Ebonics

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 40]

And also why white folks always steal and become a part of Black art forms such as jazz, blues and hip hop, right?

 

And, blacks should not participate in any type of music outside these forums lest they be accused of theft. Classical, rock, country just to name a few.

 

Classic racism, Peenie. What is yours, we want to participate in fully or you are racist. Anything we develop is ours and you are a racist for participating, even in the smallest degree.

 

You seriously make me Then that anyone could be so ignorant.

[kilroy69 1,247]

Wow, what thoughtful rebuttals.

 

Face it. Your ridiculous claim that whites don't envy Blacks is off base. Period. Don't be ashamed of it. Accept it. Embrace it. Live with it. But above all, don't deny it.

Your claims that whites envy blacks is the one that is way off base. You live in a dream world where white people want to be black when its just not the case. If you ask 10 white people if they had the choice would they want to be black and I would say that 10 out of 10 would look at you and laugh.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 40]

Your claims that whites envy blacks is the one that is way off base. You live in a dream world where white people want to be black when its just not the case. If you ask 10 white people if they had the choice would they want to be black and I would say that 10 out of 10 would look at you and laugh.

I would rather be Hispanic or Oriental than black if I were not White. It's a work ethic thing and a goal thing. I want to be part a group that is proud of what was accomplished and looks forward, rather than being proud of being illiterate and living off the benevolence of others by choice.

 

No link, but I read somewhere today that over 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock. Yeah, that's something I would be proud of.

[kilroy69 1,247]

I would rather be Hispanic or Oriental than black if I were not White. It's a work ethic thing and a goal thing. I want to be part a group that is proud of what was accomplished and looks forward, rather than being proud of being illiterate and living off the benevolence of others by choice.

 

No link, but I read somewhere today that over 70% of black kids are born out of wedlock. Yeah, that's something I would be proud of.

According to peenie hispanics are blacks anyway. Im not sure but I think Orientals are black in her book too. And if they are not, they long to be.

[Let Da Big Dog Eat 40]

According to peenie hispanics are blacks anyway. Im not sure but I am sure Orientals are black in her book too. And if they are not, they long to be.

LOL. Here is another interesting note that no one talks about. Prior to LBJ and his "Great Society" read the initiation of Welfare (I won't address the Vietnam War) blacks had an out-of-marriage birthrate that was less than 1/4 what it was for whites. Since Welfare, we all know what has happened.

 

When a group gets paid for not working, not educating themselves, having babies out of wedlock and not supporting them, I guess that is something I should be jealous of.......

 

Excuse me now while I take off my belt so my jeans droop and underwear shows. That is not only creative but shows my intellect and education.

[VaTerp 0]

Their lips are two big to pronounciate properly

 

Ironic that in trying to make fun of how you think a group of people speak, you make up your own word. Its enunciate you POS. HTH

 

It's just cultural. You speak like the people you are around. It's not a "black" thing anymore so than Italians eating spaghetti is an Italian thing. You do what you know, and you usually continue in the way you're raised. So if you're brought up hearing people speak like that, you're going to grow up to speak that way in all likelyhood, unless somewhere along the line you feel the need to speak correctly or whatever. The majority of people don't make that change, and sadly it's attached to a certain stigma that discourages more young people from speaking the right way.

 

A legitimate response. I hope that you dont grow older and become a pathetic bigot like so many posters here.

 

You guys dont want to discuss this intelligently, you just want to use this thread as an excuse to spew your bigotry.

 

Ebonics is a BS term that was made up by some idiots. The reason that a large percentage of black people use improper English is a combination of factors.

 

1. Speaking generically, Blacks in this country have not had access to the same quality of education that Whites and others have. Going back to slavery blacks were discouraged from learning to read and were even killed if they could read b/c they were viewed as a threat. And for several decades after slavery sharecropping practices and segregation relegated the few blacks who did go to school to a sub par education. As a result you have uneducated parents speaking broken English and raising kids who are likely to do the same. People like to dismiss things like they were so long ago but things get passed on from generation to generation. Im 29 years old and my father was part of the first racially integrated class at his high school. He told me that if the school hadnt been integrated he wouldnt have gone to the black high school on the other side of town and instead went to work for my grandfather. So if things happen a lil differently my father wouldnt have had a high school education.

 

2. Due to things that have happened over the history of this country many black people feel disenfranchised from mainstream society. Again, parents pass things on to their kids who in turn pass things on to their children. Even though there are many more opportunities for people of all backgrounds in this country NOW many Blacks do not realize those opportunities because of where they grow up and the negative perceptions of the older generations who influence their environment. Therefore they develop an attitude of Fvck mainstream America and develop their own culture, which includes slang language.

 

3. Many different groups of people use slang. Im not just talking about accents but slang language where they make up words for different things. Its especially prevalent among young people who make up words so adults or other people dont know what they're talking about. I work with a public school system and kids, of all races, come up with all kinds of stupid sayings. They dont even realize that half of it is recycled slang from generations past but again, kids of ALL races use slang.

 

4. Black slang has beccome more prevalent b/c Hip Hop music has become the most popular genre in the world. One of the most important elements of "Hip Hop culture" is to have persevered a tough environment and still become successful. So there is a certain pride factor in "making it" after growing up poor. Some youth today have mistakenly taken that pride of perserverance and actually made it pride in being "ghetto." That is a problem IMO and many more black people need to realize that there is a time and place for everything and its not in your best interest to speak with potential employeers or contacts the same way you can speak to your friends at home. But there is also the problem that I believe Me06 alludes to in that their is a certain negative stigma about "talking and acting white" for a lot of black people.

 

5. IMO education, literacy, and speaking in a professional manner are all significant factors that need to be addressed in the black community. If you would like to be part of the solution then lets have a discussion and try to figure some stuff out. If you dont care then fine, just STFU and go about your merry way.

[kutulu 1,676]

Nigga, please.

[wiffleball 4,790]

VT - nice post.

 

However, it really doesn't address one of my core peeves:

 

Educated Black Politicians.

 

When they were growing up, "AX" wasn't generally used. They went on to get law degrees and go to decent schools - "AX" wasn't used there either. Now, hip-hop came out and some ignorant negroes started using that to differentiate themselves. And now, I see middle-aged educated Black men using the term "ax" instead of "ask".

 

It wasn't their culture growing up, it wasn't their education, it was none of what you listed. It's straight up pandering - and it's patronizing to blacks and annoying to everybody else. -- And damages the hell out of the person who uses it. No different than Hillary adopting that ridiculous southern accent.

 

[KSB2424 3,148]

When you have to resort to picking out typo's on an internet message board to make a "comeback" it makes you look stoopid. HTH

[kutulu 1,676]

When you have to resort to picking out typo's on an internet message board to make a "comeback" it makes you look stoopid. HTH

 

 

Word...and it's "stupid".

[VaTerp 0]

VT - nice post.

 

However, it really doesn't address one of my core peeves:

 

Educated Black Politicians.

 

When they were growing up, "AX" wasn't generally used. They went on to get law degrees and go to decent schools - "AX" wasn't used there either. Now, hip-hop came out and some ignorant negroes started using that to differentiate themselves. And now, I see middle-aged educated Black men using the term "ax" instead of "ask".

 

It wasn't their culture growing up, it wasn't their education, it was none of what you listed. It's straight up pandering - and it's patronizing to blacks and annoying to everybody else. -- And damages the hell out of the person who uses it. No different than Hillary adopting that ridiculous southern accent.

 

 

Thats interesting. I havent noticed it as much, maybe b/c I have different lens than you in looking at it.

 

I will say that just b/c some black people are educated and have gone on to law school or other graduate programs doesnt mean that they didnt grow up around lot of people who spoke that way. And I think some of it is southern vernacular/slang that many people have whether they are educated or not.

 

There's also another dynamic that is kind of hard to explain. Part of being black in America is that you are always conscious of your race. I grew up in the suburbs, consider myself pretty well-educated and what not but I still use "black slang" when talking to friends, family, etc. Right or wrong, part of me always feels that I have to balance some of the things I say and do with "being black," Again, its kind of hard to explain.

 

And it could just be blatant and phony pandering like you suggested. I tend to think that for most its a bit more complicated than that though.

[RLLD 4,230]

According to peenie hispanics are blacks anyway. Im not sure but I think Orientals are black in her book too. And if they are not, they long to be.

 

Sourcing pennie is not wise, she is a racist and as such her views must all be observed with reservation...

[paulinstl 296]

Ebonics is nothing more than slang by an individual group of people. No different than Southern slang or Valley Girl speak, or surfer dude speak.

[RLLD 4,230]

Ebonics is nothing more than slang by an individual group of people. No different than Southern slang or Valley Girl speak, or surfer dude speak.

 

I am not aware of any racially-based organizational attempts to legitimize these slang-stylizations, and I think that distinguishes ebonics among them.

[rallo 136]

Before you go ahead and jump on me peenie about this being a racist thread hear me out. Why do blacks insist on speaking the english language this way? For the most part they recieve the same education that white people do and yet insist on using ebonics. Don't they understand that it makes them sound dumb? My class was about half black where I grew up. I watched as the black kids in class spoke their version of english even as teachers tried to break them of it. They did not care then and I am sure they don't care now. Hell even illegals can speak the english language better than a lot of blacks that were born here. Its just something I don't understand.

 

it's obviously a regional/cultural thing.

 

for instance when i went to london a lot of people couldn't understand me because apparently lots of americans combine their words...

 

an example when i was in a pub i'd order a beer

 

i thought i was saying "i'll have a pint"

 

but the guy couldn't understand...

 

apparently it sounds more like "i'll-havea (all one word) pint"

 

so he thought i was asking for a half pint or something...

 

didn't make sense to me at the time, but when i was back in the states i realized how different it was...

 

the only difference is that there is a negative connotation to blacks, so if they speak different from what we assume is proper english then they are thought to be dumb

[paulinstl 296]

I am not aware of any racially-based organizational attempts to legitimize these slang-stylizations, and I think that distinguishes ebonics among them.

 

 

Fo shizzle!

[VaTerp 0]

I am not aware of any racially-based organizational attempts to legitimize these slang-stylizations, and I think that distinguishes ebonics among them.

 

What organizations have tried to legitimize ebonics?

 

I think that the people who tried to do this are Idiots but I dont recall any specific organizations that actually supported it.

[itsjjw 0]

1 ) Language is communication. As long as people using that particular language understand each other. Then because you do not understand it, that's your problem not there's. If you go to France and do not speak French, its your problem. If a French person comes here and you do not understand, them, you say " I am sorry, but I do not speak French". Try saying " I am sorry, but I do not speak Ebonics", and they may be able to speak American English (not English English, or Canadian English) with you.

 

2 ) Language is not static. It is a dynamic evolving thing. Adapt or die.

[KSB2424 3,148]

I just left a message on my directors phone here at the office. I ended it with: "Holla back shorty!" I wonder how it will be taken?

[Strike 5,532]

What organizations have tried to legitimize ebonics?

 

I think that the people who tried to do this are Idiots but I dont recall any specific organizations that actually supported it.

 

Uh, about 8 years ago the Bay Area school district tried to make it part of their curriculum. It made national headlines and embarrassed the fock out of them so they didn't do it. Are you black BTW?

[jerryskids 6,790]

Face it. Your ridiculous claim that whites don't envy Blacks is off base. Period. Don't be ashamed of it. Accept it. Embrace it. Live with it. But above all, don't deny it.

I would certainly agree that many white teens try to emulate black culture. Are they envious, I dunno... I'd attribute it to:

1. Hip-hop artists being very overt with their wealth, bling, posses, whatever... to a teen, that would seem more "cool" than a successful business owner saving for retirement.

2. Teens are programmed to rebel against their parents. White adults for the most part aren't into the hip-hop scene (reference this thread...). So white teens do stuff to piss off their parents.

 

To say white adults envy blacks... that is a stretch at best. There may be some, um, physiological things we are jealous of, but...

[VaTerp 0]

Uh, about 8 years ago the Bay Area school district tried to make it part of their curriculum. It made national headlines and embarrassed the fock out of them so they didn't do it. Are you black BTW?

 

Yes, Im black which is pretty obvious if you read my first post in this thread.

 

And Im aware of the Oakland School District saga involving ebonics but I was responding to the post that referred to "racially based organiztional attempts to legitimize it." I was thinking more a long the lines of a national racially based organization and not a school district.

 

BTW, Im not in favor of classifying "ebonics" at all but what the Oakland school district was trying to do about 11 or 12 years ago was widely misreported. They werent trying to make "ebonics" part of their curriculum or substitute it for standard English. Rather they were trying to classify it so that teachers would recognize that kids were coming into the classroom speaking a language that was not standard English and trying to find a way to connect with them so they could help them improve their linguistic skills.

 

Again, I dont agree with how they went about it but it was very much misrepresented by the media. And I dont think you'll find many people of any color who support legitimizing "ebonics" now.

[kutulu 1,676]

Yes, Im black which is pretty obvious if you read my first post in this thread.

 

And Im aware of the Oakland School District saga involving ebonics but I was responding to the post that referred to "racially based organiztional attempts to legitimize it." I was thinking more a long the lines of a national racially based organization and not a school district.

 

BTW, Im not in favor of classifying "ebonics" at all but what the Oakland school district was trying to do about 11 or 12 years ago was widely misreported. They werent trying to make "ebonics" part of their curriculum or substitute it for standard English. Rather they were trying to classify it so that teachers would recognize that kids were coming into the classroom speaking a language that was not standard English and trying to find a way to connect with them so they could help them improve their linguistic skills.

 

Again, I dont agree with how they went about it but it was very much misrepresented by the media. And I dont think you'll find many people of any color who support legitimizing "ebonics" now.

 

Sh1t, negro! That's all you had to say!

[I have no idea what i'm doing 0]

Good postings VaTerp.

[Strike 5,532]

1. Speaking generically, Blacks in this country have not had access to the same quality of education that Whites and others have. Going back to slavery blacks were discouraged from learning to read and were even killed if they could read b/c they were viewed as a threat. And for several decades after slavery sharecropping practices and segregation relegated the few blacks who did go to school to a sub par education. As a result you have uneducated parents speaking broken English and raising kids who are likely to do the same. People like to dismiss things like they were so long ago but things get passed on from generation to generation. Im 29 years old and my father was part of the first racially integrated class at his high school. He told me that if the school hadnt been integrated he wouldnt have gone to the black high school on the other side of town and instead went to work for my grandfather. So if things happen a lil differently my father wouldnt have had a high school education.

 

I can't speak for the rest of the country although I suspect similar programs exist in at least some parts of the country but, in Los Angeles, an inner city kid has the option of attending a school out in the suburbs where the "white" people go if they think their school is not worthy. It's been that way for at least 25 years. After their failed attempt at forced busing was a complete failure they came up with the voluntary plan. We had at least 5 long ass buses of African Americans attending my high school. I suspect they were the ones who actually wanted to learn and I further suspect none of them speaks "ebonics" now.

[VaTerp 0]

I can't speak for the rest of the country although I suspect similar programs exist in at least some parts of the country but, in Los Angeles, an inner city kid has the option of attending a school out in the suburbs where the "white" people go if they think their school is not worthy. It's been that way for at least 25 years. After their failed attempt at forced busing was a complete failure they came up with the voluntary plan. We had at least 5 long ass buses of African Americans attending my high school. I suspect they were the ones who actually wanted to learn and I further suspect none of them speaks "ebonics" now.

 

That sounds good and all. But your are talking about 1 school district and you are talking about something thats gone on for 25 years. How many generations has that had an affect on when compared to other things that went on in this country in the past. And I highly doubt that they were the only ones who wanted to learn and I further doubt that "none of them speaks ebonics now." In fact, Im sure there are plenty of white kids at the schools you're talking about speak "ebonics" now.

 

Different school districts have hundreds, if not thousands, of variations of how they do things but the fact of the matter is that its not as simple as you like to make it sound. As a whole, black people have not had access to the type of education that whites have. Again, that is changing but its a slow and difficult change when you too many have kids today being raised by people who arent educated b/c they were raised by people who werent uneducated. Just a fact.

[kilroy69 1,247]

Where to start? Oh well lets start from the top.

 

 

Ebonics is a BS term that was made up by some idiots. The reason that a large percentage of black people use improper English is a combination of factors.

 

"A term created by a group of black scholars." So the idiots that created this term were black people themselves. Its not as if some white man decided that blacks need a term for their poor english skills.

 

 

1. Speaking generically, Blacks in this country have not had access to the same quality of education that Whites and others have. Going back to slavery blacks were discouraged from learning to read and were even killed if they could read b/c they were viewed as a threat. And for several decades after slavery sharecropping practices and segregation relegated the few blacks who did go to school to a sub par education. As a result you have uneducated parents speaking broken English and raising kids who are likely to do the same. People like to dismiss things like they were so long ago but things get passed on from generation to generation. Im 29 years old and my father was part of the first racially integrated class at his high school. He told me that if the school hadnt been integrated he wouldnt have gone to the black high school on the other side of town and instead went to work for my grandfather. So if things happen a lil differently my father wouldnt have had a high school education.

 

 

I am glad that your father got an education, really. Does he speak ebonics? Using the "black kids don't have access to the same quality of education" could work........if this were the 50's or 60's. Here in michigan we are a school of choice state. If you don't like the school that your kid is attending you can move them to a new one. My brother did not like the school he was at and decided to go 20 miles away to a new school(better sports program). It has been more than 50 years since Desegregation of the school systems. How long are black people going to use that as a crutch?

 

 

 

 

 

2. Due to things that have happened over the history of this country many black people feel disenfranchised from mainstream society. Again, parents pass things on to their kids who in turn pass things on to their children. Even though there are many more opportunities for people of all backgrounds in this country NOW many Blacks do not realize those opportunities because of where they grow up and the negative perceptions of the older generations who influence their environment. Therefore they develop an attitude of Fvck mainstream America and develop their own culture, which includes slang language.

 

Ahh so it all goes back to the fact that bad things have been done to black folks. Oh ok. Because nothing bad has ever happened to any other race of people. I mean the indians have had it really easy over the years. The jews have had a peach of a time. Your ansestors were brought over on a slave ship you say? Congrats so were mine. I am of scottesh decent and were brought over to the states as indentured servants that eventually were able to buy freedom. These other groups of people were able to overcome the terrible things that happened to them and not think the man is out to get them. Its in the best interest of blacks to understand that the man is not trying to keep him down. However blacks seem to relish the fact that they are just getting by. Not really trying to do something more for themselves than collect a check and smoke weed.

 

 

3. Many different groups of people use slang. Im not just talking about accents but slang language where they make up words for different things. Its especially prevalent among young people who make up words so adults or other people dont know what they're talking about. I work with a public school system and kids, of all races, come up with all kinds of stupid sayings. They dont even realize that half of it is recycled slang from generations past but again, kids of ALL races use slang.

 

Slang is one thing, ebonics is the antonym of black English and is considered to be a language other than English.

 

4. Black slang has beccome more prevalent b/c Hip Hop music has become the most popular genre in the world. One of the most important elements of "Hip Hop culture" is to have persevered a tough environment and still become successful. So there is a certain pride factor in "making it" after growing up poor. Some youth today have mistakenly taken that pride of perserverance and actually made it pride in being "ghetto." That is a problem IMO and many more black people need to realize that there is a time and place for everything and its not in your best interest to speak with potential employeers or contacts the same way you can speak to your friends at home. But there is also the problem that I believe Me06 alludes to in that their is a certain negative stigma about "talking and acting white" for a lot of black people.

 

I have to say you are wrong about the fact that "Hip Hop music has become the most popular genre in the world" Music sales of all genres fell in 2007, when compared to 2006 data. Rap was hit particularly hard with 30% drop between 2006 and 2007. Rap music sales have declined every year since 04. As a matter of fact they have been cut in half. The last rap album to sell well was The Eminem Show with 7.6 million copies. Ironic that the last best selling rapper was white. Its hard to change your way of speaking. Just as I could not go into the ghetto and speak ebonics to a prospective employer black teens can not go into the mainstream and speak correct english to a prospective employer. Especially if they really do not know what proper english is because they never took the time to learn.

 

 

 

5. IMO education, literacy, and speaking in a professional manner are all significant factors that need to be addressed in the black community. If you would like to be part of the solution then lets have a discussion and try to figure some stuff out. If you dont care then fine, just STFU and go about your merry way.

 

 

But they are not addressed. Black leaders say things such as may I AX you a question. They enhance the problem when they speak this way because kids see their leaders speaking like this and think its ok. They thrive on any reason to think that the man is holding them down when its not the man that anymore. It may have been 50 years ago but times have changed. The black community is holding itself down by not stepping up to the plate and demanding change. Demanding that the parents of the black comminity start to teach their kids. Putting up community centers that help them learn if their parents are too lazy to teach them the skills they need to be a productive member of society. Explain to them that its not ok to live off of welfare and that the world is moving on without them as we speak. They are falling further and further behind as a race.

[jerryskids 6,790]

As a whole, black people have not had access to the type of education that whites have. Again, that is changing but its a slow and difficult change when you too many have kids today being raised by people who arent educated b/c they were raised by people who werent uneducated. Just a fact.

Disagree and agree. It IS there if people want to take advantage of it. But, the lack of education of the previous generation is keeping it from happening. Well, that and the Sharptons of the world focusing on why blacks CAN'T succeed in today's society, instead of why they CAN.

 

This is the cycle which needs to be broken.

[Strike 5,532]

That sounds good and all. But your are talking about 1 school district and you are talking about something thats gone on for 25 years. How many generations has that had an affect on when compared to other things that went on in this country in the past. And I highly doubt that they were the only ones who wanted to learn and I further doubt that "none of them speaks ebonics now." In fact, Im sure there are plenty of white kids at the schools you're talking about speak "ebonics" now.

 

Different school districts have hundreds, if not thousands, of variations of how they do things but the fact of the matter is that its not as simple as you like to make it sound. As a whole, black people have not had access to the type of education that whites have. Again, that is changing but its a slow and difficult change when you too many have kids today being raised by people who arent educated b/c they were raised by people who werent uneducated. Just a fact.

 

first of all that "one school district" probably has more students than some states. Secondly, I'd bet other school districts have similar programs so it's probably not just ONE. Third, 25 years is a full generation. It should be having an effect and, if all eligible participants took advantage of that program, there shouldn't be any ebonic speaking African Americans in Los Angeles yet there are MORE than there were then. Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that lack of quality education is NOT a major factor in why African Americans choose to speak Ebonically.

 

Maybe it is as simple as I make it sound, or closer to the middle than you allow, and African Americans should quit blaming everyone else for their problems and start looking inwardly?

[kilroy69 1,247]

first of all that "one school district" probably has more students than some states. Secondly, I'd bet other school districts have similar programs so it's probably not just ONE. Third, 25 years is a full generation. It should be having an effect and, if all eligible participants took advantage of that program, there shouldn't be any ebonic speaking African Americans in Los Angeles yet there are MORE than there were then. Therefore, it's reasonable to conclude that lack of quality education is NOT a major factor in why African Americans choose to speak Ebonically.

 

Maybe it is as simple as I make it sound, or closer to the middle than you allow, and African Americans should quit blaming everyone else for their problems and start looking inwardly?

A dozen states and the District of Columbia have private school choice programs and Forty states and the District of Columbia now have charter schools.

[I have no idea what i'm doing 0]

Disagree and agree. It IS there if people want to take advantage of it. But, the lack of education of the previous generation is keeping it from happening. Well, that and the Sharptons of the world focusing on why blacks CAN'T succeed in today's society, instead of why they CAN.

 

This is the cycle which needs to be broken.

I got what you said from his post, minus the Sharpton stuff.

[I have no idea what i'm doing 0]

My comments in red. I thought VaTerp had a good post, especially in light of what came before it in this thread.

 

Where to start? Oh well lets start from the top.

Ebonics is a BS term that was made up by some idiots. The reason that a large percentage of black people use improper English is a combination of factors.

 

"A term created by a group of black scholars." So the idiots that created this term were black people themselves. Its not as if some white man decided that blacks need a term for their poor english skills.

 

He said that ebonics was made up by idiots, with no mention of color, you are the one inserting race here.

 

1. Speaking generically, Blacks in this country have not had access to the same quality of education that Whites and others have. Going back to slavery blacks were discouraged from learning to read and were even killed if they could read b/c they were viewed as a threat. And for several decades after slavery sharecropping practices and segregation relegated the few blacks who did go to school to a sub par education. As a result you have uneducated parents speaking broken English and raising kids who are likely to do the same. People like to dismiss things like they were so long ago but things get passed on from generation to generation. Im 29 years old and my father was part of the first racially integrated class at his high school. He told me that if the school hadnt been integrated he wouldnt have gone to the black high school on the other side of town and instead went to work for my grandfather. So if things happen a lil differently my father wouldnt have had a high school education.

 

I am glad that your father got an education, really. Does he speak ebonics? Using the "black kids don't have access to the same quality of education" could work........if this were the 50's or 60's. Here in michigan we are a school of choice state. If you don't like the school that your kid is attending you can move them to a new one. My brother did not like the school he was at and decided to go 20 miles away to a new school(better sports program). It has been more than 50 years since Desegregation of the school systems. How long are black people going to use that as a crutch?

 

He is talking about the impact of the generational transfer of poor education in the black community (see bolded). As jerryskids put it, "the lack of education of the previous generation is keeping it from happening." And then you just dismiss it. Things like this take time. When whole generations are denied access to quality education, it is easy to see why education in the following generations is still not up to par.

 

2. Due to things that have happened over the history of this country many black people feel disenfranchised from mainstream society. Again, parents pass things on to their kids who in turn pass things on to their children. Even though there are many more opportunities for people of all backgrounds in this country NOW many Blacks do not realize those opportunities because of where they grow up and the negative perceptions of the older generations who influence their environment. Therefore they develop an attitude of Fvck mainstream America and develop their own culture, which includes slang language.

 

Ahh so it all goes back to the fact that bad things have been done to black folks. Oh ok. Because nothing bad has ever happened to any other race of people. I mean the indians have had it really easy over the years. The jews have had a peach of a time. Your ansestors were brought over on a slave ship you say? Congrats so were mine. I am of scottesh decent and were brought over to the states as indentured servants that eventually were able to buy freedom. These other groups of people were able to overcome the terrible things that happened to them and not think the man is out to get them. Its in the best interest of blacks to understand that the man is not trying to keep him down. However blacks seem to relish the fact that they are just getting by. Not really trying to do something more for themselves than collect a check and smoke weed.

 

You essentially repeat what he says (bolded), then go on to make a ridiculous overgeneralization. Hello, Mr. Angry White Male.

 

 

3. Many different groups of people use slang. Im not just talking about accents but slang language where they make up words for different things. Its especially prevalent among young people who make up words so adults or other people dont know what they're talking about. I work with a public school system and kids, of all races, come up with all kinds of stupid sayings. They dont even realize that half of it is recycled slang from generations past but again, kids of ALL races use slang.

 

Slang is one thing, ebonics is the antonym of black English and is considered to be a language other than English.

 

Ebonics is slang combined with poor grammar. A reflection of the defects in education we've been talking about.

 

4. Black slang has beccome more prevalent b/c Hip Hop music has become the most popular genre in the world. One of the most important elements of "Hip Hop culture" is to have persevered a tough environment and still become successful. So there is a certain pride factor in "making it" after growing up poor. Some youth today have mistakenly taken that pride of perserverance and actually made it pride in being "ghetto." That is a problem IMO and many more black people need to realize that there is a time and place for everything and its not in your best interest to speak with potential employeers or contacts the same way you can speak to your friends at home. But there is also the problem that I believe Me06 alludes to in that their is a certain negative stigma about "talking and acting white" for a lot of black people.

 

I have to say you are wrong about the fact that "Hip Hop music has become the most popular genre in the world" Music sales of all genres fell in 2007, when compared to 2006 data. Rap was hit particularly hard with 30% drop between 2006 and 2007. Rap music sales have declined every year since 04. As a matter of fact they have been cut in half. The last rap album to sell well was The Eminem Show with 7.6 million copies. Ironic that the last best selling rapper was white. Its hard to change your way of speaking. Just as I could not go into the ghetto and speak ebonics to a prospective employer black teens can not go into the mainstream and speak correct english to a prospective employer. Especially if they really do not know what proper english is because they never took the time to learn.

 

This is all somewhat irrelevant. What VaTerp says about rap being tops in the world is probably an overstatement, but his basic point that ebonics has spread through the pop-culture influence of rap music makes obvious sense. And rap is no doubt the main force in American "pop" music today.

 

5. IMO education, literacy, and speaking in a professional manner are all significant factors that need to be addressed in the black community. If you would like to be part of the solution then lets have a discussion and try to figure some stuff out. If you dont care then fine, just STFU and go about your merry way.

 

But they are not addressed. Black leaders say things such as may I AX you a question. They enhance the problem when they speak this way because kids see their leaders speaking like this and think its ok. They thrive on any reason to think that the man is holding them down when its not the man that anymore. It may have been 50 years ago but times have changed. The black community is holding itself down by not stepping up to the plate and demanding change. Demanding that the parents of the black comminity start to teach their kids. Putting up community centers that help them learn if their parents are too lazy to teach them the skills they need to be a productive member of society. Explain to them that its not ok to live off of welfare and that the world is moving on without them as we speak. They are falling further and further behind as a race.

 

The only thing I would add is that the entire American community, black, white, and otherwise, has a role in this process. Unfortunately, racial politics make it extremely difficult for white leaders to speak to the harsh realities, so competent black leadership IS what is most needed. To be honest, I think Barrack Obama is a timely example of such leadership.

[Homestar Runner 0]

Before you go ahead and jump on me peenie about this being a racist thread hear me out. Why do blacks insist on speaking the english language this way? For the most part they recieve the same education that white people do and yet insist on using ebonics. Don't they understand that it makes them sound dumb? My class was about half black where I grew up. I watched as the black kids in class spoke their version of english even as teachers tried to break them of it. They did not care then and I am sure they don't care now. Hell even illegals can speak the english language better than a lot of blacks that were born here. Its just something I don't understand.

 

i think this is more of an american/generational thing. were these black kids in your class african? or even caribbean? i highly doubt it.

 

how many king era blacks speak this ebonics you're talking about? remember the whole cosby episode?

[I have no idea what i'm doing 0]

i think this is more of an american/generational thing. were these black kids in your class african? or even caribbean? i highly doubt it.

 

how many king era blacks speak this ebonics you're talking about? remember the whole cosby episode?

It's also a class thing. Middle class and upwards folks don't talk like that.

[Strike 5,532]

He is talking about the impact of the generational transfer of poor education in the black community (see bolded). As jerryskids put it, "the lack of education of the previous generation is keeping it from happening." And then you just dismiss it. Things like this take time. When whole generations are denied access to quality education, it is easy to see why education in the following generations is still not up to par.

 

My grandfather moved here from China as an illegal alien with no money and no formal education. He was able to create an environment which allowed my Mother and her siblings to be successful. You don't have to be from a wealthy white family to enable your children to be successful. I'm not buying it just because African Americans use it as an excuse.

 

 

The only thing I would add is that the entire American community, black, white, and otherwise, has a role in this process. Unfortunately, racial politics make it extremely difficult for white leaders to speak to the harsh realities, so competent black leadership IS what is most needed. To be honest, I think Barrack Obama is a timely example of such leadership.

 

Disagree. The responsibility of this country is not to make a person successful. As long as there are no institutional barriers to success it is up to the individual to create whatever level of success they choose to create. There has to be a reason African Americans are moving further and further behind with each generation instead of having more and more success. I would opine that people such as Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton, not to mention gangsta rap, have a lot more to do with the problems in Black America than any of us do at this point.

[Homestar Runner 0]

It's also a class thing. Middle class and upwards folks don't talk like that.

 

i wish youtube was around when i was in college. then i could show you the middle-class greenwich, ct prep school educated guys on my campus who insisted on not only speaking "ebonics" but rapping about a hood they know nothing about

 

something about black cred or whatever...

[Strike 5,532]

i wish youtube was around when i was in college. then i could show you the middle-class greenwich, ct prep school educated guys on my campus who insisted on not only speaking "ebonics" but rapping about a hood they know nothing about

 

something about black cred or whatever...

 

You went to school with Vanilla Ice?

[kilroy69 1,247]

i think this is more of an american/generational thing. were these black kids in your class african? or even caribbean? i highly doubt it.

 

how many king era blacks speak this ebonics you're talking about? remember the whole cosby episode?

Actually we had quite a few actual AFRICANS that went to my school. We also had a large laotion population. Both seemed to do very well.They spoke the language well and had a much higher % of their people graduated than the average african american.

[/Osiris/ 0]

To say white adults envy blacks... that is a stretch at best.

A bit of hyperbole on my part, sure, but I had to stoop to kilroy's level so that he could hear me.

 

And please, kilroy, stop already with the /Osiris/ = Peenie analogies. Not true, dude.

[kilroy69 1,247]

A bit of hyperbole on my part, sure, but I had to stoop to kilroy's level so that he could hear me.

 

And please, kilroy, stop already with the /Osiris/ = Peenie analogies. Not true, dude.

A BIT? I would say a little more than a bit but thats your opinion. You apparently live in a world where people want to be black. I do not.

 

Hey I am not the only one that thinks you sound wayyyy to much like peenie.Not to mention that you both appear in the same threads defending each others beliefs, dude.