Tough Commish question please respond

[Dr.Grimm 0]

This is right and exactly why Team C should not be getting screwed because of someone else's mistake. The "bush league" aspect of all of this is the fact a team, no fault of their own, is missing a playoff spot that shouldn't.

+1

 

If everything said is true, especially this part:

 

I went back and looked and there were no other times when someone started a QB that threw for a 2 pt. conversion except the week in question and actually now this week a guy started Aaron Rodgers.

 

I think the commish should make this right. It seems beyond belief to screw a team over because of a mistake.

 

Definitely want to hear how this plays out.

[enefelcom 0]

ouch. this hurts, but i (as commish) would have to give it to him. it's part of your league's long-time rules.

 

but here's the unfortunate kicker - commish would have to look for every other 2-pt conversion unless you knew 100% that it wouldn't make a difference elsewhere. if it was the league's 1st season, i'd say tough crap on team C. but if you guys used 2-pts conversions for 6 years & the commish messed up, it's his mess to clean... imo.

 

no one looked for a 2-pt rule change because everyone FAIRLY assumed that it wouldn't be there. in such an established league, commish has to make good on his error - no matter what that means. i'd ask the other teams to waive the 2-pointers & whichever ones did not agree... tough on me. one thing though -- you can probably retro-apply the scoring change. if your league allows for that, this is an EASY decision. you go back to the old un-vetoed rule. good luck. that sucks.

 

 

 

Brief history on the league. 12 team total pot $1500, free pickups and trades very competitive. 1st takes 65% pot. Our playoffs start in week#14 so this was our last week. There was a close race in the one division to make playoffs. Team A was 7-4-1 Team B was 7-5 and Team C was 6-6 with most total fantasy points. Our tie breaker is team with most fantasy points. Team A played Team B and needed to win in order for Team C who also had to win to make playoffs. Well, Team A lost, and Team C won so it appeared Team C would be eliminated from Playoffs.

 

Well this is where is gets hairy. Team C apparently went back and hand scored (we use CBS sportsline) all of his, Team A and Team B scores looking for any possible errors. Low and behold he found one. The week Team A got his tie, C found that Team A actually should have lost because CBS did not credit rivers with his 2 pt. conversion. When you go back and score it, sure enough he's right. This would give Team A a loss and tie him with C for record and Team C would get in to the playoffs by points.

 

When the commish investigated this he found that somehow at some point he accidentaly??? made QB 2 pt. conversions 0 thus why CBS scored it this way. Despite having 2 pt. passing conversions the past 6 years of league and not vote to change it, the commissh states he will not change it because thats how he had it in the rules because he at some point made a mistake. He acknowledges that he made a error, and knows what is right, but will not change it.

 

My question is, what would the rest of you all do. Please give me honest opinions, im not one to take offense and begin attacking people. Just want everyone to have a fair shot.

[skiman4235 0]

Havent heard anything yet, commish is keeping this one quiet for right now. The responses still remain pretty much 50-50.

[jaxjag 43]

Whats most important is that the right decision is made in the end. If your league has always awarded 2 point conversions and that was the assumption all along this year, then the commish should award the 2 points, admit it was a mistake and take the heat. While he will take crap and endure some embarrassment, this is the lot of us commishes, and thats why being a commish is such a hassle frankly.

 

Agreed. This is a mistake... not a rule change.

[sperri40 12]

Sounds very strange to me...

 

We use Sportsline (have done so for years) and it's not like you're clicking around and...oops, you accidentally change your scoring system. Sounds like BS to me.

 

I think first of all, his response is unacceptable. If I understand correctly, he is saying, 'it's a mistake, deal with it.' Um...ok, not when people's money is on the line. A responsible and honest commish just doesn't do that.

 

Now, ethics aside...I think since it a scoring change was never voted on and you all thought everything was status quo, the 2-pt conversion needs to be figured into this game and EVERY other game that had a 2-pt conv. It should be the commish's job to do this since he f'ed it up, but he obviously can't be trusted...so you guys need to figure out that aspect.

 

The bottom line is that a 'mistake' (if that's what he wants to call it) transpired and it needs to be fixed, not glossed over. This isn't a free league and people's money is at stake...he needs to be honest and also take some responsibility in his role as commish.

[TD Ryan2 314]

you know, we usually get a lot of dumb, bullshiat "dilemmas".

 

this one's pretty tough.

hopefully all of the owners in your league are level headed and can work this out.

 

The fact that this is the FIRST TIME THIS SEASON the 2pt/QB conversion has even come up sways me a bit towards changing the score and "making it right" instead of just accepting the mistake.

 

but there are definitely 2 legit sides here and I don't know which one is right.

 

 

our league has 2 provisions which would have helped to avoid this:

1. no changing scores/stats after the next week's games have started. If there's a mistake and it isn't caught, you live with it.

 

2. live and die by the rulings of the website. We were a pen and paper league for years and once we went electronic, we all agreed that the website would have the final say/rules, not our old league charter/rulebook.

[Jokers 0]

Once the next week's games start, the scores are final. This is a rule in the leagues I'm in and is fairly standard.

[yostevo 0]

Sounds very strange to me...

 

We use Sportsline (have done so for years) and it's not like you're clicking around and...oops, you accidentally change your scoring system. Sounds like BS to me.

 

I think first of all, his response is unacceptable. If I understand correctly, he is saying, 'it's a mistake, deal with it.' Um...ok, not when people's money is on the line. A responsible and honest commish just doesn't do that.

 

Now, ethics aside...I think since it a scoring change was never voted on and you all thought everything was status quo, the 2-pt conversion needs to be figured into this game and EVERY other game that had a 2-pt conv. It should be the commish's job to do this since he f'ed it up, but he obviously can't be trusted...so you guys need to figure out that aspect.

 

The bottom line is that a 'mistake' (if that's what he wants to call it) transpired and it needs to be fixed, not glossed over. This isn't a free league and people's money is at stake...he needs to be honest and also take some responsibility in his role as commish.

 

Good post. The more I read your post the more it reiterated my stance because I didn't even consider the possible fradulent commish angle here. Having been a commish w/CBS for about 8 years now, it would be damn near impossible for me to change that 2 pt. scoring on accident. Think about it. If there were no scoring changes to be made and nothing was voted on then he would have had to physically and knowingly change a 2 to a 0 in that particular column. Definitely fishy and with the commish's response, it almost sounds like he's defensive because he knows he's been had.

[Casey71 0]

First place overall.

 

QB: Cutler

RB: Portis, Gore

WR: Wayne, Boldin

TE: Z. Miller

K: Gostowski

D: Steelers

[bintine 0]

In the league I commish I made a mistake for determining playoff ties. I had it set at head to head when I really wanted to set it up as total points. I realized this mistake after week 7 (i think) and informed the league of my intention when I set it up. I put it to a league vote with the end result that it stayed as head to head. You could always do a vote in the league to determine whether it should stay as 0 or 2 points. This takes the burden off of one person and puts it onto the league. In this way i think there will probably be less hard feelings.

 

 

Cheers

[yostevo 0]

First place overall.

 

QB: Cutler

RB: Portis, Gore

WR: Wayne, Boldin

TE: Z. Miller

K: Gostowski

D: Steelers

 

This helps, thanks.

[skiman4235 0]

UPDATE

 

Received an e-mail from the commish stating he is leaving it the way it is, no change with no explanation other than he said it was like that all year, so to bad! Pure BS if you ask me, the commish is screwing someone out of the playoffs and alls he says is "to bad"? WTF

 

The e-mails to the commish have been private at this point, I think its time to let the league in on this and see what they have to say. Im affraid though that people dont want Team C in the playoffs as his team is pretty strong so they may vote with that in mind. Either way, its time everyone knows.

 

Again, Ill keep ya posted.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Good post. The more I read your post the more it reiterated my stance because I didn't even consider the possible fradulent commish angle here. Having been a commish w/CBS for about 8 years now, it would be damn near impossible for me to change that 2 pt. scoring on accident. Think about it. If there were no scoring changes to be made and nothing was voted on then he would have had to physically and knowingly change a 2 to a 0 in that particular column. Definitely fishy and with the commish's response, it almost sounds like he's defensive because he knows he's been had.

 

How could the commish possibly be fraudulent here? He accidentally changed the 2 point conversion for QB's from 2 to 0 and its been like that ALL year. Did he secretly know that teams he played against this year would have QB's that got 2 point conversions while his QB's never would have any. Ultimately gaining him an advantage. NO NO NO. It was a mistake. From what I gather the commish isn't even involved in this tie breaker. If he was then it would get dicier. But he has nothing to gain unless I missed something. It's the league's RESPONSIBILITY to review the rules before every season and point out anything they don't agree with or anything that is incorrect. The league failed to do this. I think the league must live with the LEAGUE'S mistake and not go back and try to retroactively change scores from many weeks ago.

[yostevo 0]

How could the commish possibly be fraudulent here? He accidentally changed the 2 point conversion for QB's from 2 to 0 and its been like that ALL year.

The OP stated he thought the mistake was made in the preseason which means he doesn't really know when the change occurred at all.

Did he secretly know that teams he played against this year would have QB's that got 2 point conversions while his QB's never would have any. Ultimately gaining him an advantage. NO NO NO. It was a mistake.

Because we really don't know when it occurred you can't rule out the possibility of a fraudulent commish but there isn't enough evidence to accuse anyone of anything.

From what I gather the commish isn't even involved in this tie breaker. If he was then it would get dicier. But he has nothing to gain unless I missed something. It's the league's RESPONSIBILITY to review the rules before every season and point out anything they don't agree with or anything that is incorrect. The league failed to do this. I think the league must live with the LEAGUE'S mistake and not go back and try to retroactively change scores from many weeks ago.

I've been running the same league for 16 years and I would not hold my league responsibile for something I apparently did. They have their responsibilities and I have mine. We are both obligated to keep up our end of the bargain. Bottomline is that the commish failed here but only Team C pays the price.

[roroco 75]

BTW... Who here ever has a week were they are tied - or even lose by just a couple of points - and they do not check to see if the score is right? I would assume most of us are too competitive to just accept a tie without looking into it further.

 

The commish did the right thing here. If you do not have a rule book, then the scoring system set up on CBS at the beginning of the year is law. Everyone can see the scoring system and objections should be made up front and not post-fact.

[zaurg 0]

I agree with your Commish however a real Commish would step up, let the entire league know what's going on, and provide more of an explanation for why he is not changing the scoring rules in Week 14. It's way too late. You can't change (retroactively) scoring rules in Week 14.

[junk 0]

Ive been commish for 7-8 years and have had some issues as well over the years...

mostly easier to resolve than this one...

 

 

As an above poster did, I would compare this to the PITT TD that wasnt scored vs. the Chargers, and the Fumble by Cutler that wasnt one vs. the Chargers also...

They are horrible mistakes, but because of the chain reaction team mgmt etc, i dont think you can change this after the fact....

 

HOWEVER, i would also atone for the mistake by either crediting the affected team for this season's fee, or a free entry for next season.

 

I would also put in a rule that states scores can only be modified for a week after the game....

 

Good luck, it is a tough tough situation...

[killersquids 3]

Here's my logical reasoning for not changing the score....if team A had that loss instead of a tie (and he knew about it that week), he might have done things differently in the last few weeks. Team A might have made a few trades to bolster his chances of making the playoffs vs sitting tight.

 

If the commish went back and changed the score, team A would be getting screwed to some degree b/c now he would be out of the playoffs.

 

The commish did a terrible job of "explaining" his decision, but it was the right thing to do.

[rspark23 0]

Brief history on the league. 12 team total pot $1500, free pickups and trades very competitive. 1st takes 65% pot. Our playoffs start in week#14 so this was our last week. There was a close race in the one division to make playoffs. Team A was 7-4-1 Team B was 7-5 and Team C was 6-6 with most total fantasy points. Our tie breaker is team with most fantasy points. Team A played Team B and needed to win in order for Team C who also had to win to make playoffs. Well, Team A lost, and Team C won so it appeared Team C would be eliminated from Playoffs.

 

Well this is where is gets hairy. Team C apparently went back and hand scored (we use CBS sportsline) all of his, Team A and Team B scores looking for any possible errors. Low and behold he found one. The week Team A got his tie, C found that Team A actually should have lost because CBS did not credit rivers with his 2 pt. conversion. When you go back and score it, sure enough he's right. This would give Team A a loss and tie him with C for record and Team C would get in to the playoffs by points.

 

When the commish investigated this he found that somehow at some point he accidentaly??? made QB 2 pt. conversions 0 thus why CBS scored it this way. Despite having 2 pt. passing conversions the past 6 years of league and not vote to change it, the commissh states he will not change it because thats how he had it in the rules because he at some point made a mistake. He acknowledges that he made a error, and knows what is right, but will not change it.

 

My question is, what would the rest of you all do. Please give me honest opinions, im not one to take offense and begin attacking people. Just want everyone to have a fair shot.

 

Really tough situation. But if 2 pt conversions were set for 0 then they should stay that way. Retroactively changing rules could really screw your standings up. Owners should be looking at their scores each week making sure everything is being tallied properly. Good luck.

[skiman4235 0]

UPDATE FOR THOSE WHO ARE FOLLOWING!!

 

The league has been made aware and right now its about 50-50 most of the points people brought up here are being brought up there. The commish has sent an e-mail to Team A asking him if he would consider giving up his playoff position! Things could get interesting. Sorry for boring the rest of you, just following up for the folks that have helped with advice.

[Dr.Grimm 0]

UPDATE FOR THOSE WHO ARE FOLLOWING!!

 

The league has been made aware and right now its about 50-50 most of the points people brought up here are being brought up there. The commish has sent an e-mail to Team A asking him if he would consider giving up his playoff position! Things could get interesting. Sorry for boring the rest of you, just following up for the folks that have helped with advice.

 

I for one want the updates. This is a very interesting situation and I would like to know how this all turns out. So keep them coming.

 

After seeing the Pats fan check in everyday for what seems like an eternity, don't see how anyone could possible complain about a thread being boring.

[skiman4235 0]

There is a YES/NO vote put up on the league message board. Majority wins, if YES Team C makes it in, if NO Team A makes it in and Team C is effectively screwed. The vote ends tommorrow at 10am.

 

Alls I can say is at least the league is going to have a say in it, either way people are gonna be pissed, but at least the person who made the mistake ISNT making the decision by himself!!!!

 

Tommorrow will be my last post on this subject letting you guys know the final decision! All units stand-by:)LOL

[ERZER 0]

Pretty tough one.

 

I say the rules are posted on the site at the beginning of the year

All owners are responsible to know the scoring rules; despite intention, the rules were set

Every owner is responsible (as someone said) to check their scores; personally team C suspected something or knew of this and just waited to see if it would help him or hurt him down the line.

 

All of the above equates to "so sorry, no changes"......unless

 

Rules are actually posted as official rules (for this season) or as "voted" on by all members some time ago and there hasn't been another vote to change them; in that case, the league should abide by the "official rules" vice the settings as set up on CBS because the screwed up.

[Mephisto 15]

It would be dicier if the error did affect other games, but since it apparently did not, no harm no foul and I agree with you.

 

 

It doesn't matter to me whether other games were affected or not. Ultimately, you want to make sure you hit the post-season with the correct scores and standings.

 

An owner, well into this season, caught a mistake in how I set up some DST scoring. We all know and understand how the scoring is supposed to be, therefore, there is no argument against fixing it during the regular season, no matter how many games are affected and no matter how far into the regular season it is eventually caught. I fixed it, period. This notion that you "have to live with it" is complete bullsh!t. As long as it is discovered and corrected before the playoff games actually get underway - the right and proper thing to do is FIX IT. A data entry error should not be left to "ride" when it affects the eventual outcome of the game, especially in a money league.

 

If everyone understood what the scoring set-up was to be for a given category or categories, there is simply no legitimate reason not re-set the scoring set-up properly and let the game scores from prior weeks re-adjust to reflect what the scoring system was designed to be. Not only are the potential game implications, there are potential tiebreaker implications.

 

It doesn't matter who is at fault or whose responsibility it ultimately was. You fix the data entry error. You don't say, "I found a flaw in the league that affects the potential outcomes of the entire season with YOUR money at stake, and I'm not fixing it." You make it right because it's a matter of making an electronic adjustment that can be done in seconds, if not minutes.

 

I also assisted my brother in correcting a data entry error in week 9 of his season. No one argued the change despite the retroactive adjustments to the games (have no idea if it actually affected the outcome of games). It was a mistake that needed to be fixed to make the league "right." Leaving it "wrong" is dumb as are every single bullsh!t excuse I've read in this thread for not doing it.

[skiman4235 0]

Mephisto very nice post your words echo my thoughts EXACTLY. But anyways........THE FINAL VERDICT IS IN!!!

 

The League voted against making the change, so Team C has been eliminated from the playoffs. I truly believe that many of the league members voted based on the strength of Team C's team and potential affects it could have on them if in the playoffs. This is a 12 man league. Ill list team C for ya you make your judgement.

 

Team C

 

Cutler, Garcia

Addai (Traded W. Parker and Holt early in season after Holts 1 good game and before parker got hurt)

Barber (Fargas, Benson, Booker)

A. Johnson

B. Marshall (V. jackson, H. Ward)

T. Gonzo

Akers

Vikings and Jets

 

Either way guys, Team C was the minority and had a lot of things against him, but again my GUT tells me that at least ALL playoff teams voted no for the above listed reason. I just dont think this should have come to a vote, but of well.

[DC 9]

Ouch! I'm commish of my long-standing league and this one is clear cut imo. You cannot change the outcome of a game once next week's games start (much less weeks later). It is the owner's job to check scores of a close matchup. Whenver my matchup is within a couple of points, I always check the stats myself. It is inexcusable (and I don't really feel sorry for him) for an owner not to check the stats for a tie game!!

 

I would go in and change the scoring from this point forward to award 2 pts for 2-pt conversions.

 

 

This is the one I agree with. If a team doesn't challenge the scoring by the time the next week starts, then it is a dead issue. Change the settings moving forward and people learn the lesson to be diligent abouot checking the accuracy of their own team's scoring. Case closed.

[donhaas 18]

It doesn't matter to me whether other games were affected or not. Ultimately, you want to make sure you hit the post-season with the correct scores and standings.

 

An owner, well into this season, caught a mistake in how I set up some DST scoring. We all know and understand how the scoring is supposed to be, therefore, there is no argument against fixing it during the regular season, no matter how many games are affected and no matter how far into the regular season it is eventually caught. I fixed it, period. This notion that you "have to live with it" is complete bullsh!t. As long as it is discovered and corrected before the playoff games actually get underway - the right and proper thing to do is FIX IT. A data entry error should not be left to "ride" when it affects the eventual outcome of the game, especially in a money league.

 

If everyone understood what the scoring set-up was to be for a given category or categories, there is simply no legitimate reason not re-set the scoring set-up properly and let the game scores from prior weeks re-adjust to reflect what the scoring system was designed to be. Not only are the potential game implications, there are potential tiebreaker implications.

 

It doesn't matter who is at fault or whose responsibility it ultimately was. You fix the data entry error. You don't say, "I found a flaw in the league that affects the potential outcomes of the entire season with YOUR money at stake, and I'm not fixing it." You make it right because it's a matter of making an electronic adjustment that can be done in seconds, if not minutes.

 

I also assisted my brother in correcting a data entry error in week 9 of his season. No one argued the change despite the retroactive adjustments to the games (have no idea if it actually affected the outcome of games). It was a mistake that needed to be fixed to make the league "right." Leaving it "wrong" is dumb as are every single bullsh!t excuse I've read in this thread for not doing it.

 

I've been going back and forth, but I generally agree with this post.....

What if the mistake costed somebody 7 games instead of one....? Would you still just ignore it and say "oopsadaisy.... sorry!"?

A mistake is a mistake is a mistake

Ignoring it is the easy thing to do; but not the right thing.

I don't think it effects the lineup setting of the other team whether he's 7-4-1 or 7-5.... it wouldn't for me, anyways. Every week I play the guys who have the best chance of doing well for my team..... but then again, I don't believe in the "cancel out theory" and others like a lot of you guys

 

It's all about doing the right thing.

Unless you have a rule that mistakes must be caught by a certain time...... which doesn't seem to be the case.....

 

Team C has a playoff team according to that league's rules..... he should be allowed to advance....

[shutdown 40]

Sounds very strange to me...

 

We use Sportsline (have done so for years) and it's not like you're clicking around and...oops, you accidentally change your scoring system. Sounds like BS to me.

 

I think first of all, his response is unacceptable. If I understand correctly, he is saying, 'it's a mistake, deal with it.' Um...ok, not when people's money is on the line. A responsible and honest commish just doesn't do that.

 

Now, ethics aside...I think since it a scoring change was never voted on and you all thought everything was status quo, the 2-pt conversion needs to be figured into this game and EVERY other game that had a 2-pt conv. It should be the commish's job to do this since he f'ed it up, but he obviously can't be trusted...so you guys need to figure out that aspect.

 

The bottom line is that a 'mistake' (if that's what he wants to call it) transpired and it needs to be fixed, not glossed over. This isn't a free league and people's money is at stake...he needs to be honest and also take some responsibility in his role as commish.

 

 

Actually I had a similar issue with CBS this year. I have scoring ranges set for Defensive Points allowed. I had the following ranges set

0

1-6

7-13

14-19

28-34

35+

 

I had noting set for 20-27 because no points are awarded or deducted. This setting had worked for several years.

 

This year it began awarding points from the 14 - 19 range for the 20 - 27 range. Someone finally noticed this in week 3 and it changed the result of a week 1 game. I had to add the range for 20 - 27 with a zero points value to make the scoring work.

[shutdown 40]

This is the one I agree with. If a team doesn't challenge the scoring by the time the next week starts, then it is a dead issue. Change the settings moving forward and people learn the lesson to be diligent abouot checking the accuracy of their own team's scoring. Case closed.

 

 

If you re-read the scenario you'll see that the team missing the playoffs was not the team who's game was impacted by this. The result of a game between two OTHER teams is keeping him out of the playoffs. Even if he checked HIS scores every week he wouldn't have caught this. Are you saying owners should check EVERY score of EVERY game each week? I disagree with that philosophy, the scoring system should have been correct from the start. As it was not, it should be corrected.

[Stewburtx8 67]

If you re-read the scenario you'll see that the team missing the playoffs was not the team who's game was impacted by this. The result of a game between two OTHER teams is keeping him out of the playoffs. Even if he checked HIS scores every week he wouldn't have caught this. Are you saying owners should check EVERY score of EVERY game each week? I disagree with that philosophy, the scoring system should have been correct from the start. As it was not, it should be corrected.

 

 

No he is not expected to check the scoring of every single game every week. BUT he should be expected to read the rules and scoring settings BEFORE The draft every year. Do other leagues not do this? This the first thing the commish of all 4 of my leagues says EVERY year. He says the league is set up, please read over the rules on the site and the scoring system, please let me know of anything that is incorrect, and please come to the draft with any ideas or rules or scoring that you would like to vote on to have changed. THE END. If the other 9 or 11 or whatever owners in the league do this, which they should, then this mistake would of been caught by someone before the season. I just can't believe people join a league for money and put EVERYTHING on the commishioner, like he is perfect and can't make a mistake. I also can't believe leagues don't review rules, settings, etc, EVERY year. Even if nothing is changed, we still end up voting on something new or old subjects every single year in all of my leagues. This is why i would vote to not retroactively change the scoring. This was not just a mistake made by the commishioner, it was a mistake made by the whole league because no one noticed it until Week 13 of the season. Just my opinion, but my experiences lead me to this conclusion.