Tax the Super Rich now or face a revolution

[Bert 1,128]

US companies are going to Ireland because taxes are lower and we let them set up overseas offices without paying any taxes here. If we closed that loophole they wouldn't be setting up overseas tax shelters. If we took your advice and bribed them by cutting taxes in half, would they come back to the US? No, they'd find another country with even lower tax rates and move there.

 

 

Politians have tried to close that loop whole 3 or 4 times over the last 15 years and each time they have failed. Your plan of "close the loop hole" is how we ended up with a 70,000 page tax code that doesn't work. Your attitude of keep doing what we always do isn't working.

 

Also are you going to bar all foreign companies from selling in the US or just some of them?

[MDC 7,470]

Politians have tried to close that loop whole 3 or 4 times over the last 15 years and each time they have failed. Your plan of "close the loop hole" is how we ended up with a 70,000 page tax code that doesn't work. Your attitude of keep doing what we always do isn't working.

 

I don't get your point here. Is it impossible to close this loophole? Or have both major parties conspired to keep it open for the benefit of their campaign backers?

 

Also are you going to bar all foreign companies from selling in the US or just some of them?

 

I'm not going to bar anyone from selling in the US. I'm going to prevent US businesses from setting up phony addresses overseas that operate like tax shelters. And I'm going to slam imports with tariffs that make it cost prohibitive for companies to create products with cheap foreign labor and sell them primarily to the US.

 

If Dell wants to have it's main plant in Ireland, go right ahead! And while you're at it you can sell your sh1tty laptops to the Irish. Good luck with that.

 

[Recliner Pilot 61]

I don't get your point here. Is it impossible to close this loophole? Or have both major parties conspired to keep it open for the benefit of their campaign backers?

 

 

 

I'm not going to bar anyone from selling in the US. I'm going to prevent US businesses from setting up phony addresses overseas that operate like tax shelters. And I'm going to slam imports with tariffs that make it cost prohibitive for companies to create products with cheap foreign labor and sell them primarily to the US.

 

If Dell wants to have it's main plant in Ireland, go right ahead! And while you're at it you can sell your sh1tty laptops to the Irish. Good luck with that.

 

 

and then every country around the world who have companies getting hit with your tariff will slap one on anything imported from the USA. What will that do to mfg in the USA?

 

The level of your cluelessness is staggering.

[NewbieJr 541]

and then every country around the world who have companies getting hit with your tariff will slap one on anything imported from the USA. What will that do to mfg in the USA?

 

The level of your cluelessness is staggering.

You know what's amazing? This thread has seen many different opinions about the subject and thoise involved have somehow managed to keep it at an adult level.

 

You make one post and it has to have a third-grade insult in it. I predict this thread will now disinegrate into bullsh!t like every single thread you enter does. Nice going, champ.

[IMMensaMind 462]

+1

 

Greed will drive the downfall of western civilization. Rinse, repeat.

 

 

No. Misunderstanding that Capitalism has to date been by far the best mechanism to harness the positive aspects of greed to realize maximize productivity, while minimizing the damage greed can do through publicly determined checks and balances and personal accountability...

 

...that's been the downfall of any civilization. Since greed is endemic to human nature and all. Ergo: what will be the downfall of Western Civilization are ignoramuses who foist increasingly large Government over us in a futile attempt to cloister greed, while not understanding that doing so merely insulates those who are in a position to do the most damage when being greedy.

 

Those people bastardize Capitalism. It's called cronyism.

[IMMensaMind 462]

While I think that you can sometimes fall into the BLS category of paranoid alarmists, I happen to agree with you 100%.

I read somewhere that the wealthiest 500 americans earn more combined than the poorest 50% of the US population. That's right, 500 people earn more than half of the country. I bet the poor half could beat the crap out of those 500 dudes. Don't think it can't happen. Just keep up the greed. rich folk. See what happens.

 

Yes - because your ideology actually instructs that people who make that much should. just. stop.

 

[IMMensaMind 462]

The Pareto principle, also known as the 80-20 rule, speaks to this. The notion of wealth condensations and the negative impact on society is dismissed by some as "sour grapes" due to a sense of entitlement or a general misrepresentation of the rising tide theory. Regardless, it isn't as if we do not have a frame of reference to derive some ideas as to how the disparity, left unchecked, results in revolution or civil strife.

 

Agreed. It also is caused by those who create Cronyism with which to begin.

[Bert 1,128]

I don't get your point here. Is it impossible to close this loophole? Or have both major parties conspired to keep it open for the benefit of their campaign backers?

 

 

 

I'm not going to bar anyone from selling in the US. I'm going to prevent US businesses from setting up phony addresses overseas that operate like tax shelters. And I'm going to slam imports with tariffs that make it cost prohibitive for companies to create products with cheap foreign labor and sell them primarily to the US.

 

If Dell wants to have it's main plant in Ireland, go right ahead! And while you're at it you can sell your sh1tty laptops to the Irish. Good luck with that.

 

 

Most Politians are lawyers that weren't smart enough to make it in the real world. So the tax lawyers that are hired by businesses are a lot smarter so they find ways around the laws. That said both parties are sell outs to the lobbyists and this plays a role as well. That is the reason I support across the board term limits.

 

Tariffs in a global economy are a scary scenario. We put tariffs on products coming in, other countries do the same and then we have no exports. If there is no corporate income tax most of the games, the deductions, sourcing income, etc. are gone. I would also eliminate all deductions on the personal income tax side. Every person gets a $35,000 standard deduction then all your income is taxed at a 10% rate. No games, no bullsh!t.

[IMMensaMind 462]

If you really want to get into it... There is a tax side, but there is also the currency side of the equation... Japan and China manipulate their currancies to makes their exports cheaper... They can do this because they own all our debt and we are reliant on them to continue doing so...

 

You talk about greed...But...

 

1.) greed created unions which is basically a system of concentrating the wealth of workers into the fewer union subscribed hands.

2.) Unions forced manufacturing overseass

3.) social entitlements ( another form of greed - concentrating wealth in the hands of a select group) forced insane borrowing

4.) Insane borrowing allowed China leverage to abuse currency

5.) Currency abuse is what kills manufacturing...

 

All 5 of these points MASSIVELY reduced the # of jobs and the strength of the middle class.... The smoke and mirrors politicians made you believe these things strengthened the middle class... All it realy did was strengthen a political power base while raping and pilaging the lower and middle class...

 

 

Capitalistic Greed > Socialistic Greed....

 

Great. Post.

[mobb_deep 920]

and then every country around the world who have companies getting hit with your tariff will slap one on anything imported from the USA. What will that do to mfg in the USA?

 

The level of your cluelessness is staggering.

 

This is where I tend to think conservatives fell off the turnip truck. Statements like "what will this do to manufacturing in the USA". It's almost like you guys think we're still living in the times of the industrial revolution. We don't need manufacturing jobs in the USA, because America is leading the information revolution! The dynamics and business cycles are completely different. Bringing those jobs back is, in my opinion, counter productive.

[Bert 1,128]

This is where I tend to think conservatives fell off the turnip truck. Statements like "what will this do to manufacturing in the USA". It's almost like you guys think we're still living in the times of the industrial revolution. We don't need manufacturing jobs in the USA, because America is leading the information revolution! The dynamics and business cycles are completely different. Bringing those jobs back is, in my opinion, counter productive.

 

I agree to a certain extent but as the original article showed the information jobs and high paying jobs at that are leaving the country because of our screwed up income tax system.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

You know what's amazing? This thread has seen many different opinions about the subject and thoise involved have somehow managed to keep it at an adult level.

 

You make one post and it has to have a third-grade insult in it. I predict this thread will now disinegrate into bullsh!t like every single thread you enter does. Nice going, champ.

 

 

So now pointing out that he is clueless because he is obviously clueless about the ramifications of his position is a third grade level insult now?

 

Grow a pair, Bubbles.

 

I addressed his point, explained the ramifications of his proposal, and proclaimed him clueless for not knowing the ramifications.

[mobb_deep 920]

I agree to a certain extent but as the original article showed the information jobs and high paying jobs at that are leaving the country because of our screwed up income tax system.

 

I tend to agree with that. I'm actually a living example of that...

 

I'm a software engineer for a Fortune 500 company. 99% of my time (when I'm not wasting it on FFT) is spent on conference calls with the people actually doing the development, in Bangalore. We just take the code, verify the compilables, clean up what's needed... and send it back to India for QA testing. The Indian/Paki guys working here on visa say the guys over there are being paid about 25k to do the same work guys over here get paid 100k+ to do. If these guys went back to India and made 100k still, they'd have private chefs, chauffeurs and gigantic compounds.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

This is where I tend to think conservatives fell off the turnip truck. Statements like "what will this do to manufacturing in the USA". It's almost like you guys think we're still living in the times of the industrial revolution. We don't need manufacturing jobs in the USA, because America is leading the information revolution! The dynamics and business cycles are completely different. Bringing those jobs back is, in my opinion, counter productive.

 

 

We don't need manufacturing jobs in America? Really?

 

I would call you clueless, but that would make Bubbles cry.

[mobb_deep 920]

We don't need manufacturing jobs in America? Really?

 

I would call you clueless, but that would make Bubbles cry.

 

Oh look, it's RP telling everyone how wrong they are without offering the correct answer again. Please, I'm dying to know why we need to create more jobs for the uneducated and unskilled. I'm guessing you think we should also pay more for the exact same thing some uneducated unskilled guy in Mexico is making for pennies on the dollar.

 

Your schtick is so old I don't think it's even entertaining yourself anymore. You're just going through the motions at this point. Where did my spunky, equally ignorant, self loathing RP go?

[IMMensaMind 462]

This is where I tend to think conservatives fell off the turnip truck. Statements like "what will this do to manufacturing in the USA". It's almost like you guys think we're still living in the times of the industrial revolution. We don't need manufacturing jobs in the USA, because America is leading the information revolution! The dynamics and business cycles are completely different. Bringing those jobs back is, in my opinion, counter productive.

 

There is no turnip truck involved. Your position is far too absolutist; there will never be no manufacturing in the US; that's a silly position to require. What matters is here is what policy does to the remaining manufacturing.

 

In addition: what policies which affect manufacturing wouldn't affect service/data industries regardless? Business is all connected.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Oh look, it's RP telling everyone how wrong they are without offering the correct answer again. Please, I'm dying to know why we need to create more jobs for the uneducated and unskilled. I'm guessing you think we should also pay more for the exact same thing some uneducated unskilled guy in Mexico is making for pennies on the dollar.

 

Your schtick is so old I don't think it's even entertaining yourself anymore. You're just going through the motions at this point. Where did my spunky, equally ignorant, self loathing RP go?

 

 

The correct answer to your claim that the USA doesn't need manufacturing jobs is that you are wrong. The USA needs mfg jobs.

 

The correct answer to MDC wanting to tax the sh!t out of imports is that it will result in our exports getting taxed. This will kill those mfg jobs you claim we don't need.

[Bert 1,128]

I tend to agree with that. I'm actually a living example of that...

 

I'm a software engineer for a Fortune 500 company. 99% of my time (when I'm not wasting it on FFT) is spent on conference calls with the people actually doing the development, in Bangalore. We just take the code, verify the compilables, clean up what's needed... and send it back to India for QA testing. The Indian/Paki guys working here on visa say the guys over there are being paid about 25k to do the same work guys over here get paid 100k+ to do. If these guys went back to India and made 100k still, they'd have private chefs, chauffeurs and gigantic compounds.

 

The India thing is a whole special problem with there lack of regulation and dirt wages for educated people. The jobs we are losing that really scare me are the ones going to Europe where there is regulation and the wage scales are similar. Somethings gotta give we can't keep doing what we are doing.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Mobb, just because your gig in you IT cubicle has you on the phone with dotheads all day doesn't mean we don't have a huge mfg base in this country.

[mobb_deep 920]

Mobb, just because your gig in you IT cubicle has you on the phone with dotheads all day doesn't mean we don't have a huge mfg base in this country.

 

Oh I know we do... they, like you, are a dying breed. You can kick and scream all you want. It doesn't change the facts. America is becoming more educated. Educated people do smart people work. Smart people have this thing called "awareness". As with everything else (fashion, music, pop culture, etc) things take a little longer to reach middle America. I'm sure they'll catch on around the same time they stop wearing Hollister, American Eagle and body piercings.

[IMMensaMind 462]

Oh I know we do... they, like you, are a dying breed. You can kick and scream all you want. It doesn't change the facts. America is becoming more educated. Educated people do smart people work. Smart people have this thing called "awareness". As with everything else (fashion, music, pop culture, etc) things take a little longer to reach middle America. I'm sure they'll catch on around the same time they stop wearing Hollister, American Eagle and body piercings.

 

This is irrational. In fact, it could be argued that our populace is no longer the smartest in the world.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Oh I know we do... they, like you, are a dying breed. You can kick and scream all you want. It doesn't change the facts. America is becoming more educated. Educated people do smart people work. Smart people have this thing called "awareness". As with everything else (fashion, music, pop culture, etc) things take a little longer to reach middle America. I'm sure they'll catch on around the same time they stop wearing Hollister, American Eagle and body piercings.

 

 

So you think computer programming is for the uneducated and unskilled?

[DankNuggs 305]

So you think computer programming is for the uneducated and unskilled?

He believes that middle america can no longer be bothered by manufacturing jobs... Middle america is smart and educated and require cubicle jobs at Initech and Intertrode. They deserve this because they successfully graduated from Southwest Mid Missouri State College and now hold a paper diploma.

 

Reality can suck. All they may have purchased is some magic beans. The things that will define their professional successes likely have nothing to do with any class they slept through.

 

I'll add this one again:

 

"Successful people do the things unsuccessful people couldn't be bothered with."

[mobb_deep 920]

Alright, well you guys have fun waiting for these manufacturing jobs to come back. Bring plenty of water and a change of clothes. It's going to be a while.

 

Truth told, I'd rather spend my day working on cars with my grease monkey friends. That is until I go over to their tiny apartments on the bad side of town, to drink domestic beers, whilst their fat wives cook us t-bones and potato buds. That's always a quick reminder of how good I really have it.

 

ETA: We're all still waiting for this imaginary picture of you and your hot wife. You're the only one with something to hide chief. My cards are on the table.

[SUXBNME 1,512]

Truth told, I'd rather spend my day working on cars with my grease monkey friends. That is until I go over to their tiny apartments on the bad side of town, to drink domestic beers, whilst their fat wives cook us t-bones and potato buds. That's always a quick reminder of how good I really have it.

 

[mobb_deep 920]

 

Haha, don't roll your eyes. I've seen you cooking potato buds!

[Recliner Pilot 61]

You are so completely clueless when it comes to mfg in this country that you have to resort to jumping in Newbie's back pocket and whine about me not posting a pic?

 

Just throw in the towel now and be cone with it.

[NewbieJr 541]

I predict this thread will now disinegrate into bullsh!t like every single thread you enter does. Nice going, champ.

As predicted. Another one for RP's trophy case. Thanks for killing another good discussion, ugly.

 

Mods, please delete everything after post #42, when the cancer entered, and lock it. Some people might want to read some actual adults having a discussion.

[DankNuggs 305]

Alright, well you guys have fun waiting for these manufacturing jobs to come back. Bring plenty of water and a change of clothes. It's going to be a while.

If you accept the idea that globalization is a bit like osmosis, as the pressure 'equilizes' manufacturing should eventually come back in some shape or form... Provided the cost of doing business in america is not prohibitive

[Recliner Pilot 61]

A few points Mobb:

 

1. The USA still has the largest mfg base in the world, by far. So it isn't about "bringing back jobs". Claiming we don't need mfg jobs is just plain wrong, one might say elitist.

 

2. Mfg jobs are not filled by idiots. You should ask your supervisor if you can venture out of your cubicle for a day so you can actually go to a mfg facility. I cover most of TX and all of OK selling into mfg facilities. Every week I'm in food mfg, refineries, steel mills, machine shops.......you name it, I've probably seen it made. These days it's all highly technical. I'll bet you some of the redneck "unskilled workers" you deride can program rings around you on their CNC machines.

 

Two weeks ago I was in the largest tire mfg plant in the world. Goodyear in Lawton, OK. The plant literally is a mile long, and they are in the middle of a five year expansion. The automation in the plant requires everyone from the operators to the maintenance guys to be highly technical.

 

3. Your IT gig is one of the easiest to send overseas for a dothead to do, so you may need to start working on a back up plan. Maybe Sux can train you on all the computer codes involved in being a "grease monkey", if you are smart enough.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

That is until I go over to their tiny apartments on the bad side of town, to drink domestic beers, whilst their fat wives cook us t-bones and potato buds. That's always a quick reminder of how good I really have it.

 

 

Say Hi to Newbie for me.

[Phurfur 70]

I have a problem with the poor not the rich. Why do people want to align themselves with the biggest loser group in the country, the poor?

[DankNuggs 305]

I have a problem with the poor not the rich. Why do people want to align themselves with the biggest loser group in the country, the poor?

its like in prison, ask an inmate and 95% will claim they are innocent.

 

I enjoy the 'locked up' series, one of the few reasons to venture to msnbc.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Revolution is a pretty strong word. I guess it could eventually come to that if the income inequality continues for a long time on the pace it has been going the past couple decades. But I don't think you have to tax the super-rich right this very minute or face a revolution.

 

The window for that is probably at least 30 years or so. Right now ordinary middle class people are struggling, but most of them are still gettting by. A revolution won't happen unless and until these middle-class persons are standing in bread lines or wondering how they are going to clothe their children.

[penultimatestraw 473]

No. Misunderstanding that Capitalism has to date been by far the best mechanism to harness the positive aspects of greed to realize maximize productivity, while minimizing the damage greed can do through publicly determined checks and balances and personal accountability...

 

...that's been the downfall of any civilization. Since greed is endemic to human nature and all. Ergo: what will be the downfall of Western Civilization are ignoramuses who foist increasingly large Government over us in a futile attempt to cloister greed, while not understanding that doing so merely insulates those who are in a position to do the most damage when being greedy.

 

Those people bastardize Capitalism. It's called cronyism.

 

If capitalism is so great, how do you explain this? My link

 

WALLINGFORD, CT—Upending more than two centuries of free-market theory, leading economists across the globe announced Thursday that the fundamental principles of capitalism had been "irrefutably disproved" by the continued existence of the designer fruit-basket company Edible Arrangements.

[drobeski 3,061]

The problem is, the libs have succsesfully convinced the non workers, the leaches on the system that they deserve or are owed a middle class hand out and life style.

[NewbieJr 541]

Just heard on the news this morning that CEO's earned, on average, a 27% wage increase over the last three years. Hourly workers- 2%.

 

Yeah, the divide between the upper and middle/lower classes isn't getting wider.

[drobeski 3,061]

Just heard on the news this morning that CEO's earned, on average, a 27% wage increase over the last three years. Hourly workers- 2%.

 

Yeah, the divide between the upper and middle/lower classes isn't getting wider.

you should become a ceo

[RLLD 4,246]

I am amazed and impressed with the level of discussion in this thread. This is a rare series of exchanges for this forum

[drobeski 3,061]

I am amazed and impressed with the level of discussion in this thread. This is a rare series of exchanges for this forum

Blow me