Panthers like Brady?

[The_Mad_Cats 0]

I'm sure many of you have already read the article:

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...articleid=27614

 

"There is some talk around the Senior Bowl that Panthers representatives showed a special interest in Quinn when he made his surprise appearance on Monday. John Fox and Notre Dame head coach Charlie Weis go way back and Carolina may be looking for 31-year-old Jake Delhomme's successor. Delhomme struggled in 2006, so Quinn could be starting by mid-season if Delhomme falters again, and the Panthers trade up in the first round. Currently holding the No. 14 overall pick, Carolina would likely have to shop a Kris Jenkins or a Chris Gamble to move up the board, possibly dangling Gamble and their pick to Detroit at No. 2. Despite a rough Sugar Bowl, I can't see Quinn falling past Miami at No. 9."

 

I don't think Gamble and the number 14 pick is enough for Detroit's number 2 pick. Plus, the Panther's need help at the LB and S spots.

 

Thoughts?

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

I'm sure many of you have already read the article:

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...articleid=27614

 

"There is some talk around the Senior Bowl that Panthers representatives showed a special interest in Quinn when he made his surprise appearance on Monday. John Fox and Notre Dame head coach Charlie Weis go way back and Carolina may be looking for 31-year-old Jake Delhomme's successor. Delhomme struggled in 2006, so Quinn could be starting by mid-season if Delhomme falters again, and the Panthers trade up in the first round. Currently holding the No. 14 overall pick, Carolina would likely have to shop a Kris Jenkins or a Chris Gamble to move up the board, possibly dangling Gamble and their pick to Detroit at No. 2. Despite a rough Sugar Bowl, I can't see Quinn falling past Miami at No. 9."

 

I don't think Gamble and the number 14 pick is enough for Detroit's number 2 pick. Plus, the Panther's need help at the LB and S spots.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

 

I'm quite positive Detroit would demand a whole lot more than just Gamble. Gamble's a nice start but Carolina would have to take a much bigger hit than that for Detroit to drop from 2 to 14. Swapping and Gamble will not cut it.

[famousb 11]

I'm sure many of you have already read the article:

 

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/features/...articleid=27614

 

"There is some talk around the Senior Bowl that Panthers representatives showed a special interest in Quinn when he made his surprise appearance on Monday. John Fox and Notre Dame head coach Charlie Weis go way back and Carolina may be looking for 31-year-old Jake Delhomme's successor. Delhomme struggled in 2006, so Quinn could be starting by mid-season if Delhomme falters again, and the Panthers trade up in the first round. Currently holding the No. 14 overall pick, Carolina would likely have to shop a Kris Jenkins or a Chris Gamble to move up the board, possibly dangling Gamble and their pick to Detroit at No. 2. Despite a rough Sugar Bowl, I can't see Quinn falling past Miami at No. 9."

 

I don't think Gamble and the number 14 pick is enough for Detroit's number 2 pick. Plus, the Panther's need help at the LB and S spots.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Where's Swamp at when you need the draft pick value review? a POS CB and the #14 overall pick comes NOWHERE close to the value of the #2 overall pick...

 

w/ that said. BRADY QUINN SUX! as a CAR fan and homer, i was jokingly stating to my friends last year about Jake having "one more bad game and i'm buying a custom Panthers jersey w/ Quinn on the back" cause i knew the speculation would run wild. Now that Fox has hired Davidson w/ supposedly Weiss' endorsement, it's like we're playing 6 degrees of separation w/ Charlie Weiss as the central point.

Sure Davidson coached w/ Weiss and has his endorsement. Sure Fox is good friends w/ Weiss. Sure Brady Quinn was the POS QB that is from ND that Weiss coached. But to me, that doesn't add up as CAR trading up and taking a backup/developmental QB when there are other holes to fill (particularly OL, S, and LB).

Compound that with the fact Fox doesn't have as much rope to play w/ as in previous years, as exhibited by the forced firing of Dan Henning (Fox's long-time stooge and butt-buddy), and i can't see any reason Fox would trade up to bring in a developmental prospect.

It's like the story of a CAR scout talking to Quinn for 15 minutes was blown up. 15 minutes? are you kidding me? If the scout didn't interview every top 20 potential draft pick for at least 15 minutes he probably would have been fired. You have to have at least something on a guy in case of the possibility of him falling down to you in the draft (look how far Leinhart fell last year, or Aaron Rodgers fell, or even Ben Roethlisberger).

I don't even know if CAR should take him if he did fall all the way to #14.

 

ps. sorry for the rant about fox/henning...

[JScott 20]

Where's Swamp at when you need the draft pick value review? a POS CB and the #14 overall pick comes NOWHERE close to the value of the #2 overall pick...

 

According to Dodds:

 

#2 = #14 + #46 (2% diff)

 

I haven't looked it up but I assume CAR still has their second round pick (#46 overall ?). So IF Gamble is valued at a mid-second round pick than on paper iy looks pretty even.

[famousb 11]

According to Dodds:

 

#2 = #14 + #46 (2% diff)

 

I haven't looked it up but I assume CAR still has their second round pick (#46 overall ?). So IF Gamble is valued at a mid-second round pick than on paper iy looks pretty even.

i thought it was higher than that... (but what do i know?)

 

thanks for the info...

granted, i would be willing to get rid of Gamble in a heartbeat if he was going to play like this past season - but i'd rather get something else than Brady Queen for him...

[The Moz 69]

Thats what every focker said about Peyton Manning when he came out of Tennessee ! Could never win the big game , overated , etc. He ends up bein g the Dan Marino of this generation ! Maybe Quinn is indeed a total bust But I think he could be a really great NFL QB -- has the right size, arm stength , mobility , game intelligence from WEiss ( if he can learn and run Weiss's complex system he can learn anyones ) . Delhomme is not the answer in Carolina

[Eagles Green 34]

Write it down, Brady Quinn will be an NFL superstar. He has all of the physical tools be a great one.

 

 

I just hope he goes to the AFC. He could do some damage.

[jeffkomlo 19]

According to Dodds:

 

#2 = #14 + #46 (2% diff)

 

I haven't looked it up but I assume CAR still has their second round pick (#46 overall ?). So IF Gamble is valued at a mid-second round pick than on paper iy looks pretty even.

 

Like this deal with Gamble: Lions could draft D with no.14 pick (Gaines, Woodley-would love to see him in Honolulu Blue ,Leon Hall) and get a quality OL at no. 46 (Staley)

We would improve secondary and gain help on D and O lines. maybe get Carolina to throw in RB too - wishful thinking.

Lions need so much help.

[famousb 11]

being a CAR homer/fan, i would definitely say Gamble is worth a second round pick... i'll GIVE a second round pick to anyone willing to TAKE Gamble!!

(at least after the way he played this past season at CB, not to mention the lateral-to-nowhere routine against MIN).

[Phurfur 70]

Write it down, Brady Quinn will be an NFL superstar. He has all of the physical tools be a great one.

I just hope he goes to the AFC. He could do some damage.

 

 

Don't drink the kool-aid the guy is over hyped and is missing that special ingredient (Intangables) that make a QB great. He has never won a BIG game in college and I don't see that changing. Can you say Rick Mirer.

[famousb 11]

Can you say Rick Mirer.

 

i was thinking more of Ron Powlus...

 

 

oh wait, isn't he the QB coach at ND? he MUST be teaching Quinn how to be a winner in the NFL!

[Phurfur 70]

i was thinking more of Ron Powlus...

oh wait, isn't he the QB coach at ND? he MUST be teaching Quinn how to be a winner in the NFL!

 

Ouch!

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

i was thinking more of Ron Powlus...

oh wait, isn't he the QB coach at ND? he MUST be teaching Quinn how to be a winner in the NFL!

 

Mirer, Marinovich, Powlus - wow, not exactly the greatest legacy recently, is it?

[famousb 11]

Mirer, Marinovich, Powlus - wow, not exactly the greatest legacy recently, is it?

yeah really, almost makes the QBs from Steve Spurrier's Florida days look like good NFL prospects... oh wait, Rex Grossman played for Spurrier...

[jdswan922 0]

Mirer, Marinovich, Powlus - wow, not exactly the greatest legacy recently, is it?

You also left out Montana and Theissman

[Vikings4ever 496]

According to Dodds:

 

#2 = #14 + #46 (2% diff)

 

I haven't looked it up but I assume CAR still has their second round pick (#46 overall ?). So IF Gamble is valued at a mid-second round pick than on paper iy looks pretty even.

That is the FANTASY pick value.

 

Link to the NFL pick value

 

2 = 2600

14 + 46 = 1540

14 + 46 + Gamble (assuming he's equal to 46) = 1980

[The Football Guru 214]

Two things:

 

1) Charlie Weis said earlier this year (I think it was during the week of their bowl game) that Brady Quinn would be a top 3 QB in the NFL within 3 years. I'm not sure I agree with the timeline of that and I know he hasn't exactly played well in big games, yet I like to think that Weis may know a bit more about QB play than the rest of us on this board (I know that hurts some of you...)

 

2) If we're looking of the six degrees of seperation for Weis and Quinn, why wouldn't he go to Cleveland with former Pats DC Romeo Crennel? I think he goes to the Browns and by 2010, we can argue which of the Ohio-based NFL QBs is the best one.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

You also left out Montana and Theissman

 

That's why I said "recently". Back 30 years ago, I totally agree with you.

[dominus florenzus 0]

There is so much damn hype over Quinn... If I was a GM I would not draft the guy. He seems to me like another Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Dave Brown, Todd Marinovich...

[famousb 11]

That's why I said "recently". Back 30 years ago, I totally agree with you.

yeah, saying Montana and Theisman were part of ND's "recent" history is like saying ND has won alot of bowl games lately...

[t.j 35]

There is so much damn hype over Quinn... If I was a GM I would not draft the guy. He seems to me like another Ryan Leaf, Rick Mirer, Dave Brown, Todd Marinovich...

 

I wouldn't put Leaf and Marinovich in the same category as Mirer and Brown, totally different problems with those players. I think Quinn will be a good player in the NFL. He appears to have the toughness and skillset to make it. I think he showed that he can spread the ball around the way NFL teams are looking for (WRs, TEs, RBs) and scramble a bit without tending to scramble too much. He was well-coached by one of the best and having had a great coach can continue to help a QB for years. I think he'll be better as a young player than a lot of other highly-touted QBs, and how he fares in the long-run will depend (like most QBs) largely on what team he ends up with.

[Phurfur 70]

You also left out Montana and Theissman

 

 

You may as well add Paul Horning to your list

 

 

 

I wouldn't put Leaf and Marinovich in the same category as Mirer and Brown, totally different problems with those players. I think Quinn will be a good player in the NFL. He appears to have the toughness and skillset to make it. I think he showed that he can spread the ball around the way NFL teams are looking for (WRs, TEs, RBs) and scramble a bit without tending to scramble too much. He was well-coached by one of the best and having had a great coach can continue to help a QB for years. I think he'll be better as a young player than a lot of other highly-touted QBs, and how he fares in the long-run will depend (like most QBs) largely on what team he ends up with.

 

He may have the skill set but allot of player do. I feel he is missing that intangible, the heart and desire to take a team on his back and do what ever needs to be done to win. (Or if he has this desire he is not good enough to make that difference) John Elway might be one the best examples of someone who does. The NFL is littered with those that don't. I saw this deficit in Joey Harrington right away but I believe David Carr has it. The fact that Quinn never won a big game at the college level speaks volumes. If he is ever going to win he needs a great team around him.

[t.j 35]

You may as well add Paul Horning to your list

He may have the skill set but allot of player do. I feel he is missing that intangible, the heart and desire to take a team on his back and do what ever needs to be done to win. (Or if he has this desire he is not good enough to make that difference)

 

Why do you think that about Quinn?

[Phurfur 70]

Why do you think that about Quinn?

 

 

I never saw that out of him. He looked good against weaker opponents but in the big games he wasn't the one out there firing up the team and leading by example. He always came up short. The NFL is a long way from the weak schedule ND plays; he will be playing a USC or OSU every week. I just think he will need a great team around him to succeed. If he goes to a lesser team he will struggle like Joey Harrington. Remember this guy has been given all this hype without really accomplishing anything and he was at a top school with a top program with a top coach.

[t.j 35]

I never saw that out of him. He looked good against weaker opponents but in the big games he wasn't the one out there firing up the team and leading by example. He always came up short. The NFL is a long way from the weak schedule ND plays; he will be playing a USC or OSU every week. I just think he will need a great team around him to succeed. If he goes to a lesser team he will struggle like Joey Harrington. Remember this guy has been given all this hype without really accomplishing anything and he was at a top school with a top program with a top coach.

 

Well, I disagree, from what I saw of Quinn is that he has the fire that you want a leader to have. You may have seen more of him than I did. I thought he looked the part in the UCLA game. I wouldn't compare his intangibles to Joey Harrington at all.

 

I don't think you can hold it so much against him that he lost against the best teams they played. For as much as you want to label Notre Dame a "top program" they did not have good enough players outside of the QB position to hang with Michigan, USC, and LSU. Notre Dame's defense was pitiful this year and offensively their running game was not particularly strong either. The Irish gave up an average of 44 points in their 3 losses this year. Yes Quinn had the benefit of a great coach... that's a benefit that like I said will likely continue to serve him well early in his NFL career. Tom Brady hasn't forgotten everything Weis taught him (although he does miss Weis' play-calling).

 

I don't buy it that he is a special risk to be a disaster if he goes to a lesser team. Any QB is going to be better with a better team around him, I don't think this is any more true for Quinn than for the other QB prospects. Guys like Elway and Marino who can do it on their own are very few and far between, I don't think it's necessary to try to compare any rookie prospects to those first-ballot Hall of Famers.

[jdswan922 0]

That's why I said "recently". Back 30 years ago, I totally agree with you.

Apparently "recent" is a very relative term because Mirer was 14 years ago, Powlus was never drafted to the best of my knowledge which would take him out of the comparison, Marinovich went to USC (and in 1991 anyway so 16 years ago). The difference between 14 and 28 years is not significant if we are talking about 120 years of football at Notre Dame.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

Apparently "recent" is a very relative term because Mirer was 14 years ago, Powlus was never drafted to the best of my knowledge which would take him out of the comparison, Marinovich went to USC (and in 1991 anyway so 16 years ago). The difference between 14 and 28 years is not significant if we are talking about 120 years of football at Notre Dame.

 

Whoops!

 

Thanks for correcting me - why was I thinking that Marinovich went to Notre Dame?

[jdswan922 0]

Whoops!

 

Thanks for correcting me - why was I thinking that Marinovich went to Notre Dame?

I am guessing maybe the rivalry

[swamp dog 0]

um, yeah, a team is going to waltz from the teens to #2 by offering one good player and the swap of first round pick.

 

not.

 

if the panthers add their second round pick, that'd be the start (stress the word "start") of talks.

[jeffkomlo 19]

um, yeah, a team is going to waltz from the teens to #2 by offering one good player and the swap of first round pick.

 

not.

 

if the panthers add their second round pick, that'd be the start (stress the word "start") of talks.

We're talking about the Lions here. Everyones telling them to trade down. They ought to jump at a 1st round pick, a second round pick and a good player, Lions are weak at every position.

[famousb 11]

um, yeah, a team is going to waltz from the teens to #2 by offering one good player and the swap of first round pick.

not.

if the panthers add their second round pick, that'd be the start (stress the word "start") of talks.

 

if we're still talking about Gamble here, I believe the offer was we'll give you our second round pick for simply taking Gamble, period.

 

ps. if we are still talking about Gamble, please stop referring to him as "a good player" because it is misleading. TIA.

[Phurfur 70]

 

I don't think you can hold it so much against him that he lost against the best teams they played. For as much as you want to label Notre Dame a "top program" they did not have good enough players outside of the QB position to hang with Michigan, USC, and LSU. Notre Dame's defense was pitiful this year and offensively their running game was not particularly strong either. The Irish gave up an average of 44 points in their 3 losses this year. Yes Quinn had the benefit of a great coach... that's a benefit that like I said will likely continue to serve him well early in his NFL career. Tom Brady hasn't forgotten everything Weis taught him (although he does miss Weis' play-calling).

 

 

I did not label ND a top program the media has. They were in the Top 10 most of the year and went to a BCS Bowl. Now if you are telling me it is onlybecause of Brady Quinn and the rest of the team sucksI may stand corrected. But right now I am not convinced of that.

[swamp dog 0]

We're talking about the Lions here. Everyones telling them to trade down. They ought to jump at a 1st round pick, a second round pick and a good player, Lions are weak at every position.

 

millen has actually down quite well when trading down--for all his other faults. so the argument "it's the lions we're talking about here" doesn't work.

 

you're willing to take a rape trade here--the lions being the ones getting raped.

 

 

 

That is the FANTASY pick value.

 

Link to the NFL pick value

 

2 = 2600

14 + 46 = 1540

14 + 46 + Gamble (assuming he's equal to 46) = 1980

 

 

someone who understands things. nice

[RLLD 3,545]

Detriot should be looking for every possible opportunity to trade out of that spot, there is nothing that special in this years draft that would warrant them keeping it.

 

They could fill perhaps 4 or 5 holes by trading out....

[Highway Robbery 0]

If Detroit traded down to #14 they may be out of position to draft a WR.

[swamp dog 0]

Detriot should be looking for every possible opportunity to trade out of that spot, there is nothing that special in this years draft that would warrant them keeping it.

 

They could fill perhaps 4 or 5 holes by trading out....

 

yes, they should trade down--but only if they get fair market value in doing so.

 

If Detroit traded down to #14 they may be out of position to draft a WR.

 

this would be a funny joke--if not for the fact wr is deep in day 1 of the draft. so they could trade down to 14 and still get a very good wr if they wanted

[Tusekan Raiders 0]

Detroit won't draft Brady and he probably won't fall to 14, but I don't think you'll need the number two pick to get him either.

 

Detroit should trade down for the right deal, but my guess is they stick and it is AZ who trades down for whoever wants Quinn.

[Foghorn Leghorn 0]

Detriot should be looking for every possible opportunity to trade out of that spot, there is nothing that special in this years draft that would warrant them keeping it.

 

They could fill perhaps 4 or 5 holes by trading out....

 

But if there's nothing special in this year's draft to warrant them keeping that pick, then why would another team give up enough to fill 4 or 5 holes to get into the same position?

[swamp dog 0]

But if there's nothing special in this year's draft to warrant them keeping that pick, then why would another team give up enough to fill 4 or 5 holes to get into the same position?

 

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. funny things happen when a team is on the clock and a team below that team suddenly realizes they're in love with a player.

[RLLD 3,545]

beauty is in the eye of the beholder. funny things happen when a team is on the clock and a team below that team suddenly realizes they're in love with a player.

 

Exactly.

 

Dangle it out there and see what nibbles, if you offer it they WILL come. Someone is bound to look at Brady, Peterson et al and see something much more than is actually there.