Cutler requests to be traded.

[Mad Brad 0]

Just a girl in men's clothing... MB

[Mad Brad 0]

How do you let something like this get out of hand with your franchise QB? I mean, these guys aren't exactly easy to find. Alex Smith, Joey Harrington, Ryan Leaf - stud QB's are a crap-shoot. And you are a brand new head coach and you alienate your starting QB? Maybe I could understand someone like Parcells pulling this - he's got the background to tell people how things are going to be. I don't know who's fault it is, but the Broncos should just suck it up and try to get back on Cutler's good side. Yeah, he's under contract. But what else does that team have if Cutler isn't around this year - WR likely suspended, no running game, and a crap defence. Cutler is the only thing making that team competitive.

 

 

This just in from the real world wire... THEY ARE NOT COMPETITIVE... People this is NOT the John Elway era broncos not even close... Dysfunctional is the best word I can find to describe them... Shitty is another word I can find... MB

[LordOpie 0]

This just in from the real world wire... THEY ARE NOT COMPETITIVE... People this is NOT the John Elway era broncos not even close... Dysfunctional is the best word I can find to describe them... Shitty is another word I can find... MB

He's better than Elway, so if they could just field a decent defense, it'd be a completely different story.

[TUM301 10]

He's better than Elway, so if they could just field a decent defense, it'd be a completely different story.

[Sho Nuff 720]

He's better than Elway, so if they could just field a decent defense, it'd be a completely different story.

 

No...he is really not better than Elway.

And please save bringing up numbers from Elway's first few years.

[kmbryant09 1]

No...he is really not better than Elway.

And please save bringing up numbers from Elway's first few years.

 

Why? The only fair comparisons would be at their respective points in their careers. I'm not saying Cutler will develop the winners mentality comparable to Elway, but I dont think Cutler is the reason the Broncos haven't been successful. I mean, Peyton Manning didn't have a winning record his first 2-3 years as a starter, and he turned out alright

[Walter34 3]

Why? The only fair comparisons would be at their respective points in their careers. I'm not saying Cutler will develop the winners mentality comparable to Elway, but I dont think Cutler is the reason the Broncos haven't been successful. I mean, Peyton Manning didn't have a winning record his first 2-3 years as a starter, and he turned out alright

 

Matt Ryan was the greatest qb in the history of the game ... after one pass.

[Phurfur 70]

Why? The only fair comparisons would be at their respective points in their careers. I'm not saying Cutler will develop the winners mentality comparable to Elway, but I dont think Cutler is the reason the Broncos haven't been successful. I mean, Peyton Manning didn't have a winning record his first 2-3 years as a starter, and he turned out alright

 

 

No you said he was better than Elway!

[Sho Nuff 720]

Why? The only fair comparisons would be at their respective points in their careers. I'm not saying Cutler will develop the winners mentality comparable to Elway, but I dont think Cutler is the reason the Broncos haven't been successful. I mean, Peyton Manning didn't have a winning record his first 2-3 years as a starter, and he turned out alright

 

So you think the NFL is the same then as it is now in terms of passing?

You think the teams they are playing for and against are the same?

 

Cutler may very well end up near Elway...but to claim he is better than Elway (and not even say he is better than Elway was when he started)...is completely ludicrous.

[parrot 789]

When Cutler's DEF holds teams to 30 points or less, he's 14-7.

 

In other words, when the Denver DEF is merely bad, as opposed to horrific, he wins 67% of his games. To look at his win-loss overall and not really look at the details is a disservice to yourself in making such statements.

 

If my Broncos could field a 20th ranked DEF, he'd make the playoffs regularly. They say DEF wins championships, so if he had just an average DEF, wouldn't y'all be impressed with how well the team did? AZ made it to the superbowl with the 19th ranked DEF. Denver's DEF ranked 29th.

 

Any comments about how bad Jay is?

 

It looks to me like Denver would still be losing a lot of the games they have lost even if their defense was better. Denver has lost 17 games in Cutler's first two full years as a starter, in only four of those games have they been within a touchdown of the opponent at the end of the game. Yeah, a lot of that is on the D, but some of it is on the O as well, as they have not been a particularly good scoring offense with Cutler at the helm. In the last two years Denver has losses of;

 

41-3

44-7

31-13

23-3

41-7

31-10

30-10

52-21

 

Yeah, those aren't stellar defensive performances, but the offensive performances are nothing to write home about either.

[kmbryant09 1]

Matt Ryan was the greatest qb in the history of the game ... after one pass.

Thats exactly what im NOT saying. Im saying you can't argue Matt Ryan had one of the most successful rookie QB campaigns in recent memory. But who knows what will happen in the next 5-10 years. He could turn into the next Joe Montana or he could turn into the next Jake Plummer, who knows. So why does everyone write off Cutler after 2 good statistical seasons just because he doesnt have a winning record?

[kmbryant09 1]

No you said he was better than Elway!

 

I actually didn't say anything about Cutler and Elway, that was my first post on the topic. I just think its unfair to say someone who has 37 career starts isnt a good starting QB because he hasnt lived up to a legendary, 2-SuperBowl winning QB.

[kmbryant09 1]

So you think the NFL is the same then as it is now in terms of passing?

You think the teams they are playing for and against are the same?

 

Cutler may very well end up near Elway...but to claim he is better than Elway (and not even say he is better than Elway was when he started)...is completely ludicrous.

 

I didnt say Cutler is or will be better than Elway...I just mean you can't compare Elways 2 superbowl rings to Cutler. Everyone writes of QBs in their first year or two as a starter. In that case, Peyton Manning woulda been outta the league. Besides, Cutler has good #s through 2+ years as the starter. This past season, he had no defense, missed his starting WR for 2 games, had his best 112 RBs go down to injury, etc. I'm not saying this guy is the next Elway, but if I was a broncos fan, I'd want Cutler playing for my team next year.

[wiffleball 4,797]

This just in from the real world wire... THEY ARE NOT COMPETITIVE... People this is NOT the John Elway era broncos not even close... Dysfunctional is the best word I can find to describe them... Shitty is another word I can find... MB

 

2nd best Offense in the league. Better numbers than Elway at this point is his career - and a SHIIT defense. - Can't blame Cutler for that.

[wiffleball 4,797]

It looks to me like Denver would still be losing a lot of the games they have lost even if their defense was better. Denver has lost 17 games in Cutler's first two full years as a starter, in only four of those games have they been within a touchdown of the opponent at the end of the game. Yeah, a lot of that is on the D, but some of it is on the O as well, as they have not been a particularly good scoring offense with Cutler at the helm. In the last two years Denver has

 

 

Man, Parrot, I thought you were smarter than this. When the OTHER team is on the field 4 mnutes for every ONE you get, it's a little tough to rack up points.

[parrot 789]

Man, Parrot, I thought you were smarter than this. When the OTHER team is on the field 4 mnutes for every ONE you get, it's a little tough to rack up points.

The last time I checked each team usually gets about the same number of offensive possessions in a game. When teams are scoring against them at the clip they were in a number of those games, the offense is clearly getting plenty of opportunities to do damage of their own, and just not succeeding. Cutler has a good line, very good receivers, and a good running game. If he's such an awesome QB, why can Denver not score with just about any team in the league, regardless of what his D is doing?

 

When I look at score like 41-3, 44-7, 23-3, 41-7... I see team FAIL!s not just defensive FAIL!s.

[kmbryant09 1]

Can't argue with the #'s:

 

Offense:

16th in the league in scoring

2nd in yardage

3rd in passing yardage

 

Defense:

30th in points allowed

29th in yards allowed (26th against the pass, 27th against the run)

 

 

I think part of Cutler's gunslinging mentality stems from the HORRIBLE defense he has behind him. Similar to Manning and the Colts from a few years ago, Cutler knows he needs to score on almost every possession to try and keep pace with the other team. I mean, the Denver Defense is the same defense that let LARRY JOHNSON rush for 200 yards against them].

 

Certianly Cutler makes a lot of mistakes, and by no means is he on the same level of the Brady's, Mannings, Brees', etc. But he is not even near the top of the list of problems in Denver. Tribute the undersize DLine, terrible LB core, declining Champ Baiiley/secondary, no steady running game before u attribut the L's to Cutler...

 

Throw in the fact that this guy is only 25 years old, and I think he is a perfect mold for a long-term, winning QB.

[wiffleball 4,797]

The last time I checked each team usually gets about the same number of offensive possessions in a game. When teams are scoring against them at the clip they were in a number of those games, the offense is clearly getting plenty of opportunities to do damage of their own, and just not succeeding. Cutler has a good line, very good receivers, and a good running game. If he's such an awesome QB, why can Denver not score with just about any team in the league, regardless of what his D is doing?

 

Man, I usually think you know wtf you're talking about, but I'm guessing not when it comes to football, huh? Dude, have you SEEN his focking numbers?

 

Let me see if I can put this into perspective:

 

Indianapolis colts: 12 4 0 .750 377 298

Denver Broncos: 8 8 0 .500 370 448

 

1. The Broncos and the Colts (I assume you don't think Manning "sucks", do you?) scored almost the exact same amount of points last year. (370/377).

 

2. The Colts went 12-4. What's the difference?

 

3. ONLY TWO OTHER TEAMS IN THE ENTIRE FOCKING LEAGUE (DET and Rams) HAD AS MANY POINTS SCORED AGAINST THEM AS DEN!

 

4. The average Points Against last year (eyeballing) was in the LOW 300's. Denver? Had 448 points scored against them! That's the QB's fault?

 

5. Only TWO QB's threw for more yards than Jay Cutler. Only SIX QB's threw for more TD's. But Huh, yeah, gee - the wildcard here is Jay.

 

Are you focking kidding me?

[Sho Nuff 720]

2nd best Offense in the league. Better numbers than Elway at this point is his career - and a SHIIT defense. - Can't blame Cutler for that.

 

Based on yardage...let me know how much yardage counts to the score of a game.

I agree the defense also sucks...but its not as if the offense was lighting up the scoreboard either.

[Walter34 3]

Thats exactly what im NOT saying. Im saying you can't argue Matt Ryan had one of the most successful rookie QB campaigns in recent memory. But who knows what will happen in the next 5-10 years. He could turn into the next Joe Montana or he could turn into the next Jake Plummer, who knows. So why does everyone write off Cutler after 2 good statistical seasons just because he doesnt have a winning record?

 

I'm agreeing with you. The Ryan comment was intended to point out the stupidity of comparing a neophyte with less than 10% of his resume completed with a HOFer

 

Cutler is one of the better young qbs with potential for sky's the limit. The same can be said for Ryan. They both have 10 years of production to complete before they enter the discussion with Elways, Favre's Manning and others.

[wiffleball 4,797]

Based on yardage...let me know how much yardage counts to the score of a game.

I agree the defense also sucks...but its not as if the offense was lighting up the scoreboard either.

 

7th best in TD passes, gee, does THAT have something to do with the score of a game?

[kutulu 1,703]

Also, by the end of the year I think they signed Dan Reeves for the RB position.

[wiffleball 4,797]

Cutler has a good running game.

 

Here's where you know Parrot doesn't know WTF he's talking about, but keeps on pressing it.

 

What did Denver have? 7-8 different RB's this year due to injury? They pulled one guy out of a focking CELL PHONE store for Chrissake!! They weren't even in the top ten for either YPG or Rushing TD's. Yeah, that stellar rushing game - led by who now?

[parrot 789]

Saying you don't know wtf you're talking about when you say shiit like you do - that's not an insult, it's a fact.

I can handle it just fine, I just think it's pretty pathetic. But suit yourself.

 

Tell me one thing I've said that's inaccurate. Not your spin on what I said, or misrepresentations like "sucks", but something I've actually said. I'll be waiting.

 

And yeah, if the Colts had many losses in the forty something to single digit range - you know the type of loss that Denver has several of over the last two years - then, yeah the offense was mailing it in too.

[parrot 789]

Here's where you know Parrot doesn't know WTF he's talking about, but keeps on pressing it.

 

What did Denver have? 7-8 different RB's this year due to injury? They pulled one guy out of a focking CELL PHONE store for Chrissake!! They weren't even in the top ten for either YPG or Rushing TD's. Yeah, that stellar rushing game - led by who now?

 

They had the 12th ranked rushing offense. That's in the top half of the league. Despite you arbitrarily throwing out top 10, most people would define that as "good". Not "great" not "maybe not even "very good" - which is how I described his receivers if you notice - but "good".

 

Yeah, they did it with a variety of backs, but one of the big stories was the production they kept getting. I'm sure you haven't forgotten fantasy waiver darling Payton Hillis? Denver has long gotten good production from a variety of different backs due largely to their very effective zone blocking scheme, that continued this year especially considering what they had at RB.

 

If 12th is a crappy running game, then 16th in scoring must be really crappy I guess, rather than "mediocre" as I called it before.

[wiffleball 4,797]

When I look at score like 41-3, 44-7, 23-3, 41-7... I see team FAIL!s not just defensive FAIL!s.

 

That's nice cherry picking there Parrot. How about you list all the times that Cutler & Co. WON games when the D allowed 3 or more TD's. It'd be an intereting listing.

 

To put Parrot's cherry picking into perspective: The Super Bowl Winning Steelers scored 30 points less than the Broncos did last year. Denver also scored ONE HUNDRED+ more points than the PREVIOUS Super Bowl winning Giants. All of this done under Jay Cutler's tenure.

 

But yeah, QB is Denver's problem.

[wiffleball 4,797]

rather than "mediocre" as I called it before.

 

 

Cutler has a good running game.

 

 

You called it "good". Now you're downgrading it to mediocre now that I called you out on it?

[mgs316 14]

Sage + Chester Taylor + 3rd round pick for Cutler.

[parrot 789]

That's nice cherry picking there Parrot. How about you list all the times that Cutler & Co. WON games when the D allowed 3 or more TD's. It'd be an intereting listing.

I pulled up those losses because the original poster posited that a lot of Denver losses would have been wins if the defense had been merely bad rather than horrific. I was pointing out that in a lot of their losses the offense was pretty woeful too and might well still have been losses even with marginally better defensive performances. If you would like to counter with the times they have won where the defense has allowed more than three TDs, knock yourself out. At least you would be offering something other than lame-ass RP-like spins on what other posters are saying.

 

To put Parrot's cherry picking into perspective: The Super Bowl Winning Steelers scored 30 points less than the Broncos did last year. Denver also scored more than the PREVIOUS Super Bowl winning Giants. All of this done under Jay Cutler's tenure.

You're really offering the Steelers and Giants as some kind of comparison. Doesn't everyone pretty much agree that these teams rode their defenses to Championships? This makes no sense.

 

But yeah, QB is Denver's problem.

 

I never said it was Wiffle Pilot.

[unckeyherb 2]

I am an Eagles fan and I don't get to watch the Broncos very often, but I targeted Cutler when he was a rook and I think hes potentially the best QB looking forward for the next decade. This situation, listening to the arguments back and forth, REAKS of Mcnabb and the Eagles. Haters and Homers. One side, no matter what stats you throw up, McNabb blows it it the big game. Ask a McNabb fan and the Defense is to blame. Or Playcalling. There are ways to spin your opinion any way you want. To say that Cutler isn't good because of his record might be true. But you need to include all the facts. Cutler was a pro-bowler in his second full year and led a top three ranked offense while only winning 8 games. What does that statement tell you? When on the field he put up a lot of yardage and Scored a lot as well (i belive he was 7 or 8 in TD passes). If you concede those FACTS, then what else could be a possible reason for them to lose 8 games? Being outscored, despite boasting huge offensive numbers? Who does that fall on?

 

I'd focking leave Denver if I was Cutler. Seeing how Donovan gets treated by a large number of fans here, and seeing the same blind hater attitude towards him here and else where..just too similar. Not worthi it.

[wiffleball 4,797]

Sage + Chester Taylor + 3rd round pick for Cutler.

 

Ugrade that to a 2. I mean, for fock's sake, Cassell went for a 2+ a player. - You throwing in Sage has to merit upgrading the draft pick.

 

Drop Sage from the deal and we'll take a 4th and some Pizza Hut coupons.

[wiffleball 4,797]

I am an Eagles fan and I don't get to watch the Broncos very often, but I targeted Cutler when he was a rook and I think hes potentially the best QB looking forward for the next decade. This situation, listening to the arguments back and forth, REAKS of Mcnabb and the Eagles. Haters and Homers. One side, no matter what stats you throw up, McNabb blows it it the big game. Ask a McNabb fan and the Defense is to blame. Or Playcalling. There are ways to spin your opinion any way you want. To say that Cutler isn't good because of his record might be true. But you need to include all the facts. Cutler was a pro-bowler in his second full year and led a top three ranked offense while only winning 8 games. What does that statement tell you? When on the field he put up a lot of yardage and Scored a lot as well (i belive he was 7 or 8 in TD passes). If you concede those FACTS, then what else could be a possible reason for them to lose 8 games? Being outscored, despite boasting huge offensive numbers? Who does that fall on?

 

I'd focking leave Denver if I was Cutler. Seeing how Donovan gets treated by a large number of fans here, and seeing the same blind hater attitude towards him here and else where..just too similar. Not worthi it.

[WhiteWonder 2,925]

Sage + Chester Taylor + 3rd round pick for Cutler.

 

nah

 

I almost fully believe that any trade is going to have to put Denver in a position to acquire their QB of the future. Either as a player in the trade or a sa draft pick setting them up to take that guy.

 

Sage is a nice player the Vikings were able to pick up who could be a better leader for an otherwise championship calibur team but i bet he isn't what the Broncos would be looking for.

 

Cassel and Quinn are probably the only 2 active QB's I could see Denver having any interest in. Any other trade is going to need to include a 1st rounder this year. One that would at least put them into position to take Freeman if they like him (not saying they do)

[Sho Nuff 720]

7th best in TD passes, gee, does THAT have something to do with the score of a game?

 

And 2nd only to Favre in INTs...does THAT have something to do with how much the other team had the ball?

2 can play at that game.

I mentioned the offense that you called 2nd best...I pointed out that is based on yardage and not points. Yards don't win you games.

 

Look, I think the kid is a hell of a QB and really don't want him anywhere near the NFC North...but while the defense has been bad...part of it is on him as well as far as wins and losses.

[LordOpie 0]

Forget about Cutler for a moment, cuz even if he left, we'd still have the problem...

 

To McDaniels, this is a video game. He's trying to play this like Madden in Franchise mode.

[wiffleball 4,797]

And 2nd only to Favre in INTs...does THAT have something to do with how much the other team had the ball?

2 can play at that game.

I mentioned the offense that you called 2nd best...I pointed out that is based on yardage and not points. Yards don't win you games.

 

Look, I think the kid is a hell of a QB and really don't want him anywhere near the NFC North...but while the defense has been bad...part of it is on him as well as far as wins and losses.

 

Of course, you got completely TANKED when you 'forgot' to mention the fact that he was SEVENTH in the league in TD passes.

 

Now, let's talk about your post:

 

1) Nice selective writing about the INT's. Let's see, he had 3 more INT's than SB winning Ben Roth. He had FOUR more INT's than the hella accurate Kurt Warner. - What the fock's your point there? You think a couple less INT's would have the Broncos lifting the Lombardi?

 

2) Yes, as leader of the team, obviously, "part of it is on him as well'. Part of it is on everyone on that team, no?

 

It's idiots that come out with - "Well with your record, you shouldn't....." "Cutler sucks because of his record.... " Stupid focks.

 

THEN You get a guy like Parrot saying the O was 'mailing it in', but can't quite explain how it is that O that "mailed it in" scored 100+ more points than the Giants when they went to the SB. More than the Focking Steeler's last year. - Can't quite explain how it is that Manning's is a great QB but Cutler is merely a "good" QB - when INDY's O only scored one more TD than DEN did. - Can't explain why it is Cutler shouldn't have to overcome a 52 point, a 41 point, etc. deficit in the FIRST focking place.

[parrot 789]

And 2nd only to Favre in INTs...does THAT have something to do with how much the other team had the ball?

2 can play at that game.

I mentioned the offense that you called 2nd best...I pointed out that is based on yardage and not points. Yards don't win you games.

 

 

Cutler had one of the worst QB ratings in the league inside the opponents' 20. Completion % under 50 and NOBODY threw more RedZone ints. I wonder if THAT had something to do with the disparity between yards and scoring?

[Sho Nuff 720]

Of course, you got completely TANKED when you 'forgot' to mention the fact that he was SEVENTH in the league in TD passes.

 

Now, let's talk about your post:

 

1) Nice selective writing about the INT's. Let's see, he had TWO more INT's than SB winning Ben Roth. He had FOUR more INT's than the hella accurate Kurt Warner. - What the fock's your point there? You think one less INT would have the Broncos lifting the Lombardi?

 

2) Yes, as leader of the team, obviously, "part of it is on him as well'. Part of it is on everyone on that team, no?

 

It's idiots that come out with - "Well with your record, you shouldn't....." "Cutler sucks because of his record.... " Stupid focks.

 

THEN You get a guy like Parrot saying the O was 'mailing it in', but can't quite explain how it is that O that "mailed it in" scored 100+ more points than the Giants when they went to the SB. More than the Focking Steeler's last year. - Can't quite explain how it is that Manning's is a great QB but Cutler is merely a "good" QB - when INDY's O only scored one more TD than DEN did. - Can't explain why it is Cutler shouldn't have to overcome a 52 point, a 41 point, etc. deficit in the FIRST focking place.

 

I did not forget to mention the TDs...you mentioned the #2 offense...I specifically stayed with team stats and mentioned they were 16th in focking points.

1. There was no selective writing...its the fact that you brought up his ranking in TDs...I brought up his freaking INTs 18 of them. SB winning Roth is not a high caliber put up big numbers QB. Warner also bested him by 5 TDs. But I don't recall trying to compare him to Big Ben or Warner. I only commented on your using the yardage as a ranking of the offense but conveniently leaving out points scored.

 

2. Agree there.

 

Yes...those that just say that he sucks because of his record are idiots for the most part.

And I don't recall Parrot saying Manning's numbers were all that great last year.

I don't think anyone is saying he should overcome a 52 point or 41 point deficit either.

But go on with your high horse attitude.

[parrot 789]

THEN You get a guy like Parrot saying the O was 'mailing it in', but can't quite explain how it is that O that "mailed it in" scored 100+ more points than the Giants when they went to the SB. More than the Focking Steeler's last year. -

 

Seriously you're just babbling at this point. Neither the Steelers or Giants had particularly prolific offenses in their title years. To use them as a benchmark is stupid.

 

Can't quite explain how it is that Manning's is a great QB but Cutler is merely a "good" QB - when INDY's O only scored one more TD than DEN did. - Can't explain why it is Cutler shouldn't have to overcome a 52 point, a 41 point, etc. deficit in the FIRST focking place.

 

Again, wtf? Manning is a great QB based on his body of work, not on how his offense compared to Denver's this one focking year. Manning actually played like crap for much of this year, then turned it on in the second half. Jay Cutler hasn't done one focking thing in his career to deserve to be mentioned in the same breath with Peyton Manning. That fact that you would even suggest this shows just how deluded you are on him.

[kmbryant09 1]

They had the 12th ranked rushing offense. That's in the top quarter of the league.

 

Once again Parrot, not helping your case...Simple math lesson, in order to be in the top quarter of the league @ #12, there'd hafta be 48 teams. 12th is below good but technically just above average...