Taxes lowered on airlines but airlines RAISE rates

[RLLD 4,230]

But that's my point: I did not make that huge profit you keep talking about despite the market value of the house being higher because the house I was moving to was also overpriced. It was pretty much a lateral move and yet you say I should have downgraded and incurred a loss instead? My point is that if I had wanted to sell at a much lower price, I would not have been able to move to where we wanted to go for work so no policeman/fireman would have had my house anyway. If not for buyers willing to put their necks on the line and lenders giving them the rope, prices would have been lower. I would have sold for less and bought for less but would likely have ended up in the same house with the same amount of debt. I understand the Greater Responsibility aspect but are you saying I should have sold at a lower $ and put myself in the street or in a much smaller house totally outside of town? And then only have accepted offers from low wage earners for my home? What if I unknowingly sold at a low price to some big wig who then turns around and sells it for much more? Do I need to ask for the earnings of all home buyers? I think it's sad that some folks cannot afford a single family dwelling, I really do. But I don't think this is simply a RE issue. You don't think having to pay more and more for everything, on salaries that basically go up much slower than the cost of living (the real one), has any impact on what RE people can buy?

 

 

I never suggested that you should have downgraded. I did suggest, and have many times over the years, that banks and buyers were idiots and did not deserve to be saved, I also pointedly stated over and over that the bulk of the culpability was elsewhere, but I stand by my assertion that sellers are not absolved of any responsibility. You are keying on, like many others before, on the notion that people should bear any responsibility for their actions where profit can be derived. It's just something we can agree to disagree on..... that's all. The airlines are likely to side with you though....

 

People have the choice to act or not to act. If they face losing money on the sale then they may shy away, but the availability of profit will sway them still. To suggest that one should reasonably expect to sell a home for double or triple the price paid two or three years prior with no repercussions seems outside of common sense.

 

People who participated now want to get relief, want the government to force the banks to save them, lament their plight over a recession......they need only look back over the last five years and see if they added to it, if they did, then they are getting exactly what they are due...

[NewbieJr 541]

and not just any John Lennon quote. But a nebulous quote from a tired song that was inspired by dope and going through a divorce. Very politically relevant indeed.

Awww, don't be so hard on Phurfer. The dude is a full blown birther. That tells you all you need to know about his mental capacity.

[BLS 314]

Keep in mind the people who relied on training camp, and the patronage that it included, fantasy football magazines that were not published.....it goes on and on, when a business is not operating, the residual effects can have a large footprint.

 

 

I understand your viewpoint fully, but you MUST take into account the reciprocal.

 

Money not spent on those goods and services is now free to be spent elsewhere.

Overall, in a Macroeconomic sense, it has little effect.

 

Relate it to Bastiat's "broken window" from "That which is seen and that which is not seen".

http://bastiat.org/en/twisatwins.html#broken_window

 

It's actually very interesting reading and you'll find that he makes a wonderful argument for why war is so profitable for those who supply the war effort, but so costly for those who pay it's costs.

[Blitzen 0]

I never suggested that you should have downgraded. I did suggest, and have many times over the years, that banks and buyers were idiots and did not deserve to be saved, I also pointedly stated over and over that the bulk of the culpability was elsewhere, but I stand by my assertion that sellers are not absolved of any responsibility. You are keying on, like many others before, on the notion that people should bear any responsibility for their actions where profit can be derived. It's just something we can agree to disagree on..... that's all. The airlines are likely to side with you though....

 

People have the choice to act or not to act. If they face losing money on the sale then they may shy away, but the availability of profit will sway them still. To suggest that one should reasonably expect to sell a home for double or triple the price paid two or three years prior with no repercussions seems outside of common sense.

 

People who participated now want to get relief, want the government to force the banks to save them, lament their plight over a recession......they need only look back over the last five years and see if they added to it, if they did, then they are getting exactly what they are due...

 

I'm still in a fog on how I bear responsibility on an overall transaction on which I made no profit.

[Strike 5,542]

Jesus F'ing Christ. How did a thread about airline prices turn in to another RLLD whining about home prices thread? And people wonder why this bored is focking dieing. Give it a rest already Dumbass.

 

BTW, anyone who doesn't like that the major airlines are raising prices should fly on one of the airlines that aren't. I'm gonna be booking a flight today for less than 2 bills round trip on Frontier. They're having a sale AND not charging the federal taxes. There's this thing called competition that our government tries to restrict but, when allowed, does a good job of keeping prices where they should be. Oh, and if our government hadn't stuck it's head in to the real estate market those prices wouldn't have skyrocketed either. See how that all works?

 

[BLS 314]

Jesus F'ing Christ. How did a thread about airline prices turn in to another RLLD whining about home prices thread? And people wonder why this bored is focking dieing. Give it a rest already Dumbass.

 

BTW, anyone who doesn't like that the major airlines are raising prices should fly on one of the airlines that aren't. I'm gonna be booking a flight today for less than 2 bills round trip on Frontier. They're having a sale AND not charging the federal taxes. There's this thing called competition that our government tries to restrict but, when allowed, does a good job of keeping prices where they should be. Oh, and if our government hadn't stuck it's head in to the real estate market those prices wouldn't have skyrocketed either. See how that all works?

 

 

Could not have said it better myself. I just want to get into this debate because wormy doesn't understand how the free market works.

[MDC 7,425]

Let's see where ticket prices are in 10 years you short sighted moron.

 

When the cost of gas, groceries and housing goes up over the next ten years are you going to blame that on the lockout too?

 

You are too fvcking dumb to live.

[NewbieJr 541]

When the cost of gas, groceries and housing goes up over the next ten years are you going to blame that on the lockout too?

 

You are too fvcking dumb to live.

Pssst. Again....keep in mind, the dumbass is a birther.

[MDC 7,425]

Pssst. Again....keep in mind, the dumbass is a birther.

 

Even a birther should realize that NFL ticket prices are going to go up over a ten-year period and it has nothing to do with the lockout.

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Living is easy with eyes closed, misunderstanding all you see.

- John Lennon

 

Wow, that's brilliant. I can't argue with that Phurfur!

 

 

[IGotWorms 4,058]

Could not have said it better myself. I just want to get into this debate because wormy doesn't understand how the free market works.

 

Oh I understand supply and demand perfectly well. What I am getting at is all these people that claim that if the government only lowered taxes, prices would come down on everything in a corresponding fashion and suddenly consumers would have a lot more money to spend. This case study shows that isn't true. Lowering taxes will not be pass savings on to the consumer: it will line the pockets of the corporations.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Oh I understand supply and demand perfectly well. What I am getting at is all these people that claim that if the government only lowered taxes, prices would come down on everything in a corresponding fashion and suddenly consumers would have a lot more money to spend. This case study shows that isn't true. Lowering taxes will not be pass savings on to the consumer: it will line the pockets of the corporations.

 

Here is what you whined about in your thread title"

 

I thought lower taxes meant more money in the consumers' pockets?

 

Yes, lower taxes mean more money in consumer's pockets when you lower their TAX RATES. That is the Conservative position you are so lamely trying to mock.

 

Huge fayle again, Worms. :overhead:

[penultimatestraw 473]

I sold two homes, for what was at the time half of market value....yes I know, that sounds crazy, but i want to live my life in a way where I earn what i deserve, and do not hurt others.

This sounds mighty magnanimous, but how do you determine what you deserve? Seems like a lot of arbitrary enters the equation in most transactions.

[RLLD 4,230]

This sounds mighty magnanimous, but how do you determine what you deserve? Seems like a lot of arbitrary enters the equation in most transactions.

 

Salaries/Rents/Mortgages have a traditional relationship that helps one properly gauge a market. Further, given housings historical 5% rise over time, using that measure as a sanity check one can further make some assessments.

 

When one of them falls out of line, you have to judge for yourself how you react. Parasites have a predictable reaction.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Salaries/Rents/Mortgages have a traditional relationship that helps one properly gauge a market. Further, given housings historical 5% rise over time, using that measure as a sanity check one can further make some assessments.

 

When one of them falls out of line, you have to judge for yourself how you react. Parasites have a predictable reaction.

Would you request a pay cut if your salary exceeded the appropriate mathematical relationship to to your mortgage?

[Recliner Pilot 61]

When the cost of gas, groceries and housing goes up over the next ten years are you going to blame that on the lockout too?

 

 

 

Obviously, that will be Bush's fault.

[Reality 3,121]

We can all breathe a sigh of relief, the Government is once again confiscating taxes on airline tickets.

 

[Sho Nuff 720]

Here is what you whined about in your thread title"

 

 

 

Yes, lower taxes mean more money in consumer's pockets when you lower their TAX RATES. That is the Conservative position you are so lamely trying to mock.

 

Huge fayle again, Worms. :overhead:

 

Where was he claiming anything about "their tax rates"?

He was talking about taxes on business and lowering the price of products or services to consumers.

 

Not that I agree wit his premise and mocking.

And its not shocking that the airlines would do this...just as they would raise the rates if tax rates went up.

But so far your are the one failing here...between this post and your crap about needing the exact wording of all airlines raising it the exact amount...just hilarious.

[Phurfur 70]

When the cost of gas, groceries and housing goes up over the next ten years are you going to blame that on the lockout too?

 

You are too fvcking dumb to live.

 

You aren't very smart are you?

[RLLD 4,230]

Would you request a pay cut if your salary exceeded the appropriate mathematical relationship to to your mortgage?

 

You appear to have missed the point, there is a traditional relationship between the three, when one perverts away it influences the other two, as a result one can discern when the either the rental market or buying market has perverted out of place, and choose appropriately.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Where was he claiming anything about "their tax rates"?

He was talking about taxes on business and lowering the price of products or services to consumers.

 

Not that I agree wit his premise and mocking.

And its not shocking that the airlines would do this...just as they would raise the rates if tax rates went up.

But so far your are the one failing here...between this post and your crap about needing the exact wording of all airlines raising it the exact amount...just hilarious.

 

My god what a fukking moron you are. His premise that lower taxes means more money in people's pockets applies when individual tax rates are lowered, not when some tax on an airline is lifted.

 

And I was just quoting Worms on the "exact amount" comment. Here is what he said:

 

So it just so happens that every single airline was about to institute a fare increase that exactly equaled the expired taxes?

 

 

I asked him to back that up, so far he has failed to do so.

 

So, take your little obsession with me and shove it up your gaping arsehole. Consider this Lesson 1 for the day. Now fukk off.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

So, now that the FAA is now funded and the gubment can collect those taxes, the airlines who kept their fares level and did not pass on the savings to the consumer because of "macroeconomics" should now have their fares the same as before. Right?

 

Interestingly enough, I have been tracking flights to Florida in a few months for a golf trip. It just so happens that those fares went UP an amount very similar to the cost of the taxes. And for those talking about gas prices going up, let's not forget that crude is below $90.

 

Bottom line is that people always get focked.

[RLLD 4,230]

So, now that the FAA is now funded and the gubment can collect those taxes, the airlines who kept their fares level and did not pass on the savings to the consumer because of "macroeconomics" should now have their fares the same as before. Right?

 

Interestingly enough, I have been tracking flights to Florida in a few months for a golf trip. It just so happens that those fares went UP an amount very similar to the cost of the taxes. And for those talking about gas prices going up, let's not forget that crude is below $90.

 

Bottom line is that people always get focked.

 

That is what people are here for, to continue enriching the top 1%...

[Strike 5,542]

So, now that the FAA is now funded and the gubment can collect those taxes, the airlines who kept their fares level and did not pass on the savings to the consumer because of "macroeconomics" should now have their fares the same as before. Right?

 

Interestingly enough, I have been tracking flights to Florida in a few months for a golf trip. It just so happens that those fares went UP an amount very similar to the cost of the taxes. And for those talking about gas prices going up, let's not forget that crude is below $90.

 

Bottom line is that people always get focked.

 

How is this "focking" anyone? There are a bunch of different airlines. They are free to charge whatever they want to take you from point a to point b, regardless of any fees or taxes the gubment imposes. You choose which airline to purchase from when you book your flight, or are free to choose another mode of transportation if you want. I don't see how an airlines choice of fare focks anyone in any way, shape, or form. This whole thread is an epic fail and just another attack on businesses trying to make a profit. Quite honestly, airfares are pretty cheap relatively speaking. Try taking a taxi the same distance.

[RLLD 4,230]

How is this "focking" anyone? There are a bunch of different airlines. They are free to charge whatever they want to take you from point a to point b, regardless of any fees or taxes the gubment imposes. You choose which airline to purchase from when you book your flight, or are free to choose another mode of transportation if you want. I don't see how an airlines choice of fare focks anyone in any way, shape, or form. This whole thread is an epic fail and just another attack on businesses trying to make a profit. Quite honestly, airfares are pretty cheap relatively speaking. Try taking a taxi the same distance.

 

This is also valid, but what if we then included the over $155 billion in taxpayer subsidies for the airlines since the 1970's?

[KSB2424 3,148]

Nobody is forcing you to buy the airline tickets.

 

Drive, take a train, find a cheaper airline if you must.

 

That's what competition is all about.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

How is this "focking" anyone? There are a bunch of different airlines. They are free to charge whatever they want to take you from point a to point b, regardless of any fees or taxes the gubment imposes. You choose which airline to purchase from when you book your flight, or are free to choose another mode of transportation if you want. I don't see how an airlines choice of fare focks anyone in any way, shape, or form. This whole thread is an epic fail and just another attack on businesses trying to make a profit. Quite honestly, airfares are pretty cheap relatively speaking. Try taking a taxi the same distance.

 

 

As are all of Worm's positions.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

Nobody is forcing you to buy the airline tickets.

 

 

Nope. Not yet anyway. Obama hasn't taken over the airline industry yet.

[Sho Nuff 720]

My god what a fukking moron you are. His premise that lower taxes means more money in people's pockets applies when individual tax rates are lowered, not when some tax on an airline is lifted.

 

And I was just quoting Worms on the "exact amount" comment. Here is what he said:

 

 

 

 

I asked him to back that up, so far he has failed to do so.

 

So, take your little obsession with me and shove it up your gaping arsehole. Consider this Lesson 1 for the day. Now fukk off.

 

His focking premise was that lowering taxes on a good or service (in this case airlines) that they would pass it down to the consumers. He posted it because the airlines were raising rates right in line with that taxes that just lowered. His opening posts seems to mis-state it as lowering taxes on people...but any reasonable person could infer by the article he was talking about lowering taxes on a service like the airlines given the example used.

Are you really that dense? Or just in need to argue?

 

Yes, I know you looked at his focking statement...and only an idiot like you took him 100% literally.

 

Lesson 1 in what? How big of a focking asshat you are?

I already knew that, you don't need to go proving it every day.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

 

Lesson 1 in what?

 

Handing you your arse. Now fukk off and find something else to whine about, Bubbles.

[RLLD 4,230]

Nobody is forcing you to buy the airline tickets.

 

Drive, take a train, find a cheaper airline if you must.

 

That's what competition is all about.

 

Not sure about that, I want my tax money to go to something else, the government (by way of subsidies to that industry) is forcing my participation in a means of travel I actively avoid due to the excessive costs.

[Sho Nuff 720]

Handing you your arse. Now fukk off and find something else to whine about, Bubbles.

 

My arse?

You only proved you are an insane moron...my point stands and is backed up by the article.

When has anyone claimed lowering an individual's tax rate would cause a corporation to pass down savings to a consumer?

Are you really that focking stupid?

And you still think you handed anything to me?

 

Wow...you need some meds...very fast.

Also...despite your lame attempt...pointing out what a focking idiot you are is not whining.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

 

When has anyone claimed lowering an individual's tax rate would cause a corporation to pass down savings to a consumer?

 

 

Nobody that I have seen. But keep making up stuff, Bubbles.

[redtodd 7]

While it may seem like a great idea for an airline to raise their prices in the same amount as the tax savings, it may be an unwise move for them in the long run.

 

Let's say the tax frees up $50 in a ticket price, if half of the airlines raise their price $50 (to keep the price paid by the consumer the same), there are now half as many airlines that can offer the same ticket for $50 less than those sneaky guys who raised their prices. In an ultra competitive industry where price definitely matters, who do you think will win the business on those price sensitive purchases?

 

Now, once the sneaky guys who raised their prices see that they are losing sales to the lower prices airlines, they will need to lower it to match their prices to be competitive. What the lowing of tax can do is create a more competitive environment which tend to help the consumer.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,432]

How is this "focking" anyone? There are a bunch of different airlines. They are free to charge whatever they want to take you from point a to point b, regardless of any fees or taxes the gubment imposes. You choose which airline to purchase from when you book your flight, or are free to choose another mode of transportation if you want. I don't see how an airlines choice of fare focks anyone in any way, shape, or form. This whole thread is an epic fail and just another attack on businesses trying to make a profit. Quite honestly, airfares are pretty cheap relatively speaking. Try taking a taxi the same distance.

 

Hmmm. Interesting. Have you ever noticed that when one airline raises their fares, so does everyone else? Sort of like the gas stations that are supposedly independent. There are certain things that are relatively immune to traditional economic thinking of price equalling the intersection of supply and demand. Air travel is one of those, which is why we end up bailing those fockers out all the time.

 

Tell me that there is no collusion there. Actually, don't bother, because I wouldn't believe you anyway.

[Strike 5,542]

This is also valid, but what if we then included the over $155 billion in taxpayer subsidies for the airlines since the 1970's?

 

I hate subsidies. For any industry. That's pretty irrelevant to this discussion though.

[Strike 5,542]

Hmmm. Interesting. Have you ever noticed that when one airline raises their fares, so does everyone else?

 

Actually, quite often one airline raises it's fares to see if the raise will take hold. If other airlines don't follow suit, which happens frequently, they lower those fares back down. I got an idea for you. If you think you can fly people around cheaper you should start an airline. There aren't any laws preventing you from doing so. Heck, you might even get subsidies.

[MDC 7,425]

You aren't very smart are you?

 

Smart enough to know that season ticket costs were going up over the next ten years, regardless of the lockout.

 

You make Flahawker look like an MFing Rhodes Scholar.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You appear to have missed the point, there is a traditional relationship between the three, when one perverts away it influences the other two, as a result one can discern when the either the rental market or buying market has perverted out of place, and choose appropriately.

I understand the point, but think the mathematical relationship is artificial, with everything from our salaries to home values sprinkled with a whole lot of subjectivity.