IN DEPTH w/ WR Roy Williams Detroit Lions

[gpann101 32]

WR Roy Williams of the Detroit Lions is one of those players who has the heart and determination to become a household name in the NFL for many years to come. He is in a new offence that will give every opportunity to achieve total STARDOM! Roy Williams being in his third year now has the label now of "Breakthrough Player" in which past history tells us FFers that he may be a key factor in our Fantasy teams. I wish it to be true and hope that he will do very well but I have some thoughts on "HOW" well will he do this coming season.It is well known that under Mike Martz,all offensive players can do well. We have to consider that "Roy" does not have a solid #2WR to keep him from getting double teamed.Certain articles state that that doesn't matter,he is great at getting separation and can make hard plays look easy. Another point...Kevin Jones needs to step up if the Lions are ever going to go anywhere. He has yet to prove his worth. Jones to is a "sleeper " in that respect as well. I do have faith in Kitna,he made a star out of Chad Johnson and will do the same for Roy. The Lions have all the right pieces to the puzzle , but the one piece that conserns me the most of Roy Williams is his health. Yes this is his third year and he has proved that he has not been able to play a whole 16 game season. I ask that if anyone knows his injury records that we can look and see if this is a ongoing pattern or dumb luck for him. From head to toe...LETS GO!

[swamp dog 0]

i think there's already several threads going on this topic. try search.

[SmartassBoiler 0]

 

I really like Roy Williams this year. I'd prefer to have him as my WR2 so that he's not the guy I depend on every week, but I see big things for him this season. They got a guy in there in Kitna who is a solid QB, and Martz should add explosiveness to the offense and invent all sorts of ways to get Roy open down the field. I assume Roy will play Holt's role in the offense, and that's a great role to play.

 

He'll probably be a bit inconsistent given the team is moving to a new offense, but he finds ways to score TDs no matter who is throwing him the ball. If he can avoid the nagging injuries that have plagued him the past two seasons, and perhaps the new coaching staff will give him more motivation to play through that sort of thing, he'll have a big year.

[swamp dog 0]

there's no reason he can't put up top-10 numbers if he stays healthy. and if he stays healthy, he could--or should--flirt with top-5 numbers.

 

he's just a freak of nature.

[jeffkomlo 19]

there's no reason he can't put up top-10 numbers if he stays healthy. and if he stays healthy, he could--or should--flirt with top-5 numbers.

 

he's just a freak of nature.

 

 

Ole Swampy know ya had to change your drawers after reading this.

[tampa_fan_01 0]

there's no reason he can't put up top-10 numbers if he stays healthy. and if he stays healthy, he could--or should--flirt with top-5 numbers.

 

he's just a freak of nature.

I very much agree...

[lguero1 4]

that boy is good.

[shadow2k 0]

By the time your draft rolls around, I expect Roy to be going for X-rays.

[remote controller 136]

The ability of Kitna to effectively deliver him the ball concerns me.

 

 

 

-- Kitna Struggles Deep --

Sat Aug 5, 2006 --from FFMastermind.com

 

Mlive reports Detroit Lions QB Jon Kitna couldn't hit anything he attempted deep Saturday night during the team's Black & Blue scrimmage. That was disappointing since he did a good job of connecting on a lot of downfield passes during the first week of training camp.

[feartheturtle 0]

I see ROY as a top 15 WR. Good pickup as your #2, maybe in the 4th round.

[pollardposse 0]

I see ROY as a top 15 WR. Good pickup as your #2, maybe in the 4th round.

 

 

I see him as a top ten WR. He was not injury prone in college, but did miss some time as a senior with a sprained ankle.

 

Keep this in mind.... When Isaac Bruce had Tony Banks throwing him the ball, he missed nearly two full years due to "injuries" to his hammy. I would miss time to if the ###### throwing me the ball was hanging me out to dry on every play.

A new coach, new year.... He will be a stud.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 38]

What worries me about Roy is the O-line and Martz uncanny propensity to put his QB's in the hospital. And that was with a with good line in St L. With the crap line in Detroit I just wonder who will be the QB by mid season. Kitna and McClown could both be done.

[swamp dog 0]

What worries me about Roy is the O-line and Martz uncanny propensity to put his QB's in the hospital. And that was with a with good line in St L. With the crap line in Detroit I just wonder who will be the QB by mid season. Kitna and McClown could both be done.

 

then the next guy after that is orlovsky--whom martz views as the true long-term answer at qb but is a little green yet. kill the messenger all you want. just saying...

 

Ole Swampy know ya had to change your drawers after reading this.

 

try to raise your own bar by adding just one post in ANY thread that moves the conversation forward some how. you think roy is going to be a stiff this year? on ir? stay on task, focus on the thread topic, and spit out something relevant.

 

it doesn't appear you're capable, though.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 38]

then the next guy after that is orlovsky--whom martz views as the true long-term answer at qb but is a little green yet. kill the messenger all you want. just saying...

 

Then why go out and get BOTH Kitna AND McClown? And, I thought I had schooled you enough about posting your opinions as facts. Please provide a link to a quote from Martz or better yet Marinelli stating this "fact."

[swamp dog 0]

Then why go out and get BOTH Kitna AND McClown? And, I thought I had schooled you enough about posting your opinions as facts. Please provide a link to a quote from Martz or better yet Marinelli stating this "fact."

 

you mean "schooling" in the past tense where you chided me for not having a link and then i provided links and you red herringed the debate to a completely new direction? that schooling?

 

for starters. but i fully predict you'll do a massive spin control and dismiss this completely.

 

"Offensive coordinator Mike Martz's early impressions of Orlovsky are glowing. Martz has said that Orlovsky has good football knowledge, a strong arm and a tremendous upside."--kffl http://www.kffl.com/player/11296/nfl

 

another story:

 

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/artic.../608040310/1126

 

not sure what your flying off the handle here's all about, but i correctly predicted you'd fly off the handle and kill the messenger. you asked who the qb would be after kitna and mccown; i told you (even though the qb after kitna may end up being orlovsky and not mccown, but i digress). and why get both mccown and kitna? because orlovsky was a rookie last year and isn't ready yet. did you miss the part in my first post? that said, since those signings orlovsky has been pushing for the #2 spot (but i don't think he'll start the season at that spot).

 

this is information, nothing more. choose to believe it, not believe it, ignore it, dismiss it--it's a free focking country, dude! just take a bottle of happy pills and dig the bug out of your azz.

[Leonard Henry -2 Yds 0]

In a 12 team, 25 round IDP draft, Roy Williams is my #3 WR.

[swamp dog 0]

In a 12 team, 25 round IDP draft, Roy Williams is my #3 WR.

 

nice if you can get him at that price.

[swamp dog 0]

bumping for big dog.

[Walter34 3]

Everyone like his potential, but there is several question marks to consider:

 

1. Injury history - hasnt shown that he can stay healthy or work through nagging ailments

2. Questionable qb play - Kitna was solid for 1 season 3 years ago. Not a guarentee that he can recapture that high level

3. New offense often needs time to gel

4. Oline is sub par and may limit the pocket time for the qb to get the ball deep

5. Work ethic - seemed to drop easy ones or run wrong routes often last year. Time will tell whether he is re-dedicated. The heart and determination in the opening post has not been that apparent thus far.

 

All that said, he has a ton of talent and is worth a shot this year. he could explode if things fall into place. Top 5 is very wishful thinking however. I would expect 70-1100-9 from him.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Everyone like his potential, but there is several question marks to consider:

 

1. Injury history - hasnt shown that he can stay healthy or work through nagging ailments

2. Questionable qb play - Kitna was solid for 1 season 3 years ago. Not a guarentee that he can recapture that high level

3. New offense often needs time to gel

4. Oline is sub par and may limit the pocket time for the qb to get the ball deep

5. Work ethic - seemed to drop easy ones or run wrong routes often last year. Time will tell whether he is re-dedicated. The heart and determination in the opening post has not been that apparent thus far.

 

All that said, he has a ton of talent and is worth a shot this year. he could explode if things fall into place. Top 5 is very wishful thinking however. I would expect 70-1100-9 from him.

 

Pretty much my thoughts on him.

[ricanrockers 39]

As far as ROY..he will lead Detroit in every receiving category. What those numbers will be depends on Kitna, KJ and the Defense

 

If KJ gets going and can stay healthy and give them a decent running game it will minimize Kitna from tossing 30-35 times a game thus giving ROY modest numbers. 60-70 catches

 

If Kitna has to throw, his prime WR will be ROY and look for better numbers. I would say 80-90 catches.

 

Now, if the defense puts the team in a whole every game, look for Detroit to toss it alot so look to the above statement for ROY's projections.

[Sho Nuff 720]

As far as ROY..he will lead Detroit in every receiving category.

 

That is not really saying much.

[swamp dog 0]

That is not really saying much.

 

...and out-do all packer wrs...is that better? nah, that still really isn't saying much.

 

walter:

 

okay, you give reasons and you give projected stats. that's an opinion you're entitled to. but a question: if you have roy with more catches and substantially more yards (300-400 more)...why then only 1 td more that he's done the first two years? he's always be the #1 option in the endzone. that part of your logic doesn't make much sense, imo. if roy's getting more looks and more yards he should certainly be getting much more tds as well.

 

the work ethic thing is a bit of an unsubstantiated biased claim. regardless, you'll not find anything but glowing--glowing-- reports about him from this spring to now. from saturday's practice (det freep): "Judging from the crowd reaction, Roy Williams enters the season as the most popular Lion. He received heavy applause several times during Saturday's practice. He made three dazzling catches, including one for which he stretched out in the end zone. "

 

all media have been consistently praising him this summer, anyone who's watched him practice. your claims of a work ethic not yet being shown are false.

 

top-5 is very feasible if he stays healthy. not saying he WILL do that, only that you shouldn't be surprised if he does.

[ricanrockers 39]

That is not really saying much.

 

 

ok, how about this ....... he doubles all of the Titans WR numbers....Better?

 

If he stays healthy and plays all 16 games, the guy will be in the top 10 WR. Kitna is a good, not great but good enogh to get him the ball the way Harrington couldn't. He will connect with ROY on a regular basis. So IMO he should and probably will have a good year. I'm target him to be my WR2 and every mock draft that I've done, I'm getting him in the 3rd-4th rounds.

[Walter34 3]

...and out-do all packer wrs...is that better? nah, that still really isn't saying much.

 

walter:

 

okay, you give reasons and you give projected stats. that's an opinion you're entitled to. but a question: if you have roy with more catches and substantially more yards (300-400 more)...why then only 1 td more that he's done the first two years? he's always be the #1 option in the endzone. that part of your logic doesn't make much sense, imo. if roy's getting more looks and more yards he should certainly be getting much more tds as well.

 

the work ethic thing is a bit of an unsubstantiated biased claim. regardless, you'll not find anything but glowing--glowing-- reports about him from this spring to now. from saturday's practice (det freep): "Judging from the crowd reaction, Roy Williams enters the season as the most popular Lion. He received heavy applause several times during Saturday's practice. He made three dazzling catches, including one for which he stretched out in the end zone. "

 

all media have been consistently praising him this summer, anyone who's watched him practice. your claims of a work ethic not yet being shown are false.

 

top-5 is very feasible if he stays healthy. not saying he WILL do that, only that you shouldn't be surprised if he does.

 

The work ethic thing was common knowledge last year. Running his own routes, dropping balls, giving up on plays. No link required - it was obvious to all who watched.

 

Regarding the lower TDs, I see a ceiling on Kitna's pass TDs and also distribution among the RBs moreso than in the past. Review Martz's Ram teams and Holt never had big TD numbers.

 

I'm not saying that all of my negative points will happen, just that they are valid concerns. If they all happen, its another long year in Det. If they all are not an issue, its a damn good year in Det. Likely the reality will be somewhere in the middle.

[swamp dog 0]

The work ethic thing was common knowledge last year. Running his own routes, dropping balls, giving up on plays. No link required - it was obvious to all who watched.

 

Regarding the lower TDs, I see a ceiling on Kitna's pass TDs and also distribution among the RBs moreso than in the past. Review Martz's Ram teams and Holt never had big TD numbers.

 

I'm not saying that all of my negative points will happen, just that they are valid concerns. If they all happen, its another long year in Det. If they all are not an issue, its a damn good year in Det. Likely the reality will be somewhere in the middle.

 

okay, fair enough. you do provide reasons for your thought process here.

 

ok, how about this ....... he doubles all of the Titans WR numbers....Better?

 

If he stays healthy and plays all 16 games, the guy will be in the top 10 WR. Kitna is a good, not great but good enogh to get him the ball the way Harrington couldn't. He will connect with ROY on a regular basis. So IMO he should and probably will have a good year. I'm target him to be my WR2 and every mock draft that I've done, I'm getting him in the 3rd-4th rounds.

 

sho is primarily a packer fan who also happens to follow the titans on the side.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 38]

No where in either article you posted did Martz say anything close to:

 

"then the next guy after that is orlovsky--whom martz views as the true long-term answer at qb but is a little green yet. kill the messenger all you want. just saying..."

 

Just some typical preseason coach speak drivel about upside blah, blah, blah

 

Now, if you wish to post that as your opinion, do so. But, there is nothing in either article to support this "fact." Nice try.

 

I suggest you read the second article again and follow Orlovsky's lead:

 

"I don't get caught up in what Coach says," Orlovsky said.

[Sho Nuff 720]

...and out-do all packer wrs...is that better? nah, that still really isn't saying much.

 

Typical Swamp deflection....

 

Just like he outdid Driver the past 2 years right? Cue the swamp...he scored more TDs line....

Except...by 1 point per 20 yards and 6 per TD...DD scored just less than 114 points in 2004 adn just under 91 in 2005 (that by just dividing total receiving yards by 20....however we all know not each week did the totals add up to something over 20 or divisible by 20 so it will be just under those numbers).

For Roy...88 in 04 and 82 in 05.

 

Not to mention how much more consistent DD has been. No, this does not mean the same will happen this year...but I doubt he just goes out and outdoes all Packer WRs...as he has yet to do so in his career. There is more to a WR than TDs Swamp Puppy.

 

 

 

 

 

ok, how about this ....... he doubles all of the Titans WR numbers....Better?

 

If he stays healthy and plays all 16 games, the guy will be in the top 10 WR. Kitna is a good, not great but good enogh to get him the ball the way Harrington couldn't. He will connect with ROY on a regular basis. So IMO he should and probably will have a good year. I'm target him to be my WR2 and every mock draft that I've done, I'm getting him in the 3rd-4th rounds.

 

Thats great...say that. But I doubt he comes close to doubling Drew Bennetts numbers...but nice try.

 

Oh...and yes, I live in Nashville...I am a Titan Season ticket holder and follow the team pretty close...but I am a Packer fan (grew up in Wisconsin).

 

 

 

sho is primarily a packer fan who also happens to follow the titans on the side.

 

Not "primarily"...I am a Packer fan. Who follows the Titans and goes to games as they are the local team and I enjoy going to NFL games (and the Wife has become a pretty big Titans fan).

[swamp dog 0]

No where in either article you posted did Martz say anything close to:

 

"then the next guy after that is orlovsky--whom martz views as the true long-term answer at qb but is a little green yet. kill the messenger all you want. just saying..."

 

Just some typical preseason coach speak drivel about upside blah, blah, blah

 

Now, if you wish to post that as your opinion, do so. But, there is nothing in either article to support this "fact." Nice try.

 

I suggest you read the second article again and follow Orlovsky's lead:

 

"I don't get caught up in what Coach says," Orlovsky said.

 

i read the first three words of this dribble and then it was all the typical blah, blah, blah from you. predictable. sad. funny.

 

Typical Swamp deflection....

 

Just like he outdid Driver the past 2 years right? Cue the swamp...he scored more TDs line....

Except...by 1 point per 20 yards and 6 per TD...DD scored just less than 114 points in 2004 adn just under 91 in 2005 (that by just dividing total receiving yards by 20....however we all know not each week did the totals add up to something over 20 or divisible by 20 so it will be just under those numbers).

For Roy...88 in 04 and 82 in 05.

 

Not to mention how much more consistent DD has been. No, this does not mean the same will happen this year...but I doubt he just goes out and outdoes all Packer WRs...as he has yet to do so in his career. There is more to a WR than TDs Swamp Puppy.

 

Thats great...say that. But I doubt he comes close to doubling Drew Bennetts numbers...but nice try.

 

Oh...and yes, I live in Nashville...I am a Titan Season ticket holder and follow the team pretty close...but I am a Packer fan (grew up in Wisconsin).

Not "primarily"...I am a Packer fan. Who follows the Titans and goes to games as they are the local team and I enjoy going to NFL games (and the Wife has become a pretty big Titans fan).

 

i love deflecting just for you because it pisses you off so much that you habitually refer to it in every thread and no one cares or has any idea what the hell it is you're talking about.

 

check's walt's numbers for roy: those are about the same as driver's done in the past in his best years. driver is driver and he's done hit his ceiling a long time ago. roy doesn't have a ceiling.

 

i'll take roy in 2006. you can take driver. it's a free country

[Walter34 3]

i read the first three words of this dribble and then it was all the typical blah, blah, blah from you. predictable. sad. funny.

i love deflecting just for you because it pisses you off so much that you habitually refer to it in every thread and no one cares or has any idea what the hell it is you're talking about.

 

check's walt's numbers for roy: those are about the same as driver's done in the past in his best years. driver is driver and he's done hit his ceiling a long time ago. roy doesn't have a ceiling.

 

i'll take roy in 2006. you can take driver. it's a free country

 

Not to get in the middle of the lover's spat, but Driver has exceeded 80/1200 two years running and I have him projected to do it again. This is higher than my numbers for Roy above.

 

I'll take Donald in 2006.

 

Better qb in favre and he has no competition for balls in GB, so no reason to expect a decline.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 38]

i read the first three words of this dribble and then it was all the typical blah, blah, blah from you. predictable. sad. funny.

 

You could have just admitted that I owned you..........again. Less typing and says the same thing.

 

Now, go take a happy pill, go sit in you happy corner on your happy bean bag.

[swamp dog 0]

Not to get in the middle of the lover's spat, but Driver has exceeded 80/1200 two years running and I have him projected to do it again. This is higher than my numbers for Roy above.

 

I'll take Donald in 2006.

 

Better qb in favre and he has no competition for balls in GB, so no reason to expect a decline.

 

fair enough. it's a free country. see how easy it is to agree to disagree?

 

You could have just admitted that I owned you..........again. Less typing and says the same thing.

 

Now, go take a happy pill, go sit in you happy corner on your happy bean bag.

 

orlovsky is considered potentially the lions qb of the future, and this year the guy the lions would bring in if kitna and mccown falter--which was your original question. i provided the answer. apparently, you have a personal issue with orlovsky as you went wildly off the handle for me answering your question.

 

nowhere did i say orlovsky would be a pro bowler much less successful. that's an unknown right now. but i follow the detroit media concerning the lions on a daily basis and it has been attributed to martz that he thinks orlovsky's got the best long-term potential of the three and he furthermore has the best overall tools for what martz wants to do. does that guarantee orlovsky will be successful? no. does it GUARANTEE orlovsky will be the lions qb of the future? again, no. martz has also said he doesn't think orlovsky's ready yet--or at least that viewpoint has been attributed to martz. there hasn't been a definitive article about this specific topic--only asides in other articles and media reports.

 

versions of this story (yahoo, may 31) have been circulating in detroit radio and other media all summer:

 

"Speaking of Martz, the scuttlebutt in scouting circles is that the quarterback that has caught his eye this offseason isn't Jon Kitna or Josh McCown. Instead, Martz has been telling friends he's been very impressed with 2005 fifth-round pick Dan Orlovsky."

 

if you have info to the contrary, i will ask YOU to provide it. thanks in advance.

 

any lion homer on this board who has been following the lions this offseason can vouch for the above. believe or don't. your choice.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 38]

fair enough. it's a free country. see how easy it is to agree to disagree?

orlovsky is considered potentially the lions qb of the future, and this year the guy the lions would bring in if kitna and mccown falter--which was your original question. i provided the answer. apparently, you have a personal issue with orlovsky as you went wildly off the handle for me answering your question.

 

***Actually, that was a rhetorical question. I know Orlovsky is 3 now (actually in the mix for 2). My point was that it could be any of the 3 or someone else. It goes to the fact that Martz QB's get hurt. I have no idea of who may be starting by mid season given the Martz system and a poor O-line to boot.

 

nowhere did i say orlovsky would be a pro bowler much less successful. that's an unknown right now. but i follow the detroit media concerning the lions on a daily basis and it has been attributed to martz that he thinks orlovsky's got the best long-term potential of the three and he furthermore has the best overall tools for what martz wants to do. does that guarantee orlovsky will be successful? no. does it GUARANTEE orlovsky will be the lions qb of the future? again, no. martz has also said he doesn't think orlovsky's ready yet--or at least that viewpoint has been attributed to martz. there hasn't been a definitive article about this specific topic--only asides in other articles and media reports.

 

***Correct, you said what you said, it's been posted here numerous times and it is not fact but pure conjecture on your part based on pre-season coach speech.

 

versions of this story (yahoo, may 31) have been circulating in detroit radio and other media all summer:

 

"Speaking of Martz, the scuttlebutt in scouting circles is that the quarterback that has caught his eye this offseason isn't Jon Kitna or Josh McCown. Instead, Martz has been telling friends he's been very impressed with 2005 fifth-round pick Dan Orlovsky."

 

***And more pre-season coach speak. Sorry, but not the words you wrote.

 

if you have info to the contrary, i will ask YOU to provide it. thanks in advance.

 

***Never said I did. Just said that you attributed words to Martz that were never uttered. I was right.

 

any lion homer on this board who has been following the lions this offseason can vouch for the above. believe or don't. your choice.

 

Learn the words "infer," "my take" and "I think." Then you will not box yourself in as you have.

 

Nice try at obviscation tho, I will give you that. I am done with you now. You may go. Class over. Back to your happy corner.

 

Back on topic, I think Roy has a nice year barring injuries to himself and both Kitna and McCLown. Would guess somewhere around ~1100-9. Not much upside for reasons I mentioned and ceriainly some downside risk for reasons others and I have already mentioned.

[What is the deal? 1]

Learn the words "infer," "my take" and "I think." Then you will not box yourself in as you have.

 

Nice try at obviscation tho, I will give you that. I am done with you now. You may go. Class over. Back to your happy corner.

dude you just got owned. After you clearly proved you have no clue what you are talking about, why would I listen to what you have to say about Roy Williams.

 

I have no bones about Kitna being the man in Detroit.

 

While he was in Cincy. they had a pretty awful team. In 2002 and 2003 they were a combined 10-22.

 

Chad Johnson still had pretty good numbers with Kitna at the helm, especially considering he was only in his 2nd and 3rd years.

 

2002- 69 1166 16.9 5

2003- 90 1355 15.1 10

 

Roy probably has the same talent as Chad Johnson (just not as polished yet or proven he is as durable). So if he can stay healthy, I think he'll put up somewhere around 1250 and 7-9 TD's. Top 10 wr for sure.

[swamp dog 0]

Learn the words "infer," "my take" and "I think." Then you will not box yourself in as you have.

 

Nice try at obviscation tho, I will give you that. I am done with you now. You may go. Class over. Back to your happy corner.

 

Back on topic, I think Roy has a nice year barring injuries to himself and both Kitna and McCLown. Would guess somewhere around ~1100-9. Not much upside for reasons I mentioned and ceriainly some downside risk for reasons others and I have already mentioned.

 

you aren't done making an azz of yourself, so don't tease me by saying you're done with me.

[Sho Nuff 720]

i love deflecting just for you because it pisses you off so much that you habitually refer to it in every thread and no one cares or has any idea what the hell it is you're talking about.

 

check's walt's numbers for roy: those are about the same as driver's done in the past in his best years. driver is driver and he's done hit his ceiling a long time ago. roy doesn't have a ceiling.

 

i'll take roy in 2006. you can take driver. it's a free country

 

Pisses me off? No...it makes me laugh.

Looks like it gets under your skin though. And everyone understands what it means. Every thread about the Lions you deflect to another NFC north team....you do this with Walter, with the Packer fans, with DrJ. Anything that is brought up you bring up the Packers WRs or Benson with the Bears fans. It is your only defense and its laughable.

 

I never said who I would take...just disagreed with your foolish premise that he would just outdo them all.

 

While Roy may have a higher celing at this point in his career...so far his best has not been close to Driver's average past few years.

[swamp dog 0]

Pisses me off? No...it makes me laugh.

Looks like it gets under your skin though. And everyone understands what it means. Every thread about the Lions you deflect to another NFC north team....you do this with Walter, with the Packer fans, with DrJ. Anything that is brought up you bring up the Packers WRs or Benson with the Bears fans. It is your only defense and its laughable.

 

I never said who I would take...just disagreed with your foolish premise that he would just outdo them all.

 

While Roy may have a higher celing at this point in his career...so far his best has not been close to Driver's average past few years.

 

driver's "average the past few years": 1000/5 (approximately). roy's best in that same period: 850/8. thus, your claim that "(roy's) best has not been close to driver's average the past few years" is proven patently false.

 

your words, not mine.

 

but aside from that, driver's 31 and entering year eight in the league. this doesn't mean he's over the hill (yet) but it does mean we've seen everything on planet earth we're ever going to see of donald. there is no ceiling, nothing left, no next gear, no next level. period.

 

it may sound like i'm badmouthing him, but i'm not: i'd certainly draft him if the price were right. but you have him over-valued (naturally) to suggest he's in some other strata than roy at the moment. in most drafts, i suspect people will have your flawed thinking and have driver rated such that in order to get him they--and you--will have to spend an earlier draft pick on him than they--and you--would have to on roy.

 

the best value is take roy later and have his upside rather than be forced to take driver earlier and his zero upside.

[CantTouchThis 23]

ROY is a freakish talent, being a Det homer, this guy may be the most talented WR in the game today. However....he needs to stay healthy, and most of all, he needs a legit QB throwing to him. I can't forsee McCown offering this, i can see Kitna though. If Kitna comes through, and ROY stays healthy, you will see some sick numbers out of ROY. I am talking 1500 yards 15 TD type numbers, with Martz at the helm, and so much uncertainity to the #2 WR position. Those are all big ifs though. He could end up getting frequently injured, and Kitna sucking, and only get something like 800 and 5.

[Walter34 3]

driver's "average the past few years": 1000/5 (approximately). roy's best in that same period: 850/8. thus, your claim that "(roy's) best has not been close to driver's average the past few years" is proven patently false.

 

your words, not mine.

 

but aside from that, driver's 31 and entering year eight in the league. this doesn't mean he's over the hill (yet) but it does mean we've seen everything on planet earth we're ever going to see of donald. there is no ceiling, nothing left, no next gear, no next level. period.

 

it may sound like i'm badmouthing him, but i'm not: i'd certainly draft him if the price were right. but you have him over-valued (naturally) to suggest he's in some other strata than roy at the moment. in most drafts, i suspect people will have your flawed thinking and have driver rated such that in order to get him they--and you--will have to spend an earlier draft pick on him than they--and you--would have to on roy.

 

the best value is take roy later and have his upside rather than be forced to take driver earlier and his zero upside.

 

So now you are talking value instead of straight up? Different animal, but also irrelavent as both are going late 3rd this year.

 

Why you insist on manipulating numbers just to support an argument is beyond me and it takes away from your credibility. You do this constantly. People will take you more seriously if you try and be objective. The numbers are what they are - it doesnt strengthen your argument if you try and cherry pick the ones you like. You say his average is around 1000 yds, but you have to include the 600 yd year in 2003 to get his average down to Roy's stratosphere.

 

The past two years he has been remarkably consistent averaging 85/1215/7. Being the only legit WR in GB, there is no reason to think these numbers go down. It would be a remarkable boom for Roy to approach these numbers. Questionable qb, durability, line and new offence all point to Roy being a boom / bust option where his ceiling for this year is where Driver has levelled off.

[swamp dog 0]

So now you are talking value instead of straight up? Different animal, but also irrelavent as both are going late 3rd this year.

 

Why you insist on manipulating numbers just to support an argument is beyond me and it takes away from your credibility. You do this constantly. People will take you more seriously if you try and be objective. The numbers are what they are - it doesnt strengthen your argument if you try and cherry pick the ones you like. You say his average is around 1000 yds, but you have to include the 600 yd year in 2003 to get his average down to Roy's stratosphere.

 

The past two years he has been remarkably consistent averaging 85/1215/7. Being the only legit WR in GB, there is no reason to think these numbers go down. It would be a remarkable boom for Roy to approach these numbers. Questionable qb, durability, line and new offence all point to Roy being a boom / bust option where his ceiling for this year is where Driver has levelled off.

 

walter: i didn't manipulate any numbers. i provided the numbers associated with sho's EXACT quote. had i twisted his words around, that would be manipulating. i took his words at face value. that said, i'm sure he'll now modify his claim and change his word choice.

 

whether you take me seriously or not, i'm always--always--successful in ff. or fantasy hockey. or whatever the game is i play. so you listening to me or not is immaterial to my success.

 

 

 

if both are going in the late 3rd, there seems to be a a *lot* of people who think like i do on the subject--and *gasp* they're not *all* lion homers. talk about manipulation: you want to put me out on some island like i'm these lone, irrational just-don't-get-it person concerning roy.

 

but i'll turn it right back at you: it is impossible for YOU to be OBJECTIVE about the lions. utterly impossible. if you think roy's ceiling this year is only driver's "leveled off" ceiling, you're simply being a hater, walt. roy's ceiling, as many in the media have pointed out, is "limitless."

 

that doesn't mean roy's guaranteed to meet that ceiling or exceed it--but it does mean it's there and it's higher than driver's ceiling. by a loooonnnnnggg way. and people will and do PROJECT when playing ff and take into consideration the upside/ceiling of a player when drafting. that's why you see roy going in the same area of the draft as driver: a lot of people, if given the choice, will choose upside. and a lot of people are very successful following that approach.

 

guess that makes them all irrational homers in your book, eh?

 

knock yourself and go draft driver ahead of roy. it's a free country. nobody's stopping you.