2011 NFL Draft Weekend Division Thread: NFC North

[swamp dog 0]

"The worst thing people can say about him is that he's a little mean and nasty, which are characteristics that we find quite redeeming for a defensive tackle."--Tom Lewand (on Fairley).

 

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

i doubt the pats make the first pick tonight. they'll trade out with someone hot for dalton.

 

as someone somewhere else said: will the rest of nfl please stop trading with the pats?! jesus.

 

Everyone goes gaga over the Pats trading down and always adding #1's for next year. Big deal. They may have just made a massively stupid move passing on Ingram.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Grant and Starks are nice #2 backs, neither is a feature back.

 

And Bush? Nobody is going to pay him anywhere near what he thinks he's worth. His days of being a top paid player are over. He is a role player, time to get paid like it. His best chance of keeping big money coming in left when he broke up with Kim Kardashian.

 

I actually think the freaking pats might trade for him. He is the kind of guy Bellicheat will torture the rest of the league with.

 

Its a 2 back league and since when does it take a "feature back" to win? Its a passing league and they thrive on what they have on the outside.

Grant rushed for 1200 in 08 and 09...not just some scrub. This is not fantasy ball.

 

He will still make more than Ted would likely pay for him.

[Sho Nuff 719]

i doubt the pats make the first pick tonight. they'll trade out with someone hot for dalton.

 

as someone somewhere else said: will the rest of nfl please stop trading with the pats?! jesus.

Why stop trading with them?

Have they been drafting pefect with all of those picks? They keep moving back...but their drafts have not been stellar at all.

[scherber830 0]

http://landof10klosses.wordpress.com/

 

Click the link above for a pretty good article written about why Ponder was the right pick for Minnesota. My buddy wrote it. He's not a professional, but he brought up some decent points.

[Walter34 3]

at least mayhew is consistent in his draft philosophy and doesn't waver from it. he said fairley was "by far" the bpa on their board when pick 13 rolled around--no one else even remotely close. that's why they took all of 2 minutes to make the pick. they were actually on the phone when minny was up trying to trade the pick because they were certain the vikes were going to take fairley.

 

oops.

 

i think suh keeps fairley on the straight and narrow and elevates his game. it's going to fun as hell watching those 2 beat the living piss out of the offensive players in the rest of the nfcn. cutler especially better double down on some life insurance.

 

what a line. in two short years the lions have built arguably the best, deepest d-line in football.

 

other needs to address, yes, but i'll note that despite walter's lukewarm praise for the pick, i remember walter spending all the millen years here bitching about how you build a football team from the lines out. sort of hypocritical, walt, for you to even remotely question the lions not drafting a back-7 player there instead of adding another stud on the line

 

You're reading too much into my comments and looking for negatives when they arent there. I agreed with the pick and mentioned that a good line makes the rest of the D better just as a good oline makes the rest of the O better.

 

Detroit ignored large weaknesses to make a good line better. That was my point. Not saying it was the wrong pick at all.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

at least mayhew is consistent in his draft philosophy and doesn't waver from it. he said fairley was "by far" the bpa on their board when pick 13 rolled around--no one else even remotely close. that's why they took all of 2 minutes to make the pick. they were actually on the phone when minny was up trying to trade the pick because they were certain the vikes were going to take fairley.

 

oops.

 

i think suh keeps fairley on the straight and narrow and elevates his game. it's going to fun as hell watching those 2 beat the living piss out of the offensive players in the rest of the nfcn. cutler especially better double down on some life insurance.

 

what a line. in two short years the lions have built arguably the best, deepest d-line in football.

 

other needs to address, yes, but i'll note that despite walter's lukewarm praise for the pick, i remember walter spending all the millen years here bitching about how you build a football team from the lines out. sort of hypocritical, walt, for you to even remotely question the lions not drafting a back-7 player there instead of adding another stud on the line

It was a good pick. Gosselin nailed it. I definitely think it was the right pick over Amukumura or whatever his name is. However, Castonzo or Solder would have been very good picks too. They wouldn't have been considered reaches and it may have been more of a needs meets value pick. I'm guessing Stafford wouldn't have minded an OT being picked there.

[Walter34 3]

Also, we have all been away for awhile. Let's not dive back into the slap fights just yet. I have a dream of harmony and brotherhood and friendly ribbing, at least for a couple of days ...

 

We're all awesome and all picks are good

 

... except the queens

 

[Sho Nuff 719]

Also, we have all been away for awhile. Let's not dive back into the slap fights just yet. I have a dream of harmony and brotherhood and friendly ribbing, at least for a couple of days ...

 

We're all awesome and all picks are good

 

... except the queens

 

 

Yeah, been a quiet offseason.

Time for a new thunderdome thread.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

Also, we have all been away for awhile. Let's not dive back into the slap fights just yet. I have a dream of harmony and brotherhood and friendly ribbing, at least for a couple of days ...

 

We're all awesome and all picks are good

 

... except the queens

 

I haven't been here in maybe a month or more. It's fantasy baseball season and nothing going on in the NFL except rich guys fighting with richer guys.

 

That may have been my first post bragging some about my favorite NFL team winning the SB and the nut slinging guy is all over me. Good grief, let me have a little moment.

[Mike FF Today 608]

Let's not dive back into the slap fights.

 

... except the queens

 

Agreed. We finally have some football to talk about. No need to muddle it up with a personal pissing match.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

You're reading too much into my comments and looking for negatives when they arent there. I agreed with the pick and mentioned that a good line makes the rest of the D better just as a good oline makes the rest of the O better.

 

Detroit ignored large weaknesses to make a good line better. That was my point. Not saying it was the wrong pick at all.

 

That is an interesting philosophical question. Is a unit better when it is three mediocre pieces? (Line, LB, Secondary?) Or is it better with one dominant unit, one mediocre one, and one sh!tty one?

[Walter34 3]

That is an interesting philosophical question. Is a unit better when it is three mediocre pieces? (Line, LB, Secondary?) Or is it better with one dominant unit, one mediocre one, and one sh!tty one?

 

On defence, the DLine is most important imo and run stuffers and a good pass rush compensate for weakness elsewhere. On offence, an oline opens up run holes and protects the qb giving routes time to develop. The big boys are what makes team's successful. Elite qbs are obviously the single players that are most important, but lineman as a group are just as important to success.

 

It's not a science of course, but an opinion I've held for years. This is what swamp was referring to in his post. I criticized Det for drafting wrs all those years instead of building from the inside out.

[Riddlen 1]

they need a WR but yikes. i didnt want one here.

[remote controller 133]

BEARS SCORE!!! Paea and Carimi!! Nice draft.

[Walter34 3]

BEARS SCORE!!! Paea and Carimi!! Nice draft.

 

Nice - Paea was one of the guys they were looking at with their 1st rounder.

 

If they draft another olineman with the other 2nd rounder, it will be exactly what I thought they should do with their first 3 picks.

[Riddlen 1]

a RB...

[swamp dog 0]

not sure what to think of the titus pick...but i like the lions being aggressive and coming back into the 2nd to get the 2nd-ranked rb on their board behind ingram (leshoure). a nice combo with best.

 

obviously all the holes aren't getting filled, but that wasn't going to happen no matter what. looks like great quality on 2 of the picks (reserving judgment on titus).

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

not sure what to think of the titus pick...but i like the lions being aggressive and coming back into the 2nd to get the 2nd-ranked rb on their board behind ingram (leshoure). a nice combo with best.

 

obviously all the holes aren't getting filled, but that wasn't going to happen no matter what. looks like great quality on 2 of the picks (reserving judgment on titus).

 

You can't turn around a train wreck like the 0-16 Lions in one, or even three, drafts. It certainly appears that the new bosses are steadily raising the talent level up there. Appears to be a better future.

[swirvenirvin 25]

Please, please, please don't take a QB at 12.

 

 

Oops

[swamp dog 0]

Nice - Paea was one of the guys they were looking at with their 1st rounder.

 

If they draft another olineman with the other 2nd rounder, it will be exactly what I thought they should do with their first 3 picks.

 

solid 1 and 2 picks for the bears.

[Urlacher54 0]

Chris conte? Fock. Clint boling would have been a great pick.

[Walter34 3]

Chris conte? Fock. Clint boling would have been a great pick.

 

I dont know him, but we had enough mediocre safetys already. manning and Wright and Steltz and ...

 

My 3 fat guy strategy didn't get completed. o well, we'll see.

[Jarvis Basnight 119]

not sure what to think of the titus pick...but i like the lions being aggressive and coming back into the 2nd to get the 2nd-ranked rb on their board behind ingram (leshoure). a nice combo with best.

 

obviously all the holes aren't getting filled, but that wasn't going to happen no matter what. looks like great quality on 2 of the picks (reserving judgment on titus).

I understand the value pick in the 1st but how long do you draft value while ignoring need. I don't get why they just ignore their OL every year either. Do they really think Backus is a starting LT in the NFL? Stafford may have something to say about that. And they could use some LB's and CB's.

[CantTouchThis 23]

I understand the value pick in the 1st but how long do you draft value while ignoring need. I don't get why they just ignore their OL every year either. Do they really think Backus is a starting LT in the NFL? Stafford may have something to say about that. And they could use some LB's and CB's.

 

I think they went with Titus and Leshoure because, first off, they DO need a slot receiver. In their system, a slot WR is essential, and Titus has the potential to be a fantastic slot receiver. Plus, he is a slot WR that can stretch the field and make big plays. They can run Calvin and Titus deep, have Nate and Peti work the middle, with Best running out into the flat. Unstoppable...obviously if Staff can stay upright. The line did a good job of pass protection last year, despite what many think. The run blocking is deplorable...but that is where LeShoure comes in. Best is an east-west, big play or bust runner like Barry. Leshoure is a big bruiser that can work inside the tackles. That combo could be tremendous. However, they do still need one or two run-blocking tackles for sure.

 

However, the biggest reason was because there just aren't many impressive CB or LB prospects past the top few, or one in case of the LBs. Those are the 2 biggest needs for the Lions, and there just aren't too many impressive prospects at either position in this draft. Why burn an early round pick on a 2nd rate CB or LB prospect, when they were able the snag arguably the top DL in the draft and the #2 RB in the draft? Also the #4 WR(but you could put any one of 5 or 6 prospects at #4, but I think Young was the best-fit for the offense).....they sure as hell could use a bruising, durable back and a speedy, sure handed WR as much as anything.

 

I love this draft, really 3 near can't-miss prospects. The best thing is none of those guys will be put on the spot right away. They will have a chance to learn and develop behind other players.

[donhaas 18]

Looks like this is the year that the Lions pass up the Bears in the pecking order...

[Walter34 3]

 

 

I love this draft, really 3 near can't-miss prospects.

 

3 near cant misses eh? Couldnt every team say the same thing at this point?

[swamp dog 0]

I think they went with Titus and Leshoure because, first off, they DO need a slot receiver. In their system, a slot WR is essential, and Titus has the potential to be a fantastic slot receiver. Plus, he is a slot WR that can stretch the field and make big plays. They can run Calvin and Titus deep, have Nate and Peti work the middle, with Best running out into the flat. Unstoppable...obviously if Staff can stay upright. The line did a good job of pass protection last year, despite what many think. The run blocking is deplorable...but that is where LeShoure comes in. Best is an east-west, big play or bust runner like Barry. Leshoure is a big bruiser that can work inside the tackles. That combo could be tremendous. However, they do still need one or two run-blocking tackles for sure.

 

However, the biggest reason was because there just aren't many impressive CB or LB prospects past the top few, or one in case of the LBs. Those are the 2 biggest needs for the Lions, and there just aren't too many impressive prospects at either position in this draft. Why burn an early round pick on a 2nd rate CB or LB prospect, when they were able the snag arguably the top DL in the draft and the #2 RB in the draft? Also the #4 WR(but you could put any one of 5 or 6 prospects at #4, but I think Young was the best-fit for the offense).....they sure as hell could use a bruising, durable back and a speedy, sure handed WR as much as anything.

 

I love this draft, really 3 near can't-miss prospects. The best thing is none of those guys will be put on the spot right away. They will have a chance to learn and develop behind other players.

 

i'm taking a "we'll see" approach to the 2nd-round picks. at this point, mayhew's earned the benefit of the doubt given his first two drafts. i'm a little surprised to see some gushing praise for their draft from "non homer" newspapers:

 

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/121013344.html

 

then again, i painfully remember the A+ grade the lions got from gurus the year they drafted roy williams and traded back into the first to take kevin jones. so...i guess we'll see.

[Walter34 3]

So with Fairly, what happens with Cory Williams? Is he now releasable? I thought he was pretty good. I don't like the rb pick, but only because I have Best in a dynasty league. It still seemed like a reach to trade up and pay an expensive package for a platoon RB. Hopefully this doesnt mean that Best is in worse shape than we know. WR was a need to have someone take some pressure off CJ.

[Sho Nuff 719]

So with Fairly, what happens with Cory Williams? Is he now releasable? I thought he was pretty good. I don't like the rb pick, but only because I have Best in a dynasty league. It still seemed like a reach to trade up and pay an expensive package for a platoon RB. Hopefully this doesnt mean that Best is in worse shape than we know. WR was a need to have someone take some pressure off CJ.

 

Do they rotate some...put Suh at DE some more with Fairley and Williams in the middle and KVB on the other side.

 

Best just can't stay healthy.

Their offense should be good if Stafford can remain upright. And they need to address the Oline and secondary at some point.

[Walter34 3]

Bears

1.29 OL Gabe Carimi Wisconsin

2.21 DL Stephen Paea Oregon State

3.29 DB Chris Conte California

 

Adress the two biggest needs on the lines. Not sure that a trade up was required in round 2, but the Bears rated Paea as a 1st round player. Overall, happy with the picks. 3rd round safety was iffy with Major Wright and Manning in place already.

 

Pack

 

1.32 OL Derek Sherrod Mississippi State

2.32 WR Randall Cobb Kentucky

3.32 RB Alex Green Hawaii

 

Solid 1st round value and need pick. They needed better protection with Peppers, Allen and Vanden Bosch pash rushing off the ends. Added 2 more offensive peices. They now have 3 potential RBs to go with and drafting Cobb could spell the end of the line for driver. I like all 3 picks for them. Rich get richer.

 

Lions

 

1.13 DL Nick Fairley Auburn

2.12 WR Titus Young Boise State

2.25 RB Mikel Leshoure Illinois

 

presumed good value in round 1 and as stated, added to a spot that was already solid. Ignoring LBs and DBs however could hurt. Will need to address in free agency if it ever happens. Not thrilled about the 2nd round picks. They've drafted a RB high in 3 of the last 4 years. Muddies the fantasy picture.

 

Vikes

 

1.12 QB Christian Ponder Florida State

2.11 TE Kyle Rudolph Notre Dame

 

Head scratchers. On the surface, possibly the worst draft in the league so far. Did they really need a TE that high with Shiancoe in the fold already? A perceived reach for Ponder. He and Webb will get killed this year with the 3 other defences in the division.

[Walter34 3]

Looks like this is the year that the Lions pass up the Bears in the pecking order...

 

Honestly, it could happen. My gut says both teams look like 9-7 right now.

[Walter34 3]

Do they rotate some...put Suh at DE some more with Fairley and Williams in the middle and KVB on the other side.

 

Best just can't stay healthy.

Their offense should be good if Stafford can remain upright. And they need to address the Oline and secondary at some point.

 

Can Suh move to DE? If so, that would be a scary line.

[swamp dog 0]

Can Suh move to DE? If so, that would be a scary line.

 

there were times he lined up at end last year. the early word is that suh and fairley will be lining up all over the place, depending on the down and the situation. there's also been speculation of a "big" package of suh, fairley, williams/hill and vandenbosch in certain situations.

 

gunther has to feel like a kid in a candy store right now.

[swamp dog 0]

So with Fairly, what happens with Cory Williams? Is he now releasable? I thought he was pretty good. I don't like the rb pick, but only because I have Best in a dynasty league. It still seemed like a reach to trade up and pay an expensive package for a platoon RB. Hopefully this doesnt mean that Best is in worse shape than we know. WR was a need to have someone take some pressure off CJ.

 

williams was one of their best players last year. i highly doubt they pawn off their depth at d-line--rather they use it and have a great rotation.

 

it'll also be interesting to see how their developmental pick last year on o-line (fox) plays into their plans. i know he was highly regarded but slipped a couple rounds last year because he was coming off an injury.

[The Hood 9]

Bears

1.29 OL Gabe Carimi Wisconsin

2.21 DL Stephen Paea Oregon State

3.29 DB Chris Conte California

 

Adress the two biggest needs on the lines. Not sure that a trade up was required in round 2, but the Bears rated Paea as a 1st round player. Overall, happy with the picks. 3rd round safety was iffy with Major Wright and Manning in place already.

 

 

There's a good chance Manning ends up a free agent when there is ever a new CBA. He rejected a $6M 3 year extension during last year. Assume they don't think he'll be back then which is why they made this pick. But even so I don't love the pick either. Would have liked another OL pick as well ...........or maybe a WR with some size.

 

 

[swamp dog 0]

if and when free agency starts...tulloch (linebacker, tenn) has practically been having cyber sex with schwartz and the lions via his twitter account the past few days.

[Walter34 3]

There's a good chance Manning ends up a free agent when there is ever a new CBA. He rejected a $6M 3 year extension during last year. Assume they don't think he'll be back then which is why they made this pick. But even so I don't love the pick either. Would have liked another OL pick as well ...........or maybe a WR with some size.

 

You're probably right. I would not like losing Manning, more for his kick returns than safety play. If they do think he is gone, then the pick makes more sense.

[Parja 0]

Vikes

 

1.12 QB Christian Ponder Florida State

2.11 TE Kyle Rudolph Notre Dame

 

Head scratchers. On the surface, possibly the worst draft in the league so far. Did they really need a TE that high with Shiancoe in the fold already? A perceived reach for Ponder. He and Webb will get killed this year with the 3 other defences in the division.

 

Shiancoe, one of the best pass catching TEs in the league and Kleinsasser, one of the best blocking TEs in the league. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Plenty other positions of serious need to be picking up an unnecessary TE.

 

And the icing on the cake...New England getting Mallet in the 3rd with the pick they got from the Vikings for The Randy Moss Experiment.

[Vikings4ever 496]

Vikes

 

1.12 QB Christian Ponder Florida State

2.11 TE Kyle Rudolph Notre Dame

 

Head scratchers. On the surface, possibly the worst draft in the league so far. Did they really need a TE that high with Shiancoe in the fold already? A perceived reach for Ponder. He and Webb will get killed this year with the 3 other defences in the division.

You have to think the Redskins were looking at Ponder, and were gambling that Vikings wouldn't make such a reach. So, yes, they reached, but they got the guy they wanted. I'm not happy with the pick, but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, for now.

 

As for Rudolph, TE isn't a need this year. But Kleinsasser's 34, an in the last year of his contract. Schianco's in the last year of his contract. So TE is going to be a need soon. So, while I would have preferred a lineman, I'm OK with this pick.