If Mendy sits... Ellington a must start RB2 or Flex

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

 

Actually I believe he also ran a 4.51 at the Clemson Pro Day. All I am saying is the just doesn't have a top gear, which can be lethal in undersized backs.

 

CAN BE.

 

How does he consistency break off 20 yarders if he doesn't have 'top' gear speed?

[R8RMick 242]

 

How does he consistency break off 20 yarders if he doesn't have 'top' gear speed?

 

Lol... Top Gear guys take those runs to the house. Guys like Ellington get caught at the 45 yard line. Observe:

 

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJPw2OMInJ0

[Cyclone47 0]

Yeah that 80 yard romp was a pretty nice equalizer against the defense, but what impressed me was he ripped off 64 yards on his other 14 carries. He plays quicker than his base speed, though you could see defenders closing on him as he crossed the goal line. I hear the frustration from his owners, as it is still a committee with Taylor getting 14 carries.

I'm starting to think you must be Bruce Arians. And what defenders are you talking about? I watched the run again and there was only one guy who caught up with him as he crossed the line, and that looked to be #23 Robert Alford, who ran a 4.39 40 at the combine.

 

I don't know what it is with you and #38, but you have this odd disdain toward him. First, it's he's not big enough, lacks elite speed and explosiveness, can't handle a full workload. He goes out, gets 15 carries for 154 1 td (80 yard TD) 2 catches for 8 yards, and no sign of injury. Then it's, well, he might have taken it to the house, but a defender got within arms reach of him after went into the endzone for an 80 yard td (nevermind that he started showing off at about the 5 yard line). And now you're saying, well, he won't be a premier back in this league and isn't as fast as Jamaal Charles.

 

Not one person has proclaimed him to be an elite running back or the next Charles. They're highlighting the fact that even though he might be considered "undersized" and "not fast enough" by some, he still went out there and had a productive game. In terms of this season to date, he's consistently shown to be effective when given an opportunity and that's all anyone is asking for in fantasy football, especially from a guy used as a flex player or bye week fill-in.

 

[R8RMick 242]

I'm starting to think you must be Bruce Arians. And what defenders are you talking about? I watched the run again and there was only one guy who caught up with him as he crossed the line, and that looked to be #23 Robert Alford, who ran a 4.39 40 at the combine.

 

I don't know what it is with you and #38, but you have this odd disdain toward him. First, it's he's not big enough, lacks elite speed and explosiveness, can't handle a full workload. He goes out, gets 15 carries for 154 1 td (80 yard TD) 2 catches for 8 yards, and no sign of injury. Then it's, well, he might have taken it to the house, but a defender got within arms reach of him after went into the endzone for an 80 yard td (nevermind that he started showing off at about the 5 yard line). And now you're saying, well, he won't be a premier back in this league and isn't as fast as Jamaal Charles.

 

Not one person has proclaimed him to be an elite running back or the next Charles. They're highlighting the fact that even though he might be considered "undersized" and "not fast enough" by some, he still went out there and had a productive game. In terms of this season to date, he's consistently shown to be effective when given an opportunity and that's all anyone is asking for in fantasy football, especially from a guy used as a flex player or bye week fill-in.

 

 

 

Apologies, it is only my personal opinion. I know many of us here on this board seek reinforcement for roster moves we make, and game decisions we reach. It helps our state of mind to have consensus, surely. I just see the NFL as a physically brutal place for running backs, and to succeed at a certain level in the league, a runner needs certain physical attributes in addition to talent, ie. size and/or speed. This kid has an abundance of neither, though he has certain other intangibles important to runners. I supposed I have also prefaced my opinion with his offensive line situation there in AZ, as well as the fact he faces the SEA and Frisco defense four times a season, which probably isn't fair to the kid. Your last paragraph is very well spoken, and I agree with it completely. My only intent in posting the video was to point out that Ellington indeed does not have that top gear a home run hitter at RB needs.

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

See the play again...

 

He's got INSANE speed, lateral movement and nice vision.

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-fantasy/0ap2000000271080/RB-Ellington-80-yd-run-TD

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

 

My only intent in posting the video was to point out that Ellington indeed does not have that top gear a home run hitter at RB needs.

 

hahahahaha....

[R8RMick 242]

Again, safety took a bad angle which allowed him to get outside. Thanks for posting that.

[FakeFoozballIzFun 6]

You don't break off 80 yard runs in the NFL without pretty decent speed...

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

You don't break off 80 yard runs in the NFL without pretty decent speed...

 

R8RMick thinks it's because the DB are taking poor 'angles'.

[FakeFoozballIzFun 6]

Does he have Spiller, CJ, or Jamaal Charles speed? Probably not. But looking at game film I'd say he's around 4.4, maybe 4.45 at worst which is more than adequate to produce as a running back.

[Breesman32 11]

Look at who he has coming up after the bye

Houston

@Jacksonville(could be a monster day)

Indianapolis(they aren't so great against the run considering both Mathews and Lynch got 100 yards and especially on the road)

@Philadelphia(could be the bad game)

St.Louis

@Tennessee

@Seattle(The other bad game)

 

With the exception of Philadelphia and Seattle, that looks to be a run friendly schedule.

[cdogge 17]

I don't get this speed talk.. Kinda ridiculous actually.

 

Point is... He can literally run circles around mendy.

 

Arians obviously begged the organization (must be brain dead) to sign Mendy & doesn't want to look like a dumbass.

[benglish88 2]

he looked quite speedy on that breakaway run he had

[Cyclone47 0]

 

 

Apologies, it is only my personal opinion. I know many of us here on this board seek reinforcement for roster moves we make, and game decisions we reach. It helps our state of mind to have consensus, surely. I just see the NFL as a physically brutal place for running backs, and to succeed at a certain level in the league, a runner needs certain physical attributes in addition to talent, ie. size and/or speed. This kid has an abundance of neither, though he has certain other intangibles important to runners. I supposed I have also prefaced my opinion with his offensive line situation there in AZ, as well as the fact he faces the SEA and Frisco defense four times a season, which probably isn't fair to the kid. Your last paragraph is very well spoken, and I agree with it completely. My only intent in posting the video was to point out that Ellington indeed does not have that top gear a home run hitter at RB needs.

It's cool, man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You just crack me up though with some of your remarks, but it's all good.

 

I agree though that with their offensive line (went downhill rapidly after losing Jonathan Cooper in the preseason) and facing the likes of Seattle, San Francisco, and even St. Louis (if they can keep playing the run like they did last night against the 'Hawks), then he's in arguably the toughest division in football for a running back.

 

I'm just curious to see what happens in the next few weeks. I think the timing of their bye week does him a disservice, allowing Mendenhall the extra week to recover. The Cardinals remaining schedule does appear favorable, but maybe with such low aspirations for this season, the Cardinals are content with just stacking the extra mileage on their old car, and in the process, keeping the new ones relatively free of wear and tear for their long term plans.

[jerryskids 7,192]

It's cool, man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You just crack me up though with some of your remarks, but it's all good.

 

I agree though that with their offensive line (went downhill rapidly after losing Jonathan Cooper in the preseason) and facing the likes of Seattle, San Francisco, and even St. Louis (if they can keep playing the run like they did last night against the 'Hawks), then he's in arguably the toughest division in football for a running back.

 

I'm just curious to see what happens in the next few weeks. I think the timing of their bye week does him a disservice, allowing Mendenhall the extra week to recover. The Cardinals remaining schedule does appear favorable, but maybe with such low aspirations for this season, the Cardinals are content with just stacking the extra mileage on their old car, and in the process, keeping the new ones relatively free of wear and tear for their long term plans.

They are 4-4, one game out of the playoffs, and their schedule gets easier (except SEA and SF). I don't think they are mailing anything in yet.

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

They are 4-4, one game out of the playoffs, and their schedule gets easier (except SEA and SF). I don't think they are mailing anything in yet.

 

+1

 

This is the NFL and Arians first HC position. It's crazy to even consider he would mail it in and ride an old car (Mendy). Ellington has gotten praised from coaches and teammates. He's essentially locked in for 30-35 snaps going forward. How much of those snaps get turned into touches depends on situation. Folks, this guy is averaging 7.7 yards per carry. Yes, unsustainable, but even the BEST 'scat backs' aren't NO WHERE near those numbers. The kid got a nice combination of vision, burst and incredible lateral movement making him very tough to tackle. This whole 'speed' thing is only an issue with people that don't understand football. Straight line speed that don't translate on the field don't mean jack chit. There's guys like Arian Foster who was clocked at 4.71 is one of the best RB in the league with the ability to take it to the house. And then you have CJ2K one of the fastest 40 times who can't seem to make a 'simple' 30 yard run over the past 3 seasons. And then there's Charles...yes great speed but his longest run this season is only 24 yards after 8 games. Read that again. After 8 games, only 1 carry over 20 yards.

[R8RMick 242]

It's cool, man, everyone is entitled to their opinion. You just crack me up though with some of your remarks, but it's all good.

 

I agree though that with their offensive line (went downhill rapidly after losing Jonathan Cooper in the preseason) and facing the likes of Seattle, San Francisco, and even St. Louis (if they can keep playing the run like they did last night against the 'Hawks), then he's in arguably the toughest division in football for a running back.

 

I'm just curious to see what happens in the next few weeks. I think the timing of their bye week does him a disservice, allowing Mendenhall the extra week to recover. The Cardinals remaining schedule does appear favorable, but maybe with such low aspirations for this season, the Cardinals are content with just stacking the extra mileage on their old car, and in the process, keeping the new ones relatively free of wear and tear for their long term plans.

 

Yeah I get a little old school on my views, locked in on size and/or speed. RB is just such a brutal position in the NFL, and I just lost my new RB2 last night to an ankle sprain. Truthfully, I'd pick up Ellington and start him next week but the kid is on a bye. Yes, he is available in our league (we have special rules for our keeper league which involve rookies and limit potential roster spots, for those curious why he's available).

 

I read today where Arians is doubling down on Mendenhall. I actually look on the bye week as a plus for Ellington, as it gives him a chance to work on his pass protection packages. For as much heat as Arians has taken, you can't fault the guy for being concerned with pass protection. As a Fitzgerald owner, I knew the early loss of Jonathon Cooper would hurt this O-line. Left Tackle has been a disaster, they released Levi Brown but Bradley Sowell is little better. The Seahawks front seven used him as a revolving blocking dummy two weeks ago. Adding Eric Winston at RT didn't hurt, and they have some young prospects.

 

Having said that, they are still very much in it at 4-4. My gosh if the Rams had played with half a clue on offense last night the entire division would be .500 or better. Arians would do well to get his weapons on the field for as many snaps as possible. And right now Ellington is their best weapon at RB, though it sounds like Arians is the only one on the planet unaware of it. Yeah, I can understand the frustration.

 

 

http://blog.azcardinals.com/2013/10/28/the-plan-for-ellington-mendenhall/

[R8RMick 242]

 

+1

 

This is the NFL and Arians first HC position. It's crazy to even consider he would mail it in and ride an old car (Mendy). Ellington has gotten praised from coaches and teammates. He's essentially locked in for 30-35 snaps going forward. How much of those snaps get turned into touches depends on situation. Folks, this guy is averaging 7.7 yards per carry. Yes, unsustainable, but even the BEST 'scat backs' aren't NO WHERE near those numbers. The kid got a nice combination of vision, burst and incredible lateral movement making him very tough to tackle. This whole 'speed' thing is only an issue with people that don't understand football. Straight line speed that don't translate on the field don't mean jack chit. There's guys like Arian Foster who was clocked at 4.71 is one of the best RB in the league with the ability to take it to the house. And then you have CJ2K one of the fastest 40 times who can't seem to make a 'simple' 30 yard run over the past 3 seasons. And then there's Charles...yes great speed but his longest run this season is only 24 yards after 8 games. Read that again. After 8 games, only 1 carry over 20 yards.

 

Respectfully, since you've called me out again, my only point is that speed is important for smallish backs in this league. Backs who are 5'11" 199. Backs like Andre Ellington. Are there exceptions? Sure. But odds are against him. Comparing Ellington's situation, even in the same paragraph, as an Arian Foster tells me YOU don't know anything about football. Foster breaks those runs because he's a miniature version of Earl Campbell, and can break TACKLES. Tell me junior, you ever watch Earl Campbell play? So you're all in on Ellington, I get that. But if you're seeing a role playing back, limited in workload and touches, then we are in agreement. If he can take one of his 17-18 touches per game and get to the house he's a nice roster add.

 

But I'll tell you this... If this kid, with all his intangibles you've pointed out, had sub 4.40 speed he'd be red hot. With that speed, his size wouldn't matter as he could run out of trouble and you could put him on the field for longer stretches. Again, don't take this personally, it's just business brother.

[FakeFoozballIzFun 6]

After crunching some numbers it looks like best case scenario for Ellington would be a mid RB2 if they did a 2:1 carry split with him and if they split it 50/50 he'd have flex value...

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

 

Respectfully, since you've called me out again, my only point is that speed is important for smallish backs in this league. Backs who are 5'11" 199. Backs like Andre Ellington. Are there exceptions? Sure. But odds are against him. Comparing Ellington's situation, even in the same paragraph, as an Arian Foster tells me YOU don't know anything about football. Foster breaks those runs because he's a miniature version of Earl Campbell, and can break TACKLES. Tell me junior, you ever watch Earl Campbell play? So you're all in on Ellington, I get that. But if you're seeing a role playing back, limited in workload and touches, then we are in agreement. If he can take one of his 17-18 touches per game and get to the house he's a nice roster add.

 

But I'll tell you this... If this kid, with all his intangibles you've pointed out, had sub 4.40 speed he'd be red hot. With that speed, his size wouldn't matter as he could run out of trouble and you could put him on the field for longer stretches. Again, don't take this personally, it's just business brother.

 

Grandpa, maybe 3 decades ago but the trend for NFL Running backs is they are getting shorter and shorter.

 

http://www.bsports.com/statsinsights/nfl/why-have-nfl-running-backs-gotten-shorter-a-statistical-investigation

 

There are a number of running backs under 5'11" that are stars in the NFL:

 

Ray Rice

Sproles

MJD

Doug Martin

Danny Woodhead

Alfred Morris

Frank Gore

[R8RMick 242]

 

Grandpa, maybe 3 decades ago but the trend for NFL Running backs is they are getting shorter and shorter.

 

http://www.bsports.com/statsinsights/nfl/why-have-nfl-running-backs-gotten-shorter-a-statistical-investigation

 

There are a number of running backs under 5'11" that are stars in the NFL:

 

Ray Rice

Sproles

MJD

Doug Martin

Danny Woodhead

Alfred Morris

Frank Gore

 

What the f*ck are you even talking about? You're all over the map Bieber, the reference was to 'smallish' backs. Zac Stacy is 5'8" but at 220 plus opened a can last night against a top ranked defense. The same defense which smurfed Ellington into a 3 for 3 line. Now IF you had a clue you'd reference the fact that even Stacy got hurt, so injuries are not exclusive to small backs. But you're too busy frothing at the mouth in your desperation to validate your guy. Why is it you need everyone on this forum to be on board with your guy lol??? Self doubt issues?

 

But what of your list? Danny Woodhead is a star???? You're killing me! He hasn't reached double digit fantasy pts in half of his games. And though you have other suspect names on there as well, they are either bigger backs (Martin, Morris, Gore) or have top speed (Sproles, Rice).

 

I'd say this was like arguing with a democrat, but it would be an insult to my liberal friends. Now go away son, you're bothering me.

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

So if size isn't a prelude to potential injuries or performance, then why do you continue to suggest that his physical make-up makes him a candidate for suckville. Sproles ran a 4.47 and if you call that top speed then you are simply blowing more smoke up your own granddaddy a@@. Have you also seen Rice run these days? Slow and slower....and yes, Danny Woodhead is becoming a weapon in SD.

 

This isn't about self-doubt. This is about calling you out who was quick to judge only to see Ellington BLOW UP IN YOUR FACE. The new NFL have no place for grandfather football. Al Davis and his speed guns were buried a long time ago. Now go polish those guns.

[benglish88 2]

So okay then, after reading some good points here, where do you see Ellington ROS?

 

Do you believe he will be in the top 10 this year for fantasy points, or do you think the top 15 is more likely?

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

Currently rank 13th overall in my league.

Barring injuries i think he can finish between the 8-13 area this season.

[jpcdds 26]

Guys... you only have to be faster than the guy chasing your or the guy your chasing. Add to the equation of "football speed" and 40 times don't mean anything!

 

Did you watch calvin Johnson's 90 yard catch against dallas. CJ is a 4.3 guy... so is orlando scanrick. Watch the video and you'll see scandrick chase CJ down like he was a second faster in the 40. What you do against a stopwatch and what you can do on the field are completely different.

 

Watch here:

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000270514/Week-8-Calvin-Johnson-highlights

 

 

 

Ellington is plenty fast and "slow rbs" don't break 80 yd runs unless they have "something". Looks like someone is also underrating lateral movement and what it can do on the field. His movements in space give him a decided advantage no matter how fast the guy across from him is.

 

Size Size Size is what matters... been hearing that for years (usually from my wife =-) ). It looks to me that the bigger backs get hurt way more than the smaller ones do. Just as the careers of Brandon Jacobs, Beenie wells, DMac, DMurray R Mendenhall, JStew, and the like or ask Bsanders, warrick dunn, Portis, CJ, McCoy, r rice and so forth. I would say the firrst group is/was hurt a lot more than the latter in their careers.

[RedzoneMonster 110]

What's Ellington worth. Is this guy potentially a good Rb 2 or just another timeshare frustration? I was just offered Ellington and Olsen for gates and ivory. I already have Cameron at TE. Am I crazy not to take this?

[R8RMick 242]

Currently rank 13th overall in my league.

Barring injuries i think he can finish between the 8-13 area this season.

 

He's got a fantastic schedule down the stretch. Up to his coach and whether he holds up if he gives him the rock. I think the bye helps rather than hurts him, as he can work on some protection techniques. Arians has pretty much said that if he can protect Palmer he'll play more.

[Patriotsfatboy1 1,433]

Best case he is an RB2. Worst case he is a flex play. I am thinking the latter is most likely due to his pass blocking skills and size.

 

I also think that Ariazona would be stupid to not give him 20 touches to see what they have.

[Skinny_Bastard 159]

Maybe Bruce Arians is finally getting it after going through the films. From 7-10 to 12-15 could be big. He got 18 last game.

 

"Coach Bruce Arians said he'd like to increase Andre Ellington's touches.

Darren Urban of the Cardinals' official website speculates that may come via more receptions in the passing game to get Ellington in space. OC Harold Goodwin said he believes Ellington is "smart enough" to be able to handle a lot of carries but reiterated he doesn't want his rookie back getting "beat up." Arians has already stated that Rashard Mendenhall will be reinserted as the early-down back once he returns from his toe injury. That puts a bit of a cap on Ellington's potential upside, though it's clear Ellington is the team's best back. Expect Ellington to hover in the 12-15 touches per game area for the foreseeable future. Ellington should still be owned in all formats."

[FakeFoozballIzFun 6]

Meh...sounds like RB3/flex value in non-PPR. Was hoping for him to take over more of the workload so he could jump into the RB2 range...

[p.man 7]

J.Bell or Ellington?

Drop Bell and watch the team with R.Bush pick him up? Or keep Bell because he does put up points?

Bell has 75 points on the season.

 

Week 15 and 16 are @Tenn and @Seattle for Ellington. The 5 weeks prior to that he should be fine. Home vs Indi in week 12.

[gitrdun 18]

What do you think of him for a keeper next year. We can only keep one player drafted in the 4th round or lower so the studs are taken, but I picked him up hoping for a good finish but also thinking of next season.