Let's get it started....

[murf74 461]

Let's discuss

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-g...p&type=lgns

[papaluigi 0]

Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others. Cheating implies the breaking of rules.

 

***

[murf74 461]

Cheating is an act of lying, deception, fraud, trickery, imposture, or imposition. Cheating characteristically is employed to create an unfair advantage, usually in one's own interest, and often at the expense of others. Cheating implies the breaking of rules.

 

***

 

I will summarize the arguments you will hear shortly from Pats fans:

 

1) Everyone is doing it (without proof that anyone else has done this too during the Bellicheat years)

2) It doesn't help anyway (which is why Bellicheat decided to risk everything this year to cheat again after doing it for 7 years even after the league specifically told everyone don't do it)

3) Matt Walsh is a liar and cannot be trusted and even if he did tape the Rams last practice, Vermeil didn't mind so it's OK

4) Somehow it's Roger Clemen's fault

[FlaHawker 24]

I will summarize the arguments you will hear shortly from Pats fans:

 

1) Everyone is doing it (without proof that anyone else has done this too during the Bellicheat years)

2) It doesn't help anyway (which is why Bellicheat decided to risk everything this year to cheat again after doing it for 7 years even after the league specifically told everyone don't do it)

3) Matt Walsh is a liar and cannot be trusted

4) Somehow it's Roger Clemens fault

So do you really believe that the PATS win NO championships had they not "cheated"? And should the NFL consider this cheating as well:

 

Team A cuts PLAYER X. Team B, in Team As division, signs Player X only to cut him loose later in the season after playing Team A. Now do you think Team B was able to get signals and calls from Player X with regards to Team A? And what is the difference between this and taping a coach's signals?

 

I'm sorry but if you think only the Pats "spy", you are kidding yourself. I really do not understand the Steeler fan hatred towards the Pats.

[murf74 461]

So do you really believe that the PATS win NO championships had they not "cheated"? And should the NFL consider this cheating as well:

 

Team A cuts PLAYER X. Team B, in Team As division, signs Player X only to cut him loose later in the season after playing Team A. Now do you think Team B was able to get signals and calls from Player X with regards to Team A? And what is the difference between this and taping a coach's signals?

 

I'm sorry but if you think only the Pats "spy", you are kidding yourself. I really do not understand the Steeler fan hatred towards the Pats.

 

Why do you hate the Steelers?

 

Oh and read my other thread that said I will never claim that the Steelers win those 2 AFC Champ games they lost to the Pats even if the Pats didn't tape. They were better and made more plays.

[three out of four 0]

I will summarize the arguments you will hear shortly from Pats fans:

 

1) Everyone is doing it (without proof that anyone else has done this too during the Bellicheat years)

2) It doesn't help anyway (which is why Bellicheat decided to risk everything this year to cheat again after doing it for 7 years even after the league specifically told everyone don't do it)

3) Matt Walsh is a liar and cannot be trusted and even if he did tape the Rams last practice, Vermeil didn't mind so it's OK

4) Somehow it's Roger Clemen's fault

 

 

It's hard to argue with #3. Since Vermeil was not coaching the Rams that year, why would he mind?

 

[three out of four 0]

Looks like Belichick learned about this kind of stuff from Parcells

 

 

As the heat continues to rise regarding Spygate II, a reader has forwarded to us a link to a 1999 item from Mike Freeman, then of the New York Times and currently with CBSSports.com, regarding the possibility that the New York Jets (for whom Pats coach Bill Belichick worked at the time), might have been secretly videotaping . . . their own players . . . in the locker room.

 

The issue came up because an unnamed Jets defensive player entered a small room at the team’s practice facility, which contained a bank of video screens. Some of the monitors included images of the locker room.

 

“A lot of things around here have knocked me for a loop, but this is one of the biggest,” said the player. ”My first thought was, ‘Has the team been spying on us?’”

 

In Freeman’s article, NFLPA Executive Director Gene Upshaw said that he believes 25 percent of the league’s teams use hidden cameras in the locker room.

 

But Upshaw didn’t seem to be all that bothered by it.

 

“When I’m in Denver, in a meeting with the players at the Broncos’ facility, you see certain things in the room and know they’re not lights,” Upshaw said. “I know management is listening. When I’m in Cincinnati, I know Owner Mike Brown is listening. I don’t want to say how I know, but I know. But when it comes to this issue of cameras around the players, it’s not a big deal to me, because they are there for the security of our players, and obviously the safety of the players is a primary concern for me. I’d rather err on the side of caution, than have some nut come into the locker room and do something.”

 

But, Gene, are hidden cameras that no one knows about really going to deter a “nut” from doing anything?

 

Art Modell, who owned the Ravens at the time, confirmed Upshaw’s beliefs: ”Some teams are using surveillance equipment in the locker room, yes. But I’d fire the first guy who did that here. No video cameras, no audiotapes, no eavesdropping.”

 

”This is a sensitive issue,” Upshaw said. ”I’m sure it will be talked about a lot in the future.”

 

It hasn’t been. But given the current focus on things the Patriots did or didn’t do, let’s not forget that there are 31 other NFL franchises that might be doing plenty of things that they shouldn’t be doing, and that they merely haven’t gotten caught.

 

http://beta.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

[murf74 461]

It's hard to argue with #3. Since Vermeil was not coaching the Rams that year, why would he mind?

 

 

I don't know, ask the AP reporter who bothered asking his opinion....and I believe this has been used as an argument already to poo poo this scandal away.

[redtodd 7]

Obsession

[murf74 461]

Looks like Belichick learned about this kind of stuff from Parcells

As the heat continues to rise regarding Spygate II, a reader has forwarded to us a link to a 1999 item from Mike Freeman, then of the New York Times and currently with CBSSports.com, regarding the possibility that the New York Jets (for whom Pats coach Bill Belichick worked at the time), might have been secretly videotaping . . . their own players . . . in the locker room.

 

The issue came up because an unnamed Jets defensive player entered a small room at the team’s practice facility, which contained a bank of video screens. Some of the monitors included images of the locker room.

 

“A lot of things around here have knocked me for a loop, but this is one of the biggest,” said the player. ”My first thought was, ‘Has the team been spying on us?’”

 

In Freeman’s article, NFLPA Executive Director Gene Upshaw said that he believes 25 percent of the league’s teams use hidden cameras in the locker room.

 

But Upshaw didn’t seem to be all that bothered by it.

 

“When I’m in Denver, in a meeting with the players at the Broncos’ facility, you see certain things in the room and know they’re not lights,” Upshaw said. “I know management is listening. When I’m in Cincinnati, I know Owner Mike Brown is listening. I don’t want to say how I know, but I know. But when it comes to this issue of cameras around the players, it’s not a big deal to me, because they are there for the security of our players, and obviously the safety of the players is a primary concern for me. I’d rather err on the side of caution, than have some nut come into the locker room and do something.”

 

But, Gene, are hidden cameras that no one knows about really going to deter a “nut” from doing anything?

 

Art Modell, who owned the Ravens at the time, confirmed Upshaw’s beliefs: ”Some teams are using surveillance equipment in the locker room, yes. But I’d fire the first guy who did that here. No video cameras, no audiotapes, no eavesdropping.”

 

”This is a sensitive issue,” Upshaw said. ”I’m sure it will be talked about a lot in the future.”

 

It hasn’t been. But given the current focus on things the Patriots did or didn’t do, let’s not forget that there are 31 other NFL franchises that might be doing plenty of things that they shouldn’t be doing, and that they merely haven’t gotten caught.

 

http://beta.profootballtalk.com/category/rumor-mill/

 

Oh great, so the year the Parcell's lead Pats lost to the Packers they cheated their way to the Superbowl then too....the saga continues

 

But shoot I just read your post again more carefully....doesn't this just tell us that a coach was spying on his players in the locker room? I am confused how this relates to the cheating that the Pats did on the field from 2000 through 2007?

[FlaHawker 24]

Why do you hate the Steelers?

 

Oh and read my other thread that said I will never claim that the Steelers win those 2 AFC Champ games they lost to the Pats even if the Pats didn't tape. They were better and made more plays.

Wow!

 

1-I said nothing negative about the Steelers in my last post

 

2- You totally avoided my question about cheating scenario

 

3- You refused to address the Steeler fan hatred for the Pats

 

That's an 0-3 Murf!

[pittnthat 0]

My observations from this issue.

1. Flahawker uses the term "wow" for every response now to every post.

2. If any fan found out that their team was taped 4 times and 2 conference titles games they would be pissed.

3. Does anyone else have a problem with Goodell telling the Pats, " turn in everything you have" What kind of detective work is this.

4. Why destroy evidence, get a lock box. trust your security is better than whoever was supposed to watch the Pam Anderson and Tommy Lee tape.

5. If Spectar does not meet with Goodell this week then do we get to know any of these new details or does he keep it to himself forever.

6. No matter what we all think about this issue

A- It's far from over

B- My team has taken the high road with placing blame

 

Possible nugget---- Look for Doug Flutie to make a comment soon about how when he wore his helmet and got the feed that Brady got that he was amazed at how great the NE coaches were at guessing defenses and were able to prepare him for who was blitzing before the communication shut off to their helmets.

[murf74 461]

Wow!

 

1-I said nothing negative about the Steelers in my last post

 

2- You totally avoided my question about cheating scenario

 

3- You refused to address the Steeler fan hatred for the Pats

 

That's an 0-3 Murf!

 

1. You don't need to say anything, everyone knows you hate the Steelers and you did say something negative, Steeler fans being haters.

 

2. That is stupid, your example is legal.... Oh and your example gives you no in game benefit if the signals have changed which they would since the other team just signed your player. The fact that the Pats taped the Lions last season is proof enough that the cheating gives them an in game benefit...either that or they were preparing to play the Lions again in the Superbowl.

 

3. Steelers fans are not the lone haters. Do I really need to list the reasons? I guess cheating is OK with you now.

 

When did you change your mind about spygate, NFL cheating coverups? Flip flopping Flahawker couldn't stand to be on the same side as a Steeler fan.

[FlaHawker 24]

1. You don't need to say anything, everyone knows you hate the Steelers and you did say something negative, Steeler fans being haters.

 

2. That is stupid, your example is legal.... Oh and your example gives you no in game benefit if the signals have changed which they would since the other team just signed your player. The fact that the Pats taped the Lions last season is proof enough that the cheating gives them an in game benefit...either that or they were preparing to play the Lions again in the Superbowl.

 

3. Steelers fans are not the lone haters. Do I really need to list the reasons? I guess cheating is OK with you now.

 

When did you change your mind about spygate, NFL cheating coverups? Flip flopping Flahawker couldn't stand to be on the same side as a Steeler fan.

1- I asked why the hatred from Steelers fans towards that Pats and that some how equates to you as hatred for the Steeelrs players? Umm ok

 

2- I never asked if it was legal; I asked what is the difference? Oh yes I'm sure had the Pats not taped the Lions they would have been in trouble

 

3- Cheating is ok with me now? That indicates that cheating wasn't ok with me in the past and that would mean that I was against a specific act of cheating? And what cheating act would you be referring to? I've never changed my mind about spy gate. I've said from day 1, if the NFL really wants to get serious with this BS, they start with SB XL and then I might be interested in this Pat nonsense. What i find funny though is that when the Steelers are the beneficiaries of scandolous calls then the NFL and their cronies were on the money. Now that the Pats are involved the NFL is crooked. that's hypocritical Murf and you know it. When the cover up works in the Steelers favor everything is fine and dandy. When it looks like your hated rivals (I guess that pats are your rivals I mean you hate them so much) then the NFL is crooked. HYPOCRITE!!!! Fans like you are why the NFL gets away with their BS. You've got to call BS when you see it even if your team is the beneficiary, not just when it benefits teams you don't like.

 

So here's to you and your obsession with belichick and the Pats

 

Do I think the Pats cheated? Hell yes. Do I think all teams push the rules when it comes to this kind of stuff? Hell yes. Is the NFL crooked? To a degree. In the end will it matter? Hell no. Move along. Nothing to see here.

[FlaHawker 24]

My observations from this issue.

1. Flahawker uses the term "wow" for every response now to every post.

Hey Pittnshite. Glad to see you back! Well since you promised to shut up forever if I produced a certain article, I'm going to produce it here and hope that you will honor your word and shut up forever.

 

As a reminder, I told you that the NFL refs so focked up SB XL that the league was forced to change the way holding is called and you basically said that never happened. Well, here you go pally: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2380129

 

"NEW YORK -- The NFL is satisfied with its officiating but concerned that high-profile errors in the playoffs and Super Bowl left a bad impression.

So beginning next week at league meetings in Orlando, Fla., it will tweak a few rules, dealing mostly with player safety, offensive holding and false starts.

 

"Because of the magnitude of the games, there's an indictment of the system," Atlanta general manager Rich McKay, co-chairman of the league's competition committee, said Wednesday during a conference call."

 

No shut up forever!

[Bu7ch 0]

Hey Pittnshite. Glad to see you back! Well since you promised to shut up forever if I produced a certain article, I'm going to produce it here and hope that you will honor your word and shut up forever.

 

As a reminder, I told you that the NFL refs so focked up SB XL that the league was forced to change the way holding is called and you basically said that never happened. Well, here you go pally: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2380129

 

"NEW YORK -- The NFL is satisfied with its officiating but concerned that high-profile errors in the playoffs and Super Bowl left a bad impression.

So beginning next week at league meetings in Orlando, Fla., it will tweak a few rules, dealing mostly with player safety, offensive holding and false starts.

 

"Because of the magnitude of the games, there's an indictment of the system," Atlanta general manager Rich McKay, co-chairman of the league's competition committee, said Wednesday during a conference call."

 

No shut up forever!

 

 

Dude....you forgot the "wow"

 

[Saint Elistan 106]

So do you really believe that the PATS win NO championships had they not "cheated"?

 

Since the Patriots won three superbowls by a combined 9 points, I'm going to go with a most likely on that one...

[Captain Lou 0]

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Matt Walsh a team scout who was fired by the Pats in December of 2001 prior to the Pats - Rams

Super Bowl? If this is in fact the same guy, he never had anything to do with video while with the organization. Anyone know

if this is the case? Just curious................

[FlaHawker 24]

Dude....you forgot the "wow"

 

Dude you forgot the check

[Dan 59]

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Matt Walsh a team scout who was fired by the Pats in December of 2001 prior to the Pats - Rams

Super Bowl? If this is in fact the same guy, he never had anything to do with video while with the organization. Anyone know

if this is the case? Just curious................

 

The reports I've seen say '03. I don't know.

[pittnthat 0]

Hey Pittnshite. Glad to see you back! Well since you promised to shut up forever if I produced a certain article, I'm going to produce it here and hope that you will honor your word and shut up forever.

 

As a reminder, I told you that the NFL refs so focked up SB XL that the league was forced to change the way holding is called and you basically said that never happened. Well, here you go pally: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2380129

 

"NEW YORK -- The NFL is satisfied with its officiating but concerned that high-profile errors in the playoffs and Super Bowl left a bad impression.

So beginning next week at league meetings in Orlando, Fla., it will tweak a few rules, dealing mostly with player safety, offensive holding and false starts.

 

"Because of the magnitude of the games, there's an indictment of the system," Atlanta general manager Rich McKay, co-chairman of the league's competition committee, said Wednesday during a conference call."

 

No shut up forever!

 

So you put a quote about how holding was changed due to one play in SBXL. Then you post a quote that says" Errors in the PLAYOFFS and Sb" And somehow you win on this? Hey hooked on phonics, Playoffs is included in your quote twice. Also, in paragraph two you quote "Because of the magnitude of the GAMES"

Games, Not game Hillary.

wow,wow,wow,wow,wow.

If you haven't figured it out yet, your not gonna beat me in any arguments. Your just not smart enough. Hillary.

So I look forwad to seeing how Games mean one play in a game to your highness.

Also, high profile Errors(with an S) in the playoffs means to you, one play in one game that your broadcast team says they will get you every time for.

Spin away but your dead in the water. I just used your own quotes against you.

wow

[FlaHawker 24]

So you put a quote about how holding was changed due to one play in SBXL. Then you post a quote that says" Errors in the PLAYOFFS and Sb" And somehow you win on this? Hey hooked on phonics, Playoffs is included in your quote twice. Also, in paragraph two you quote "Because of the magnitude of the GAMES"

Games, Not game Hillary.

wow,wow,wow,wow,wow.

If you haven't figured it out yet, your not gonna beat me in any arguments. Your just not smart enough. Hillary.

So I look forwad to seeing how Games mean one play in a game to your highness.

Also, high profile Errors(with an S) in the playoffs means to you, one play in one game that your broadcast team says they will get you every time for.

Spin away but your dead in the water. I just used your own quotes against you.

wow

Did the NFL change the way holding is called? I'll answer for you, yes! Now what play may have caused that in the GAMES played during the SB and playoffs that year? Hmmmmm I wonder Are you now trying to give me the definition of is by talking about GAMES vs game?? (check out this clip; you'll feel right at home--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0) Good to see you are a man of your word! But we all know what you are! You've been pwned and are now talking about whether the word game is plural?? You keep denying this but have fun in your rant against the Pats. You are real credible, about as credible as Belichick!

 

 

You asked for an article in which the competition committee changed the holding call after the SB. (you claimed one didn't exist). I gave it you. You welched on your promise. Well-done!!

[pittnthat 0]

Did the NFL change the way holding is called? I'll answer for you, yes! Now what play may have caused that in the GAMES played during the SB and playoffs that year? Hmmmmm I wonder Are you now trying to give me the definition of is by talking about GAMES vs game?? (check out this clip; you'll feel right at home--http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4XT-l-_3y0) Good to see you are a man of your word! But we all know what you are! You've been pwned and are now talking about whether the word game is plural?? You keep denying this but have fun in your rant against the Pats. You are real credible, about as credible as Belichick!

You asked for an article in which the competition committee changed the holding call after the SB. (you claimed one didn't exist). I gave it you. You welched on your promise. Well-done!!

 

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welched on a promise. You state a rule change due to one game and one play. Now your stating you won as you quote they changed the rules after the entire playoffs? Just think about that for a minute(actually you better take 5 minutes).

 

Anyone who can read knows I win this spat. Your own words say SB and playoffs. So your right that it was changed 4 one play? Even for you in looneyville thats nuts on so many levels.

 

I hope you can post more data confirming my point and claiming victory though. Your scoring about as many points as your Hawks did in Pittsburgh this year.

[Captian America 0]

First let me state I will not get in a long debate about this but would like to express my feelings on this. I'm a long time Steeler fan which may confuse some for what I have to say. I think this is no big deal. If as a ball player would study game films during the week he would pretty much know what play is coming, probably why there are Pros and All Pros, with the All Pros putting in the extra time. If I tell you I'm going to run up the middle you still have to stop me, even though you know what I'm going to do. It's like a base runner on second base and he sees the catcher give the sign for a fastball he than relays the signal to the batter who knows that the next pitch is a fastball. The batter has to hit the ball he swings and misses strike three. Even though he knew what was coming he was unable to hit the ball. My point even if you might know the next play you still have to stop it in football. In the old days college's use to send scouts to games, now they just trade game films. So if each team has game films whats the difference if you tape a coach. It's true when teams call an offense play the coach hides his mouth because the defense might know the play and stop it. Let's play football like the old days without any microphones or signals and just send in a guard with each play and there would be no problem. As far as Sen. Specter goes why not investigate the rising gas prices and the billions of dollars of profits going to the big oil companies instead of something meaningless like spygate. I guess at best he will come up with a magic pass theory of Brady to Moss.

Like it or not people the Patriots are a good team with alot of big name players and that will give you plenty of wins. Whom here last summer when we looked at the Patriots' roster didn't pick them to win the Superbowl? Forget this issue as spying is and always will be a part of big business.

[FlaHawker 24]

First let me state I will not get in a long debate about this but would like to express my feelings on this. I'm a long time Steeler fan which may confuse some for what I have to say. I think this is no big deal.

I agree with you

[FlaHawker 24]

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welched on a promise. You state a rule change due to one game and one play. Now your stating you won as you quote they changed the rules after the entire playoffs? Just think about that for a minute(actually you better take 5 minutes).

 

Anyone who can read knows I win this spat. Your own words say SB and playoffs. So your right that it was changed 4 one play? Even for you in looneyville thats nuts on so many levels.

 

I hope you can post more data confirming my point and claiming victory though. Your scoring about as many points as your Hawks did in Pittsburgh this year.

 

If the NFL assessment, that the SB was a well-officiated game, is true as you suggest, why did the following happen:

 

1- The NFL changed the way in which Refs call holding (you can play word games all you want but anyone with a brain knows this was in direct refence to the Locklear hold).

 

2- Mike Holmgren was not fined or suspended for making disparaging remarks about the refs after the game (show me another player or coach who was not, at minimum, fined for the same offense)

 

3- Bill Leavy has not been involved in s Seahawk game at home or on the road since (now if the game was well-officiated as the NFL stated, why not stand on your convictions and let Leavy ref a Seahawk game?)

 

Here's the bottom line and try not to get caught up in your Clintonesque "games or game" argument nonsense. My beef with most of you Steeler guys is that you totally bought the NFL's claim that SB XL was well-officiated and went goose-stepping along with their explanations. Now, you all want us to believe that the NFL is crooked because of this tape destruction thing. Therefore, the NFL, which is now doing something fishy with reagrds to the Pats was clean and squeaky when some rather fishy officiating occured when your team was involved. You can't have it both ways. Either the NFL has some serious skeletons in its closet or it doesn't. Do you guys really think the NFL is going to take away all those Patriot SBs? Do you think they are really going to put an * next to each one? As fans, its like this steroid nonsense in baseball. the guys who have apologized and admitted a mistake have basically been forgiven and allowed to move on. Clowns like Bonds and Clemens who are denying their involvement look foolish. If the NFL had apologized and admitted the truth--the refs focked up that game beyond recognition-- I would have been satisfied, just as most fans would be satisfied now had the Pats and

the league admitted mistakes in this situation. Its all in the approach.

 

I'm officially done with this. Have fun with your Patriot hatred!!

[lickin_starfish 1,483]

Lets see how well the Patriots do next year since they can't cheat any more.

[pittnthat 0]

If the NFL assessment, that the SB was a well-officiated game, is true as you suggest, why did the following happen:

 

1- The NFL changed the way in which Refs call holding (you can play word games all you want but anyone with a brain knows this was in direct refence to the Locklear hold).

 

2- Mike Holmgren was not fined or suspended for making disparaging remarks about the refs after the game (show me another player or coach who was not, at minimum, fined for the same offense)

 

3- Bill Leavy has not been involved in s Seahawk game at home or on the road since (now if the game was well-officiated as the NFL stated, why not stand on your convictions and let Leavy ref a Seahawk game?)

 

Here's the bottom line and try not to get caught up in your Clintonesque "games or game" argument nonsense. My beef with most of you Steeler guys is that you totally bought the NFL's claim that SB XL was well-officiated and went goose-stepping along with their explanations. Now, you all want us to believe that the NFL is crooked because of this tape destruction thing. Therefore, the NFL, which is now doing something fishy with reagrds to the Pats was clean and squeaky when some rather fishy officiating occured when your team was involved. You can't have it both ways. Either the NFL has some serious skeletons in its closet or it doesn't. Do you guys really think the NFL is going to take away all those Patriot SBs? Do you think they are really going to put an * next to each one? As fans, its like this steroid nonsense in baseball. the guys who have apologized and admitted a mistake have basically been forgiven and allowed to move on. Clowns like Bonds and Clemens who are denying their involvement look foolish. If the NFL had apologized and admitted the truth--the refs focked up that game beyond recognition-- I would have been satisfied, just as most fans would be satisfied now had the Pats and

the league admitted mistakes in this situation. Its all in the approach.

 

I'm officially done with this. Have fun with your Patriot hatred!!

 

I'm glad your done with it. This does not change the fact that you hijack every thread Murph and I are in to bring up your own agenda. I'm glad I was able to turn your own quotes against you. Why don't we agree to save SBXL discussion(as if anyone on this board does not know your feelings by now) for new topics only.

It just get boaring hearing the same complaints no matter what the topic is. I'm sure people wanting to read about the Pats scandal that had new info this week do not want to listen to us for the 600th time.

If you want, just start a new thread every day on the front forum page that says Steelers cheated years ago. But for the sake of the the board do we have to hear it on every topic and everygame with a close call.

I would like to think if your team was taped during 2 NFC title games you just might have a strong oponion about that.

If not, then I'm sure members will love hearing--------

1. Ben did or didn't get in on 3rd down

2. Locklear did or didn't hold

3. Stevans fumble should have counted 4 my team

4. Hass blocked a guy low

5. Jackson did or didn't push off for the billionith time

We don't need a truce but can we just stick somewhat to the topic of each thread.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

murf, you may not be willing to say that the AFC Championship games would have gone different but I will. Anyone who watched that 2004 AFC championship game after the regular season game saw a Patriot team that either got exceptionally lucky or knew what plays Pittsburgh was running AND their defensive signals.

 

Bottomline is this; Goddell wants the materials from Walsh so he can burn them and put this to bed. Should ANY tape surface that confirms the Pats filming the Rams walkthrough, this goes nuclear. There's already a lawsuit filed on that game as it is and the NFL will lose untold millions in PR money for the game not being on the up and up. If they do produce the tape would Goddell be forced to vacate the Pats 01 SB? I doubt it but that's what the majority of true NFL fans will want.

 

Anyone who thinks BB was only taping Defensive signals needs to put the crack pipe down.

[shovelheadt 62]

If I am not mistaken, wasn't Matt Walsh a team scout who was fired by the Pats in December of 2001 prior to the Pats - Rams

Super Bowl? If this is in fact the same guy, he never had anything to do with video while with the organization. Anyone know

if this is the case? Just curious................

 

It's the same guy, but he didn't start out as a scout. He started in the video department. He was a scout for a very short time, didn't like it, didn't perform well at it and was thus fired. I remember him saying something about his region of responsibility was too small, a bunch of nowhere schools.

[Captain Lou 0]

Thanks for the info Shovel. I thought he was the same guy. And if I am not mistaken, the organization fired him in December prior to the pats-Rams Super Bowl. If this is also the case, he would have no reason to video a walk through which is basically a useless practice session IMO.

 

With regard to video taping in general, most NFL teams have done it from the private suites, stands etc. , and Bill should have

cooled this practice from the sideline after the letter had gone out to quit or be fined. Although the Pats were not the only team in the NFL to use sideline video taping, they were the ones who took it one game to far.

 

Also, with regard to the post above from the Steeler fan who feels that the Pats knew all of their plays in the AFC Championship game, I would just point out that the Patriots had run off 22 regular season wins in a row prior to that Halloween

evening, and about 8 starters did not play that day. I think all running backs were injured except a full back. That particular team had a ton of injuries but came back strong at the end of the season. The Steelers were a pound the ball team so it really was not toO difficult to defense them in the re-match. Just my observation. The Pats were a bEtter team that season IMO.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

Thanks for the info Shovel. I thought he was the same guy. And if I am not mistaken, the organization fired him in December prior to the pats-Rams Super Bowl. If this is also the case, he would have no reason to video a walk through which is basically a useless practice session IMO.

 

With regard to video taping in general, most NFL teams have done it from the private suites, stands etc. , and Bill should have

cooled this practice from the sideline after the letter had gone out to quit or be fined. Although the Pats were not the only team in the NFL to use sideline video taping, they were the ones who took it one game to far.

 

Also, with regard to the post above from the Steeler fan who feels that the Pats knew all of their plays in the AFC Championship game, I would just point out that the Patriots had run off 22 regular season wins in a row prior to that Halloween

evening, and about 8 starters did not play that day. I think all running backs were injured except a full back. That particular team had a ton of injuries but came back strong at the end of the season. The Steelers were a pound the ball team so it really was not toO difficult to defense them in the re-match. Just my observation. The Pats were a bEtter team that season IMO.

 

Hate to burst that bubble for the Pat fans, but this 'achievement' occurred in what will surely be known as 'The Cheating or * era'. All such accomplishments are hollow in ALOT of people's eyes. With the video taping going back to 2000, (and I'd wager not just Defensive signals) anyone pointing out ANY Patriot record, title or achievement must firmly attach a * to it. Sounds bad but that's what fruit cheating bears. A quote from Hines Ward in that championship game stated the Pats were calling out what the Steelers were going to run.

[murf74 461]

I'm officially done with this. Have fun with your Patriot hatred!!

 

Yeah, after 2 years of constantly bringing this up in the most obscure ways, you have finally decided to stop trying to change people's minds about a couple judgement penalties in a game played 2 years ago....sure.

 

Want to make a wager on that? You can't not talk about XL....you can't

 

WOW

[jgcrawfish 232]

There's a huge difference here between taping games, and taping signals during a game. Every coach will tell you they change their signals occasionally, if not frequently. However, when you tape a team's practice the day before a game, as is rumored with the Pats - Rams superbowl, there's no way to change those signals. The thing here is that Matt Walsh has a grudge, and his motivation for revenge might just be the fulcrum this whole thing sits on. I'm telling you, I distinctly remember the Belicheat days in Cleveland...dude got his arse handed to him regularly in the coaching department. Steelers fans were sad when he left. The only difference between Cleveland and New England is Paoli, the guy really can pick talent, and the Brownies didn't have somebody who could pick talent the same way. How Belicheat got so damned smart is still a mystery to me, but I believe that his breaking of the rules had a large part in it. There have also been rumors for years that the sideline to field communications for the QB and defensive signal caller for Pats opponents would cut out at the most curious and crucial times. The fun part to me in all of this is that for several years now the Pats have been, particularly by ESPN (Extensive Sucking of Patiots Nutsack), called the "model" franchise in all of football. Now, not so much since they're cheaters.

 

Now, back to FlaHawker...dude, seriously. Yes, calls were missed in that game, but it went both ways. And had the Seahawks won, somehow I think that you'd say it was a fairly called game too. Calls don't take away your boy Stevens drops, your boy Hass getting jittery and throwing a big INT, and don't take back those 75 yrds that Willie ran. It's time to let it go man.

 

We got 5...you?

[The Moz 69]

On the Pitt / Seattle thing -- I think the refs and the league wanted Pittsburgh to win and there was questionable calls during the game. However Seattle had chances and just blew them as well. The Djax TD was a clear push off and the right call was made ! should that call of been made in the superbowl when it is called maybe 25% of the nfl season - it could be argued - what can't be argued is the fact a penalty was commited. Was there a Holding call on the big play by Seattle - yes their was a hold and a penalty. However that call isn't made alot during the season and likley shouldn't have been made here. The Hasselbeck low block - looked like it did happen but the dumbass threw the pick in the first place. The Big Ben TD - it was really close at one angle it looked in on another it looked like he wasn't - judgement call - can't remember if he was originally called in - if he was the call should of stood a TD - if he wasn't then it should of stood as no TD.

 

I neither like or dislike either of those teams but IMO - the fans were jobbed as neither team played well and even though it was a close game was boring as fock. The refs did appear to look for reasons to throw flags aginst seattle though.

 

 

On NE Bellichick - I am pats fan and will say that if proven that spygate goes back to the superbowls and he did tape the Rams walkthrough he needs to step down for the good of the NFL and the New England franchise.

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

On NE Bellichick - I am pats fan and will say that if proven that spygate goes back to the superbowls and he did tape the Rams walkthrough he needs to step down for the good of the NFL and the New England franchise.

 

 

Part 1 has been accepted as fact; let Walsh testify and produce what he has and we'll see about Part 2.

 

Hats off to you Moz for demanding better for the team you support.

 

IMO BB has to go regardless to remove the cloud from the Patriots. I think that alone would quell the calls for the SBs to be vacated.

[Mad Brad 0]

Lets see how well the Patriots do next year since they can't cheat any more.

 

 

Dude... The entire thing was exposed after week #1 vs the Jets... They didn't cheat in 2007 and went 18-0... Expect more of the same in 2008 from NE... MB

[The Moz 69]

Part 1 has been accepted as fact; let Walsh testify and produce what he has and we'll see about Part 2.

 

Hats off to you Moz for demanding better for the team you support.

 

IMO BB has to go regardless to remove the cloud from the Patriots. I think that alone would quell the calls for the SBs to be vacated.

 

If it was anyone else he would be gone already. it's tough if you are an owner that has one of the greatest coaches to roam a sideline and you already know if he is there your team will compete for title every season.

 

As a Pats fan I will say he needs to go if proven it goes back a long way - if not He should be able to stay. Though i would consider regardless of the outcome moving BB into a Front office job like Parcells has right now - get him out of the spotlight but still in control.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

IMO BB has to go regardless to remove the cloud from the Patriots. I think that alone would quell the calls for the SBs to be vacated.

I am pretty sure he retired during the SB. I do not recall seeing him on the field at the end.