Do you think American society is getting better overall?

[Phurfur 70]

the flexibility, diligence and industrial skills of foreign workers have so outpaced their American counterparts that “Made in the U.S.A.” is no longer a viable option

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

 

 

 

[MDC 7,889]

An eight-hour drive from that glass factory is a complex, known informally as Foxconn City, where the iPhone is assembled. To Apple executives, Foxconn City was further evidence that China could deliver workers — and diligence — that outpaced their American counterparts.

That’s because nothing like Foxconn City exists in the United States.

 

The facility has 230,000 employees, many working six days a week, often spending up to 12 hours a day at the plant. Over a quarter of Foxconn’s work force lives in company barracks and many workers earn less than $17 a day. When one Apple executive arrived during a shift change, his car was stuck in a river of employees streaming past. “The scale is unimaginable,” he said.

 

Lazy Americans, unwilling to live in dormitoreis and work six 12-hour days per week for less than $100.

[TD Ryan2 316]

 

Lazy Americans, unwilling to live in dormitoreis and work six 12-hour days per week for less than $100.

No no this is OK, clearly those workers didn't go to college and haven't worked hard enough or been responsible enough to do better for themselves.

[parrot 789]

 

Lazy Americans, unwilling to live in dormitoreis and work six 12-hour days per week for less than $100.

Flexibility and diligence.

[JT 137]

Phurphur has discovered a larger, bold font, so things are definitely worse.

[MDC 7,889]

Flexibility and diligence.

If only those Chinese slave laborers worker harder and went to college, they wouldn't be reduced to underselling US workers for low wage manufacturing jobs.

[NewbieJr 541]

Phurphur has discovered a larger, bold font, so things are definitely worse.

It's the only way he can see what he's typing now. Soon, it will be braille.

[Phurfur 70]

If only those Chinese slave laborers worker harder and went to college, they wouldn't be reduced to underselling US workers for low wage manufacturing jobs.

Actually these jobs are pulling the Chinese worker out of real poverty (not the fake poverty we talk about in this country).

[MDC 7,889]

Actually these jobs are pulling the Chinese worker out of real poverty (not the fake poverty we talk about in this country).

Less than $17/day is no longer pulling them out of poverty?

 

Interesting to see how you admire Chinese working standards.

[Lord4GL 4]

I think this is the type of question with a ton of supporting evidence either way. If you think things are getting better, you can point toward increased lifespan, better access to education and healthcare, increased technology etc. as the reason why. And if you think things are getting worse, you can point toward higher crime, poverty rates, declining influence in the world etc. How you answer also depends greatly on who you are. I'm sure the world looks a lot better to women and minorities now than it did in the 1950s. I'm sure it looks a lot worse to middle class whites. It all depends on your perspective.

 

I'm inclined to say we're trending downward right now and have been since the 1980s or so. Our global influence and economic / military dominance is in decline and has been for a while. The trend toward economic globalization has caused a "race to the bottom" and just decimated US manufacturing and the working class. There's just no way a blue collar guy can compete with a pennies-on-the-dollar worker in India or China unless he's willing to work for a sub- living wage. I really worry that we're heading toward the kind of society you see in emerging 2nd world countries, where a very small group of people are very wealthy and a very large group of the population are working poor or in poverty.

 

I don't know what the answer is but I do think there used to be a sense of shared responsibility in America that's largely gone. At one time companies might have been ashamed to pay CEOs 350 times more than their average worker, outsource jobs overseas, operate through tax shelters etc. Today it's all about the dollar with no sustainable long-term vision.

 

So that's one thing I worry about.

 

The other thing is just the coarsening of our narcissistic, me-first celebrity worship culture, which is all about being young rich and hot and does not in any way value things like having integrity or being intelligent or a good person. The 24/7 news cycle and the Internet have given people access to an incredible amount of information but it has not taught people to be thoughtful or critical thinkers.

 

I can't say people are stupider today than they were 50 years ago but I do think attention spans are a lot shorter and in general people are a lot more full of themselves and concerned about the wrong things. Course, I'm sure people were saying the same thing in the 1950s so who the hell knows.

You can add a bunch more to this list. Corrupt union bosses, teachers, etc. Politicians, government bureaucrats, labor, corporations, media, etc. are all in bed together one way or another. Just a bunch of people ensuring they take as much as they can for their own power. They’ll screw you or anyone else, if they can get further ahead.

All of the things you specify as downtrends could be tied to moral issues. <Fill in the blank> (Corporations, unions, politicians, etc) don’t think about was is best for anyone other than themselves. Does anyone here really think the group of thieves in DC really care about people? Of course they don’t. They are more obsessed with their power, money, etc. Those are their gods.

The internet can be useful at times, but it really hasn’t become the tool it could have been. It’s filled with porn and cat videos. Most of it is a waste of time. Even supposed reporting sites do little more than push their own agenda. Facebook and Twitter are nothing more than altars of narcissism. Who really needs to know your kids did something insignificant?

Ultimately, it’s the fault of everyday people. They’re the ones who buy crap they don’t even need that make CEO’s wealthy; elect weasels to represent them; focus on themselves rather than their own families. Nothing is more important that themselves. They’ll talk a good game, but ultimately buy from Walmart rather than spend a nickel more at some mom and pop store. They’ll whine and complain that Walmart is unfair, but in the end their off to buy a supersize bag of potato chips.

Americans have been duped. Our own greed and selfishness led us here. Unless people change, I don’t see how it ever improves. Most folks are too wrapped up in their own lives. Until people actual personal responsibility to be their brother’s keeper, it will just get worse.

[Phurfur 70]

Less than $17/day is no longer pulling them out of poverty?

 

Interesting to see how you admire Chinese working standards.

The minimum wage in China is .80 / hour, do the math!

[MDC 7,889]

The minimum wage in China is .80 / hour, do the math!

Making $17/day in a sweatshop doesn't mean you're not in poverty you focking retard.

[Phurfur 70]

Making $17/day in a sweatshop doesn't mean you're not in poverty you focking retard.

Show me a link to the Apple sweatshops? What are they like? Have you seen one?

 

At $17 a day these are good jobs in China.

[MDC 7,889]

Show me a link to the Apple sweatshops? What are they like? Have you seen one?

 

At $17 a day these are good jobs in China.

The article you cited said they have dormitories and workers often put in 12-hour shifts six days per week for $17 a day.

 

What's really funny is that Apple tells you they off shored manufacturing because of the workers "flexibility" etc. and you actually eat that sh1t sandwich.

 

You are the definition of a useful idiot.

[The Moz 71]

Show me a link to the Apple sweatshops? What are they like? Have you seen one?

 

At $17 a day these are good jobs in China.

Sh!t yeah. Volty barely manages 15 ............................ poor Volty.

[Phurfur 70]

 

The article you cited said they have dormitories and workers often put in 12-hour shifts six days per week for $17 a day.

Show me a link to the Apple sweatshops? What are they like? Have you seen one? I guess you made that up. Do you really think Dorms = sweatshops? They actually = $17 a day plus housing.

 

I worked 11 hours days 6 days a week for $30 a day and it was not in a sweatshop. I was actually considered upper class. Even an idiot like you must know that wages and class are dependent on the COL.

[The Moz 71]

 

 

Dorms = sweatshops? They actually = $17 a day plus housing.

 

 

 

Right on -- there is no way the Honorable People's Republic of China would ever do anything misleading.

 

Also this all makes me very sad for Volty. But hey it's better than if he was back in Detroit.

[parrot 789]

The article you cited said they have dormitories and workers often put in 12-hour shifts six days per week for $17 a day.

 

What's really funny is that Apple tells you they off shored manufacturing because of the workers "flexibility" etc. and you actually eat that sh1t sandwich.

 

You are the definition of a useful idiot.

And hey, don't forget the Socialist angle;

 

When an Apple team visited, the Chinese plant’s owners were already constructing a new wing. “This is in case you give us the contract,” the manager said, according to a former Apple executive. The Chinese government had agreed to underwrite costs for numerous industries, and those subsidies had trickled down to the glass-cutting factory.

If that happened here, Phurfur would be apoplectic.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

And hey, don't forget the Socialist angle;

 

 

If that happened here, Phurfur would be apoplectic.

It would be MK Piven

[FlaHawker 24]

 

 

But hey it's better than if he was back in Detroit.

That's better? Wow what a loser!!

[MDC 7,889]

Show me a link to the Apple sweatshops? What are they like? Have you seen one? I guess you made that up. Do you really think Dorms = sweatshops? They actually = $17 a day plus housing.

 

No, I can't find any online pictures of Apple sweatshops. I'll just have to assume that working 12-hour days 6 days per week for $100 sucks, even if you get a free cot to sleep on. The fact that you think this is admirable in any way reveals you as the buffoon we already knew you were.

 

I worked 11 hours days 6 days a week for $30 a day

 

No, you didn't. You also never fought in Vietnam, your wife wasn't a public teacher and you don't collect a public pension. What you are is a gutless trolling dooshbag.

 

hth

[NewbieJr 541]

 

 

 

 

No, you didn't. You also never fought in Vietnam, your wife wasn't a public teacher and you don't collect a public pension. What you are is a gutless trolling dooshbag.

 

hth

You forgot wrinkly.

[Voltaire 5,491]

Sh!t yeah. Volty barely manages 15 ............................ poor Volty.

I barely manage $15K a year. (not true, I make $22K / year) That's solidly middle class in China but it also means my kids have never met their grandmother because we can't afford plane tickets.

 

My daughter has piano classes and art and dance. My son will too eventually. They both take robotics classes and rollerblading. We go in the pool, see movies. These are all things I did without growing up.

 

We homeschool, I support the whole thing on one income. Could be worse, I know, I've lived it. The only real downside is the food totally sucks.

[MDC 7,889]

I barely manage $15K a year. (not true, I make $22K / year) That's solidly middle class in China but it also means my kids have never met their grandmother because we can't afford plane tickets.

 

My daughter has piano classes and art and dance. My son will too eventually. They both take robotics classes and rollerblading. We go in the pool, see movies. These are all things I did without growing up.

 

We homeschool, I support the whole thing on one income. Could be worse, I know, I've lived it. The only real downside is the food totally sucks.

Have you thought about getting one of those sweet live-in manufacturing jobs for Apple? No benefits and the hours are brutal but you get $100/week and a rusty cot to lay your aching bones after another 72-hour work week.

[MedStudent 56]

I think women are better looking now. I've seen pictures of chicks from the 60's, 70's and 80's and chicks now are much hotter. That's the most important part of society to me.

 

I think we are starting to eat better at least urban people are. Maybe we are a bit more narcissistic with the social media now. And I think we are generally more tolerant, especially in regards to things like interracial marriage.

[Voltaire 5,491]

Have you thought about getting one of those sweet live-in manufacturing jobs for Apple? No benefits and the hours are brutal but you get $100/week and a rusty cot to lay your aching bones after another 72-hour work week.

Really they have cots now? Here, I thought they were double and triple bunked. Must be nice.

[Voltaire 5,491]

I think women are better looking now. I've seen pictures of chicks from the 60's, 70's and 80's and chicks now are much hotter. That's the most important part of society to me.

 

I think we are starting to eat better at least urban people are. Maybe we are a bit more narcissistic with the social media now. And I think we are generally more tolerant, especially in regards to things like interracial marriage.

Bullsh*t. They were always hot. Just fashion styles change.

[MDC 7,889]

Bullsh*t. They were always hot. Just fashion styles change.

True but they didn't trim.

[MedStudent 56]

Bullsh*t. They were always hot. Just fashion styles change.

Chicks workout more now. Much tighter bodies.

[Voltaire 5,491]

Chicks workout more now. Much tighter bodies.

When you go to your ten year HS reunion, reality will smack you in the head. You'll look at the 28 y/o uberhotties from HS and they're all packing 20 extra pounds while all your buddies are carrying around an extra 35.

[Recliner Pilot 61]

When you go to your ten year HS reunion, reality will smack you in the head. You'll look at the 28 y/o uberhotties from HS and they're all packing 20 extra pounds while all your buddies are carrying around an extra 35.

Opie thinks working out was invented in the last 5 years.

[mahan day 4]

Trending in a healthier direction, wiser, nobler, etc.

 

I realize there's a ton of grey area in assessing this...it's a big, vague question. There are many different trends to consider. I'm curious how people feel general sentiment wise though. Is the perceivable good in developments outweighing the bad? (Or maybe it's too close and complex to call).

 

What's more likely in a very general sense...you'll be more or less comfortable with society 10 years down the road?

i think it is scary. if i could choose one word to describe the world right now it would be scary.

[Voltaire 5,491]

I like the younger generation. From what I read, anyways. As you would imagine, I don't interact with the much but the ones that I do run into in China (there's a couple of peace corps kids filtering through Panzhihua University) are impressive. It's the old fockers that are responsible for running up massive debt and screwing them over with it. Cutting back on education spending in a heartbeat but not ever for retirement benefits. Despite this younger folks are smarter and better,

 

Unfortunatly, carrying an unfair burdens in personal and national debt and obligations for paying ever more benefits to the retirees focking them in the a$$.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

I am a history nerd, Roman and Byzantine history especially. I find the similarities between the decline of that culture and our own striking. Now obviously, we don't have ravenous hordes of barbarians at the gates, but the decadence, rampant corruption, monumental greed, factionalism, loss of morals and societal bonds... very similar.

 

I've considered writing a novel, wherein every other chapter flops back and forth between a middle class Roman, and a middle class American, and juxtaposes their lives. But who has the time working 65 hours a week to scrape by?

[Voltaire 5,491]

I am a history nerd, Roman and Byzantine history especially. I find the similarities between the decline of that culture and our own striking. Now obviously, we don't have ravenous hordes of barbarians at the gates, but the decadence, rampant corruption, monumental greed, factionalism, loss of morals and societal bonds... very similar.

 

I've considered writing a novel, wherein every other chapter flops back and forth between a middle class Roman, and a middle class American, and juxtaposes their lives. But who has the time working 65 hours a week to scrape by?

A married couple with advanced degrees and no kids are working 65 hr weeks to scrape by? Something is very wrong here.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

A married couple with advanced degrees and no kids are working 65 hr weeks to scrape by? Something is very wrong here.

I work 65 by myself.

 

The wife works part time, as her field (education) has been budget raped and is not hiring.

 

We make it, but it is a constant juggling act, one blown tire or other minor catastrophe, and we're focked.

 

that's not even taking about her lack of health insurance and laundry list of serious health problems.

[mahan day 4]

I am a history nerd, Roman and Byzantine history especially. I find the similarities between the decline of that culture and our own striking. Now obviously, we don't have ravenous hordes of barbarians at the gates, but the decadence, rampant corruption, monumental greed, factionalism, loss of morals and societal bonds... very similar.

 

I've considered writing a novel, wherein every other chapter flops back and forth between a middle class Roman, and a middle class American, and juxtaposes their lives. But who has the time working 65 hours a week to scrape by?

great thought but do it with a roman, an arab, jew, asian, russian then and now. everybody then and now, so each chapter changes, some good to bad and some bad to good. juxtapose. write it u lazy ass.

[Phurfur 70]

The American people are currently riding the hard work laid down by generations before them. The current generation couldn't work themselves out of a wet paper bag; the last recession is a very good example.

 

 

The Dream is over!

 

[NewbieJr 541]

The American people are currently riding the hard work laid down by generations before them. The current generation couldn't work themselves out of a wet paper bag; the last recession is a very good example.

 

 

The Dream is over!

Looks like you're going to die just in time.

[FlaHawker 24]

Welcome to Ineptocracy:

 

Ineptocracy: A system of government where the least capable to lead are elected by the least capable of producing, and where the members of society least likely to sustain themselves or succeed, are rewarded with goods and services paid for by the confiscated wealth of a diminishing number of producers.