I think ultimate fighting will eventually run boxing into the ground

[Chronic Husker 85]

The whole allure of boxing over the past century has been that the world heavyweight champion has been known as the "toughest guy in the world".

 

Now that ultimate fighting is out there, can anyone really say that a Klitchko would take Lidell if they met in a dark alley?

 

I think not.

[parrot 789]

I think boxing has done a pretty fair job of running itself into the ground.

[Jeremy 0]

I see stuff on boxing on ESPN Classic once in a while. I wasn't even sure if it was still around.

[paulinstl 296]

The whole allure of boxing over the past century has been that the world heavyweight champion has been known as the "toughest guy in the world".

 

Now that ultimate fighting is out there, can anyone really say that a Klitchko would take Lidell if they met in a dark alley?

 

I think not.

 

I disagree with the notion that the heavyweight champ has been considered "the toughest guy in the world". As far as who wins a fight between any Klitchko and Lidell, any black belt in karate would kick both of their asses. Put them in a ring with real boxing rules any rated lightweight would kick Lidell's ass. Strategy and boxing skills would knock his ass out in one round.

[Mungwater 596]

Boxing ran itself into the group with all the pay per views. When I was a kid, I used to be able to tell you who the champ was, the next couple of contenders, all that. That was because the fights used to be on friday nights late on regualar TV, I haven't seen a fight in years.

[davebg 0]

Once Rocky had Paulie cut off his gloves he beat Thunderlips' ass.

 

I'm just sayin'.

[rallo 136]

Boxing ran itself into the group with all the pay per views. When I was a kid, I used to be able to tell you who the champ was, the next couple of contenders, all that. That was because the fights used to be on friday nights late on regualar TV, I haven't seen a fight in years.

 

this is true... i don't think i've ever truly seen a fight... i always see them advertised to be on pay per view, but i never find out the results... do they even report that shat on espn anymore?

[stosher1 0]

Up until very recently (say maybe 3 years ago), I was a huge boxing fan. I've gotten so tired of all the crap - between the different sactioning boards, the promoters, the paid-off judges..... I can't get into any longer. Also - as far as pure action - boxing can't hold a candle to UFC!

[rallo 136]

Up until very recently (say maybe 3 years ago), I was a huge boxing fan. I've gotten so tired of all the crap - between the different sactioning boards, the promoters, the paid-off judges..... I can't get into any longer. Also - as far as pure action - boxing can't hold a candle to UFC!

 

it's true... i mean in UFC people are ALWAYS bloody, half of the time they get their arm broke or something...

[GettnHuge 2]

boxing ran itself into the ground

 

the peeps who are becoming mma/ufc fans are wrastlin fans

[stosher1 0]

it's true... i mean in UFC people are ALWAYS bloody, half of the time they get their arm broke or something...

I haven't seen any broken arms - but plenty of noses!

 

When does the next UFC "Contender" thing start? That show cracks me up!

[Big_Pete 0]

I disagree with the notion that the heavyweight champ has been considered "the toughest guy in the world". As far as who wins a fight between any Klitchko and Lidell, any black belt in karate would kick both of their asses. Put them in a ring with real boxing rules any rated lightweight would kick Lidell's ass. Strategy and boxing skills would knock his ass out in one round.

 

It's funny, cause about 15 or so years ago, when Pete was big into boxing and getting trained in california, there was a middle weight boxer, who was friends with a blackbelt in who knows what form of karate, but the point of this all was to see who would win, so they fought... the boxer kicked the ever living sh1t out of the black belt. the black belt got some licks in, but once the boxer hit him a few good times, the black belt was finished... he couldn't take the punishment.

Once Rocky had Paulie cut off his gloves he beat Thunderlips' ass.

 

I'm just sayin'.

 

Up until very recently (say maybe 3 years ago), I was a huge boxing fan. I've gotten so tired of all the crap - between the different sactioning boards, the promoters, the paid-off judges..... I can't get into any longer. Also - as far as pure action - boxing can't hold a candle to UFC!

Pete thinks you mean PRIDE fighting, not UFC

[Chronic Husker 85]

I disagree with the notion that the heavyweight champ has been considered "the toughest guy in the world". As far as who wins a fight between any Klitchko and Lidell, any black belt in karate would kick both of their asses. Put them in a ring with real boxing rules any rated lightweight would kick Lidell's ass. Strategy and boxing skills would knock his ass out in one round.

 

Screw boxing rules. Lidell wins under fighting rules. Any karate black belt would get his ass whooped under UFC rules - the most liberal rules in the world. If Lidell got in a dark alley with a black belt, he'd whoop him.

[rallo 136]

I haven't seen any broken arms - but plenty of noses!

 

When does the next UFC "Contender" thing start? That show cracks me up!

 

i've seen(heard) a broken arm in person... i don't know if it was ufc or k1 or what, but it came to clear lake iowa

 

there was some guy from clear lake moving up in the ranks, and i don't remember his name, but he fought dan "the beast" severn (sp?)

 

and severn had him an arm submission hold, but the iowa guy wouldn't tap out, but then i heard a loud SNAP and all of a sudden the fight was over and they guy was holding his arm and it look a little deformed/limp. i didn't realize it til one of my friends told me "severn broke his fockin arm!"

[stosher1 0]

It's funny, cause about 15 or so years ago, when Pete was big into boxing and getting trained in california, there was a middle weight boxer, who was friends with a blackbelt in who knows what form of karate, but the point of this all was to see who would win, so they fought... the boxer kicked the ever living sh1t out of the black belt. the black belt got some licks in, but once the boxer hit him a few good times, the black belt was finished... he couldn't take the punishment.

 

Pete thinks you mean PRIDE fighting, not UFC

 

No - I mean UFC - you know, the Octagon. PRIDE is a regular boxing ring.

 

i've seen(heard) a broken arm in person... i don't know if it was ufc or k1 or what, but it came to clear lake iowa

 

there was some guy from clear lake moving up in the ranks, and i don't remember his name, but he fought dan "the beast" severn (sp?)

 

and severn had him an arm submission hold, but the iowa guy wouldn't tap out, but then i heard a loud SNAP and all of a sudden the fight was over and they guy was holding his arm and it look a little deformed/limp. i didn't realize it til one of my friends told me "severn broke his fockin arm!"

 

That must've been a while ago - Severn is retired. I haven't been to an event, but they recently had a UFC rip-off event at the new Sears Center in Hoffman Estates, IL featuring:

 

ALONZO SPELLMAN

[Voltaire 5,207]

I disagree with the notion that the heavyweight champ has been considered "the toughest guy in the world". As far as who wins a fight between any Klitchko and Lidell, any black belt in karate would kick both of their asses. Put them in a ring with real boxing rules any rated lightweight would kick Lidell's ass. Strategy and boxing skills would knock his ass out in one round.

 

I haven't been able to follow MMA/UFC since I've been overseas, but in the early days of UFC, the karate guys couldn't handle the jiujitsu and the wrestling guys. When I was home last summer, I saw Shamrock and Ortiz train teams and it looked like everybody was doing ground attacks (of course maybe that's more a reflection of the two trainers).

 

Seems to me that if karate blackbelts couldn't win before, they shouldn't be able to win now. Of course, they've had lots of time to refine their techniques to compete with jiujitsu and wresting. I'm sure they've learned some new tricks in the last ten years or so.

[davebg 0]

I haven't been able to follow MMA/UFC since I've been overseas, but in the early days of UFC, the karate guys couldn't handle the jiujitsu and the wrestling guys. When I was home last summer, I saw Shamrock and Ortiz train teams and it looked like everybody was doing ground attacks (of course maybe that's more a reflection of the two trainers).

 

Seems to me that if karate blackbelts couldn't win before, they shouldn't be able to win now. Of course, they've had lots of time to refine their techniques to compete with jiujitsu and wresting. I'm sure they've learned some new tricks in the last ten years or so.

Pretty much unless the karate guys get a quick knockout (not likely) they are screwed. As soon as the wrestling/jiujitsu guys get in close, take it to the ground and put on a submission hold it's OVAH.

 

I had read an article a few months back that started talking about how the league is going to have to address this, as the matches can lose quite a bit of the excitement that they've been known for w/all of these fights turning into wrestling matches.

[paulinstl 296]

 

Screw boxing rules. Lidell wins under fighting rules. Any karate black belt would get his ass whooped under UFC rules - the most liberal rules in the world. If Lidell got in a dark alley with a black belt, he'd whoop him.

 

 

Lidell is a bad sumb!tch for sure, but UFC is ridiculous. All they do is lay on each other. I'd rather watch paint dry.

[Big_Pete 0]

No - I mean UFC - you know, the Octagon. PRIDE is a regular boxing ring.

yeah, Pete knows that you meant UFC. It was just a funny way to say that PRIDE is infinatly better than UFC

[pt_mck 7]

Boxing will survive. MMA can survive. Two different sports. pt is a fan of both. No need to dis one or pick one over the other.

 

At it's peak boxing is bigger than mma will ever be. The heavyweight division is weak right now in boxing therefore the state of boxing is in a valley. There are still many talented fighters in the lower weight classes and many classic fights. Manny Paquiao is pt's fave. Randy Couture said the hardest discipline to learn and train in is boxing just because of the balance and timing required.

 

pt agrees with big_pete (pride fc > ufc) better depth of roster, Pride HW champ Fedor Emelianenko is the baddest man on the mma planet and they match their fighters up more frequently (grand prix) while UFC continually pushes chumps like chris leben and and ed herman ahead of established quality mma fighters like Nate Marquart and Dean Lister.

 

Karate guys have gotten their asses handed to them in mma events.

[Chronic Husker 85]

Lidell is a bad sumb!tch for sure, but UFC is ridiculous. All they do is lay on each other. I'd rather watch paint dry.

You may think it's boring, but it determines who is the better fighter out of two men to an extreme that boxing and karate (or any other martial art) never can.

[paulinstl 296]

You may think it's boring, but it determines who is the better fighter out of two men to an extreme that boxing and karate (or any other martial art) never can.

 

O.K. then, but it will never run boxing into the ground. Later this year there is a boxing match between Floyd Mayweather and Oscar De La Hoya that may set all-time PPV reords. It will get more press than 1000 UFC fights combined. Boxing is too ingrained into the fabric of American sports' psyche for it ever to just go away. The state of boxing right now isn't what it used to be, but that can change at any time. All it needs is another couple of capable and charismatic heavyweights and boxing will be back where it once was. Even if boxing never sees the likes of a Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield again, it still will continue to be a bigger sport than UFC ever will. Any sport fought in a steel cage = gay!

[dcOne 2]

Pretty much unless the karate guys get a quick knockout (not likely) they are screwed. As soon as the wrestling/jiujitsu guys get in close, take it to the ground and put on a submission hold it's OVAH.

 

I had read an article a few months back that started talking about how the league is going to have to address this, as the matches can lose quite a bit of the excitement that they've been known for w/all of these fights turning into wrestling matches.

 

 

Which to me, is BS! This its called MMA---MIXED Martial Arts. The fighters use what skills they have necessary.

 

It turns into a "wrestling match" because the wrestler has forced his will upon the other guy. The other guy has the option of not wresting. No one said its "wrestling". The other guy should punch or kick the wrestler before he takes it to the ground.

 

And if people don't like certain "styles" of fighting to be used, they can always watch boxing.

 

Here is a link to discussion about last nights match:

Wrestlers in MMA--Jay Obrien vs Herring

 

I happen to be posting as Fred Carsten.

 

You may think it's boring, but it determines who is the better fighter out of two men to an extreme that boxing and karate (or any other martial art) never can.

 

 

I agree with this statement.

 

But it will never run boxing "into the ground". Boxing will suffer a little, as time goes on. But the there will always be boxing purists.

[davebg 0]

Which to me, is BS! This its called MMA---MIXED Martial Arts. The fighters use what skills they have necessary.

 

It turns into a "wrestling match" because the wrestler has forced his will upon the other guy. The other guy has the option of not wresting. No one said its "wrestling". The other guy should punch or kick the wrestler before he takes it to the ground.

 

And if people don't like certain "styles" of fighting to be used, they can always watch boxing.

 

Here is a link to discussion about last nights match:

Wrestlers in MMA--Jay Obrien vs Herring

 

I happen to be posting as Fred Carsten.

The people who own/run the league are in the entertainment business. They want to make money and they will do whatever they think will sell more.

[Dr. Rosenpenis 0]

O.K. then, but it will never run boxing into the ground. Later this year there is a boxing match between Floyd Mayweather and Oscar De La Hoya that may set all-time PPV reords. It will get more press than 1000 UFC fights combined. Boxing is too ingrained into the fabric of American sports' psyche for it ever to just go away. The state of boxing right now isn't what it used to be, but that can change at any time. All it needs is another couple of capable and charismatic heavyweights and boxing will be back where it once was. Even if boxing never sees the likes of a Mike Tyson or Evander Holyfield again, it still will continue to be a bigger sport than UFC ever will. Any sport fought in a steel cage = gay!

 

Boxing may enjoy a resurgence in popularity with a couple legit heavyweights but it is never getting back to where it once was. The big three sports back in the day were boxing, horse racing and baseball. That's not happening again ever.

[paulinstl 296]

Boxing may enjoy a resurgence in popularity with a couple legit heavyweights but it is never getting back to where it once was. The big three sports back in the day were boxing, horse racing and baseball. That's not happening again ever.

 

I agree with you that boxing will never get back to where it was in the 30s, 40s and 50s, but it could easily get back to where it was in the 80s and 90s which would make UFC look like the red-headed stepchild it really is.

[zmanzzzz 1]

i prefer ufc.

[Rusty Syringes 478]

I agree.

 

When I was a kid, boxing seemed like such a big deal.

 

You don't have guys like Frazier, Ali, Foreman, Norton and those guys. Mike Tyson was the last exciting thing to come along in boxing, and now look at him. He destroyed his own legacy and brought the sport down.

 

Now, it's just a bunch of no-name bums, bullsh!t, confusion and greed.

 

I couldn't even tell you who the heavyweight champ is. How many heavyweight champs are there now?

 

I couldn't tell you that about the UFC, either, but I'd much rather watch a UFC fight.

 

I also predict that the Internet is going to take fighting in a different direction. Before professional boxing came along, fighters would travel from town to town and taken on whoever was willing to fight them.

 

The same thing is happening on the Internet now, with guys like Kimbo Slice, who are making a ton of money beating the shat out of dudes dumb enough to put up $10,000 to fight him.

 

His handlers pick and chose his bums, and then we get to see Slice, who has that old-school fisticuffs style of boxing, pulverize them.

 

Of course, at some point, someone is going to die, and there'll be all kinds of action taken on that.

 

But for now, the UFC and Internet fighting are the wave of the future.

[Jeb Bush 0]

 

That must've been a while ago - Severn is retired.

 

Severn is still fighting in the smaller shows, look him up on Sherdog's fight finder.

 

Boxing is absolutely awful now and has been for a long, long time. But, that can all change in 5 years if the right fighters come along. A sport like boxing is now doomed to ebb and flow with how popular the fighters are. MMA doesn't have that problem b/c they show 6-9 fights per ppv and that gives much more incentive to buy even if the main event doesn't interest.

 

I want MMA to become more popular here, b/c that will mean more $ for the fighters, more good gyms opening to train at, and more great matches to watch. But I simply do not trust the people who run the UFC to do that. As someone else said, I think they are infinitely more interested in creating a product they can mass market and get rich from. Pride has its shortcomings (and their first US show was awful) but they are the only chance of MMA getting really popular in a way that the purists will still enjoy.

[stosher1 0]

Severn is still fighting in the smaller shows, look him up on Sherdog's fight finder.

 

 

52 years old and he's still fighting! I was wondering why guys like Shamrock and Coture (now retired) were fighting in their early 40's and here's Severn still fightin' in his 50's!

[jerryskids 6,597]

Lots of good stuff here. My thoughts:

 

- As a taekwondo black belt, I assure you that Lidell or the Klitschkos would kick the ever living shiot out of me in about 10 seconds. The difference perhaps is that for most people, it would only take them 5 seconds. Those guys train all day every day, and have risen thru ranks proving they can actually knock people out. I break boards and do tag sparring. I get my bruises, but it is totally different.

 

- That being said, there is a resurgence of the striker in MMA, reference Fedor and Lidell. I've watched matches where the guys have stood there punching each other for 15 minutes. How can professional fighters not knock each other out in that amount of time? If Lidell hits you, you are out. He is very good at avoiding the takedown, not so much at ground fighting itself.

 

- I'd probably take Fedor over Klitschko in a street fight. But Fedor is a man among boys; in most cases, I'd take the top ranked boxer over a similar MMA person. The reason is that to date, the best of the best still are in the boxing path. That may change, and I think it is changing, but not today.

 

- Interestingly and relatedly, an article in the paper today described Michael Carabajal, one of our resident boxing thugs (Tyson lives here too), getting acquitted of assault. Apparently he punched some guy in the face three times, breaking his nose but causing little other damage. The defense showed the jury video of Carabajal's 1988 olympic match, and argued that if he had really wanted to hurt him, the guy would be dead or dying. The jury deliberated for 10 minutes and acquitted Carabajal (it was a felony charge I think).

[Frank M 181]

i've seen(heard) a broken arm in person... i don't know if it was ufc or k1 or what, but it came to clear lake iowa

 

there was some guy from clear lake moving up in the ranks, and i don't remember his name, but he fought dan "the beast" severn (sp?)

 

and severn had him an arm submission hold, but the iowa guy wouldn't tap out, but then i heard a loud SNAP and all of a sudden the fight was over and they guy was holding his arm and it look a little deformed/limp. i didn't realize it til one of my friends told me "severn broke his fockin arm!"

 

 

Here's a link for the not too faint of heart:

 

UFC-busted leg

[zmanzzzz 1]

severn is 50?

[stosher1 0]

severn is 50?

52 - born in 1954 - crazy mofo

[zmanzzzz 1]

that contender show sucks balls.

[wiffleball 4,788]

I think boxing has done a pretty fair job of running itself into the ground.

 

 

I was thinking the same thing. I've also had the same thought - that UF will basically replace boxing - if it hasn't already.

 

 

Boxing killed itself with all the corruption and nonsense. If any one man killed boxing, it's Don King. But, it also killed itself in that - especially in the heavier divisions - it's boring as all crap. Two overweight guys not nearly in shape to make it through a round - throw a few punches for about a minute, then clench for the rest of the round. It's not just bad sport - it's bad TV. Hell, Dancing with the Stars doesn't have as many clenches.

 

Granted, I think the part where guys in UF wear underwear and go 69 on each other is uber gay. ("He's trying to make him go submissive!" (Yeah,I bet he is) ) But as long as they're vertical, it's pretty decent.

 

ETA: I'm not so sure it might not take a big chunk of WWE too. Even the mouf-breaving trailer park crowd knows that shiit is fake - and would rather see guys beat each other up for real.