Is the Pats credibility & accomplishments tarnished?

[RoadLizard 73]

With this Rams SB issue coming up and congressional involvement you have to wonder just how much the Pats benefitted from shaky methods and outright cheating. I mean.... its the old saying that just because you got caught once doesnt mean you only did it once. Chances are they have been focking around with the "system" for many years and are just now being caled out on it. The Rams issue makes sense, the Pats had NO business winning that game, especially by shutting down the best offense ever seen to that point. It just reeks of BS. Then, you have wins against other AFC teams in playoff games that dont add up, the Eagles SB win, even the Carolina SB win. All by 3 points, all have to be questioned. Plus, by only winning by three points it makes it even more important to get to the bottom of it all since a little cheating could have been worth three points. Its not like the Pats just blew everyone out and cheating wouldnt have mattered. A tainted legacy? maybe not fully yet, but the talk at the water cooler is definitely leaning this way. It just feels wrong.....

 

So, lets see what develops over the next few months but I will say their little smoke and mirror show over the last 7-8 years has to be put right next to the Barry Bonds stuff as far as being HIGHLY questionable. Their so called "Dynasty" which Chowds grasp tighter than a pen!s during a good jerk-off session is crumbling at the base..... sorry but thats the way it is.

 

Ya know????

[donkeyboy22 0]

I agree

[Jeremy 0]

So, lets what develops over the next few months...

 

I'm still waiting to see what comes of the latest before I make any more judgements. Already their legacy has been tainted somewhat with the spygate scandel. Since all 3 of those Superbowls were very close, it's not a stretch to wonder if those tapes might have affected the outcome of one or more of those games. If this latest allegation of taping the Rams walkthrough proves to be true, that pretty much erases that title in my mind.

[kutulu 1,552]

Their three may as well be made out of paper mache.

[remote controller 133]

Their accomplishments under BB will be forever linked to the scandal, even if nothing else surfaces, or surfaces but doesn't stick. This is a marked organization.

[Boston 0]

It's pretty obvious most minds have been made up regardless of what happens but here's my take:

 

*If nothing else comes up than the legacy stays put. That would mean the Pats got caught taping, told the truth about what happened, handed over all material, didn't make any excuses or go on a PR campaign, paid a stiff penalty and took their medicine. While they got caught taping the allegation of lying is completetly false. Right now there is zero proof of lying. At the end of the day they'll be the butt of jokes and the haters will continue to hate but non-biased observers won't make more of this than should be.

 

*If anything else comes out, if they are caught lying or didn't come clean than all bets are off and the BB era earns a big fat asterik as painful as that is as a Patriot fan (and he's most likely a goner as well). Be it Watergate or Lewinsky it's not the original act that does you in but the cover-up. If infact the Pats didn't do exactly as the commish says than they are fair game for any and all punishments (regardless of how harsh) and they have no one to blame but themself.

 

I'd like to see this issue get resolved and whether that means Matt Walsh testifies, Roger Goodell gets grilled relentlessly or BB takes the stand I don't care. Just take the neccessary steps to come to an honest and final conclusion and than move on.

[jgcrawfish 232]

Their accomplishments under BB will be forever linked to the scandal, even if nothing else surfaces, or surfaces but doesn't stick. This is a marked organization.

 

does that even matter? there are no asterisks in sports, despite what everyone says. Mark McGuire and then Barry Bonds still owned the single season homerun record, and Barry still owns the all time record. McGuire probably won't make the HOF, but it still doesn't take away his ownership of the record. Barry will probably still make the HOF, regardless of the fact that just about everybody suspects he cheated. Unless absolutely irrefutable proof comes down and the NFL strips them of a title, it won't matter.

[Dan 59]

It's pretty obvious most minds have been made up regardless of what happens but here's my take:

 

*If nothing else comes up than the legacy stays put. That would mean the Pats got caught taping, told the truth about what happened, handed over all material, didn't make any excuses or go on a PR campaign, paid a stiff penalty and took their medicine. While they got caught taping the allegation of lying is completetly false. Right now there is zero proof of lying. At the end of the day they'll be the butt of jokes and the haters will continue to hate but non-biased observers won't make more of this than should be.

 

*If anything else comes out, if they are caught lying or didn't come clean than all bets are off and the BB era earns a big fat asterik as painful as that is as a Patriot fan (and he's most likely a goner as well). Be it Watergate or Lewinsky it's not the original act that does you in but the cover-up. If infact the Pats didn't do exactly as the commish says than they are fair game for any and all punishments (regardless of how harsh) and they have no one to blame but themself.

 

I'd like to see this issue get resolved and whether that means Matt Walsh testifies, Roger Goodell gets grilled relentlessly or BB takes the stand I don't care. Just take the neccessary steps to come to an honest and final conclusion and than move on.

 

This assumes one very important thing. There is a distinct presumption of a thorough investigation, which never took place, which is the reason the stigma sits there. If nothing else is done, the tarnish is there, and it's not "haters", it's reality. "Innocent until proven guilty" is for the legal system. Integrity is based on what is shown. I said before that the NFL did not do the Patriots any favors by brushing this so neatly aside as though that would make it go away.

 

They aren't haters, they are people wondering "what else?" And given that nothing was explored, it's a legitimate question.

 

There will always be complete idiots on either side, but you really won't know who they are unless there is an investigation done.

[Dan 59]

does that even matter? there are no asterisks in sports, despite what everyone says. Mark McGuire and then Barry Bonds still owned the single season homerun record, and Barry still owns the all time record. McGuire probably won't make the HOF, but it still doesn't take away his ownership of the record. Barry will probably still make the HOF, regardless of the fact that just about everybody suspects he cheated. Unless absolutely irrefutable proof comes down and the NFL strips them of a title, it won't matter.

 

The record will stay in tact, but it will still have the unwritten questions attached to it.

 

Barry will still hold his record, but he'll always be a part of the "steroid era."

[Boston 0]

This assumes one very important thing. There is a distinct presumption of a thorough investigation, which never took place, which is the reason the stigma sits there. If nothing else is done, the tarnish is there, and it's not "haters", it's reality. "Innocent until proven guilty" is for the legal system. Integrity is based on what is shown. I said before that the NFL did not do the Patriots any favors by brushing this so neatly aside as though that would make it go away.

 

They aren't haters, they are people wondering "what else?" And given that nothing was explored, it's a legitimate question.

 

There will always be complete idiots on either side, but you really won't know who they are unless there is an investigation done.

 

...and you're assuming an investigation wasn't done. Do you have any proof here? I see you make that accussation of a half-baked investigation but I just don't see any concrete proof. I don't think it's fair to assume (right now) that a thorough investigation wasn't done until you have proof. My hope is that what happens in the next few weeks will show the NFL did look into this closely and made their decision based on a thorough examination of the evidence. If not, than this story can and will change but I don't think it's fair to deal with anything but the info that has been proven and if and when new info arises than we can all agree about the integrity of this investigation.

[jgcrawfish 232]

...and you're assuming an investigation wasn't done. Do you have any proof here? I see you make that accussation of a half-baked investigation but I just don't see any concrete proof. I don't think it's fair to assume (right now) that a thorough investigation wasn't done until you have proof. My hope is that what happens in the next few weeks will show the NFL did look into this closely and made their decision based on a thorough examination of the evidence. If not, than this story can and will change but I don't think it's fair to deal with anything but the info that has been proven and if and when new info arises than we can all agree about the integrity of this investigation.

 

I think that's the point here, that the investigation wasn't thorough enough. This was essentially swept under the rug in a matter of days. The request was to produce all game tapes and the NFL spoke to some, but not necessarily all, NE Pat employees who might have had knowledge of it. They took it as word that it was all tapes that existed, that none had been destroyed, and did not talk to ex-employees. That's part of the reason that Specter and congress want to look into it. This won't be settled until all the loose ends are wrapped up.

[Dan 59]

...and you're assuming an investigation wasn't done. Do you have any proof here? I see you make that accussation of a half-baked investigation but I just don't see any concrete proof. I don't think it's fair to assume (right now) that a thorough investigation wasn't done until you have proof. My hope is that what happens in the next few weeks will show the NFL did look into this closely and made their decision based on a thorough examination of the evidence. If not, than this story can and will change but I don't think it's fair to deal with anything but the info that has been proven and if and when new info arises than we can all agree about the integrity of this investigation.

 

I believe the assumption fair based on the fact that so little was shown, and I'm not referring to what they found. If that's all there was, then great. Let it be done and over with. Unfortunately, Goodell made a mess of this one (and I'm a fan). Take the steps that he was willing to show - to the public and in his answers to Senator Specter - and there wasn't much done.

 

We have:

 

*The NFL reviewed the original tape in question.

*A demand that the Patriots turn over all other illegal material.

*Confirmation that it was done, by virtue of a signed statement from the Patriots. (Boy, that's comforting)

*The tapes given are destroyed. Wow!

 

If there was more that was done, why hasn't he said so? That does not sound like a thorough investigation. And you can make it sound like a witch hunt, but the reality is that these are questions that have been lingering for months that never got answered.

 

Boston, I understand your perspective. But don't you think that your bias for the team involved colors your perception a little of the "investigation" that was done?

[xenophobe 1]

The commish has stated that they have investiaged all these rumors thouroughly. Honestly, I would be shocked if they didn't. When these things hit the media, the league has every incentive to look into them because they have an awful lot at stake.

[Boston 0]

I believe the assumption fair based on the fact that so little was shown, and I'm not referring to what they found. If that's all there was, then great. Let it be done and over with. Unfortunately, Goodell made a mess of this one (and I'm a fan). Take the steps that he was willing to show - to the public and in his answers to Senator Specter - and there wasn't much done.

 

We have:

 

*The NFL reviewed the original tape in question.

*A demand that the Patriots turn over all other illegal material.

*Confirmation that it was done, by virtue of a signed statement from the Patriots. (Boy, that's comforting)

*The tapes given are destroyed. Wow!

 

If there was more that was done, why hasn't he said so? That does not sound like a thorough investigation. And you can make it sound like a witch hunt, but the reality is that these are questions that have been lingering for months that never got answered.

 

Boston, I understand your perspective. But don't you think that your bias for the team involved colors your perception a little of the "investigation" that was done?

 

I'm a homer but you're a Steeler fan who has no love-lost for the Pats and never has. I think we both come into this with a little bias. Yet, I really don't see where we are too different in wanting the truth but are probably hoping for a different outcome.

 

Overall, I believe I have been very consistent in this issue. I have based every comment I make based on factual eveidence. I did not defend the Pats when this issue arose. They defied the Commish's orders and got what they deserved. I don't believe what they did was anywhere near as bad as what many think it is but as far as getting punished that's a moot point because they deserved it. As far as the investigation goes I can only base my thoughts on what the NFL has told us and the factual evidence. It's no different than how I looked at the accussation of the Colts pumping in noise. While I had my questions I believe what the NFL found to be true and until I see evidence otherwise it's a dead story and I don't believe they did it.

 

Now, if you want to argue that Goodell didn't handle this well from a PR standpoint than I have zero issues. He was very rocky in his comments and would have served himself well to be a little more loose with the info. Yet, that doesn't mean he's covering up or lying. That can only be the case if actual evidence comes to light that proves that either he mislead the public or if he was shoddy in his efforts and was duped by the Pats. Until I see evidence that supports that I'll base my thoughts on what we know. If we see evidence to the contrary you won't see me defend the Patriots or any sanctions placed on them because they will have dug their own grave.

[drobeski 3,061]

The Giants shut down the most potent offense in the history of the league. They obviously had no buisness winning that game, therefore they must have cheated.

 

Can someone get me another asterik in the house. Thank you

[duece2626 0]

Seeing how the NFL is willing to give Matt Walsh legal help to protect against any law suit from NE, I think we are going to see more evidence that the Pats did alot more than what they gave or said to Goodell.

[Fumbleweed 426]

I believe the Patriots are the rightful owners of two NFL championships. It would take a lot for me to change my position on that.

 

However, I already believed that the Rams game was stolen from them due to excessive and unchecked defensive holding in the defensive secondary. It was a blatant display. Was it cheating? Of course not. You don't call your own fouls in football...it was the refs' job to make those calls, but they held the Rams receivers all day long and twice on Sunday all game long.

 

If indeed they snuck into a Rams' practice and taped their walkthrough, that only adds fuel to the fire. It will enhance my beliefs that Kurt Warner and the Rams should have been two-time Super Bowl champions.

 

The Patriots are the top franchise of this decade to date, IMO. The Rams game is the only thing I really, really have a problem with.

[markf 0]

*The tapes given are destroyed. Wow!

 

This is the point here. The reason that most feel it was swept under the rug, and in all likelihood why congress is now getting involved.

 

Doesn't matter what was on those tapes. Could've been old episodes of Dora the Explorer or something. Doesn't matter. You don't destroy them. They were supplied as evidence during an investigation by the NFL... and if all parties involved wanted to lend any credibility to this investigation, destroying evidence was not the way to do it.

 

In fact, if they truly did destroy them I'm sure it is a decision that is being regreted at this point by both the NFL and the Patriots, as they could be admitted as proof that there was nothing on them. Instead, it is now suspected that they in fact contained material that was "worthy of hiding".

[aportanenko 0]

This may seem out of topic and no one has cheated on me (knowingly), but when i go out with a girl on a first date, one of the first questions i ask her is if she has ever cheated on a guy, if she says yes or if she says no but i can tell she's lying then i know in my mind this is will either be a one-night stand or a platonic hug at her doorstep. Why give her another chance? Cheaters always cheat, it's in their genetic structure. Sure being a Pats fan is sexier than say a Pittsburgh fan, but the good thing about Pittsburgh she'll be cooking you dinner every night after a hard day at the office , while a Pat's fan will be driving home only to find on the way you catch a glimpse of New England getting tripleteamed by Lance, Raul, and D-Bo in the back of Discount Liquor.

[shovelheadt 62]

I see you make that accussation of a half-baked investigation but I just don't see any concrete proof.

 

My proof is that Walsh was never contacted in the beginning. Seems like that would be one of the first people to talk to. And the fact that NFL lawyers and Walsh lawyers are currently negotiating protection for him, tells me this thing is going to probably be huge.

[donkeyboy22 0]

The commish has stated that they have investiaged all these rumors thouroughly. Honestly, I would be shocked if they didn't. When these things hit the media, the league has every incentive to look into them because they have an awful lot at stake.

 

They have even more incentive to cover up something if there were things on those tapes which tainted any or all of NE's Super Bowl victories. That is the issue in my mind. If Goodell saw something which illegitimized those victories in any way, that is probably worse than steroids in baseball. He would want to fine BB for spygate but not go so far as to commit PR suicide on the league.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

I am fine with a thorough investigation by the NFL. However, I don't want my tax money doing it. I also want a thorough investigation as to whether other teams were doing similar things as well. I want each team to turn over their tapes or sign affadavits stipulating that they did not do anything. Then I want the NFL to investigate, thoroughly, each of those teams.

 

I don't think that the NFL looked into it that much because they knew that it was a widespread practice and they felt that it would tarnish the game. Instead, they fined the Patriots and have them take the blame as the sole "cheaters" out there. It is much cleaner that way and the league can move on. Unfortunately, something screwed up that plan a little.

 

If you want a thorough investigation, then you have to do it across the entire NFL and not just one team. If after that investigation, it is determined that one team only was involved, then punish them, but I would bet you that there are others.

[The Moz 69]

If anything else comes up I think Belichick is asked to resign. Kraft is embarrassed by this whole mess and while he lobes BB I don't think he would tolerate it if it really started blowing up into a Bonds type scandal.

 

I do think BB would take a office job though and be kind of like what Parcells is now and daniels would be coach.

[duece2626 0]

I am fine with a thorough investigation by the NFL. However, I don't want my tax money doing it. I also want a thorough investigation as to whether other teams were doing similar things as well. I want each team to turn over their tapes or sign affadavits stipulating that they did not do anything. Then I want the NFL to investigate, thoroughly, each of those teams.

 

I don't think that the NFL looked into it that much because they knew that it was a widespread practice and they felt that it would tarnish the game. Instead, they fined the Patriots and have them take the blame as the sole "cheaters" out there. It is much cleaner that way and the league can move on. Unfortunately, something screwed up that plan a little.

 

If you want a thorough investigation, then you have to do it across the entire NFL and not just one team. If after that investigation, it is determined that one team only was involved, then punish them, but I would bet you that there are others.

There is no "proof" of any other team in the league doing anything of the sort. NE was caught redhanded, therefore they are being investigated. The league "knew" it was a widespred practice? What proof do you have of that? Just because your team got caught, doesn't mean it's a league wide practice. NE will get what's coming to them if indeed there is more evidence out there (which is likely because of Walsh asking for legal help if he turns over evidence he has).

[NewbieJr 540]

If you want a thorough investigation, then you have to do it across the entire NFL and not just one team. If after that investigation, it is determined that one team only was involved, then punish them, but I would bet you that there are others.

If you think they are wasting money investigating the Patriots, imagine the wasted money investigating every team. The Patriots are KNOWN cheaters. Therfore, the investigation will begin with them, as it should. While investigating, if they should begin to unravel strings that lead to other teams doing similar acts, then the investigation should surely broaden to cover those teams.

 

All the 'buzz' everyone is hearing, whether it be the Rams Super Bowl game, or the loads of tapes and knowledge that Walsh has, is centered around the Patriots. There is no need to investigate all the teams that try to win legitimately. They don't investigate every citizen of a town when they find out that one of them is a thief.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

If you think they are wasting money investigating the Patriots, imagine the wasted money investigating every team. The Patriots are KNOWN cheaters. Therfore, the investigation will begin with them, as it should. While investigating, if they should begin to unravel strings that lead to other teams doing similar acts, then the investigation should surely broaden to cover those teams.

 

All the 'buzz' everyone is hearing, whether it be the Rams Super Bowl game, or the loads of tapes and knowledge that Walsh has, is centered around the Patriots. There is no need to investigate all the teams that try to win legitimately. They don't investigate every citizen of a town when they find out that one of them is a thief.

 

Really? You only investigate people that look like thugs.

 

Tom Landry (Cowboys), George Allen (Redskins), Jimmy Johnson (Cowboys, Dolphins) have all had plenty of stories written about their spying on other teams. Again, if you think that there was just one team that was doing these things, then I think that you are naive (amongst other things )

 

ETA: What is so hard about asking teams to turn over tapes or sign an affadavit saying that they did nothing? Then if they find out that someone did something, there is a penalty. Right now, the only target is on the Pats. If the target were elsewhere as well, I would imagine that someone wanting to blow the whistle could do so.

[BMoney 0]

The Giants shut down the most potent offense in the history of the league. They obviously had no buisness winning that game, therefore they must have cheated.

 

Can someone get me another asterik in the house. Thank you

 

 

i can get you another S so that you can finally spell the word correctly

[duece2626 0]

What is so hard about asking teams to turn over tapes or sign an affadavit saying that they did nothing?

Why? No other team got busted for cheating. They have no reason to ask other teams to turn over anything. But if stuff does come out like Newbie said, then sure, investage away. But until then, it's NE and only NE.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Why? No other team got busted for cheating. They have no reason to ask other teams to turn over anything.

 

If you did nothing wrong, then where is the problem. Why do you hate America and what are you trying to hide?

[duece2626 0]

If you did nothing wrong, then where is the problem. Why do you hate America and what are you trying to hide?

If there was never any evidence of any other team doing anything wrong, why ask them to turn over anything? That's like if someone where you work gets caught stealing $, are you going to investigate the entire company for stealing $?

[BMoney 0]

18 weeks of watching the Pats sweat and spin things will be A LOT more fun than 18 weeks of....whos the best qb-wr ever threads....

 

 

cant run it up on congress

 

oh and BB....dress nice for the courtroom, thank you...learned that from My Cousin Vinny

[NewbieJr 540]

If you did nothing wrong, then where is the problem. Why do you hate America and what are you trying to hide?

Actually, it's you that hates America if you think that the innocent should be brought to trial along with the guilty.

 

And you can stop trying to paint The Patriots as innocent victims and targets of a witch hunt. They were caught cheating. They deserve everything that goes along with that, including suspicion of everything that's happened in the past and an assumed guilt in teh court of public opinion whenever they're accused of anything else.

Mr. Best-coach-of-all-time should have considered all that when he decided his team needed an unfair advantage to try to win games. Now, he gets no sympathy.

[devilsden 0]

Really? You only investigate people that look like thugs.

 

Tom Landry (Cowboys), George Allen (Redskins), Jimmy Johnson (Cowboys, Dolphins) have all had plenty of stories written about their spying on other teams. Again, if you think that there was just one team that was doing these things, then I think that you are naive (amongst other things )

 

ETA: What is so hard about asking teams to turn over tapes or sign an affadavit saying that they did nothing? Then if they find out that someone did something, there is a penalty. Right now, the only target is on the Pats. If the target were elsewhere as well, I would imagine that someone wanting to blow the whistle could do so.

 

Hello Patriotsfatboy, I too am a New England Fan and have been since way back. Now having said that, you are assuming that other teams have done it. The big difference is that they do not have an arrogant head coach that thinks that the rules do not apply to him. I am done defending the moron. He has no class, he has embarrised the team and the franchise by his actions and his arrogance. The league sends out a memo to all the teams about teams having camera's on the field, now knowing Mangina hates him he says, "oooooohhhh the hell with it" and does it anyway. I would love for one of the reporters in a press conference to stop kissing his ass and ask him, "Coach with the players you have on offense why did you feel it necessary to even put the camera's on the sideline?"

 

You keep saying the only target is the Pats, well the Pats gave them good reason to be the target. The rest of the league, if it is going on probably is not doing it against a former coach a week after the league sent a memo banning the camera on the field. One arrogant moron has turned what could be a run for the Decade and turned the franchise into a set of question marks. But you keep defending him

[NewbieJr 540]

Hello Patriotsfatboy, I too am a New England Fan and have been since way back. Now having said that, you are assuming that other teams have done it. The big difference is that they do not have an arrogant head coach that thinks that the rules do not apply to him. I am done defending the moron. He has no class, he has embarrised the team and the franchise by his actions and his arrogance. The league sends out a memo to all the teams about teams having camera's on the field, now knowing Mangina hates him he says, "oooooohhhh the hell with it" and does it anyway. I would love for one of the reporters in a press conference to stop kissing his ass and ask him, "Coach with the players you have on offense why did you feel it necessary to even put the camera's on the sideline?"

 

You keep saying the only target is the Pats, well the Pats gave them good reason to be the target. The rest of the league, if it is going on probably is not doing it against a former coach a week after the league sent a memo banning the camera on the field. One arrogant moron has turned what could be a run for the Decade and turned the franchise into a set of question marks. But you keep defending him

The wisest, most unbiased Patriots fan I've heard yet on this subject. Finally a New Englander who sees this as every other fan in teh league does.

[duece2626 0]

devilsden =

[jgcrawfish 232]

I am fine with a thorough investigation by the NFL. However, I don't want my tax money doing it. I also want a thorough investigation as to whether other teams were doing similar things as well. I want each team to turn over their tapes or sign affadavits stipulating that they did not do anything. Then I want the NFL to investigate, thoroughly, each of those teams.

 

I don't think that the NFL looked into it that much because they knew that it was a widespread practice and they felt that it would tarnish the game. Instead, they fined the Patriots and have them take the blame as the sole "cheaters" out there. It is much cleaner that way and the league can move on. Unfortunately, something screwed up that plan a little.

 

If you want a thorough investigation, then you have to do it across the entire NFL and not just one team. If after that investigation, it is determined that one team only was involved, then punish them, but I would bet you that there are others.

 

OMG you are such an apologist. The issue here is that no other teams have been CAUGHT doing it like the Patriots have. Caught and admitted it, although BB bold-face lied about "not knowing it was wrong to do" since the league previously sent out letters to every team reminding them. Your tax $$$ will be used because the NFL was granted an anti-trust exemption by Congress, essentially making them a monopoly in the game of professional football. If something inappropriate happens at companies which are granted a-t's, investigation and if guilty, punishment, it always called for. Instead of apologizing and making excuses you should be acknowledging the tactics your team used and demanding that the truth and fairness be upheld.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

Now, I want every one of you to go back and check your posts from the steroid stuff.

 

Bonds was the only cheater out there and was the lightning rod. No one else had any allegations or proof of them cheating.

 

Now, we fast forward to today, where we have a ton of players who have evidence and suspicions against many others about using steroids. Let me know if you still think that this is an isolated situation.

 

ETA: I would also like you each to actually read what I wrote and take the emotion out of it. No apologies. No trying to say what Belichick has done was not wrong. Not at all. Just saying that you also have to look into the allegations made by those defending BB that they were not the only ones. Either you do the investigation all the way or don't do it at all.

[NewbieJr 540]

Now, I want every one of you to go back and check your posts from the steroid stuff.

 

Bonds was the only cheater out there and was the lightning rod. No one else had any allegations or proof of them cheating.

 

Now, we fast forward to today, where we have a ton of players who have evidence and suspicions against many others about using steroids. Let me know if you still think that this is an isolated situation.

McGwire and Sosa were suspected by many to be on gteh juice during their single season home run chase in 98. Bonds was still a year removed from his nsteroid abuse then. Your argument is wrong from the start. Bonds was a little late to teh party when it came to steroid suspicion.

The reason he became the poster boy for steroid abuse was because, 1) he was a very hateable guy, and 2) he was chasing a sacred record.

 

Belichick was CAUGHT cheating. No one else was. Why can't you see that? (or admit to see it, I should say)

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

McGwire and Sosa were suspected by many to be on gteh juice during their single season home run chase in 98. Bonds was still a year removed from his nsteroid abuse then. Your argument is wrong from the start. Bonds was a little late to teh party when it came to steroid suspicion.

The reason he became the poster boy for steroid abuse was because, 1) he was a very hateable guy, and 2) he was chasing a sacred record.

 

Belichick was CAUGHT cheating. No one else was. Why can't you see that? (or admit to see it, I should say)

 

Who said that they weren't caught? They have been the only one caught SO FAR. I find it very difficult to believe that the league would send out a memo to ALL teams on two separate occasions to clarify the rule if there was only ONE team involved.

 

I also find it very interesting that people want to go back several years and assume that the rules and practices in place today are the same as they were then.

 

BTW - don't you think that BB 1) is a very hatable guy and 2) they were chasing a sacred record

[NewbieJr 540]

BTW - don't you think that BB 1) is a very hatable guy and 2) they were chasing a sacred record

Yes, but it doesn't matter. Belichick was a hated guy last year, too. And the year before that. He didn't suddenly become hateable. The reason they are the posterboys for cheating is because THEY WRRE CAUGHT. There is no speculation. There is no witch hunt. They got caught. No other team did. Only them. Is there another team in teh league that cheats? Maybe. Maybe not. Just like I never gave it much thought before this season, I don't give it much thought now. I do, however, give a lot of thought to The patriots cheating and what we don't even know yet.