I had to veto a trade last night (keeper league)

[Dashow28 6]

In fact, only 2 posters in this thread that have over 6,000 posts have even given an opinion Me, and cbfalcon (unless you count GFIAFP), who recommended you rename yourself "Brian Bozworth is Nuts".

 

The fact that we think that, while your supporters are a bunch of guys that each have less than 100 or 1000 total posts...well that should tell you all you need to know about the trade.

 

So you're telling me that your "Post count" makes you more than an "expert" than the next guy just because he has a lower post count? Right...or maybe it just means you spend more time on this board than others (not saying it's a bad thing, just saying). Maybe others post on another board. Either way, comparing post counts shouldn't mean a thing when it comes to evaluating multiple opinions on the subject at hand. 2 years back I had a guy who had been playing since 1992 tell me that the only way he would trade Glen Coffee (I had Frank Gore here at the time, and he just went down early) was if I traded him Vincent Jackson for Coffee straight up. So obviously being around awhile doesn't always mean you know what you're talking about, or know more than the other.

 

As far as the trade at hand, I really don't see much of a problem with it even if CJ wasn't holding out. Everybody values players differently. As somebody else pointed out, this trade is basically Roddy for CJ with some scraps involved. There's a good chance Roddy is going to be around putting up bigger stats than CJ will just because of the positions the 2 people play. While I also wouldn't go as far as calling names, I sure would be POed if somebody, in a sense, told me how to run MY TEAM!

[t-birdie 8]

OK, let's add up the number of total posts for the veto group and compare it to the number of total posts for the non-veto group to see who was right.

[Stewburtx8 67]

These joke posts are just as bad if not worse than when people start real threads like this.

 

And it's obvious it's a joke since the OP refuses to say which side is lopsided and even contradicted himself when making a lame attempt to clarify.

 

 

Agreed. Cbfalcon and Mobb_Deep have done this before. Start dumb joke threads to get people up in arms and create some useless 7 page thread. It's completely unnecessary but people really need to stop "arguing" with them. You are not going to win because they will just try to keep this going. The mods should delete these threads before they get legs.

[Dashow28 6]

Agreed. Cbfalcon and Mobb_Deep have done this before. Start dumb joke threads to get people up in arms and create some useless 7 page thread. It's completely unnecessary but people really need to stop "arguing" with them. You are not going to win because they will just try to keep this going. The mods should delete these threads before they get legs.

 

Joke post or not...DOWN WITH THE VETO!!!!

[t-birdie 8]

Agreed. Cbfalcon and Mobb_Deep have done this before. Start dumb joke threads to get people up in arms and create some useless 7 page thread. It's completely unnecessary but people really need to stop "arguing" with them. You are not going to win because they will just try to keep this going. The mods should delete these threads before they get legs.

 

 

Hey, they have to accumulate posts somehow. It increases one's fantasy football knowledge.

[jgcrawfish 232]

wow...the piss and vinegar being sprawed all over the OP is quite surprising.

 

I'm going to err on the side of conservativism in this case. While my heart says that only "collusion" should be vetoed, there's part of me that says the commish has a right to protect idiots from themselves, for the sake of the league. I'm not by any means saying this trade isn't fair, and on the whole I think it was wrong to veto it. However, I believe it's somewhat different for keeper leagues and vastly different for dynastly leagues. I'm in a dynasty league where I can't get over the hump and contend for a championship because my leaguemates make boneheaded trades with teams that are better than they are. You have teams with two top 5 RB's, two top 5 QB's and two top 5 WR's because they're fleecing other teams with trades that probably shouldn't have happened. It's a bad situation because it makes it very frustrating for the rest of the owners like me trying to build a team who still can't compete. So the gist is, I think that in long term leagues sometimes the "veto" has to be looked at as applying a little more broadly than in redraft league.

[Brian Bozworth Fan Club 0]

In fact, only 2 posters in this thread that have over 6,000 posts have even given an opinion Me, and cbfalcon (unless you count GFIAFP), who recommended you rename yourself "Brian Bozworth is Nuts".

 

The fact that we think that, while your supporters are a bunch of guys that each have less than 100 or 1000 total posts...well that should tell you all you need to know about the trade.

 

If this post is indicative of your other 6,000+ posts, I feel sorry for all the FFtoday readers who've had to endure the mindless rhetoric. Do yourself and your keyboard a favor and stop pressing the buttons.

[Stewburtx8 67]

wow...the piss and vinegar being sprawed all over the OP is quite surprising.

 

I'm going to err on the side of conservativism in this case. While my heart says that only "collusion" should be vetoed, there's part of me that says the commish has a right to protect idiots from themselves, for the sake of the league. I'm not by any means saying this trade isn't fair, and on the whole I think it was wrong to veto it. However, I believe it's somewhat different for keeper leagues and vastly different for dynastly leagues. I'm in a dynasty league where I can't get over the hump and contend for a championship because my leaguemates make boneheaded trades with teams that are better than they are. You have teams with two top 5 RB's, two top 5 QB's and two top 5 WR's because they're fleecing other teams with trades that probably shouldn't have happened. It's a bad situation because it makes it very frustrating for the rest of the owners like me trying to build a team who still can't compete. So the gist is, I think that in long term leagues sometimes the "veto" has to be looked at as applying a little more broadly than in redraft league.

 

 

I guess my argument to this would be, if some of your leaguemates are "fleecing" other owners in the league, why can't you make similar trades? If they beat you to it, then you only have yourself to blame. But in general, if this is a major problem, it just sounds like your league may need to look to replace some "bad" owners.

 

It also sounds like the league may not be set up in a way that is conducive to player turnover. This usually leads to one or two "super" teams after a couple years which can be bad for league parity.

[schmitty34 2]

It's completely unnecessary but people really need to stop "arguing" with them.

 

The problem is, you can't stop the people from arguing. You can flat out say this thread is a joke and they blow right past the post to continue the silliness. I think it's kind of funny how obviously fake it is but people get so worked up in the argument that they don't take a step back to realize they are being jerked around by two guys that are just bored and having some fun.

 

It will be interesting to see how many posters miss this post and continue the thread.

[cbfalcon 824]

wow...the piss and vinegar being sprawed all over the OP is quite surprising.

 

I'm going to err on the side of conservativism in this case. While my heart says that only "collusion" should be vetoed, there's part of me that says the commish has a right to protect idiots from themselves, for the sake of the league. I'm not by any means saying this trade isn't fair, and on the whole I think it was wrong to veto it. However, I believe it's somewhat different for keeper leagues and vastly different for dynastly leagues. I'm in a dynasty league where I can't get over the hump and contend for a championship because my leaguemates make boneheaded trades with teams that are better than they are. You have teams with two top 5 RB's, two top 5 QB's and two top 5 WR's because they're fleecing other teams with trades that probably shouldn't have happened. It's a bad situation because it makes it very frustrating for the rest of the owners like me trying to build a team who still can't compete. So the gist is, I think that in long term leagues sometimes the "veto" has to be looked at as applying a little more broadly than in redraft league.

 

This guy gets it.

 

Listen guys, I hate being put into a position to veto a trade just as much as the next guy. But in a keeper or dynasty league, a bad trade like this doesn't just ruin one season. It can ruin many seasons.

 

Then once things get lopsided and you can see there is no hope competing for the next 4 years, you have to go into sell mode in an effort to build for the future. And when a league only has a couple haves and tons of have nots, who are the buyers? The Haves. Thus the rich get richer and richer and richer. The league is ruined of any balance.

 

And why? Because I let that first unfair trade go through.

[Kent 228]

This guy gets it.

 

Listen guys, I hate being put into a position to veto a trade just as much as the next guy. But in a keeper or dynasty league, a bad trade like this doesn't just ruin one season. It can ruin many seasons.

 

Then once things get lopsided and you can see there is no hope competing for the next 4 years, you have to go into sell mode in an effort to build for the future. And when a league only has a couple haves and tons of have nots, who are the buyers? The Haves. Thus the rich get richer and richer and richer. The league is ruined of any balance.

 

And why? Because I let that first unfair trade go through.

 

Who is this trade unfair for? Who's the loser?

 

You haven't made a case so I presume this is a joke thread. Its been entertaining.

[WhiteWonder 2,172]

How can anyone make a case in this instance for obvious collusion given what we know at present.

 

How can one collude when no games have been played??? Guys who think their teams suck could be sitting on winners. Nobody knows anything. I got Dwayne Bowe and Darren McFadden last year fairly late. My team looked awful on paper. I won the league because they both had career years. How can you call a case of obvious collusion when nobody knows who's sitting on the breakout players??? And players will breakout and win titles for people.

 

This is silly.

No no no. I'm saying trades should only be vetoed for collusion. I never said this was a case of collusion.

 

Thus is clearly an idiotic veto and the commish should draft everyone's teams for them in the future. Or better yet, play in a league by himself

[cbfalcon 824]

If I think Nate Burleson is going to outscore Andre Johnson and I was to make that trade, than it is my right as the MANAGER OF MY TEAM.

 

And that would be a clear cut case of collusion. Yeah, maybe I let it go in a redraft, but when you add in the age factor, no way it gets through in a keeper or dynasty league. Thanks for illustrating my point.

[jgcrawfish 232]

I guess my argument to this would be, if some of your leaguemates are "fleecing" other owners in the league, why can't you make similar trades? If they beat you to it, then you only have yourself to blame. But in general, if this is a major problem, it just sounds like your league may need to look to replace some "bad" owners.

 

It also sounds like the league may not be set up in a way that is conducive to player turnover. This usually leads to one or two "super" teams after a couple years which can be bad for league parity.

 

Mostly because some of the fleecing was done prior to my arrival. I didn't get a chance be in on the ADP and MJD's of the world in this league, only to see them end up on the same team. It's a 12 team, IDP, 25 roster team...even with most teams carrying 6 IDP players, 19 roster spots is a deep league. Guys that are in "win now" mode prey on the teams that aren't. I've been on the receiving end of some of those ridiculous offers, only I don't take them. I set out with the goal of rebuilding my team and am competetive but I can't compete with the firepower some of these teams bring. I agree with you though about the need to replace the bad owners. But on that note, I still think the commish needs to be there to protect the integrity and competitiveness of the league from dumbasses.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,594]

CBFalcon, I am going to take the civil route, and not call you an idiot or anything like that for vetoing that trade.

 

Rule 1 in keeper leagues, ALWAYS play for this year, never worry about who might be good 2-3 yrs from now.

 

I am assuming you think the CJ2K/Harvin side is getting hooked up since you mention age. So here we go.

 

See Rule 1.

 

Roddy is older then CJ, but guess what, I will bet that Roddy plays at least 2 more yrs then CJ does, once a speed back goes hes done.

Roddy is arguable the best WR in football, in what looks to be a pass happy Falcons offense.

Both guys are 1st round picks, hell a guy in my league just picked Roddy no 8, and CJ fell to 9

All that being said I will call it a wash

Roddy=CJ

 

again see Rule 1.

Cedric Benson rushed for 1100 yards and 7 tds. Hes the only guarantee on a bad Cincy offense, hes likely to get 20+ touches a game, so likely to avg 70+yrds and a 1/2 td per game. Hes also going around a 5th/6th ADP

Benson makes for a solid RB2/Flex

 

Percy Harvin is a good talent, but he has a bad team, a bad oline and a almost done QB. He had almost every game last yr as a gameday decision. Sure he has upside, and good long term value, but again see RULE 1.

Percy is going around a 5/6 ADP as well, and is basically a WR2/WR3 at best

Benson=Harvin

 

So you vetoed a trade that is swapping 1's and 5/6's because of some stupid age theory?

 

you need to stop a second and look back. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that trade. Much less without looking at the complete rosters, rules, and scoring we dont even know.

[macca 0]

And that would be a clear cut case of collusion. Yeah, maybe I let it go in a redraft, but when you add in the age factor, no way it gets through in a keeper or dynasty league. Thanks for illustrating my point.

 

No, that's called stupidity. I don't think you understand what the word "collude" means. HTH By the way, I get the joke so I'm not going to join in the discussion.

[mobb_deep 917]

And that would be a clear cut case of collusion. Yeah, maybe I let it go in a redraft, but when you add in the age factor, no way it gets through in a keeper or dynasty league. Thanks for illustrating my point.

 

 

Is a trade not you and another owner each entering into an agreement in an effort to improve your teams and only your teams? If so, only tradebacks meet that criteria.

 

Collusion only occurs when one player willingly hurts his own team to help another team, like in this case.

 

People just quickly jump the the conclusion that trades are not collusion because it's a catchy sound bite. But when you think about it, that stance is illogical. Only tradebacks are not collusive by nature.

[t-birdie 8]

And that would be a clear cut case of collusion. Yeah, maybe I let it go in a redraft, but when you add in the age factor, no way it gets through in a keeper or dynasty league. Thanks for illustrating my point.

 

 

Collusion: A secret agreement, especially for fraudulent or treacherous purposes; conspiracy:

[Gladiators 1,904]

This is entertaining...

[cbfalcon 824]

 

Is a trade not you and another owner each entering into an agreement in an effort to improve your teams and only your teams? If so, only tradebacks meet that criteria.

 

Collusion only occurs when one player willingly hurts his own team to help another team, like in this case.

 

People just quickly jump the the conclusion that trades are not collusion because it's a catchy sound bite. But when you think about it, that stance is illogical. Only tradebacks are not collusive by nature.

 

This post came off as a tangent. Yet I found myself agreeing with a lot of it.

 

Going back to the trade I was forced to veto, I'm honestly pretty surprised to be getting this much flack. Who wants to play in a league in which one team is loaded for the next 4 years, while the rest of the league sucks? What fun is that? And isn't FF about fun?

[mobb_deep 917]

This post came off as a tangent. Yet I found myself agreeing with a lot of it.

 

Going back to the trade I was forced to veto, I'm honestly pretty surprised to be getting this much flack. Who wants to play in a league in which one team is loaded for the next 4 years, while the rest of the league sucks? What fun is that? And isn't FF about fun?

 

Exactly.

 

I'm in a league like that, and it's not fun. We have two owners (let's call them Ed and Gary), who have the worst teams ever. They have such bad teams, because nobody stepped in to help them not destroy their own teams with lopsided trades like this. In the process they unintentionally changed the competitive balance of the entire league. Now they want to tradeback a few players, but the 2 other owners involved (Chris and Erich) are up in arms about it all.

[t-birdie 8]

Exactly.

 

I'm in a league like that, and it's not fun. We have two owners (let's call them Ed and Gary), who have the worst teams ever. They have such bad teams, because nobody stepped in to help them not destroy their own teams with lopsided trades like this. In the process they unintentionally changed the competitive balance of the entire league. Now they want to tradeback a few players, but the 2 other owners involved (Chris and Erich) are up in arms about it all.

 

 

Yet you guys still haven't said which side is getting the better deal - or are you even in agreement? I'll take RWhite and CBenson in a dynasty league.

[kilomantis 6]

Chris Johnson and Percy Harvin for Roddy White and Ced Benson.

 

I'm not one for vetoing fair trades, or even trades where someone has a 60/40 edge, but this one wasn't even close. If Johnson was in camp, and he and Harvin were closer to the same age as Roddy and Benson, it would be a pretty fair trade. But with one guy's status in question, plus one side of the trade being skewed younger (it is a keeper league afterall), it wasn't the type trade I could allow through the cracks with a clear conscience.

 

The owners involved are pretty pisssed at me, but I gave them the option of reworking it so it's not so lopsided. It's frustrating that owners are already trying to pull these type maneuvers and we haven't even played a real game yet.

 

They see me trollin', they hatin'....

[cbfalcon 824]

They see me trollin', they hatin'....

 

says the guy with 6 posts.

[FeelingMN 273]

I just hope as commish you intervened during the draft when somone wanted to select Tony Gonzalez. There are much better....and younger options out there. Don't let somebody make the mistake of choosing the wrong players during the draft. It could really screw up the competitive balance of the league.

[Stewburtx8 67]

Mostly because some of the fleecing was done prior to my arrival. I didn't get a chance be in on the ADP and MJD's of the world in this league, only to see them end up on the same team. It's a 12 team, IDP, 25 roster team...even with most teams carrying 6 IDP players, 19 roster spots is a deep league. Guys that are in "win now" mode prey on the teams that aren't. I've been on the receiving end of some of those ridiculous offers, only I don't take them. I set out with the goal of rebuilding my team and am competetive but I can't compete with the firepower some of these teams bring. I agree with you though about the need to replace the bad owners. But on that note, I still think the commish needs to be there to protect the integrity and competitiveness of the league from dumbasses.

 

 

That makes sense. Joining an already established dynasty league can be difficult sometimes when some teams are set up as very strong contenders for the long haul. Even if you do a very admirable job of rebuiling your team, you could be stuck in a spot where you can never pass the truly elite teams.

 

The problem with the commish doing that is, where do you draw the line? The commish can't just pick and choose which trades he deems fair and which ones he doesn't. If he was that good at trade evaluating then he would never lose. I think you either need to replace bad owners, or live with the fact that there may always be the "haves" and "have nots" in dynasty leagues.

[cbfalcon 824]

I just hope as commish you intervened during the draft when somone wanted to select Tony Gonzalez. There are much better....and younger options out there. Don't let somebody make the mistake of choosing the wrong players during the draft. It could really screw up the competitive balance of the league.

 

 

It doesn't happen very often. But in my 6 years as a commish, I've maybe had to veto 4 or 5 draft picks.

 

People can have different opinions and whatnot, but if you let people do stupid things like draft 6th rounders in the 2nd, it'll throw off the competitive balance of the league. You need to have 12 teams that have a decent shot at the beginning of the season. Otherwise what's the point of a 12 team league?

[t-birdie 8]

It doesn't happen very often. But in my 6 years as a commish, I've maybe had to veto 4 or 5 draft picks.

 

People can have different opinions and whatnot, but if you let people do stupid things like draft 6th rounders in the 2nd, it'll throw off the competitive balance of the league. You need to have 12 teams that have a decent shot at the beginning of the season. Otherwise what's the point of a 12 team league?

 

 

Good God, he was joking about vetoing draft picks. Now I'm convinced this is a joke thread.

[titan20 0]

A. You two won't flat out say what side you think got the better end (saying its obvious doesn't count, at least my 2000 posts says so)

 

B. You should post the rosters of both teams, cause thats the only way I might see how this is unfair.

 

C. How does how many posts you have make you smarter than anyone else? Someone could read fantasy football information for hours eveyday and never make a post, and someone else could quote the first person in every thread and give a thumbs up, and yo would trust the guy with more posts? How much you read and learn determines how much you know, not how much you write.

[cbfalcon 824]

Good God, he was joking about vetoing draft picks. Now I'm convinced this is a joke thread.

 

I have vetoed selections before and made people pick someone else, but not unless the player is taken more than 2 or 3 rounds too early..and never say past the 8th round because it's more open to interpretation at that point.

 

I assume this happens in every draft? Maybe the term "veto" is too strong, since they get a redo.

[KojackDaniels 5]

This thread makes me want to drink.

 

(But not before artificially inflating my post count)

[FeelingMN 273]

It doesn't happen very often. But in my 6 years as a commish, I've maybe had to veto 4 or 5 draft picks.

 

People can have different opinions and whatnot, but if you let people do stupid things like draft 6th rounders in the 2nd, it'll throw off the competitive balance of the league. You need to have 12 teams that have a decent shot at the beginning of the season. Otherwise what's the point of a 12 team league?

 

At least you are consistent, and that is perhaps the most important quality in a commish. From what you say, your leaguemates adore you. They appreciate the job you're doing...so you must be doing something right. As a fellow commish, I understand how difficult it is to appease a collection of bored, middle-aged white dudes...who are probably drunk most of the time and can grow quite belligerent....and will sometimes try to forcibly enter your home while you and your family are asleep....because nobody told him not to draft Tony Gonzalez. I get it man....and to be honest, I always left the iron fist for someobdy else. But for the sake of true competitive balance, I will pick up that iron fist and rule my league like those fockers deserve to be ruled.

 

A commish without an iron fist is nothing but a punk ass b!tch.

[t-birdie 8]

I have vetoed selections before and made people pick someone else, but not unless the player is taken more than 2 or 3 rounds too early..and never say past the 8th round because it's more open to interpretation at that point.

 

I assume this happens in every draft? Maybe the term "veto" is too strong, since they get a redo.

 

 

We just have the commissioner create 12 individual teams he feels are equally competitive - and then we are assigned one randomly at the draft. No trades are allowed and starting lineups have already been pre-determined. Then the commish takes each one of us to the restroom and holds our penises so we don't pee on the seat.

[jerryskids 5,212]

I have more posts than cbfalcon and mobb_deep combined. Ergo, I could resolve this right now, but I won't. It is important that you youngin's work through this and figure it out, in your lifelong quest for fantasy football wisdom. Good luck and god speed.

[schmitty34 2]

We just have the commissioner create 12 individual teams he feels are equally competitive - and then we are assigned one randomly at the draft. No trades are allowed and starting lineups have already been pre-determined. Then the commish takes each one of us to the restroom and holds our penises so we don't pee on the seat.

 

It looks like you have now figured out what this thread is all about.....

[cbfalcon 824]

I have more posts than cbfalcon and mobb_deep combined. Ergo, I could resolve this right now, but I won't. It is important that you youngin's work through this and figure it out, in your lifelong quest for fantasy football wisdom. Good luck and god speed.

 

As a poster that respects his postcount elders, I appreciate that very much.

[swirvenirvin 25]

It's pretty obvious. If you don't know who got ripped off in that trade, then can I join your league please?

It's a keeper league, so yeah I don't know. I'll take CJ and Harvin, bs roddy White and Benson who has maybe one yr of tread left

[kilomantis 6]

This thread makes me want to drink.

 

(But not before artificially inflating my post count)

 

I wanna drink and inflate my post count too. I now have 7X the fantasy knowledge you do!!! Bow before me!!!

[southcarolina 166]

It doesn't happen very often. But in my 6 years as a commish, I've maybe had to veto 4 or 5 draft picks.

 

People can have different opinions and whatnot, but if you let people do stupid things like draft 6th rounders in the 2nd, it'll throw off the competitive balance of the league. You need to have 12 teams that have a decent shot at the beginning of the season. Otherwise what's the point of a 12 team league?

 

 

I bet all the anti-veto people in this thread were probably anti-Joe Webb people too.

[swirvenirvin 25]

In fact, only 2 posters in this thread that have over 6,000 posts have even given an opinion Me, and cbfalcon (unless you count GFIAFP), who recommended you rename yourself "Brian Bozworth is Nuts".

 

The fact that we think that, while your supporters are a bunch of guys that each have less than 100 or 1000 total posts...well that should tell you all you need to know about the trade.

How about me, I think its bushleague to veto the trade