who is catching your attention?

[2for3champ 0]

Drew Bennett had some very good games when Volek was at the helm a couple years ago....he may be a good 7th or 8th rounder.

Any thoughts Tenn homies?

[GhostofMeanMachine99 1]

yup

 

And so far in the preseason, he hasn't had the dropsies.

 

LJ looks very strong. I really can see him catching 5 balls a game this season easily. What's nice about this year is LJ has finally gained the confidence of both Reid and McNabb, so much so that Reid has designed a few TE screen plays for LJ.

[swamp dog 0]

How'd Donald Driver and Javon Walker work out for you?

 

I hope you didn't buy that hype.

 

Favre pulled 3 1000-yard seasons out of Billy Freakin' Schroeder a few years ago but he was never hyped that much.

 

Every freakin' year?

Name the 7 Packer receivers the last 7 years that have been overhyped.

 

if any idiot drafted walker and driver as rookies--like idiots here now are suggesting they'll do with jennings--those idiots were rewarded with numbers around 28/350/1. ditto rookie chad johnson. and all 5 rookie wrs in round 1 last year.

 

i hope to god idiots listen to you. then i can laugh while they beat their heads against the wall all season because they burned a mid-round pick on jennings in a re-draft league.

 

i've owned plenty of packer players over the years--favre numerous times, green, levens, bubba franks, freeman, driver, etc. i have no problems drafting a packer player if i think that player will help me win in ff. no problem whatsoever.

 

but anyone who drafts jennings this year and expects the rookie jennings to put up good ff numbers is an idiot. you play the percentages with rookie wrs. and the historical data and the percentages say do not draft rookie wrs in a re-draft league.

 

the end.

 

THere were never reports anywhere that Chatman was going to take Driver's job... He's a 5' 8" world league receiver and a kick returner who had 7 career catches to match a bunch of studly seasons Driver had put together. YOu're silly to insinuate anything else.

 

Driver was a 7th round pick who bloomed late. Nobody (even in GB) knew who he was until he broke out in '02.

 

Ferguson was never predicted to be the #1 guy for four years . You are nuts. So you're saying Walker went for 1350 and in the same season Driver went for 1250 and all the hype out of GB was over Ferguson's 200 yards ?

 

Are you making this sh!t up?

 

Mayes and Bradford were backups. I don't know who told you to draft them, but as a GB fan I could have told you that it's a bad idea.

 

the guy has a legitimate point. it's rather convenient for you to poo-poo all the packer rookie wrs in the past decade and infer that jennings is magically different and special and the hype of him is unique and fresh and groundbreaking.

 

er, right. we've heard this all before. many times. that doesn't prove jennings will or won't be successful, but it is a distinction that needs to be made.

[Striker99 0]

anybody heard of this Mike Bell guy ?

[Sho Nuff 720]

if any idiot drafted walker and driver as rookies--like idiots here now are suggesting they'll do with jennings--those idiots were rewarded with numbers around 28/350/1. ditto rookie chad johnson. and all 5 rookie wrs in round 1 last year.

 

i hope to god idiots listen to you. then i can laugh while they beat their heads against the wall all season because they burned a mid-round pick on jennings in a re-draft league.

 

i've owned plenty of packer players over the years--favre numerous times, green, levens, bubba franks, freeman, driver, etc. i have no problems drafting a packer player if i think that player will help me win in ff. no problem whatsoever.

 

but anyone who drafts jennings this year and expects the rookie jennings to put up good ff numbers is an idiot. you play the percentages with rookie wrs. and the historical data and the percentages say do not draft rookie wrs in a re-draft league.

 

the end.

 

 

Problem is...when Walker and Driver were rookies...they were not needed to step up as much as Jennings is needed to do today...nor did either of them look like Jennings has thus far.

[Cruzer 1,995]

dallas defense

[Sho Nuff 720]

Running Back Arliss Beach looked good. He comes with a good resume of NEVER fumbling in college and he catch the ball out of the backfield. I think he'll pass up Herron on the depth chart and I honestly think he has alot more to offer than Gado.

 

Gado has been working some at FB as well with Henderson injurred and Vonta Leach sucking out of the backfield as a receiver.

 

http://www.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/a.../608220470/1989

[swamp dog 0]

Problem is...when Walker and Driver were rookies...they were not needed to step up as much as Jennings is needed to do today...nor did either of them look like Jennings has thus far.

 

really? walker the first round pick didn't get rave reviews in camp and jennings has clearly looked better than walker did as a rookie? fascinating. you forget i live in packer country, son. i know better

 

just because the packers need someone to step up doesn't mean the person is capable of stepping up--especially a rookie wr. he hasn't passed ferguson on the depth chart yet. why? because he's a rookie learning the ropes.

 

enough: what are your predictions for jennings this year? some hard numbers, please.

[Sho Nuff 720]

There were reports in '04 and '05 that Antonio Chatman was going to take Driver's job because he was so freaking awesome and he and Favre had such a good rapport.

 

It's just manlove coming from the Green Bay media and I'm not buying into any of it. Driver will put up good numbers this year. Ferguson will put up OK numbers. Nobody else.

 

As another said...where were there ever reports that Chatman would do anything?

Same for Ferguson? The guy was never hyped as a #1 guy.

 

Ferguson is not even a lock to make the team at this point...so I would not say he will put up Ok numbers just yet.

[Jeremy 0]

those who draft him this year expecting consistent ff production his rookie year are going to be sorely disappointed. history is against him. he had 1 catch for 5 yards last night when it mattered and dropped a crucial third-down ball (first half). do the research: a vast majority of rookie wrs blow. i haven't seen anything from this kid that would cause me to confuse him with randy moss. next year? could be worth keeping an eye on. but i saw a ridiculous post that said he'd be gone this year by round 7 in a league of packer homers. ridiculous.

 

I wrote that, and he went in the 6th round. That is rediculous. I think he'll have a nice career, but that's way too early for a rookie based on a couple nice preseason games.

[Sho Nuff 720]

really? walker the first round pick didn't get rave reviews in camp and jennings has clearly looked better than walker did as a rookie? fascinating. you forget i live in packer country, son. i know better

 

just because the packers need someone to step up doesn't mean the person is capable of stepping up--especially a rookie wr. he hasn't passed ferguson on the depth chart yet. why? because he's a rookie learning the ropes.

 

enough: what are your predictions for jennings this year? some hard numbers, please.

 

 

Really...Walker was not getting quite the raving that Jennings is receiving right now...nor was he expected to be the #2 right off the bat as the expectations of Jennings are getting higher and higher.

 

You know better? By your history here...it is obvious you do not know better than anyone in any topic.

 

Did I say just because they need him to he will? Nope...but because they do, he will have more opportunities than rookies that are stuck at 3rd adn 4th on the depth chart where Jennings may very well be the #2.

 

Predictions? I do not recall saying he will do well...I have only refuted some of the BS out there as to why some thing he will not.

 

But keep up the BS...

[donhaas 18]

Predictions? I do not recall saying he will do well...I have only refuted some of the BS out there as to why some thing he will not.

 

But keep up the BS...

 

I haven't made any predictions on Jennings either. I don't know who Sampdog is arguing with.

 

I was refuting the point about Packer receivers and such.

 

 

The bet with Sampdog should have been Packer posts; not threads. This is useless. He can turn any post into Packer bashing. He's just not right in the head

 

What? Tommy Maddox will throw for 5,000 yards? Only through your green and gold glasses. Favre sucks, etc. etc.

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

I haven't made any predictions on Jennings either. I don't know who Sampdog is arguing with.

 

I was refuting the point about Packer receivers and such.

The bet with Sampdog should have been Packer posts; not threads. This is useless. He can turn any post into Packer bashing. He's just not right in the head

 

What? Tommy Maddox will throw for 5,000 yards? Only through your green and gold glasses. Favre sucks, etc. etc.

 

 

Hell...he posted in threads specifically about a Packer player (in a comparison to others).

 

I guess to him...if it does not say Packers in the thread title...he can post in it.

[mobb_deep 920]

The "hot chick" from LOST.....

 

which one? 4 or 5 of them are smoking hot.... Claire (Emilie de Ravin), Kate (Evangeline Lilly), Sun (Yoon-jin Kim), Ana-Lucia RIP (Michelle Rodriguez), and Shannon RIP (Maggie Grace).

 

oh yah... Jerious Norwood. If Dunn goes down he's gonna run wild (although Duckett will still get the GL's)

[swamp dog 0]

I haven't made any predictions on Jennings either. I don't know who Sampdog is arguing with.

 

I was refuting the point about Packer receivers and such.

The bet with Sampdog should have been Packer posts; not threads. This is useless. He can turn any post into Packer bashing. He's just not right in the head

 

What? Tommy Maddox will throw for 5,000 yards? Only through your green and gold glasses. Favre sucks, etc. etc.

 

 

it's not bashing. you just happen to think it is whenever the data doesn't make a packer look like a god.

 

refute what i've posted about jennings. knock yourself out. let's hear it.

 

Hell...he posted in threads specifically about a Packer player (in a comparison to others).

 

I guess to him...if it does not say Packers in the thread title...he can post in it.

 

you're also welcome to refute what i've written about how unwise it is to draft jennings and expect anything this year. go ahead.

 

and this isn't a packer thread. too bad so sad.

[Sho Nuff 720]

it's not bashing. you just happen to think it is whenever the data doesn't make a packer look like a god.

 

refute what i've posted about jennings. knock yourself out. let's hear it.

you're also welcome to refute what i've written about how unwise it is to draft jennings and expect anything this year. go ahead.

 

and this isn't a packer thread. too bad so sad.

 

 

Funny...you have not refuted what others have said about him either...but nice try.

 

Nobody in this thread is saying taking the guy high...nobody has given any outrageous speculations. It was about who is catching your attention...and thus far, not just to Packer fans, Jennings is catching people's attention.

[swamp dog 0]

Really...Walker was not getting quite the raving that Jennings is receiving right now...nor was he expected to be the #2 right off the bat as the expectations of Jennings are getting higher and higher.

 

You know better? By your history here...it is obvious you do not know better than anyone in any topic.

 

Did I say just because they need him to he will? Nope...but because they do, he will have more opportunities than rookies that are stuck at 3rd adn 4th on the depth chart where Jennings may very well be the #2.

 

Predictions? I do not recall saying he will do well...I have only refuted some of the BS out there as to why some thing he will not.

 

But keep up the BS...

 

okay, let's DOUBLE the typical rookie wr numbers for the golden boy jennings. that still puts him around 600/2-3.

 

you gonna draft him in a re-draft? no? good. then we agree. see how easy that is?

[Brad GLuckman 519]

It's too early to tell if Jennings should be drafted right now. I don't think GB has a clear cut #2 right now, and everything depends on that. If it isn't Jennings, then Swamp is right, he doesn't warrant a draft pick. But if he does end up the #2, then he could put up some decent stats. Now I'm not positive on this, but I'm guessing most rookie receivers don't start at #2 their rookie seasons, which would result in their poor fantasy #'s. So if Jennings does start, for a Packers offense that will most likely throw often (even though MM is big on running) then he may be a good late round pick.

 

Can we all stop fighting now?

[zmanzzzz 1]

drew bledsoe.

[Sho Nuff 720]

okay, let's DOUBLE the typical rookie wr numbers for the golden boy jennings. that still puts him around 600/2-3.

 

you gonna draft him in a re-draft? no? good. then we agree. see how easy that is?

 

 

More BS and spin.

 

Again...what is the title of this thread?

 

Where did anyone in this thread predict the guy will do much this year? Is this thread just about re-drafts?

 

You are basing your anger in this thread over comments possibly made somewhere else about where he was taken. Time to get over it...and stay with the actual topic.

[mobb_deep 920]

Neighborhood chic across the way looks impressive - where were these girls when I was 17?

 

kindergarten

 

I'm telling you it's that milk these kids are drinking now.

[Electric Uncle Sam 0]

Elisha Cuthbert

 

 

[Ras66not99 0]

which one? 4 or 5 of them are smoking hot.... Claire (Emilie de Ravin), Kate (Evangeline Lilly), Sun (Yoon-jin Kim), Ana-Lucia RIP (Michelle Rodriguez), and Shannon RIP (Maggie Grace).

 

oh yah... Jerious Norwood. If Dunn goes down he's gonna run wild (although Duckett will still get the GL's)

 

Claire

 

And for you IDP'ers Julian Peterson being lined up as a pash rusher on 3rd downs for Seattle is a very nice thing.... he moves up the IDP LB chart with that news

[Moss 0]

i like it man...this level is who we need to be talking about. We know the early rounds, its the middle tier analysis thats key right now.

 

well done js

 

Mason, Coles, Rod Smith, Keyshawn, McCardel, Bennett, Givens, Bryant, Glenn, Bruce, Moulds, Jurevicious, Horn etc

 

these guys are key to anyone still going with "Stud RB". (probably me)

 

 

Agreed. I'm having the same problem, trying to figure which mid-round WR can start. Keep up the good work guys with the insights.

[swamp dog 0]

 

More BS and spin.

 

Again...what is the title of this thread?

 

Where did anyone in this thread predict the guy will do much this year? Is this thread just about re-drafts?

 

You are basing your anger in this thread over comments possibly made somewhere else about where he was taken. Time to get over it...and stay with the actual topic.

 

i've seen the first half of both packer games. i don't remember seeing jennings standout at all. i remember him catching 1 pass for 5 yards in the first half and dropping a second one on third down that forced the packers to punt last week. i remember ferguson starting ahead of him in both games and looking better in the first half of those games.

 

but that still goes against the title of the thread, as he didn't catch my eye

[JT 137]

the guy has a legitimate point. it's rather convenient for you to poo-poo all the packer rookie wrs in the past decade and infer that jennings is magically different and special and the hype of him is unique and fresh and groundbreaking.

 

He said poo-poo.

[De Novo 0]

As another said...where were there ever reports that Chatman would do anything?

Same for Ferguson? The guy was never hyped as a #1 guy.

 

Ferguson is not even a lock to make the team at this point...so I would not say he will put up Ok numbers just yet.

 

I definitely saw some hype about Chatman being a legitimate deep threat a couple years ago. Also, there were people on this bored last year (and the year before to a lesser extent) salivating over Robert Ferguson because he was an even better WR than Driver and would emerge as the top fantasy threat. Maybe I was confusing the years that Driver was hyped, but I'm not making the other stuff up. 5 years from now, everyone will be saying "if you asked any Packer fan about Jennings, they'd have said he had no chance of being a fantasy threat." I drank the Kool-Aid in the past... my point was that I'm not drinking it any more. Every year, Brett Favre has a new favorite receiver who is gonna blow the doors off. This year it's Jennings. Next year it's somebody else.

[swamp dog 0]

I definitely saw some hype about Chatman being a legitimate deep threat a couple years ago. Also, there were people on this bored last year (and the year before to a lesser extent) salivating over Robert Ferguson because he was an even better WR than Driver and would emerge as the top fantasy threat. Maybe I was confusing the years that Driver was hyped, but I'm not making the other stuff up. 5 years from now, everyone will be saying "if you asked any Packer fan about Jennings, they'd have said he had no chance of being a fantasy threat." I drank the Kool-Aid in the past... my point was that I'm not drinking it any more. Every year, Brett Favre has a new favorite receiver who is gonna blow the doors off. This year it's Jennings. Next year it's somebody else.

 

 

very true.

[Sho Nuff 720]

i've seen the first half of both packer games. i don't remember seeing jennings standout at all. i remember him catching 1 pass for 5 yards in the first half and dropping a second one on third down that forced the packers to punt last week. i remember ferguson starting ahead of him in both games and looking better in the first half of those games.

 

but that still goes against the title of the thread, as he didn't catch my eye

 

You whine about Jenning's one catch in the first half...leave out his other receptions...then talk up Ferguson who has caught all of 3 receptions this preseason?

 

Yeah...you have some credibility...

 

Great...then say he did not catch your eye...rather than jumping to this do not draft him in a redraft crap and start talking about previous WRs for the Packers. What is it about past performance and future results?

 

Oh wait...that only applies when it helps your argument right?

 

I definitely saw some hype about Chatman being a legitimate deep threat a couple years ago. Also, there were people on this bored last year (and the year before to a lesser extent) salivating over Robert Ferguson because he was an even better WR than Driver and would emerge as the top fantasy threat. Maybe I was confusing the years that Driver was hyped, but I'm not making the other stuff up. 5 years from now, everyone will be saying "if you asked any Packer fan about Jennings, they'd have said he had no chance of being a fantasy threat." I drank the Kool-Aid in the past... my point was that I'm not drinking it any more. Every year, Brett Favre has a new favorite receiver who is gonna blow the doors off. This year it's Jennings. Next year it's somebody else.

 

So...now your going from some reports of him being a number one to him supposedly being a deep threat?

 

Nobody last year salivated about Ferguson being better than Driver last year given the year he had in 2004 and that Ferguson was being talked about solely as a good #3 guy (which he did not even do well last year). That right there shows me you are just making crap up...because I do not recall a single poster ever talking up Ferguson in that manner last year. Nice try. Yes, I believe you are making it up.

 

Great...you drank some kool-aid that nobody was actually serving and you might have found one person hyping such things...good job.

 

Again...this thread was not about hyping somone or saying he will put up great numbers. It was that he caught someone's attention thus far and looks good. Which...by the way...he does.

 

 

 

 

very true.

 

What was true?

 

You for one should know that not a single person hyped Ferguson up as taking over for Driver last year. And why would they with what Driver did in 2004.

 

The previous seasons there was talk that he may step up...being his 4th (really his third of any significant playing time) year...and he may be along side Driver rather than Walker exploding as he did. That and he was coming off of a solid performance in the playoff game vs. Philly.

[rebooters 1]

glenn...i had him last year as a late rounder and have been high on him since. he can still be had relatively late and after watching him last night i just hope his adp doesnt bump up too high.

[swamp dog 0]

You whine about Jenning's one catch in the first half...leave out his other receptions...then talk up Ferguson who has caught all of 3 receptions this preseason?

 

Yeah...you have some credibility...

 

Great...then say he did not catch your eye...rather than jumping to this do not draft him in a redraft crap and start talking about previous WRs for the Packers. What is it about past performance and future results?

 

Oh wait...that only applies when it helps your argument right?

So...now your going from some reports of him being a number one to him supposedly being a deep threat?

 

Nobody last year salivated about Ferguson being better than Driver last year given the year he had in 2004 and that Ferguson was being talked about solely as a good #3 guy (which he did not even do well last year). That right there shows me you are just making crap up...because I do not recall a single poster ever talking up Ferguson in that manner last year. Nice try. Yes, I believe you are making it up.

 

Great...you drank some kool-aid that nobody was actually serving and you might have found one person hyping such things...good job.

 

Again...this thread was not about hyping somone or saying he will put up great numbers. It was that he caught someone's attention thus far and looks good. Which...by the way...he does.

What was true?

 

You for one should know that not a single person hyped Ferguson up as taking over for Driver last year. And why would they with what Driver did in 2004.

 

The previous seasons there was talk that he may step up...being his 4th (really his third of any significant playing time) year...and he may be along side Driver rather than Walker exploding as he did. That and he was coming off of a solid performance in the playoff game vs. Philly.

 

and you conveniently leave out the plays jennings looked like a rookie and/or ran the wrong route and/or dropped the ball. really: as if a guy who shiats green and yellow has any credibility in the matter. at least i've seen jennings play--unlike you commenting on the play of players elsewhere you haven't seen play this year.

 

i saw what i saw. i didn't see the second half of the games. what i did see was ferguson looking better RIGHT NOW.

 

you and don are desperately trying to paint me as some irrational packer hater. i've owned all the packer players over the years at one point or another. and guess what? i'll maybe try to snag jennings late in my keeper league and see if he amounts to something.

[Raider 84 29]

Vernand Morency!

[Sho Nuff 720]

and you conveniently leave out the plays jennings looked like a rookie and/or ran the wrong route and/or dropped the ball. really: as if a guy who shiats green and yellow has any credibility in the matter. at least i've seen jennings play--unlike you commenting on the play of players elsewhere you haven't seen play this year.

 

i saw what i saw. i didn't see the second half of the games. what i did see was ferguson looking better RIGHT NOW.

 

you and don are desperately trying to paint me as some irrational packer hater. i've owned all the packer players over the years at one point or another. and guess what? i'll maybe try to snag jennings late in my keeper league and see if he amounts to something.

 

 

Conveniently leave out plays? Funny...considering I have not mentioned any real specific plays...I have talked about nor left out nothing.

 

And you questioning anyone's credibility on the topic is funny enough...seeing how you criticize nearly everythign the team does...and your history of leaving for the offseason and then welching on a bet.

 

What I have questioned about Mike has nothing to do with the one catch he made...it is a general and factual observation that I am not the only one making...

 

Great...you saw what you saw...Ferguson has done little to really prove himself in the past...or even this year...Jennings is turning heads...whether you are in that group or not.

 

We need not paint you as such...you do well enough on your own...that you have owned some Packers over the year means very little.

[De Novo 0]

Nobody last year salivated about Ferguson being better than Driver last year given the year he had in 2004 and that Ferguson was being talked about solely as a good #3 guy (which he did not even do well last year). That right there shows me you are just making crap up...because I do not recall a single poster ever talking up Ferguson in that manner last year. Nice try. Yes, I believe you are making it up.

 

No, you're right. It was heading into '04 that I was talking about. Driver was coming off a bad year, and Ferguson was coming off a similar year production-wise and was heading into the magical 3rd year iirc. I got the year wrong, but there was talk that Driver was done and it was Ferguson's show.

[phillybear 366]

For value, LJ Smith.

 

McNabb has throw alot of balls his way so far. If the young WRs can't step up this year, he (along with Westbrook) will be the primary target in the passing game.

 

I haven't seen him rated in any top 5 for TEs this year, but I can see him putting up top 5 TE numbers.

 

Completely agree. I grabbed him in a couple of drafts already.

[jerryskids 6,793]

but anyone who drafts jennings this year and expects the rookie jennings to put up good ff numbers is an idiot. you play the percentages with rookie wrs. and the historical data and the percentages say do not draft rookie wrs in a re-draft league.

 

the end.

Amen, brutha. Nothing personal against the Packs or Jennings, but hell I'm in a keeper league, and I've drunk the koolaid on rookie WR hype early in my FF career.

 

Even year 2 is a risk, although less so for a keeper league. Still, I tend to wait for year 3 or beyond for WRs.

 

Completely agree. I grabbed him in a couple of drafts already.

Your draft sucked yesterday. HTH.

[muzz 0]

I'm gonna take a LONGSHOT, and say that a player that has a CHANCE to do better(maybe ALOT) than expected is...............

 

Corey Bradford

 

I just wish he was available in my league still, he was drafted in the 15th rd, which I though was odd, that guy will never start him with the talent he has already on his roster.

 

As we all know, Martz is the toss-the-rock master, and he loves speedy guys, and 1 thing Bradford has, is speed.

I'm not too worried about who's catching my eye RIGHT NOW, I'm thinking of who's gonna get the rock when it counts.

 

No guarantees of course, but we are talking about Martz after all.

 

Morency is my other pick, Kubiak seems to like the kid, and lets face it, DD isn't the best picture of a healthy body.

[phillybear 366]

Your draft sucked yesterday. HTH.

 

Liar. I'll murder you.

[swamp dog 0]

I'm gonna take a LONGSHOT, and say that a player that has a CHANCE to do better(maybe ALOT) than expected is...............

 

Corey Bradford

 

I just wish he was available in my league still, he was drafted in the 15th rd, which I though was odd, that guy will never start him with the talent he has already on his roster.

 

As we all know, Martz is the toss-the-rock master, and he loves speedy guys, and 1 thing Bradford has, is speed.

I'm not too worried about who's catching my eye RIGHT NOW, I'm thinking of who's gonna get the rock when it counts.

 

No guarantees of course, but we are talking about Martz after all.

 

Morency is my other pick, Kubiak seems to like the kid, and lets face it, DD isn't the best picture of a healthy body.

 

i still can't get excited about bradford as an ff player. i think he'll contribute nicely as a football player in martz's offense, but i just don't see him bettering his career average numbers. he's been rather invisible so far this preseason, but he and roy haven't been getting a lot of playing time, either.

[shasha 0]

i still can't get excited about bradford as an ff player. i think he'll contribute nicely as a football player in martz's offense, but i just don't see him bettering his career average numbers. he's been rather invisible so far this preseason, but he and roy haven't been getting a lot of playing time, either.

Corey Bradford is one name that I have heard some buzz catching up too, but jeez, I thought that he had retired or just died. He hasn't done a thing since he bolted from GB and with that mess in Detroit, who knows what the hell is going to happen. If I recall correctly the only guy that has really played well in the past 10 years at WR besides Roy was guys like Scotty Montgomery, Kircus and that Martinez guy...you know all the affordable guys that just played hard and got the job done.

 

But Kitna is another one that no one is really talking about. He usually does just enough to tease a team into thinking they can make a playoff run, but stat wise the guy has put up a few pretty good seasons. In that offense he could be on par with a mildly retarded version of Marc Bulger. Not calling Kitna retarded or anything.