Nicks..Is he a #1 FF WR this year?

[#1LionFan 0]

Nicks could be a 75 catch, 1000 yd, 8 td WR this year. In a ppr dynasty league, and assuming RB or WR depth was not an issue, do you think Nicks has more value than an RB like Shonne Greene? Would this be an equal swap of players?

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

i do not. i know everyone i high on Nicks and I am also to an extent. But keep in mind he may not even be the go to guy on his own team. I expect Steve Smith to catch the most balls on the Giants this year. I expect good numbers from Nicks but probably not fantasy #1 type numbers. i view him as a solid number 3 fantasy WR.

 

PPR or not I think Greene is the better guy to have in a dynasty assuming you are not loaded at RB and very thin at WR.

[Chargersin08 0]

LOL

[Little Big Head 6]

I think they are close in value depending on the league format. If dynasty PPR start 3 WRs its very close for me

[Chargersin08 0]

I think he can be a #1 receiver in a 30 team league.

[tanatastic 2,062]

I am geeting the exact same feeling about nicks that I got with santonio holmes last year when he was supposed to break out. I targetted holmes as a guy that would deliver big plays and not a huge amount of catches but a high ypc. I like nicks for sure this year but was let down by santonio so im cautious.

[Raider 84 29]

He has the potential for those stats, but I think he is still a year away. He is a great #2 wr on any fantasy team.

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

a great #2? maybe a normal number 2. a great #2 to me would be Colston, Boldin types.

[Chargersin08 0]

I wouldn't rely on him as anything more than a #3. He isn't even the #1 receiver on his own team.

[casper87 0]

To me Nicks is kinda a sleeper player--hence not a #1 receiver. I am not saying that nobody knows about him, they do. However, he is behind Smith on the depth chart on a team that I suspect will run the ball a whole bunch.

 

It's weird you put him up there with Greene as I am not as high as most on him. So if you wanted to swap one for the other--go ahead. Many would say that Greene is the better pick, but he hasn't proven much yet--he has upside but still needs to prove something to me first, before I put a whole bunch of stock in him. As we get closer to the season I am sure this will play out and we will see if L.T. will take a significant amount of touches away from Greene.

[Chargersin08 0]

To me Nicks is kinda a sleeper player--hence not a #1 receiver. I am not saying that nobody knows about him, they do. However, he is behind Smith on the depth chart on a team that I suspect will run the ball a whole bunch.

 

It's weird you put him up there with Greene as I am not as high as most on him. So if you wanted to swap one for the other--go ahead. Many would say that Greene is the better pick, but he hasn't proven much yet--he has upside but still needs to prove something to me first, before I put a whole bunch of stock in him. As we get closer to the season I am sure this will play out and we will see if L.T. will take a significant amount of touches away from Greene.

LT is going to be 3rd down back at best. I watched the guy for 15 games last year try to run, and he's toast.

[casper87 0]

LT is going to be 3rd down back at best. I watched the guy for 15 games last year try to run, and he's toast.

 

I am sure he (LT) has slowed down significantly, but he's gonna get at least 100 attempts and probably closer to 150 touches next year. I can't see how that helps Greene's stock any. BTW, the Jets drafted McKnight who's gonna take touches too.

[fantasymind 1]

Nicks is not yet a number 1 receiver and should not be viewed/drafted that way until 2011 at the earliest---and with that depending upon his performance this year and projected role in the offense for 2011. Steve Smith's performance last year as Manning's safety valve/go to guy should remain intact for at least this season, with Nicks running the deep, big play routes...I think the more realistic expectation is for Nicks to take over the #2 role from Manningham this season, with the two of them seeing a flip/flop in numbers---putting Nicks right around 60-950-6...serviceable as a #3 or spot starter, but not #1 material by any stretch...

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

LT is going to be 3rd down back at best. I watched the guy for 15 games last year try to run, and he's toast.

 

Jets offensive line >>> Chargers offensive line

 

all Thomas Jones did in NY was plow straight ahead.

[longlurker 0]

I am sure he (LT) has slowed down significantly, but he's gonna get at least 100 attempts and probably closer to 150 touches next year. I can't see how that helps Greene's stock any. BTW, the Jets drafted McKnight who's gonna take touches too.

 

McKnight will only see the field if he can pick up the blitz and block. 50-60 touches max.

 

LT2 only gets 125 touches with half of those in passing situations.

 

Hence, I figure Greene will get roughly 350 touches in 2010.

 

Of course all of this changes if there is a significant injury.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Hakeem Nicks is the most talented WR on the Giants. That talent will translate to him overtaking the (flimsly at best) #1 WR title from Steve Smith on that team this upcoming year. He's the real deal.

 

Now with that said Nicks will still not produce enough fantasy numbers to be considered a #1 WR on a fatansy team, and defintely should not be traded for Shonne Green. That's a little on the absurd side of the bus.

[KSB2424 3,148]

Jets offensive line >>> Chargers offensive line

 

all Thomas Jones did in NY was plow straight ahead.

I tried telling you last year WW, but LT2 is on downward spiral. You gotta let him go man, it's a lost cause.

[MicktheGreat 1]

Nicks could be a 75 catch, 1000 yd, 8 td WR this year. In a ppr dynasty league, and assuming RB or WR depth was not an issue, do you think Nicks has more value than an RB like Shonne Greene? Would this be an equal swap of players?

I'd rather have Shonn Greene than Hakeem Nicks.

 

I think Nicks is a good young WR with the potential to be very good in a year or two. Eli Manning appears to have developed into a solid QB; and the Giants will pass more since their OL has really worsened at run-blocking in the last couple of years. That said, however, I think Nicks is still stuck behind Steve Smith for targets/catches/yards and will also have to compete with Manningham for playing time (though I think Nicks is ultimately more talented). Because of that, though I think Nicks might lead Giants' WRs in TDs, he won't be the leader in receptions and receiving yards. Overall, he should be a solid #3 FF WR.

 

Shonn Greene, on the other hand, is playing behind the best OL in football and on a team that loves to run the ball. I'm not worried at all about the addition of LaDainian Tomlinson. To me, Tomlinson was clearly brought in to be their 3rd down RB (because Greene can't catch for sh!t). He'll steal a few carries from Greene but not many. Overall, barring significant injury, I think Greene is a lock for 325+ carries, 1400 rushing yards, and 10 TDs -- which would make him more valuable than Hakeem Nicks.

[Chargersin08 0]

Jets offensive line >>> Chargers offensive line

 

all Thomas Jones did in NY was plow straight ahead.

LT has no plow left in him.

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

I tried telling you last year WW, but LT2 is on downward spiral. You gotta let him go man, it's a lost cause.

 

no one is saying he is not on the downside of his career and done as an elite back.

 

but you have to be willing to look at ALL the evidence. Last year in SD, I would be willing to put all the blame on him if Sproles averaged more than 3.7 ypc behind that line. They could NOT run block. All the people saying LT2 was done, had man crushes on Sproles and he did nothing.

 

now LT comes to play behind arguably the best line in the NFL on a run first oriented team. He doesn't have his old LT cutting ability anymore, but does he need it? Thomas Jones was a north-south hard nosed runner and put up great totals behind that line.

 

As a Jet fan I am very excited for what Shonn Greene can do but I am also anticipating more of a workload for LT than most others. He was brought in to help sell PSL's and I expect him to see the field more than he probably should. But if Shonn Greene goes down or hits a sophomore wall ala Matt Forte, do you really think LT2 can't come in and run straight forward like Thomas Jones did behind that line?

 

also for what its worth I drafted LT in the IBL last year but I wouldn't pin my failures on him. Was a poor pick but his 900 yards and 12 scores in 14 games didn't kill me. Eddie Royal did

[Gepetto 1,360]

LT2 in New York (Jets) will be like Thurman Thomas in Miami or Tony Dorsett in Denver.

[Birdseed 1]

Keeper League: Nicks or Brandon Jacobs?

[KSB2424 3,148]

Keeper League: Nicks or Brandon Jacobs?

Totally depends on your other keepers (positions) and scoring. But my gut tells me Nicks is for real (long productive career) and Jacobs is not.

[Chargersin08 0]

no one is saying he is not on the downside of his career and done as an elite back.

 

but you have to be willing to look at ALL the evidence. Last year in SD, I would be willing to put all the blame on him if Sproles averaged more than 3.7 ypc behind that line. They could NOT run block. All the people saying LT2 was done, had man crushes on Sproles and he did nothing.

 

now LT comes to play behind arguably the best line in the NFL on a run first oriented team. He doesn't have his old LT cutting ability anymore, but does he need it? Thomas Jones was a north-south hard nosed runner and put up great totals behind that line.

 

As a Jet fan I am very excited for what Shonn Greene can do but I am also anticipating more of a workload for LT than most others. He was brought in to help sell PSL's and I expect him to see the field more than he probably should. But if Shonn Greene goes down or hits a sophomore wall ala Matt Forte, do you really think LT2 can't come in and run straight forward like Thomas Jones did behind that line?

 

also for what its worth I drafted LT in the IBL last year but I wouldn't pin my failures on him. Was a poor pick but his 900 yards and 12 scores in 14 games didn't kill me. Eddie Royal did

I explained this in another thread, but Sproles stats were watered down due to being used more in situations he should not have been used in when LT wasn't getting it done (IE goal line), if we're looking at "all the evidence." If you want even further evidence that LT's decline was him and not those around him, look at both guys receiving stats.

 

I guarantee that LT can't come in and run like Thomas Jones did. Thomas Jones was coming off back to back 1200 yard seasons in Chicago, there was a precedent for how well he did in New york. There is none for LT, he hasn't had a 1200 yard season since 2007.

[Chargersin08 0]

no one is saying he is not on the downside of his career and done as an elite back.

 

but you have to be willing to look at ALL the evidence. Last year in SD, I would be willing to put all the blame on him if Sproles averaged more than 3.7 ypc behind that line. They could NOT run block. All the people saying LT2 was done, had man crushes on Sproles and he did nothing.

 

now LT comes to play behind arguably the best line in the NFL on a run first oriented team. He doesn't have his old LT cutting ability anymore, but does he need it? Thomas Jones was a north-south hard nosed runner and put up great totals behind that line.

As a Jet fan I am very excited for what Shonn Greene can do but I am also anticipating more of a workload for LT than most others. He was brought in to help sell PSL's and I expect him to see the field more than he probably should. But if Shonn Greene goes down or hits a sophomore wall ala Matt Forte, do you really think LT2 can't come in and run straight forward like Thomas Jones did behind that line?

 

also for what its worth I drafted LT in the IBL last year but I wouldn't pin my failures on him. Was a poor pick but his 900 yards and 12 scores in 14 games didn't kill me. Eddie Royal did

Didn't see that part, don't know why I bothered.

[MicktheGreat 1]

Keeper League: Nicks or Brandon Jacobs?

Probably Nicks.

 

I think Nicks has more long-term potential, and I see the Giants continuing to pass the ball a bit more (considering Eli's improvement as a QB and the OL's poor run-blocking as of late). Jacobs will undoubtedly have a few good games, but he'll also undoubtedly get injured and miss some games too. Plus, from the few Giants games that I've watched, Ahmad Bradshaw has always struck me as a better RB anyway.

 

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

I explained this in another thread, but Sproles stats were watered down due to being used more in situations he should not have been used in when LT wasn't getting it done (IE goal line), if we're looking at "all the evidence." If you want even further evidence that LT's decline was him and not those around him, look at both guys receiving stats.

 

I guarantee that LT can't come in and run like Thomas Jones did. Thomas Jones was coming off back to back 1200 yard seasons in Chicago, there was a precedent for how well he did in New york. There is none for LT, he hasn't had a 1200 yard season since 2007.

 

 

Didn't see that part, don't know why I bothered.

 

what people dont seem to understand is that being a Jet fan, I want to see Shonn Greene take over and be a beast. But should he falter, be injured or not be effective... i think LT could have a very nice year.

 

I could nitpick your analysis of LT vs TJ by saying TJ had his 1200 yard seasons away from the Jets at the same time LT was still having those types of seasons. The difference? After TJ joined the Jets, LT remained in San Diego and his line got worse. So how do we really know TJ's continued success wasn't largely in part to the Jets line??

 

Look, Thomas Jones played great but you have to look at his rushing style. He does not rely on cuts and quick movement. The big knock on LT has been his loss of his amazing cutting and ability to make people miss that he needed in SD when the line wasn't opening up the kind of holes NY can.

 

So I think my main point here is to say that if LT gets the opportunity, he can put up good fantasy numbers behind that line. It won't be because he is still great or because his skills magically improve from 2009, it will be because of the beastly line in front of him.

[Chargersin08 0]

what people dont seem to understand is that being a Jet fan, I want to see Shonn Greene take over and be a beast. But should he falter, be injured or not be effective... i think LT could have a very nice year.

 

I could nitpick your analysis of LT vs TJ by saying TJ had his 1200 yard seasons away from the Jets at the same time LT was still having those types of seasons. The difference? After TJ joined the Jets, LT remained in San Diego and his line got worse. So how do we really know TJ's continued success wasn't largely in part to the Jets line??

 

Look, Thomas Jones played great but you have to look at his rushing style. He does not rely on cuts and quick movement. The big knock on LT has been his loss of his amazing cutting and ability to make people miss that he needed in SD when the line wasn't opening up the kind of holes NY can.

 

So I think my main point here is to say that if LT gets the opportunity, he can put up good fantasy numbers behind that line. It won't be because he is still great or because his skills magically improve from 2009, it will be because of the beastly line in front of him.

If you know that Thomas Jones is a bruiser and LT is a finesse back, then how the hell do you think LT is going to suddenly become a bruising RB? It's not the fuckin line, for ######'s sake, it's LT. He lost the ability to make defenders miss and run through arm tackles. The holes were there, you just weren't watching, and you want to make a blanket statement about the Chargers offensive line somehow worsening because LT's stats went down the shitter.

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

If you know that Thomas Jones is a bruiser and LT is a finesse back, then how the hell do you think LT is going to suddenly become a bruising RB? It's not the fuckin line, for ######'s sake, it's LT. He lost the ability to make defenders miss and run through arm tackles. The holes were there, you just weren't watching, and you want to make a blanket statement about the Chargers offensive line somehow worsening because LT's stats went down the shitter.

 

when did i say LT was a finese back? because i said he had great cutting ability and made people miss? But i never said he was a finese back. LT, in his prime, was an EVERYTHING back. An Emmitt Smith, a Curtis Martin. Guys who could make people miss and also plow ahead.

 

Im assuming you are a charger fan so im assuming you know how great LT has been near the goalline in his career. As an LT fan I saw plenty of Charger games. Anyone who thinks his line was as good as it was 5 years ago is kidding themselves. Blanket statement? For the millionth time, LT's skills are diminished. No one is claiming otherwise.

[Chargersin08 0]

when did i say LT was a finese back? because i said he had great cutting ability and made people miss? But i never said he was a finese back. LT, in his prime, was an EVERYTHING back. An Emmitt Smith, a Curtis Martin. Guys who could make people miss and also plow ahead.

 

Im assuming you are a charger fan so im assuming you know how great LT has been near the goalline in his career. As an LT fan I saw plenty of Charger games. Anyone who thinks his line was as good as it was 5 years ago is kidding themselves. Blanket statement? For the millionth time, LT's skills are diminished. No one is claiming otherwise.

I said he was a finesse back.

 

We'll see how good that offensive line is this year, when there are no excuses.

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

I said he was a finesse back.

 

We'll see how good that offensive line is this year, when there are no excuses.

 

which line, the Jets? they lost faneca but i wont make any excuses for them. Its a top 3 unit.

 

or did you mean the Chargers? If McNiel gets a new deal, Hardwick comes back healthy and Vazquez improves with another year under his belt I think they could be a better unit than 2009 but not vastly improved.

[Smileseers 54]

For the millionth time, LT's skills are diminished. No one is claiming otherwise.

 

People are just trying to tell you that his skills have diminished to the point that LT should not be on a NFL roster.

 

The Jets made an impulsive move early in the free agency because Shonn Green can't catch a pillow thrown at him. This was a move made by the owner and GM, not the scouting department.

 

LT last year reminded me of Shaun Alexander as a Redskin, looking for a place to fall down before he got tackled.

[Chargersin08 0]

which line, the Jets? they lost faneca but i wont make any excuses for them. Its a top 3 unit.

 

or did you mean the Chargers? If McNiel gets a new deal, Hardwick comes back healthy and Vazquez improves with another year under his belt I think they could be a better unit than 2009 but not vastly improved.

Hardwick came back healthy in the playoffs. I'm not talking about the line improving or not, I'm saying the line is what it is, LT made it look great while he was running well, but he starts to tail off and everyone starts pointing fingers at the offensive line, when it's obvious who the culprit is. We will see just how good the offensive line is this year with the new running back in there.

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

Hardwick came back healthy in the playoffs. I'm not talking about the line improving or not, I'm saying the line is what it is, LT made it look great while he was running well, but he starts to tail off and everyone starts pointing fingers at the offensive line, when it's obvious who the culprit is. We will see just how good the offensive line is this year with the new running back in there.

 

Hardwick had another surgery when the season ended so i doubt he was fully healthy.

 

Im not sure why you act as if it has to be a 1 way street and its either the line or LT to blame. Im not pointing fingers at the SD line saying "LT is the same great back if only his line was better!". I think I have clearly stated that my feelings on what LT could be are soley because I think the Jets line is THAT good and LT can be a north-south runner behind that line.

 

If Mathews can cut and make some people miss on his own, I expect him to have a higher ypc than LT did with no cutting ability.

[Ray_T 753]

to be honest it is difficult to say at this point what will happen with Nicks.

 

Rookie Receivers typically take 2-4 years to reach their fantasy potential. This is Nicks second year.

 

because he did have a very good first year, his chances of performing early are higher than average, but there is still the possibility that he wont break out until next year.

 

I would draft him as a WR3 and hope that he develops into a starter.

 

if your draft is just prior to the NFL season start, then keep an eye on training camp reports and you will have a better idea of what they will do with this guy in the regular season.

 

that's the best advice I can give at this time.

[Smileseers 54]

I think I have clearly stated that my feelings on what LT could be are soley because I think the Jets line is THAT good and LT can be a north-south runner behind that line.

 

Can you give an example of a RB who switched his running style to a north-south runner at the end of his career??

[Chargersin08 0]

Hardwick had another surgery when the season ended so i doubt he was fully healthy.

 

Im not sure why you act as if it has to be a 1 way street and its either the line or LT to blame. Im not pointing fingers at the SD line saying "LT is the same great back if only his line was better!". I think I have clearly stated that my feelings on what LT could be are soley because I think the Jets line is THAT good and LT can be a north-south runner behind that line.

 

If Mathews can cut and make some people miss on his own, I expect him to have a higher ypc than LT did with no cutting ability.

Oh, is your shoulder in your ankle now?

[WhiteWonder 2,729]

Oh, is your shoulder in your ankle now?

 

regarding Hardwick? you're a moron. who said it was the same injury?

 

surgery of any kind when the season ends tells me you probably were not fully healthy at the end of the year.

[Gepetto 1,360]

regarding Hardwick? you're a moron. who said it was the same injury?

 

surgery of any kind when the season ends tells me you probably were not fully healthy at the end of the year.

 

He's kind of slow and tries to hide behind grade school insults. Best to ignore.

[Junkie 0]

Keeper League: Nicks or Brandon Jacobs?

Or Corey Dillon in New England. I suspect he'll have a few good games and be non-existant in others, depending on matchups, injuries, and if the Jets are playing from behind.

 

To answer the origional question, I'd rather have Greene than Nicks. Of course that's relative to your leagues scoring and who's on your roster. I can certainly see offering up Greene for Nicks in a trade if you are loaded at RB and need WR help. When I think about it like that I realize that their values are not that far off from each other.