Post game show - how much credit can we give to God?

[RoadLizard 73]

Also, I don't appreciate Hollywood actors espousing their beliefs during award acceptance speeches either.

I wish everyone would just keep their beliefs to themselves and live and let live.

 

This would be great, but its not gonna happen. It *seems* that ONLY Christians take the "preaching" rap when they talk of their faith. If Dungy was Moslem and celebrated by blowing up the SB trophy in the name of Allah then it would have been treated as "tolerance". If he was Jewish or Buddhist and gave praise to whomever they care to call God then it would have been "tolerance".

 

Once again...my problem is more that only one religion gets shut down and removed from the public and it seems to be Christianity. And belive it or not, I am not even Christian.

[The Next Generation 11]

I'm personally thrilled everyone doesn't "keep their beliefs to themselves" like you said. I admire people of conviction and I'm thrilled to live in a country where I don't have to do this.

 

In a lot of countries, you do have to keep your beliefs to yourself. I thank God that we don't.

 

I should have reworded, thanks for taking what I wrote so literally. It's fine in the proper forum as I've written previously. Espouse religious beliefs in private, not public. I think you knew what I meant...

[Fumbleweed 555]

 

People do not have the same universal beliefs, thus expressing your subscription to a specific faith is exclusionary.

 

 

One more comment on this and I'm off.......

 

Scoot, do you realize what you're saying here? Exclusionary? What is this- Utopia....Neverland??

 

By this definition, everyone's getting constantly "excluded" all the time. I'm only allowed to speak on something if EVERYONE ELSE believes the same thing????

 

I find your rationale bizarre. I don't want to attack you personally in any way. But, your rationale really does throw me for a double loop here......

[Sho Nuff 720]

I should have reworded, thanks for taking what I wrote so literally. It's fine in the proper forum as I've written previously. Espouse religious beliefs in private, not public. I think you knew what I meant...

 

I think the way you worded it here I still do not agree with.

 

The 1st amendment guarantees us the right to espouse my beliefs in public.

You have the right to not tune in and listen.

[football_scooter 0]

I've argued with you before and I know it's not something I want to do again. I disagree with you here on so many levels it makes my head spin.....

 

wow - and here I responded totally civilly to you Fumbles.

 

This reads as a giant cop-out. Why do I bother to make good points when you just write them off with a one-liner like this? What exactly do you disagree with "on so many levels"? That I was wrong to feel excluded? Please elaborate - I'm fascinated by your response to my well thought-out post to you, and extremely disappointed that you once again elude to shutting down the topic.

 

Seems like you might be letting your beliefs effect your moderation...why "shut it down"? Wouldn't the topic just get moved to the geek forum like any other?

[Fumbleweed 555]

I should have reworded, thanks for taking what I wrote so literally. It's fine in the proper forum as I've written previously. Espouse religious beliefs in private, not public. I think you knew what I meant...

 

Again, the fact that we can speak our minds in "public" is one of the wonderful things about this country, IMO.

[nobody 2,883]

I admire people of conviction.

 

I used to think this way, too, but then I realized I'm alot smarter than most people, so their convictions mean nothing to me.

[Fumbleweed 555]

wow - and here I responded totally civilly to you Fumbles.

 

This reads as a giant cop-out. Why do I bother to make good points when you just write them off with a one-liner like this? What exactly do you disagree with "on so many levels"? That I was wrong to feel excluded? Please elaborate - I'm fascinated by your response to my well thought-out post to you, and extremely disappointed that you once again elude to shutting down the topic.

 

Seems like you might be letting your beliefs effect your moderation...why "shut it down"? Wouldn't the topic just get moved to the geek forum like any other?

 

This is the very first time I mentioned shutting it down....somebody else may have mentioned it before.

 

I'm not getting into it with you, Scoot......I just won't. I can accept whatever that reality makes you think of me. I'm sorry.

[Gepetto 1,454]

No, freedom to and freedom from are two entirely separate, and somewhat opposed, concepts. That San Francisco living is starting to turn your brain to mush, my friend. The very beginning of freedom from is force against others - in this case, forcing other people to STFU because you are too insecure in your own beliefs to handle hearing someone else's. Besides, I doubt you would agree to any new rules or laws that limit your own self expression, so please can the "freedom for me but not for thee" junk. If you want to get all philosophical, I could probably prove to everyone's satisfaction save your own that "freedom from" is a null concept.

 

You are perfectly free to say whatever you believe. I will do the same. I for one am secure enough in my faith that I can handle it when others have different ideas on the topic.

 

If you would like some consideration from others to protect your sensitivity, you could encourage this if you started showing it to others.

 

And now is as good a time as any to declare:

 

IBTL

 

Well put.

[Grind 0]

More personal attacks...7th grade females, eh? Insults are a tool of the ignorant, friend. They certainly don't aid you in making your point.

 

As for that vague attempt at a point, apples, meet oranges.

 

If you're seriously attempting to make an analogy between someone preaching thier religion and someone preaching the benefits of hard work, then you really are reaching.

 

People universally work. Some harder than others. No one will be offended by someone working harder than they do.

 

People do not have the same universal beliefs, thus expressing your subscription to a specific faith is exclusionary.

 

Do I really need to spell that out for you?

 

The 7th grade female comment is not a personal attack.

 

Apparently you are missing the point I'm making. Are you attempting to catagorize individual beliefs. Labeling one belief above another belief? That is very hard to do consider they are individual beliefs (individual emphasized). Unless you are every individual, how can you rank each belief?

 

My point is that a belief in God, Jesus, religion etc. is just that...an individual belief. Some share that belief, some do not. Another individual belief, as used in my example, is that hard work leads to positive outcomes, self prosperity or even self confidence. That is an individual belief. Some share that belief, some do not. So now you are telling me as an individual that I am comparing apples to oranges. The bottom line is that this topic is based on an individual expressing an individual belief. When you break it down, most conversations include such beliefs in some form.

[football_scooter 0]

One more comment on this and I'm off.......

 

Scoot, do you realize what you're saying here? Exclusionary? What is this- Utopia....Neverland??

 

By this definition, everyone's getting constantly "excluded" all the time. I'm only allowed to speak on something if EVERYONE ELSE believes the same thing????

 

I find your rationale bizarre. I don't want to attack you personally in any way. But, your rationale really does throw me for a double loop here......

 

Taking it out of context I can see how that would be confusing for you.

 

Let me clarify again then: it's all about the forum.

 

If it was anywhere but the post-game show of the Superbowl, I wouldn't take issue with Dungy pushing a Christain agenda. Which he clearly did. Otherwise why go to the length he did. Others have commented on this as well, so no use or sense denying this.

 

And if he just said, "God" that's fine too.

 

It's exclusionary the moment he refers to his specific faith and the role he believes it had. The message was fine. It's the forum in which he expressed it that I am taking issue with.

 

Once again, so it doesn't get missed for a 73rd time by those of the Christain faith defending it: The message was fine. It's the forum in which he expressed it that I am taking issue with.

 

I can understand how those of Dungy's religious background would not have a problem with it and may have a difficult time understanding those of us who do - it's not surprising at all. But perhaps if you step outside yourself, you might begin to see how those of us who aren't of that faith might take exception to it.

 

I would bet anything that if Dungy came out and said, "I believe my Muslim faith guided me to this great victory - prased be to Allah" that the nation would be in uproar. And I bet most of the Christains posting in here would take exception to it.

[Sho Nuff 720]

He expressed that the reason he won the Superbowl was because of his Christain faith - that he was proud to have done it the Christain way.

 

That you cannot see how this could be offensive and that it is obviously exclusionary is laughable.

 

And even moreso that it is somehow my fault if something said in the name of your religion is deemed to be in an inappropriate forum, and thus is offensive to me.

 

Maybe the Crusades were the fault of the Turks and Arabs because they were offended that Christains would want to convert them?

 

And of course the pro-choice people are at fault for not wanting to be mercilously harassed, picketed, or physically attacked up by Christains at the abortion clinics? After all - that's just Christains expressing their beliefs, eh?

Comedy.

 

No...he did not express that it was because of his Christian faith. But that he was proud to have done it the Christian way.

Did he say there was no other way to do it?

 

How does him professing that his faith gave him the strength to do things in his life exclude you? Why can you not answer that question.

 

No...it is your fault if you are offended by others expressing their beliefs. It was deemed inappropriate by you...do I have to run things by you as to where the proper forum is..in your opinion?

 

Ahh the Crusades...way to compare a coach professing his belief in God and not saying a word about others should believe that way....nice one.

 

 

Way to dive off the deep end.

[football_scooter 0]

I'm not getting into it with you, Scoot......I just won't. I can accept whatever that reality makes you think of me. I'm sorry.

 

Uh, I think you're A-Ok fumbles...why would you even take this to a personal level? I have no issues with you personally. Not sure why this was even posted by you.

[phillybear 366]

I would just like to add my usual opinion to these proceedings...

 

BAN SCIENCE!!!!

[Voice_Of_Reason 0]

I fully expected this reaction from Christians

Here's what I think as a Christian man. This society has become waaaaay toooo sensitive. You offended me this and you offended me that. Whatever happened to sticks and stones...but words will never hurt me?

 

When did we give control to others to effect our thought process?

 

When you let someone else's words effect you, you give them control over you. When you allow them to say what they want without it changing your view, you have retained control over yourself.

 

I think our society has lost grip with what is really important. We are too busy trying not to offend anyone. Trying too hard to make sure everyone feels good about themselves.

 

I was always taught..."Life isn't fair...get used to it."

[Grind 0]

More personal attacks...7th grade females, eh? Insults are a tool of the ignorant, friend. They certainly don't aid you in making your point.

 

As for that vague attempt at a point, apples, meet oranges.

 

If you're seriously attempting to make an analogy between someone preaching thier religion and someone preaching the benefits of hard work, then you really are reaching.

 

People universally work. Some harder than others. No one will be offended by someone working harder than they do.

 

People do not have the same universal beliefs, thus expressing your subscription to a specific faith is exclusionary.

 

Do I really need to spell that out for you?

 

 

To quote you, "No one will be offended by someone working harder then they do". How can you say "No one" This I beleive is the basic issue I have with this topic. How can you speak for everyone? I'm not nieve enough (not a personal attack on you) to think that "No one" will be offended by someone working harder then they do. We are all individuals and as individuals have beliefs. Making a statement as to MY belief as an individual is just that...a statement about ME. Nothing I heard last night was anything other then a statement of one's individual belief. To take it as anything other then that seems odd to me.

[football_scooter 0]

No...he did not express that it was because of his Christian faith. But that he was proud to have done it the Christian way.

Did he say there was no other way to do it?

 

That is precisely what is implied. Otherwise why even mention the Christain way?

 

How does him professing that his faith gave him the strength to do things in his life exclude you? Why can you not answer that question.

He didn't profess that. He said that his team did it in the Christain way. That is exclusionary because he was specific. If you bothered to read my posts, you'd see that several times I've stated that had he thanked/credited God in general, I'd have had no issues with it.

 

No...it is your fault if you are offended by others expressing their beliefs. It was deemed inappropriate by you...do I have to run things by you as to where the proper forum is..in your opinion?

 

In the example of Dungy, the forum and appropriateness was obvious to anyone with a brain. It was a sporting event, not a religious event. Bringing religion into it tainted it for everyone in the name of his selfishness to push his agenda and beliefs onto others.

 

Ahh the Crusades...way to compare a coach professing his belief in God and not saying a word about others should believe that way....nice one.

 

 

Way to dive off the deep end.

Way to avoid the analogy to good Christains harassing pregnant women at abortion clinics. Are they not doing exactly the same thing that Dungy was doing? Expressing their religious beliefs in an inappropriate forum? Could those women not be offended by this, or is that also "their fault"? Do they not also have the right to not listen, or do you agree that this could be considered offensive?

 

pwnd.

[The Next Generation 11]

Again, the fact that we can speak our minds in "public" is one of the wonderful things about this country, IMO.

 

I hear you and I wholeheartedly encourage discussion and welcome diversity of all kinds. If the public forum was created for that purpose, I agree 100%. I just don't like tuning into a football game and getting hit on the head with religion. Much like I don't like tuning into an awards show and getting hit on the head with liberal PC BS.

 

There is a time and a place for everything, and we just disagree that a SB postgame show is the right time to force your religious beliefs on a captive audience.

 

However, I think we may agree that an awards show is not the right time to espouse PC liberalisms.

[football_scooter 0]

Here's what I think as a Christian man. This society has become waaaaay toooo sensitive. You offended me this and you offended me that. Whatever happened to sticks and stones...but words will never hurt me?

 

When did we give control to others to effect our thought process?

 

When you let someone else's words effect you, you give them control over you. When you allow them to say what they want without it changing your view, you have retained control over yourself.

 

I think our society has lost grip with what is really important. We are too busy trying not to offend anyone. Trying too hard to make sure everyone feels good about themselves.

 

I was always taught..."Life isn't fair...get used to it."

 

Actually I agree 100%. For the 50th time, I am not offended by this in the slightest - people projecting that I am personally offended is merely a tool for them to marginalize my opinion.

 

But then there's the matter of my finding something inappropriate - that's really what's at hand.

 

I am well within reason to say that I found Dungy's Christianity reference to be inappropriate for the forum he was in. And really that's all I've done. The ensuing debate is evidence of how far some will go to defend their own. Yes, a generalization - but read through the topic and it's obvious.

[Grind 0]

Taking it out of context I can see how that would be confusing for you.

 

Let me clarify again then: it's all about the forum.

 

If it was anywhere but the post-game show of the Superbowl, I wouldn't take issue with Dungy pushing a Christain agenda. Which he clearly did. Otherwise why go to the length he did. Others have commented on this as well, so no use or sense denying this.

 

And if he just said, "God" that's fine too.

 

It's exclusionary the moment he refers to his specific faith and the role he believes it had. The message was fine. It's the forum in which he expressed it that I am taking issue with.

 

Once again, so it doesn't get missed for a 73rd time by those of the Christain faith defending it: The message was fine. It's the forum in which he expressed it that I am taking issue with.

 

I can understand how those of Dungy's religious background would not have a problem with it and may have a difficult time understanding those of us who do - it's not surprising at all. But perhaps if you step outside yourself, you might begin to see how those of us who aren't of that faith might take exception to it.

 

I would bet anything that if Dungy came out and said, "I believe my Muslim faith guided me to this great victory - prased be to Allah" that the nation would be in uproar. And I bet most of the Christains posting in here would take exception to it.

 

 

So what is the correct or acceptable forum? Point is, if he had went out of his way to denounce God and religion in this post-game speech, I wouldn't think that was wrong. It is his right. Would I agree with him, nope. I might even chuckle a bit. Maybe I would have been shocked. Who knows. Fact is, he's expressing himself and his beliefs as to what he felt contributed to his success. It's all about Tony Dungy at that point.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

1. just because people abuse their public forum to press their own agenda all the time doesn't make it any less inappropriate each time that they do.

 

You're attempting to argue that "2 wrongs make a right" - ask your, or anyone's mom about that one sometime...I'm sure she can clarify it for you.

Once again you obviously failed to read what I've written prior to responding, or simply enjoy assuming things which I've already countered. Becaue AS STATED, I am not that offended by it. I am far more offended by people like you claiming that I am offended by it in attempt to marginalize me and belittle my opinions.

 

1. I'm not arguing 2 wrongs make a right, I'm saying who cares? It may not be appropriate whenever it's done and to whomever it's done but it really doesn't bother me most times.

 

2. You argued like this I believe last off-season as well and it got pretty ugly then too. Maybe you're mad because there's no more football for the year. So what you're saying is you are not offended by feeling excluded according to what Dungy said but I'm somehow marginalizing you by telling you to suck it up? Well suck it up. I would probably be saying the same thing if someone took offense to Dungy, openly stating he's an atheist and he did everything in his life by himself with no help. As I've stated all along, who really cares? The only thing that mattered to me was the game so, when it was done, I changed the channel.

[football_scooter 0]

I hear you and I wholeheartedly encourage discussion and welcome diversity of all kinds. If the public forum was created for that purpose, I agree 100%. I just don't like tuning into a football game and getting hit on the head with religion. Much like I don't like tuning into an awards show and getting hit on the head with liberal PC BS.

 

There is a time and a place for everything, and we just disagree that a SB postgame show is the right time to force your religious beliefs on a captive audience.

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

That is precisely what is implied. Otherwise why even mention the Christain way?

He didn't prefess that. He said that his team did it in the Christain way. That is exclusionary because he was specific. If you bothered to read my posts, you'd see that several times I've stated that had he thanked/credited God in general, I'd have had no issues with it.

In the example of Dungy, the forum and appropriateness was obvious to anyone with a brain. It was a sporting event, not a religious event. Bringing religion into it tainted it for everyone in the name of his selfishness to push his agenda and beliefs onto others.

Way to avoid the analogy to good Christains harassing pregnant women at abortion clinics. Are they not doing exactly the same thing that Dungy was doing? Expressing their religious beliefs in an inappropriate forum? Could those women not be offended by this, or is that also "their fault"?

 

pwnd.

 

I did not take it that he was saying it was the only way...just that it was his way. That is your opinion and you are entitled to it as much as he was entitled to voice his last night.

 

Saying his team did it that way is not excluding you...despite what you read into it...it is not saying it is the only way for things to be done in that league...just that it was his way and that team's way and he was proud of it.

 

It was a sporting event...is there a rule list somewhere that God cannot be mentioned? That a man cannot profess his faith in that forum.

 

You have deemed it inappropriate...last time I checked you were not the end all, be all moderator of what is and is not appropriate.

 

I avoided the analogy because like the Crusades it had nothing to do with what Dungy said. It was just a rant against Christians.

 

And no, I don't believe what those Christians do in harassing people is a good thing. I have no problem with people doing it as they do in front of my Church and professing their beliefs. You will not see me out there though as I am not a pro-life fanatic. I wish there was not a need in this world for abortion but do not want my government controlling that.

 

pwned? Hah!!!! you are delusional.

[football_scooter 0]

So what is the correct or acceptable forum?

 

Gee, I dunno - probably ANYWHERE but the Superbowl trophy ceremony, eh? <= me laughing at the obviousness of the question/answer.

 

Point is, if he had went out of his way to denounce God and religion in this post-game speech, I wouldn't think that was wrong. It is his right. Would I agree with him, nope. I might even chuckle a bit. Maybe I would have been shocked. Who knows. Fact is, he's expressing himself and his beliefs as to what he felt contributed to his success. It's all about Tony Dungy at that point.

 

Here's a thought - how about if he didn't go out of his way to either extreme? Then no one would be bothered by it either way. Politics & religion had no place on that podium. That's the point you seem to be missing. Perhaps deliberately so.

[Grind 0]

I hear you and I wholeheartedly encourage discussion and welcome diversity of all kinds. If the public forum was created for that purpose, I agree 100%. I just don't like tuning into a football game and getting hit on the head with religion. Much like I don't like tuning into an awards show and getting hit on the head with liberal PC BS.

 

There is a time and a place for everything, and we just disagree that a SB postgame show is the right time to force your religious beliefs on a captive audience.

 

However, I think we may agree that an awards show is not the right time to espouse PC liberalisms.

 

Call me dumb, but I just can't rationally compare the expressing of an individual belief to forcing religious beliefs on a captive audience. I just don't relate the two. "Forcing" or "force" is just a strong word in comparison to Dungy's statement(s), in my opinion. If someone tells me that eating broccoli when they were a child led to their success, I don't think he forced his opinion on me. Obviously that person believes that eating broccoli had a direct impact on their future success. That is what he beleives. Him telling me that is not forcing anything on me. I personally probably wouldn't think broccoli had any relation to future success, but hey. That would just be my beleif or opinion.

[football_scooter 0]

Saying his team did it that way is not excluding you...despite what you read into it...it is not saying it is the only way for things to be done in that league...just that it was his way and that team's way and he was proud of it.

 

Why even say it? It's the Superbowl, in front of an international audience? You don't think there was any agenda to that at all? Wow - that's pretty innocent or niave of you. One of the two.

 

It was a sporting event...is there a rule list somewhere that God cannot be mentioned? That a man cannot profess his faith in that forum.

It's not a rule - it's just common sense.

 

You have deemed it inappropriate...last time I checked you were not the end all, be all moderator of what is and is not appropriate.

I thought I had the right to my opinion - you just said I did. or do I only have that right when I'm not in disagreement?

 

I avoided the analogy because like the Crusades it had nothing to do with what Dungy said. It was just a rant against Christians. And no, I don't believe what those Christians do in harassing people is a good thing. I have no problem with people doing it as they do in front of my Church and professing their beliefs. You will not see me out there though as I am not a pro-life fanatic. I wish there was not a need in this world for abortion but do not want my government controlling that.

 

It's a perfect analogy not to what Dungy said, but to HOW YOU DEFENDED DUNGY. You said that people should be allowed to preach their beliefs at any time. That it's the listener's fault if they are offended because they can "change the channel". Basically saying that Dungy was 100% fine with using the Superbowl as a forum to press his Christain agenda. You did say that - do I need to quote it again?

 

So by that logic, those christains who harass women at abortion clinics while quoting scriptures to them are also 100% appropriate, because they're just doing what Dungy is doing. And if those harassed women are offended by that, it's their fault because they could just tune it all out.

 

I am by no means saying that to be hateful towards Christains - please. I love Christains. my current g/f is catholic and my housemate in college was a religious studies major. I'm not even very religious, so none of it really bothers me...No, I am saying it because it's a perfect analogy and used to support my contention that Dungy was in an inappropriate forum to press his Christain beliefs onto others.

 

and far from being extremist, it's spot on.

[VaTerp 0]

I cant understand why so many people are SO BOTHERED by Dungy and Irsay praising God. How has it affected anyone negatively? Please explain.

 

1. It is their forum. You are the one tuning in at YOUR OWN CHOICE to watch them talk about THEIR accomplishment. If they believe that God and their faith in him helped them achieve something then they are well within their rights to express it when someone gives them a microphone in the moments afterwards.

 

2. WHy are people on here so consumed with and beeotching about stuff? 3 pages of this b/c scooter wants to whine about what amounts to a minute or so of airtime about something he didnt want to hear. Boo hoo. Lets get an early jump on next FF season or something besides all this !

[Fumbleweed 555]

Uh, I think you're A-Ok fumbles...why would you even take this to a personal level? I have no issues with you personally. Not sure why this was even posted by you.

 

You took it to a personal level when you stated I was basically chickening out of a discussion and then proceeded to question my ability to rationally moderate. I'll point it out to you if you'd like. Doesn't matter much now. The tone of this thread has remained fairly civil since I last checked in. Here's where I took things beginning to turn personal:

 

"wow - and here I responded totally civilly to you Fumbles.

 

This reads as a giant cop-out. Why do I bother to make good points when you just write them off with a one-liner like this? What exactly do you disagree with "on so many levels"? That I was wrong to feel excluded? Please elaborate - I'm fascinated by your response to my well thought-out post to you, and extremely disappointed that you once again elude to shutting down the topic.

 

Seems like you might be letting your beliefs effect your moderation...why "shut it down"? Wouldn't the topic just get moved to the geek forum like any other?"

 

I guess your word was copping out. No biggie. I just wanted you to understand I wasn't coming ouf of left field. It doesn't matter. I'm not upset.

[Gepetto 1,454]

Football Scooter, "what you've just '(in this entire thread)' said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this 'forum' is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul. "

 

credit: Billy Madison, the movie

[Fumbleweed 555]

Taking it out of context I can see how that would be confusing for you.

 

Let me clarify again then: it's all about the forum.

 

If it was anywhere but the post-game show of the Superbowl, I wouldn't take issue with Dungy pushing a Christain agenda. Which he clearly did. Otherwise why go to the length he did. Others have commented on this as well, so no use or sense denying this.

 

And if he just said, "God" that's fine too.

 

It's exclusionary the moment he refers to his specific faith and the role he believes it had. The message was fine. It's the forum in which he expressed it that I am taking issue with.

 

Once again, so it doesn't get missed for a 73rd time by those of the Christain faith defending it: The message was fine. It's the forum in which he expressed it that I am taking issue with.

 

I can understand how those of Dungy's religious background would not have a problem with it and may have a difficult time understanding those of us who do - it's not surprising at all. But perhaps if you step outside yourself, you might begin to see how those of us who aren't of that faith might take exception to it.

 

I would bet anything that if Dungy came out and said, "I believe my Muslim faith guided me to this great victory - prased be to Allah" that the nation would be in uproar. And I bet most of the Christains posting in here would take exception to it.

 

This wasn't a public forum. It was Tony's forum. He just guided his team to a Super Bowl victory a year after his son tragically committed suicide. The reporter stuck the microphone in his face and granted him the respect due to say whatever the heck he wanted to. And, you're dead wrong about the Allah comment. If he had chosen to use the forum to praise Allah, I would be 100% in support of that. Doesn't mean I would go praise Allah. Point is....he earned the right to that forum. It was his moment. He should get to use it for whatever he wanted to. It's wasn't my moment or yours...it was his.

[football_scooter 0]

I guess your word was copping out. No biggie. I just wanted you to understand I wasn't coming ouf of left field. It doesn't matter. I'm not upset.

 

Gotcha - sorry for that impression - when you avoided my questions and suggested that the topic might get locked that seemed like the logical conclusion.

 

My bad if I misunderstood.

[Fumbleweed 555]

Now, if Tony grabbed the microphone out of someone's hand and exclaimed "Praise Jesus my Lord and My God", I guess that would be one thing- still free speech, but definitely pushy. As is, he was on the podium in a great moment for him and the microphone was his because it was given to him. To use an old expression, he "had the floor". At that point, he could have made any acknowledgement that he wanted to and I would be o.k. with it. He could have acknowledged Satan for that matter and while I might have thought him misguided for doing so, it would have been o.k. It was his moment.

[football_scooter 0]

This wasn't a public forum. It was Tony's forum. He just guided his team to a Super Bowl victory a year after his son tragically committed suicide. The reporter stuck the microphone in his face and granted him the respect due to say whatever the heck he wanted to. And, you're dead wrong about the Allah comment. If he had chosen to use the forum to praise Allah, I would be 100% in support of that. Doesn't mean I would go praise Allah. Point is....he earned the right to that forum. It was his moment. He should get to use it for whatever he wanted to. It's wasn't my moment or yours...it was his.

Correction: it was not his forum. it was the NFL's forum. He took the spotlight in that forum, but the forum was a sporting event.

 

And last I checked, sporting events don't have a religious bias towards any faith.

 

Therefore I continue to believe Dungy was out of line by taking it there, to the extreme that he did.

 

What's been really fascinating about it is that my expressing that has caused this much uproar...why would Christains be so extremely defensive about it? I've been insulted, attacked, called names, and it's been projected that I'm "offended" by it when none of that was appropriate or deserved.

 

I suppose I could turn it around and say, "Sorry if my saying that I thought Dungy was out of line offended you all...it's just my faith."

 

I actually really like Dungy - I think he's an ok guy. But when he chose to use his moment in the spotlight to press a Christain agenda, I chose to post my feelings about it. And that feeling is that he was in an inappropriate forum for it.

 

The reaction to my opinion of Christains telling me I can just "not listen" is somewhat ignorant and wholly intollerant. Why should I be subjected to one word about someone else's religion when I tune into a sporting event? Answer: I shouldn't.

 

Sorry if you can't understand that - chalk it up to being biased Christains who cannot step outside yourselves and imagine that you aren't in the majority. I guess it's the same reason white people couldn't figure out why seperate but equal wasn't cool with free blacks, eh? I mean, they had their own water fountains, after all. Why would they need to drink out of the whites only ones? Sometimes when you're in the majority you cannot understand the feelings of those outside of it. As a non-Christian, I see, feel, experience things differently than Christains. As such I do not expect Christains to understand why a non-Christain would feel excluded. But it doesn't change the fact that we do, nor does it make it "our fault" for feeling that way.

 

Now, if Tony grabbed the microphone out of someone's hand and exclaimed "Praise Jesus my Lord and My God", I guess that would be one thing- still free speech, but definitely pushy. As is, he was on the podium in a great moment for him and the microphone was his because it was given to him. To use an old expression, he "had the floor". At that point, he could have made any acknowledgement that he wanted to and I would be o.k. with it. He could have acknowledged Satan for that matter and while I might have thought him misguided for doing so, it would have been o.k. It was his moment.

 

Actually I agree with this about 99% (that 01% being that I think he should have left religion out of it entirely of course)

 

Well said though - thanks for the clarification.

[Fumbleweed 555]

We disagree, but that's o.k. Thanks for keeping it on a basically good civility level.

[football_scooter 0]

We disagree, but that's o.k. Thanks for keeping it on a basically good civility level.

it's taking great efforts and many deep breaths, but I am indeed doing my best.

[jocstrap 8]

I've been thinking about this one a little longer today. The end of a game, a superbowl champion, the excitement level out the roof, and 1 billion people watching. I presume half the audience was not christian or pretty close to that. These guys are well aware of the diversity of the crowd. I do believe they spent too much time in their short interview on religious thanks.

 

Thank you lord almighty for the opportunity to be here (that's it stop).Thank you to the fans and spectators for their support of professional football making it the #1 viewed sporting event yearly, regardless of religion. Thank you to the city of Miami and all that made this event possible.....and so on.

 

This was a joyous moment where the spectators were waiting to bust out of their seats. Give us something to be pumped about - let it all out. Instead, we caught a thank you lord prayer. Dungy and owner should have played the masses better is all I'm saying.

 

I am Methodist, but also a football fan!

[swamp dog 0]

why does the baby jesus hate the lions?

[Raider 84 29]

Praise God and give him the glory for without his help in life we would have nothing.

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

Why even say it? It's the Superbowl, in front of an international audience? You don't think there was any agenda to that at all? Wow - that's pretty innocent or niave of you. One of the two.

 

Because it is his belief and his right to say.

No, I did not think he had any agenda other than to state how he felt at the time. Call it innocent and naive but what are you basing your opinion on?

 

And this coming from the guy whining about personal attacks...perhaps yours were a bit nicer...but yes...it is a personal attack.

 

 

It's not a rule - it's just common sense.

 

Not at all, its your sense...which is hardly common.

 

I thought I had the right to my opinion - you just said I did. or do I only have that right when I'm not in disagreement?

 

Umm, I never denied your right to have the opinion...but I am of the opinion that your thoughts on where it is appropriate to profess your faith is of the least bit of importance to anyone...especially Tony Dungy.

 

It's a perfect analogy not to what Dungy said, but to HOW YOU DEFENDED DUNGY. You said that people should be allowed to preach their beliefs at any time. That it's the listener's fault if they are offended because they can "change the channel". Basically saying that Dungy was 100% fine with using the Superbowl as a forum to press his Christain agenda. You did say that - do I need to quote it again?

 

Perfect analogy? Is Dungy going anywhere and denouncing other people's actions or beliefs? Is he being confrontational or threatening violence in any way?

I think it was perfectly fine that he professed his faith. I do not think he was pressing any agenda.

 

You can quote what I actually said...rather than your faulty spin of things.

 

So by that logic, those christains who harass women at abortion clinics while quoting scriptures to them are also 100% appropriate, because they're just doing what Dungy is doing. And if those harassed women are offended by that, it's their fault because they could just tune it all out.

 

Dungy harassed nobody...Dungy threatened nobody...Dungy did not criticize other's beliefs or actions.

 

Your comparison and logic is faulty.

 

 

I am by no means saying that to be hateful towards Christains - please. I love Christains. my current g/f is catholic and my housemate in college was a religious studies major. I'm not even very religious, so none of it really bothers me...No, I am saying it because it's a perfect analogy and used to support my contention that Dungy was in an inappropriate forum to press his Christain beliefs onto others.

 

and far from being extremist, it's spot on.

 

No...its spot on, in your opinion. Which in this case I cannot disagree with more. You have taken to extreme comparisons that simply are not valid.

Perfect analogy?

 

How is comparing a guy thanking God for giving him the abilities to do what he did...for saying he was proud that he and Lovie both did it the Christian way....how is that the same as a history of violence based on beliefs or the harassment and threatening of women going to get an abortion?

 

Seriously...are you that far out there that you think those things are the same?

 

why does the baby jesus hate the lions?

 

Because they suck?

And keep drafting players to whom he gave very little talent and NFL skills?

[swamp dog 0]

Because it is his belief and his right to say.

No, I did not think he had any agenda other than to state how he felt at the time. Call it innocent and naive but what are you basing your opinion on?

 

And this coming from the guy whining about personal attacks...perhaps yours were a bit nicer...but yes...it is a personal attack.

Not at all, its your sense...which is hardly common.

Umm, I never denied your right to have the opinion...but I am of the opinion that your thoughts on where it is appropriate to profess your faith is of the least bit of importance to anyone...especially Tony Dungy.

Perfect analogy? Is Dungy going anywhere and denouncing other people's actions or beliefs? Is he being confrontational or threatening violence in any way?

I think it was perfectly fine that he professed his faith. I do not think he was pressing any agenda.

 

You can quote what I actually said...rather than your faulty spin of things.

Dungy harassed nobody...Dungy threatened nobody...Dungy did not criticize other's beliefs or actions.

 

Your comparison and logic is faulty.

No...its spot on, in your opinion. Which in this case I cannot disagree with more. You have taken to extreme comparisons that simply are not valid.

Perfect analogy?

 

How is comparing a guy thanking God for giving him the abilities to do what he did...for saying he was proud that he and Lovie both did it the Christian way....how is that the same as a history of violence based on beliefs or the harassment and threatening of women going to get an abortion?

 

Seriously...are you that far out there that you think those things are the same?

Because they suck?

And keep drafting players to whom he gave very little talent and NFL skills?

 

but baby jesus always roots for the underdog: moses, the jews...why not the lions?