adult population of this country doesn't seem mature enough to deal with.

 

The funny part about that is that children don't find it controversial and actually handle it with much more maturity then most adults. Children only begin reacting negatively and immature after seeing how adults react. If you explain to most 5 year old kids that somebody has 2 dads, they will say "so do you like pokemon?" They aren't really that concerned with adult sexual relationships. I think we often underestimate children.

[Strike 4,042]

The funny part about that is that children don't find it controversial and actually handle it with much more maturity then most adults. Children only begin reacting negatively and immature after seeing how adults react. If you explain to most 5 year old kids that somebody has 2 dads, they will say "so do you like pokemon?" They aren't really that concerned with adult sexual relationships. I think we often underestimate children.

 

I don't think you'd get a lot of argument on this. It doesn't change the fact that schools shouldn't be teaching controversial topics to our children without our consent.

[Ilov80s 0]

I don't think you'd get a lot of argument on this. It doesn't change the fact that schools shouldn't be teaching controversial topics to our children without our consent.

 

I don't know what exactly they are teaching? It sounds like a story about a child with 2 moms. They aren't teaching how to be gay or what gay people do in bed. It is a story abou a child with 2 moms. There are plenty of children with 2 moms. Its not some far-fetched plot. I just don't see it any different as having children read a story about a child with a black mom and a white dad or about an Arabic family. These people and situations do exist. I feel that it confuses kids more when things like this are hid from them and then all of a sudden they are 13 and come face to face with it. It blows up the schemas they had built. When it is hidden and they they meet that Arabic kid or that kid with 2 moms, they react negatively because it does against all their prior knowledge. Instead of thinking, oh yeah I remember reading about that kid with 2 moms- he seemed alright- this is no big deal. I remember hearing about that Arabic family, they seemed nice. Maybe this kid is nice. Its very similar to the way racism and sexism have been fought against.

[parrot 789]

I don't think you'd get a lot of argument on this. It doesn't change the fact that schools shouldn't be teaching controversial topics to our children without our consent.

"controversial" is a pretty subjective term.

 

What is it that they're teaching them that's so "controversial", that there are children with same sex parents? These kids exist, isn't this just a simple truth?

 

Should they be allowed to show mixed race parents? What about single and/or divorced parents? Some people find those notions fairly "controversial" too. How far should we go in allowing personal prejudices to dictate school curriculum?

[Mike MacGregor 20]

If a day care facility is reading books about any old topic that happens to have a same-sex marriage/relationship between the characters, I'm okay with that. If a day care facility is reading books with the explicit purpose of showcasing same-sex marriage/relationship then I'd rather handle that topic in house, as mentioned.

 

Its the world we live in so if it is part of the existing story I don't feel a need to hide that fact from my kids. In fact, my 3 year old daughter went to a birthday party a few weeks ago where her friend had 2 mommies. We didn't know that going into the party, but it didn't phase me to find out later.

[Franknbeans 46]

I'd rather take care of this one in closet

 

[MDC 5,932]

If a day care facility is reading books about any old topic that happens to have a same-sex marriage/relationship between the characters, I'm okay with that. If a day care facility is reading books with the explicit purpose of showcasing same-sex marriage/relationship then I'd rather handle that topic in house, as mentioned.

 

Its the world we live in so if it is part of the existing story I don't feel a need to hide that fact from my kids. In fact, my 3 year old daughter went to a birthday party a few weeks ago where her friend had 2 mommies. We didn't know that going into the party, but it didn't phase me to find out later.

 

Weren't you afraid she'd come back from the party hungry for muff?

[parrot 789]

If a day care facility is reading books about any old topic that happens to have a same-sex marriage/relationship between the characters, I'm okay with that. If a day care facility is reading books with the explicit purpose of showcasing same-sex marriage/relationship then I'd rather handle that topic in house, as mentioned.

 

In the context this is presented it seems pretty harmless to me.

[Ilov80s 0]

"controversial" is a pretty subjective term.

 

What is it that they're teaching them that's so "controversial", that there are children with same sex parents? These kids exist, isn't this just a simple truth?

 

Should they be allowed to show mixed race parents? What about single and/or divorced parents? Some people find those notions fairly "controversial" too. How far should we go in allowing personal prejudices to dictate school curriculum?

 

We should paint the world as a fairy tale where every child will have his own Disney World dreams come true. Then he won't have to deal with the petty inconveniences of reality.

 

Although, he may wind up confused, disappointed, and bitter when he discovers the entire world doesn't conform to the narrow scope of his expectations.

[Mike MacGregor 20]

Weren't you afraid she'd come back from the party hungry for muff?

 

This act was not on display at the party.

[surferskin 30]

 

In the context this is presented it seems pretty harmless to me.

 

a story about two mommies going to a gay pride parade? you don't think that's promotion of pro-gay agenda?

[TimmySmith 2,782]

I don't know what exactly they are teaching? It sounds like a story about a child with 2 moms. They aren't teaching how to be gay or what gay people do in bed. It is a story abou a child with 2 moms. There are plenty of children with 2 moms. Its not some far-fetched plot.

 

 

Two mums and a gay pride day. If you can't see agenda in that, then you pretty much believe everything you hear.

 

Whether you agree or disagree with that agenda is a diferent story.

[parrot 789]

a story about two mommies going to a gay pride parrade? you don't think that's promotion of pro-gay agenda?

Fair enough, I think they could do away with the Gay Pride tangent too. Definitely less controversial that way.

[MDC 5,932]

a story about two mommies going to a gay pride parade? you don't think that's promotion of pro-gay agenda?

 

I think it promotes tolerance of gays. If you're on the side of intolerance I can see why that'd piss you off.

[surferskin 30]

I think it promotes tolerance of gays. If you're on the side of intolerance I can see why that'd piss you off.

 

do i send my kids to school to learn tolerance of phags?

[Ilov80s 0]

Also, I find it funny that every racial group/ethnicity/whatever that screams that they should be tolerated always hold events and parades that include only those people? I mean, you don't see a bunch of straight people walking down the street screaming "We're Here and we are normal."

 

They probably have to hold those parades because when people try and teach that they are here and normal, intolerant people like FastFish start screaming and crying about it.

[MDC 5,932]

Why is it wrong to want to teach your children that homersexuality is not right?

 

I'm not sure I'd say it's wrong to teach your children that homersexuality is "not right," but it is wrong to teach them to be intolerant of a fairly common lifestyle, just like I'd think it's wrong to teach your kids intolerance toward blacks, Jews, etc.

[Strike 4,042]

"controversial" is a pretty subjective term.

 

What is it that they're teaching them that's so "controversial", that there are children with same sex parents? These kids exist, isn't this just a simple truth?

 

Should they be allowed to show mixed race parents? What about single and/or divorced parents? Some people find those notions fairly "controversial" too. How far should we go in allowing personal prejudices to dictate school curriculum?

 

If it were simply two kids coming home after school and there happens to be two mommies there instead of a mommy and a daddy you might have a valid point, although I still think that's a topic that should not be taught at school to young children, but that's my opinion. In any case, at the risk of Mike's wrath for posting part of a copyrighted news story, here's an excerpt from the article:

 

"The four picture-story books comprising the "Learn to Include" series feature same-sex parent families. One, called Going to Fair Day, has a little girl attending a Mardi Gras "gay pride" event with her "two mums," and meeting a friend there who has "two dads."

 

To me, when the story becomes gay parents taking their kids to a gay pride parade to meet other gay parents it's going past the line of what should be taught to young children. Do you still think this is proper subject matter for young children?

[MDC 5,932]

do i send my kids to school to learn tolerance of phags?

 

No, you are welcome to raise your kids to be bigots. Hopefully it won't stick and you'll end up as the bigotted old fart who nobody takes seriously. Every family has one.

[phillybear 365]

As this thread goes careening into another direction, I just want to point out the obvious: tolerance does not equal acceptance.

 

Carry on.

[parrot 789]

I'm not sure I'd say it's wrong to teach your children that homersexuality is "not right," but it is wrong to teach them to be intolerant of a fairly common lifestyle,

And let's all keep in mind that whether you agree with the lifestyle or not, the child of gay parents has to bear the brunt on the playground and really has no say in or control over, the situation.

[davebg 0]

"controversial" is a pretty subjective term.

 

What is it that they're teaching them that's so "controversial", that there are children with same sex parents? These kids exist, isn't this just a simple truth?

 

Should they be allowed to show mixed race parents? What about single and/or divorced parents? Some people find those notions fairly "controversial" too. How far should we go in allowing personal prejudices to dictate school curriculum?

You don't think that gay marriage is a controversial topic? It's part of the focking national debate right now.

 

It's in the mix w/immigration, gun control and abortion. It is one of those subjects that adults have a hard time rationally debating...let alone coming to a consensus on.

 

While I may agree that the positions that some people take on such topics are borne out of intolerance, that does not mean that I believe that this is an appropriate topic for 5, 6, 7 and 8 year olds to be taught in publicly funded schools. And it certainly means that I don't condone any groups w/their own agendas from using the children of this country as a pawn in their efforts to promote their cause.

[parrot 789]

To me, when the story becomes gay parents taking their kids to a gay pride parade to meet other gay parents it's going past the line of what should be taught to young children. Do you still think this is proper subject matter for young children?

I already said I think that's pushing the boundaries.

[MDC 5,932]

You don't think that gay marriage is a controversial topic? It's part of the focking national debate right now.

 

It's only part of the national debate because gay-bashing is a GOP campaigning issue. The irony is that most of the people who fall for this call themselves Christians.

[surferskin 30]

It's only part of the national debate because gay-bashing is a GOP campaigning issue. The irony is that most of the people who fall for this call themselves Christians.

 

what are you even talking about? gay bashing?

[parrot 789]

You don't think that gay marriage is a controversial topic? It's part of the focking national debate right now.

When did I say anything about gay marriage?

 

I said that children living with same sex "parents" (whether you care for that term or not) exist and there is nothing all that controversial about acknowledging that fact.

 

I guess the twisting or viewpoints has officially begun. I'm outta here.

[Strike 4,042]

I already said I think that's pushing the boundaries.

 

Yeah, I posted my response before seeing this had been addressed. But it begs the question of whether you actually read the article before responding to me and someone else that you thought it was ok what they were teaching. Only when the issue of gay parents going to a gay pride parade was specifically brought up did you acknowledge that this was a bit overboard. So, did you read the article or were you just going with the normal talking points ala torridjoe?

[surferskin 30]

When did I say anything about gay marriage?

 

I said that children living with same sex "parents" (whether you care for that term or not) exist and there is nothing all that controversial about acknowledging that fact.

 

I guess the twisting or viewpoints has officially begun. I'm outta here.

 

are you really suggesting that "gay marriage" is controverial but everyone's cool with gay couples adopting kids?

[porkbutt 865]

I'm not sure I'd say it's wrong to teach your children that homersexuality is "not right," but it is wrong to teach them to be intolerant of a fairly common lifestyle, just like I'd think it's wrong to teach your kids intolerance toward blacks, Jews, etc.

 

that's stupid. one is a behavior and the other is ethnic background. two different things. it's not wrong to teach your children that a behavior may be wrong. where you may draw the line at molestation being wrong, i can draw the line at two men having sex. i think the behavior is wrong. you're intolerant of my views.

[Strike 4,042]

When did I say anything about gay marriage?

 

I said that children living with same sex "parents" (whether you care for that term or not) exist and there is nothing all that controversial about acknowledging that fact.

 

I guess the twisting or viewpoints has officially begun. I'm outta here.

 

LOL you bail when the going gets tough. The logical conclusion of two people living together is that they are married, or are you suggesting that we should be teaching our 7 year olds about living together with a same sex partner? And you know that almost any two same sex partners that would have kids would love to be married and, if they aren't, it's probably only because they're not legally entitled to.

[MDC 5,932]

Personally, I really don't care if you are gay or not. It's just how you act. There are some neighbors of ours that are lesbians. Very open about it but you don't drive past their house and see rainbow flags in the front.

 

The problem I have is the guy that walks around in high heels, wearing makeup, screaming "No you di'int", and talking about the boys he met last weekend at the gay bar. Or the girl that walks in wearing men's clothes, acts like a dude. You don't want to get treated differently, then carry yourself in a way that is within the social norms for the way to act in public.

 

Yeah well maybe they don't like a grown man who lives in his mother-in-law's basement apartment.

[parrot 789]

Yeah, I posted my response before seeing this had been addressed. But it begs the question of whether you actually read the article before responding to me and someone else that you thought it was ok what they were teaching. Only when the issue of gay parents going to a gay pride parade was specifically brought up did you acknowledge that this was a bit overboard. So, did you read the article or were you just going with the normal talking points ala torridjoe?

I read the article but this point failed to fully register. When it was pointed out, I conceding that it had some validity.

 

You fockers crack me up, even when someone agrees with you, you're intent on arguing with them. Maybe you should go find Torrid's blog since you are clearly pining for him Strike.

[davebg 0]

It's only part of the national debate because gay-bashing is a GOP campaigning issue. The irony is that most of the people who fall for this call themselves Christians.

Sometimes you are so full of sh|t that I realize why you are a mere secretary.

 

Did it ever occur to you that there might be some people out there who are not afraid of gays...who do not hate gays...who think that gays should have the same rights as non-gays (like health benefits, access to public services, etc), but also oppose gay marriage?

 

Personally, I support civil unions for gays, but not marriage. IMO marriage is a religious institution. If a particular religion has rules against homosexuals (like Christianity) then who are we to impose it upon them?

 

Frankly, I find it borderline absurd that the most liberal segmnet of our population (which likely supports legislation to make gay marriage legally binding) is also the group most likely to fight so strongly to enforce the separation of church and state.

[Bigtraine 24]

where you may draw the line at molestation being wrong, i can draw the line at two men having sex.

 

No Consent vs. Consent

[Toro 1]

Yeah well maybe they don't like a grown man who lives in his mother-in-law's basement apartment.

 

It's nice to see that you cannot hold a basic conversation without failing miserably to be funny. Hey, I have an idea. How about staying on topic?

[Strike 4,042]

I read the article but this point failed to fully register. When it was pointed out, I conceding that it had some validity.

 

You fockers crack me up, even when someone agrees with you, you're intent on arguing with them. Maybe you should go find Torrid's blog since you are clearly pining for him Strike.

 

Hey man, I just wanted clarification. Some people see a topic, assume it's the same as all previous discussions on similar topics, and post. I wanted to know if you were one of those or if you actually read the article. I didn't jump on you or anything, just asked a follow up question.

[parrot 789]

LOL you bail when the going gets tough. The logical conclusion of two people living together is that they are married, or are you suggesting that we should be teaching our 7 year olds about living together with a same sex partner? And you know that almost any two same sex partners that would have kids would love to be married and, if they aren't, it's probably only because they're not legally entitled to.

Yeah, the going does get tough when people are intent on misinterpreting and/or misrepresenting just about everything you say.

 

Some kids live with two same sex adults that they may refer to as "moms" or "dads". That is a simple fact and there is nothing all that controversial about acknowledging that fact. That's all I was really trying to point out but you are intent on trying to extrapolate that statement, so go ahead and do it. I don't really care to have this tedious debate with you.