I've Fallen and I Can't Get Up

[penultimatestraw 473]

I strongly disagree. When it's upper back the nerve shoots straight up into your neck and brain. Those zingers feel like your brain is getting tazed.

Ummm, when people have upper back pain due to nerves, the pain typically impacts the tissues below the level of the the compressed nerves only. Anatomically there are no nerves sensing pain which travel down from your head to your upper back then up again to be processed by the brain. What you're describing sounds like one of the symptoms of multiple sclerosis. My link

Lhermitte’s sign is a brief, stabbing, electric-shock-like sensation that runs from the back of the head down the spine, brought on by bending the neck forward. Medications, including anticonvulsants, may be used to prevent the pain, or a soft collar may be used to limit neck flexion.

Then again, you may want to look into Jerry's book.

[nikki2200 4]

Ummm, when people have upper back pain due to nerves, the pain typically impacts the tissues below the level of the the compressed nerves only. Anatomically there are no nerves sensing pain which travel down from your head to your upper back then up again to be processed by the brain. What you're describing sounds like one of the symptoms of multiple sclerosis. My link Then again, you may want to look into Jerry's book.

 

Oh dear god.

 

Yea... I think Imma go ahead and trust my doctors on this one. HUGE

 

OMG

[naomi 361]

I've had that happen to me a few times. Luckily my doctor specializes in sports medicine so he also has mad chiropractic skillz. Fixed my sexy ass right up.

 

Also, lower back pain is the second worst pain you can have. I rank toof pain just a little worse.

 

A handful of times a year I get this excruciating piercing/burning fleeting pain. It usually happens in my upper arms and lasts from what seems like a millisecond to two seconds. Once it maintained for a few seconds and I fell out of a chair because I clutched my arm and violently rocked (knee-jerk reaction). It feels like acid burning nerves, or maybe muscles, but the affected channel is apparently crazy sensitive so I lean nerves. It's insane. It makes me wonder if it's been providential that I haven't driven (yet). I've had it for probably 10+ years, and can't predict when it will happen.

[Quiet Man 0]

Long story short...

 

I was bending down to pickup the laundry basket, when the most excruciating pain shot through my lower back. Bad enough to make me cry out. And I'm not a pvssy about pain either. Me and pain are old friends... but that's another story for another day.

 

It must have taken me at least a couple of minutes before I could straighten back up, and not without feeling that stabbing pain in my back again. If I move just the slightest way in the wrong direction, it feels like someone took a white-hot poker and decimated my lower spine.

 

Ha-ha... yeah, this would be funny if it didn't hurt so focking bad. Needless to say, I've spent the afternoon heavily medicated... not moving on the sofa.

 

Go ahead... laugh it up!

 

The obvious solution is to get THE OM a few doses of Robitussin....works EVERY TIME! Good Luck!

[jerryskids 7,192]

While "stress" can certainly contribute to pain anywhere, the are plenty of legitimate anatomic reasons for low back pain. As you said, almost all adults have damage to their disks, but not all damage is the same. Basically disks are rubbery shock absorbers between our vertebra which degrade over time. Inside the tough outer covering is a creamy center which can ooze out when a disk herniates. This material directly compresses nerves which pass through small openings in the vertebral column and pain results. Low back pain is far more likely than upper back pain because the lower spine (and disks) bears a greater portion of our weight, among other reasons. Upper back pain, on the other hand, is rarely due to disk disease and more likely muscular in nature. I hate to attribute anything to stress, but arguably tension due to it and bad posture may promote muscle spasms of the upper back. Unlike low back pain, nerves are seldom compressed. So its understandable that your wife's pain may respond to measures which target her mental state while OldMaid's will not. This is not to say that one's atitude towards pain won't influence its perception. But nobody is "willing away" a crushed nerve.

 

Analgesics (ibuprofen/NSAIDS or stronger meds (narcotics) if needed in the short term) and time for the body to degrade the disk debris are most important. Sometimes the damage is more severe, and surgery to open up the path where the nerve travels may be necessary if one experiences weakness, numbness or uncontrollable pain. But conservative measures, including exercises to strengthen the muscles of the low back and abdomen, to protect the alignment of the spine usually result in the same long-term functionality.

 

I've had back pain which began while lifting weights. It hurt at first and has flared up a couple of times but rarely bothers me now because I corrected my bad posture and strengthened my core muscles, not my mind. For those saying back pain is the worst, try breaking a large bone or passing a kidney stone. Or give birth.

 

And there are plenty of ulcers out there, though the rate has declined. And no, it isn't because they were linked to "stress". My link

 

How will she know if she doesn't try? The main issue discussed in the book is lower back pain.

 

I fully understand that most docs consider it quackery. Some unfortunately are driven by the multi-billion pain management industry. Most, like yourself, have spent the bulk of your life finding anatomical/physiological solutions to problems, so the idea that the problem could be psychological is difficult to consider let alone accept.

 

If you deal with patients with chronic pain, IMO you are doing them a disservice if you don't at least read the book before blowing it off.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

I would 2nd jerry's recommendation. If I remember correctly, the book talks about anatomical back issues as well. It does not say that ALL back pain can be addressed by dealing with the mind component. It says that most do not have issues that require surgery, painkillers and other associated "remedies".

 

If I had back pain, I would consider it.

[penultimatestraw 473]

How will she know if she doesn't try? The main issue discussed in the book is lower back pain.

 

I fully understand that most docs consider it quackery. Some unfortunately are driven by the multi-billion pain management industry. Most, like yourself, have spent the bulk of your life finding anatomical/physiological solutions to problems, so the idea that the problem could be psychological is difficult to consider let alone accept.

 

If you deal with patients with chronic pain, IMO you are doing them a disservice if you don't at least read the book before blowing it off.

Quite the contrary, Jerry. Most doctors are well versed in the "mental" component to pain perception - so much so that it is often under-treated, dismissed as psychosomatic. While there are a few bad apples who peddle narcotics like a street dealer, there are others who prescribe meds to their "crazy" patients just to shut them up, such that they can tend to others with more easily defined illnesses.

 

The truth of the matter is, few docs enjoy treating chronic pain as it is hard to measure objectively and there is mistrust because of the abuse of prescription meds. But there is plenty of data to show that those with chronic pain syndromes process painful stimuli differently than the rest of us.

 

Oldmaid doesn't sound like one of those people - this is an acute episode of pain brought on by activity. It should be evaluated and treated as such until proven otherwise. When demonstrable pathology is excluded, psychosomatic causes are considered, not the other way around. Your wife and Nikki are in a different boat, based on the descriptions in your posts.

 

I'm not saying ignore your book, but why would it be more valuable to read than the hundreds of other resources on pain management? There are only so many hours in the day.

[OldMaid 2,137]

Quite the contrary, Jerry. Most doctors are well versed in the "mental" component to pain perception - so much so that it is often under-treated, dismissed as psychosomatic. While there are a few bad apples who peddle narcotics like a street dealer, there are others who prescribe meds to their "crazy" patients just to shut them up, such that they can tend to others with more easily defined illnesses.

 

The truth of the matter is, few docs enjoy treating chronic pain as it is hard to measure objectively and there is mistrust because of the abuse of prescription meds. But there is plenty of data to show that those with chronic pain syndromes process painful stimuli differently than the rest of us.

 

Oldmaid doesn't sound like one of those people - this is an acute episode of pain brought on by activity. It should be evaluated and treated as such until proven otherwise. When demonstrable pathology is excluded, psychosomatic causes are considered, not the other way around. Your wife and Nikki are in a different boat, based on the descriptions in your posts.

 

I'm not saying ignore your book, but why would it be more valuable to read than the hundreds of other resources on pain management? There are only so many hours in the day.

Bingo. If this were chronic pain, then Jerry's book may have some creedence, but it's not. It's acute. As a matter-of-fact, this is the first time I've ever experienced anything like this.

[nikki2200 4]

Bingo. If this were chronic pain, then Jerry's book may have some creedence, but it's not. It's acute. As a matter-of-fact, this is the first time I've ever experienced anything like this.

 

Do you feel better? Did you take a bunch of advil?

 

Don't listen to these people. Apparently I have multiple sclerosis. I should have my orthopedic surgeon forward my scans to the members of FFT for a second opinion, because he doesn't know what he is doing.

 

For the record, I wouldn't say I have "chronic pain". I have a displaced disk in my upper back as a result of falling down a flight of stairs. Freak rare injury.... yes. It actually hasn't acted up in years, but mostly that is because I have learned there are certain limitations in my life and things I cannot do anymore. For instance, ignoring the warning signs flashing all over the place on P90X saying do not perform the workouts if you have a bad back are not something that should be ignored... apparently. Shoulder stands = bad.

 

Or maybe this will be me in 5 years: http://www.newdisability.com/Wheelchair%20Umbrella/Umbrella%20Buddy%20Wheelchair%202.jpg

[DankNuggs 305]

Doctor says I need a backiotomy

[DankNuggs 305]

Do you feel better? Did you take a bunch of advil?

 

Do you really care if she feels better, or is it simply an opportunity to interject your own life stories in a vapid competitive plea for attention?

 

I know I'm getting a little jerryskids here... But sometimes the problem is psychological....

[OldMaid 2,137]

Do you feel better? Did you take a bunch of advil?

 

Don't listen to these people. Apparently I have multiple sclerosis. I should have my orthopedic surgeon forward my scans to the members of FFT for a second opinion, because he doesn't know what he is doing.

 

For the record, I wouldn't say I have "chronic pain". I have a displaced disk in my upper back as a result of falling down a flight of stairs. Freak rare injury.... yes. It actually hasn't acted up in years, but mostly that is because I have learned there are certain limitations in my life and things I cannot do anymore. For instance, ignoring the warning signs flashing all over the place on P90X saying do not perform the workouts if you have a bad back are not something that should be ignored... apparently. Shoulder stands = bad.

 

Or maybe this will be me in 5 years: http://www.newdisability.com/Wheelchair%20Umbrella/Umbrella%20Buddy%20Wheelchair%202.jpg

 

Yeah... it's much better. I ended up taking Naproxen instead of Advil, and taking it easy for a couple of days. It's stil a little sore-but nothing near the level of what is was. I'm sure I just tweaked something, that's all.

 

 

 

Also, that's hot!

[shotsup 836]

Do you really care if she feels better, or is it simply an opportunity to interject your own life stories in a vapid competitive plea for attention?

 

I know I'm getting a little jerryskids here... But sometimes the problem is psychological....

 

 

You mean like LOOOOK at Mereeee

[nikki2200 4]

Yeah... it's much better. I ended up taking Naproxen instead of Advil, and taking it easy for a couple of days. It's stil a little sore-but nothing near the level of what is was. I'm sure I just tweaked something, that's all.

 

 

 

Also, that's hot!

 

Wanna sit in my lap and roll around?

[shotsup 836]

Wanna sit in my lap and roll around?

That's my line

[nikki2200 4]

Do you really care if she feels better, or is it simply an opportunity to interject your own life stories in a vapid competitive plea for attention?

 

I know I'm getting a little jerryskids here... But sometimes the problem is psychological....

 

Yea. After being friends with OldMaid for what, 5 years now, I couldn't give a shiit if she's in pain. Actually I thought it was really funny and was hoping she'd get syphilis and go blind too just for giggles.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I have recently had a problem where my lower back spasms, sometimes causing my right leg to twitch like a dog when you find the itchy spot. That is awesome, especially when driving.

 

I read an interesting article today that claims that much of our fatigue and pain is due to too little oxygen, because most of us breath inefficiently. I know the source is not great, but still interesting.

 

link

[penultimatestraw 473]

Do you feel better? Did you take a bunch of advil?

 

Don't listen to these people. Apparently I have multiple sclerosis. I should have my orthopedic surgeon forward my scans to the members of FFT for a second opinion, because he doesn't know what he is doing.

 

For the record, I wouldn't say I have "chronic pain". I have a displaced disk in my upper back as a result of falling down a flight of stairs. Freak rare injury.... yes. It actually hasn't acted up in years, but mostly that is because I have learned there are certain limitations in my life and things I cannot do anymore. For instance, ignoring the warning signs flashing all over the place on P90X saying do not perform the workouts if you have a bad back are not something that should be ignored... apparently. Shoulder stands = bad.

 

Or maybe this will be me in 5 years: http://www.newdisability.com/Wheelchair%20Umbrella/Umbrella%20Buddy%20Wheelchair%202.jpg

Nikki, I was fvcking with you. After I learned your stance on vaccines, I figured you'd believe anything you read on the internet. Does your back injury impact your ability to recognize sarcasm?

 

And who pushed you down the stairs?

[penultimatestraw 473]

I have recently had a problem where my lower back spasms, sometimes causing my right leg to twitch like a dog when you find the itchy spot. That is awesome, especially when driving.

 

I read an interesting article today that claims that much of our fatigue and pain is due to too little oxygen, because most of us breath inefficiently. I know the source is not great, but still interesting.

 

link

Source aside, I don't think that article is claiming most of our pain/fatigue results from too little oxygen. If that were the case, wouldn't you expect people who live at higher altitudes to experience more pain and have less energy than those at lower elevations?

 

Speaking of sh!tty sources, did you happen to check the credentials of the "expert" linked in the article? He's a strength coach and massage therapist - why would believe his opinion on pulmonary physiology?

[nikki2200 4]

Nikki, I was fvcking with you. After I learned your stance on vaccines, I figured you'd believe anything you read on the internet. Does your back injury impact your ability to recognize sarcasm?

 

And who pushed you down the stairs?

 

Oops!

[jerryskids 7,192]

In a remarkable stroke of irony, I think I re-broke my foot tonight. That would be an acute injury, for those keeping score.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

In a remarkable stroke of irony, I think I re-broke my foot tonight. That would be an acute injury, for those keeping score.

 

Just think positive thoughts jerry

 

 

Hope your foot is okay

[Giants Fan 85]

Don't they teach girls how to lift? You lift with your boobs!

 

No, I'm just kidding. You lift with your knees. And your hefty, hefty thighs.

 

No seriously ... sorry hun but you need an MRI for a proper diagnosis, but it sounds exactly like my herniated L5 S1 ... which is a sack in your lower back, that if inflamed can pinch on the sciatic nerve and cause a lot of pain. Feels like it's in your hip joint, kinda?

 

You are going to hafta be more careful from now on. Use your boobs to get men to lift things for you.

[nikki2200 4]

In a remarkable stroke of irony, I think I re-broke my foot tonight. That would be an acute injury, for those keeping score.

 

Hey. Did you hear there's a book out there that basically says any pain you feel is a result of a mental issue you are having? You should check it out.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

J/K Hope you get better.

[SUXBNME 1,625]

I'm not going to get in an argument about who hurts more. :-P As I said above, I have a problem with a disc in my upper back. Sometimes the pain decides to shoot upwards - towards the neck and brain. Sometimes it shoots downwards. Either way, you have serious problems moving and getting around. However, I would rather have the downward shooting pain every single day of my life for the rest of my life then the upward shooting kind for three days. When it focks with your neck and your ability to turn your head or even hold your head upright, it is pure living hell.

 

HTH!!!

This is where you lost all credibility

[SUXBNME 1,625]

Hey. Did you hear there's a book out there that basically says any pain you feel is a result of a mental issue you are having? You should check it out.

 

[Giants Fan 85]

It took me years, actually to get diagnosed myself. Herniated a disk in my back and broke my leg at the same time, and only was diagnosed for the broken leg, until I got an MRI, several years later full of extreme pain.

 

Advil helps. I used to take a LOT of Advil. I don't need it so much anymore. Stretching ... physical therapy.

 

Lower back injuries are serious, and can lead to long lasting extreme pain if you are not proactive about it.

 

Just from my own personal experience.

 

Luckily, I never got Rxed Oxy ... don't take that shiat. Heroin is cheaper. Advil ... stretch every day ... maybe try and lose just 5 pounds. You'll feel better.

[SUXBNME 1,625]

 

Lower back injuries are serious, and can lead to long lasting extreme pain if you are not proactive about it.

 

Just from my own personal experience.

What does getting your nose broken from trannys have to do with lower back pain?

[penultimatestraw 473]

In a remarkable stroke of irony, I think I re-broke my foot tonight. That would be an acute injury, for those keeping score.

As much as I'd like to pile on, I hope you're on the mend and pain-free ASAP.

 

BTW, I read a bit about the author of your book and his methodology. A lot of what he says isn't radical at all. Cognitive behavioral therapy and biofeedback are other "alternative" approaches to the treatment of pain and fatigue which may have some merit. He loses me when he totally invalidates a physical/structural problem contributing to pain, while simultaneously suggesting conventional medical evaluation be pursued. Reminds me of a bunch of other commercialized "alternative" practitioners: they'll promote their products/propaganda at the expense of conventional therapies, but when the sh!t hits the fan they dump their patients on regular doctors.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Don't they teach girls how to lift? You lift with your boobs!

 

No, I'm just kidding. You lift with your knees. And your hefty, hefty thighs.

 

No seriously ... sorry hun but you need an MRI for a proper diagnosis, but it sounds exactly like my herniated L5 S1 ... which is a sack in your lower back, that if inflamed can pinch on the sciatic nerve and cause a lot of pain. Feels like it's in your hip joint, kinda?

 

You are going to hafta be more careful from now on. Use your boobs to get men to lift things for you.

MRI is only necessary if the pain is refractory or she has compromised strength/sensation. The diagnosis can be made based on history and exam most of the time, and usually will get better without aggressive work up or intervention.

[Giants Fan 85]

I've actually learned to sleep in a way that stretches my lower back. I switch from side to side, and I have one foot dangling over the edge of the mattress ... and by kinda humping the mattress ... I can stretch out that leg and my hammys ... I dunno ... it just hits the spot for me, your injury is likely different, but it may change your life.

 

My initial injury was over 20 years ago, and I still can't stand still for an hour. Like if I hafta wait in line, after about 20 minutes I hafta squat and stretch my back. Or give me a stool to sit on, or somethin. I once hurt my back, giving an extra long lecture when I was teaching. I need to sit. I'm ok walking long distances ... standing still I can't do.

 

So, I can't work at 7-11 for instance. I prolly can't be a blackjack dealer because they have to stand, I'd be a jerk as a poker dealer ... lotta jobs, I just can't do.

 

Gubmint says my physical and mental combo is not severe enough to make me "disabled". I disagree.

[nikki2200 4]

As much as I'd like to pile on, I hope you're on the mend and pain-free ASAP.

 

BTW, I read a bit about the author of your book and his methodology. A lot of what he says isn't radical at all. Cognitive behavioral therapy and biofeedback are other "alternative" approaches to the treatment of pain and fatigue which may have some merit. He loses me when he totally invalidates a physical/structural problem contributing to pain, while simultaneously suggesting conventional medical evaluation be pursued. Reminds me of a bunch of other commercialized "alternative" practitioners: they'll promote their products/propaganda at the expense of conventional therapies, but when the sh!t hits the fan they dump their patients on regular doctors.

 

I understand the whole concept and I don't think it is total BS. I mean maybe I read too much on the interwebs but I'm one of those people that thinks fibromyalgia is not a real disease and it's basically a bunch of people suffering from depression, and therefore experiencing the symptoms that accompany it, which a lot of times can be unexplained aches and pains. But jerry likes to bring up this book whenever anyone talks about back pain and it is a bit insulting. I'm sure there are a lot of cases of people that get muscle spasms or general pain due to depression or stress. That does not mean that anyone that suffers back pain can read a book and it will automagically go away. I wish it were that simple and I could do P90X Yoga X again some day after reading a magic book.

[Giants Fan 85]

I've had lower back spasms.

 

They are one of the most painful things you will ever experience, but they are fleeting.

 

All you can do is rest it. If you don't rest it, you will have more spasms.

 

Feels like, getting shocked with a cattle prod or something. Not fun.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I understand the whole concept and I don't think it is total BS. I mean maybe I read too much on the interwebs but I'm one of those people that thinks fibromyalgia is not a real disease and it's basically a bunch of people suffering from depression, and therefore experiencing the symptoms that accompany it, which a lot of times can be unexplained aches and pains. But jerry likes to bring up this book whenever anyone talks about back pain and it is a bit insulting. I'm sure there are a lot of cases of people that get muscle spasms or general pain due to depression or stress. That does not mean that anyone that suffers back pain can read a book and it will automagically go away. I wish it were that simple and I could do P90X Yoga X again some day after reading a magic book.

It's no coincidence that some of the meds used to treat FM are antidepressants.

 

And Jerry is the king of implying his openminded allows understanding things the rest of us are too dumb to comprehend.

[Giants Fan 85]

Can be kind of embarasing ... standing in line at the grocery and all of a sudden, "Ahhh! Ooooh! Man ... sorry ... I'm having back spasms. I need to stretch."

 

My main stretch is lying on my back, I pull one knee to my chest, and hold it for 30 seconds, then I pull the other, and then I pull both. That stretches out my muscles in my lower back enough, to usually prevent spasms.

 

 

P.S. Doc said the same thing to me when I was 20. "You can take as much ibuprofen as you need. It says 4 on the bottle, but you can take up to 12."

[OldMaid 2,137]

First of all, I don't really think this is a major injury, as it has pretty much already subsided. And secondly, I don't need to lose an extra 5 lbs or start stretching. I workout everyday, either swimming, elliptical, pilates or yoga... and would consider myself to be in good shape. I am 5'7" and weigh 125lbs., I'm pretty sure that doesn't qualify as overweight.

 

Now, can we go back to talking about sitting on Nikki's lap and going for a spin?

[Giants Fan 85]

Also ... no sex for 30 days. No dildos either.

[nikki2200 4]

First of all, I don't really think this is a major injury, as it has pretty much already subsided. And secondly, I don't need to lose an extra 5 lbs or start stretching. I workout everyday, either swimming, elliptical, pilates or yoga... and would consider myself to be in good shape. I am 5'7" and weigh 125lbs., I'm pretty sure that doesn't qualify as overweight.

 

Now, can we go back to talking about sitting on Nikki's lap and going for a spin?

 

I was actually typing up a post about how you didn't need to lose any weight and you were in perfect shape, but decided against it. I think it's just better to let GFIAFP prattle on.

 

The only muscular back pain I've ever experienced was in my lower back from sitting in one place for too long or standing up cooking for too long and it's usually more soreness than it is sharp shooting pains like you were describing. So that's why I thought maybe you did something bad to it. But it seems like muscular problems can result in pressing on nerves from what people are saying hence the sharp shooting pain sensation. I'm glad you are OK, but I feared the WORST!!!!

 

Now let's roll around in my wheelchair with a bottle of Captain. Seriously... how fun would that be????? Maybe we could even play chicken with gocolts.

[penultimatestraw 473]

First of all, I don't really think this is a major injury, as it has pretty much already subsided. And secondly, I don't need to lose an extra 5 lbs or start stretching. I workout everyday, either swimming, elliptical, pilates or yoga... and would consider myself to be in good shape. I am 5'7" and weigh 125lbs., I'm pretty sure that doesn't qualify as overweight.

 

Now, can we go back to talking about sitting on Nikki's lap and going for a spin?

I also am a healthy weight and exercise almost daily. After I injured my back I changed the types of exercise I do, and I think it has allowed my back to heal such that I seldom have troubles with it. Of course it's impossible to know what would've happened had I continued doing the same things. But injuring your back doing something as minor as laundry suggests there is room for improvement in your regimen.

 

There is a great expression: "The enemy of good is great." You may never have trouble with your back again, but I'd use this minor incident as an opportunity to lessen the chance that you do.

[OldMaid 2,137]

 

Now let's roll around in my wheelchair with a bottle of Captain. Seriously... how fun would that be????? Maybe we could even play chicken with gocolts.

 

 

 

The mental image that provided was priceless.