Argument in league. Looking for opinions

[Shakey210 10]

One player in my league has recently created an uproar over a situation that took place in the final week of the season. I'm going to explain the situation and would appreciate feedback and thoughts. Thanks..

 

I (GM) had already secured my first round bye after week 12 at 10-2. There was a 4 way tie for the final 2 playoff spots in the league. One of the teams had a very good team and was second in the league in scoring (TEAM . I decided I was going to sit a few guys on my team and let the person I was playing beat me because if (TEAM lost, they would be eliminated from playoff contention and I would not have the face them. Typing that out kind of sounds shady and if i could go back and change it, I would. It turns out that if I started my guys, I would have beaten the team I was playing.

What resulted was the team I wanted to lose... winning.. and the team that beat me both making the playoffs. However, the same 6 teams would have still made the playoffs regardless of if I would have won or not due to other teams losing and tiebreaker scenarios and what not. The only thing that changed was seeding. While my move may have been looked at by some as shady, it did not affect any of the teams making the playoffs anyways.

I tried to smooth it over by contacting the playoff teams and asking if I should fix the seeding to reflect what would have been the case if I set my lineup. Everyone agreed except for the person who complained in the first place (probably because he actually had an easier matchup). Nobody else seemed to care anyways so last weeks games were played. THe guy who complained lost (and would have lost to any other playoff team anyways, regardless of who he played).

This week he decides he is going to drop all of his players. I went and added them all back to his team and he thinks it's BS and he can do what he wants.

 

We have been playing together for nearly 4 years now and haven't had issues. This isn't a work league and there is over $1,000 in the prize pool. I care about the opinions of the league members and realize that starting a full lineup would have prevented any of this in the first place. Even though it did not result in a team missing playoffs or anything like that.

 

Thoughts? Thanks

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I think what you did was kind of underhanded and you probably should have taken some sh!t for it. Especially since you're GM so you should probably be setting a better tone than that for the rest of the league. However it seems you didn't really break any rules, so while your league mates should have given you a hard enough time that you wouldn't do it again, that's pretty much where it should've ended.

 

The guy who dropped all his players is clearly a sore loser and a jerk. While I can understand that he was upset that certainly wasn't the proper reaction. IMO he should be told that if he pulls a stunt like that again he will be replaced in the league.

 

But since you were involved in the whole thing I don't think you should be the one to tell the owner that. At this point probably the best thing to do would be to email the whole league with something along the lines of "It appears my actions upset the other guy and I apologize because I should've set a better example as GM. However I have put all the players that the other guy dropped back on to his team because that was not an appropriate reaction on his part. Now let's put this whole thing behind us and move on." Done.

[GreenTD 56]

Let me get this straight.

 

So you gifted your week 13 opponent in an effort to keep another potential team (that you deemed better) from making the playoffs. Both teams made the playoffs but changed the seeding because of it.

 

THEN, after your conscience told you what you did was "shady" you decided to reverse it to help clear your conscience? The team you wanted to lose still would've lost no matter what last week but he decided to throw a temper tantrum & drop all his players.

 

Am I right so far?

 

I personally believe what you initially did was shady but some may say you were setting yourself up with a better chance to win so i won't argue that. The worst (& also funniest part) is that you tried to right the ship by reversing it. I think that is super shady, especially since you're the commish. Whether or not the guy still would've lost, it's kinda silly to reverse something YOU caused in the 1st place.

 

The guy who dropped his players has a right to be pissed but dropping players is a childish move. The appropriate reaction would've been to punch you in the face in front of your wife & kids.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

Oh I didn't catch that you "fixed" your lineup after the fact--is that right? If so, that was fockin' stupid.

[Shakey210 10]

Let me get this straight.

 

So you gifted your week 13 opponent in an effort to keep another potential team (that you deemed better) from making the playoffs. Both teams made the playoffs but changed the seeding because of it.

 

THEN, after your conscience told you what you did was "shady" you decided to reverse it to help clear your conscience? The team you wanted to lose still would've lost no matter what last week but he decided to throw a temper tantrum & drop all his players.

 

Am I right so far?

 

I personally believe what you initially did was shady but some may say you were setting yourself up with a better chance to win so i won't argue that. The worst (& also funniest part) is that you tried to right the ship by reversing it. I think that is super shady, especially since you're the commish. Whether or not the guy still would've lost, it's kinda silly to reverse something YOU caused in the 1st place.

 

The guy who dropped his players has a right to be pissed but dropping players is a childish move. The appropriate reaction would've been to punch you in the face in front of your wife & kids.

They were complaining. Usually people complain in order to get what they want. I offered to give them what they want and all but one turned it down. Yes, I was trying to set myself up with the easiest possible path to the finals by attempting to make another team miss the playoffs. Shady move, yes. Breaking the rules, no.

[Shakey210 10]

Oh I didn't catch that you "fixed" your lineup after the fact--is that right? If so, that was fockin' stupid.

I did not end up setting my lineup after the fact as the teams that I contacted were cool with how it was. I offered to do it though.

[JT 137]

The op is kind of gibberish, so clarify this: when you say you "sat" guys, does that mean you didn't play your best lineup OR you didn't field a full team?

 

If it's the first, I'm not crazy about it but meh.

 

If it's the second, you kind of suck.

 

In either case, suddenly offering to reverse the situation makes the whole thing extremely shady, and apparently you realized that as well. Otherwise, you wouldn't have made the offer.

 

If you intend to play in this league going forward you should definitely step down as commish. It may help to restore some credibility to the league.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

They were complaining. Usually people complain in order to get what they want. I offered to give them what they want and all but one turned it down. Yes, I was trying to set myself up with the easiest possible path to the finals by attempting to make another team miss the playoffs. Shady move, yes. Breaking the rules, no.

You should've said "I'm sorry guys, while what I did was not technically against the rules I can see it has upset some owners and I should've tried to set a better tone for the league as GM. However we can't now go back and change the results."

 

At this point the best thing to do is a mea culpa--apologize, say you'll try to set a better tone going forward, and then casually mention that, oh yeah, just as a reminder, owners can't drop all of their players when they lose.

[AnaheimRams 28]

House

Punch

Face

Wife

[Drizzay 646]

There is no such thing as an easy path in the playoffs. You have no idea how any specific player will score in the coming weeks.

 

So, in the future, just continue to play your normal starters and hope you get lucky, just like the rest of us.

[Shakey210 10]

You should've said "I'm sorry guys, while what I did was not technically against the rules I can see it has upset some owners and I should've tried to set a better tone for the league as GM. However we can't now go back and change the results."

 

At this point the best thing to do is a mea culpa--apologize, say you'll try to set a better tone going forward, and then casually mention that, oh yeah, just as a reminder, owners can't drop all of their players when they lose.

I did apologize. Stated that there was no rule against what I did but in the future we could come up with rules against these sort of things. I said that if I could go back and start a full lineup I would in order to have avoided all this. Only one person seemed to have been bothered by this even though it did not affect him in any way. I've attempted to smooth it over. I understand where he is coming from but turning around and dropping all of his players is kind of contradicting.

[nospk 230]

Everyone play to win every week for the integrity of the league...or don't play

[c.hammer 6]

Stated that there was no rule against what I did but in the future we could come up with rules against these sort of things.....I understand where he is coming from but turning around and dropping all of his players is kind of contradicting.

 

Is there a rule that he cannot drop his players? If not, it seems like the only contradicting thing is that you, the GM, can bend the rules and he cannot. He obviously was making a point when dropping his players so you'd understand and to make you look silly.

[DankNuggs 305]

You should have just stood your ground and not offered to change anything. The post game change is the shady part. Playing a JV team is your prerogative. Knowing how FF works the team you gifted would knock you out. Anything can happen in the playoffs

[DankNuggs 305]

And FA pickups should stop at the end of the reg season, maybe even a couple weeks before.

[AnaheimRams 28]

Also... don't play with 12 year-olds. Chronologically or emotionally.

[Shakey210 10]

Is there a rule that he cannot drop his players? If not, it seems like the only contradicting thing is that you, the GM, can bend the rules and he cannot. He obviously was making a point when dropping his players so you'd understand and to make you look silly.

I think that is more of an unwritten rule. I guess the same could be said for always fielding the best lineup possible each week. With that being said, my actions did no result in any difference while dropping his players could have made a huge impact in the final 2 weeks of the season.

[Shakey210 10]

You should have just stood your ground and not offered to change anything. The post game change is the shady part. Playing a JV team is your prerogative. Knowing how FF works the team you gifted would knock you out. Anything can happen in the playoffs

Well im playing him this week. If i lose.. I will know that Karma was out to get me

[madd futher mucker 36]

I think that is more of an unwritten rule. I guess the same could be said for always fielding the best lineup possible each week. With that being said, my actions did no result in any difference while dropping his players could have made a huge impact in the final 2 weeks of the season.

 

This is another case of a commissioner not having any ability to separate what is good for his league versus his personal interest as an owner. If you are the league commissioner, you can't make things up as you go or pull crap like this, man. Do you mean that your league has 'written' rules and 'unwritten' rules. Do you mean there is an 'unwritten' rule about dumping his players, but that there isn't an 'unwritten' rule against tanking a game? How the fock is a league owner supposed to know exactly what is legal and what is just 'shady'??

 

I would argue that your actions resulted in a great difference in the conduct of your league, which could have a HUGE IMPACT on the future of your league....far beyond the last two weeks of the season. If i were you I would immediately admit your bad judgment, apologize to the entire league and offer your resignation as commissioner effective with the end of this season.

[Shakey210 10]

 

Do you mean that your league has 'written' rules and 'unwritten' rules. How the fock is a league owner supposed to know how your league operates? There wasn't an 'unwritten' rule against tanking a game?

 

I would argue that your actions resulted in a great difference in the conduct of your league, which could have a HUGE IMPACT on the future of your league....far beyond the last two weeks of the season. If i were you I would immediately admit your bad judgment, apologize to the entire league and offer your resignation as commissioner effective with the end of this season.

I have already admitted bad judgement and apologized. Being commissioner is not a privilege. If I made that move as a regular team in the league I bet I wouldn't have heard a word about it. It's like being the QB of a team. You have to take all the heat I guess. The league owner would know how the league operate because we have been playing together for years now. There are teams who forget to set their lineups once or twice throughout the year. But because I intentionally did not field the best lineup, I am the bad guy.

[Shakey210 10]

While we're on the topic though... I admit to bad judgement because I was questioned by others in the league as to why I did it. I didn't think it would end up being this big of a deal, but it has. And for that reason I wish I would have started a more competitive lineup. Was not setting the most competitive lineup that I could have possibly set that big of a deal? Event though my intentions were of competitive nature where I was willing to do anything to ensure an easier path to victory for myself? Isn't that what competition is about? My intentions, while ineffective, was for what I believed to be the good of my own team. I'm not trying to condone my actions but this was my perspective when I made the move in the first place.

 

Keep in mind that the most important thing is that nobody was affected from what I did. I thought we could move on from this and events like this would only strengthen the league for future years.

[madd futher mucker 36]

I have already admitted bad judgement and apologized. Being commissioner is not a privilege. If I made that move as a regular team in the league I bet I wouldn't have heard a word about it. It's like being the QB of a team. You have to take all the heat I guess. The league owner would know how the league operate because we have been playing together for years now. There are teams who forget to set their lineups once or twice throughout the year. But because I intentionally did not field the best lineup, I am the bad guy.

 

Yes...that is exactly how it works. The commissioner must set the standard for the conduct of the league. So offer your resignation and just be an owner next year. If you league does not accept your resignation, then figure out the (many) lessons that you need to learn from this.

 

And BTW, eliminate any 'unwritten' rules with a comprehensive set of bylaws.

[Shakey210 10]

I appreciate the feedback.

[Dueces Will Be Wild 15]

I think it depends on the league and the guys.Especially as commish you have to be cognizant of how it would effect the league. That said... in my league w/ friends this year I had the #1 locked up and threw my week 13 game because it's winner take all and I wanted to play a specific team wk 15 and a specific team wk 16. I don't feel slightly bad about it. No one in my league cared. I put myself in the position to do what I wanted

[jrbdmb 28]

You are going back and forth on an important detail. Did you field a "weak" non-optimal lineup (which may be a bit shady but OK) or did you actually leave positions empty? The second would be a crappy move, esp. for a commish. (BTW, to me leaving injured/IR players in your starting lineup if you had healthy alternatives is just as bad.)

[ryansee 0]

sitting players is not shady in my opinion, going back and reversing the results is very shady. I would be pissed.

[BigDaddy808 8]

You are going back and forth on an important detail. Did you field a "weak" non-optimal lineup (which may be a bit shady but OK) or did you actually leave positions empty? The second would be a crappy move, esp. for a commish. (BTW, to me leaving injured/IR players in your starting lineup if you had healthy alternatives is just as bad.)

Seriously? What's the difference if the intent is to lose? Putting in a bunch of scrubs that won't score is somehow better than just leaving the spot empty? Any owner looking would see it's an obvious tank job anyhow. Tanking to better your chances in the playoffs is smart, and a reward for a team that put up enough wins during the season to do so. You think that the Seahawks wouldn't let the cardinals win if it would knock the 49ers out of the playoffs? Any team real or fantasy isn't doing their job if they don't think about this kind of stuff.

[Shakey210 10]

Seriously? What's the difference if the intent is to lose? Putting in a bunch of scrubs that won't score is somehow better than just leaving the spot empty? Any owner looking would see it's an obvious tank job anyhow. Tanking to better your chances in the playoffs is smart, and a reward for a team that put up enough wins during the season to do so. You think that the Seahawks wouldn't let the cardinals win if it would knock the 49ers out of the playoffs? Any team real or fantasy isn't doing their job if they don't think about this kind of stuff.

Exactly my point. I was attempting to eliminate my toughest competition by losing in the final week of the season since I had already locked up my first round bye. This thread has provided feedback similar to the guys who are in my league. Some of you understand what was trying to be done and agree that you should be able to tank if it may improve your matches in the playoffs. Others agree that a competitive lineup should be set each week and no matches should ever be lost on purpose. Especially since it was done by the commissioner. If my plan would have worked, I would have gotten rid of the leagues second leading scorer who happens to have a very good team. This would have allowed me to bypass him in the semifinals. However, considering the dramatic response by one of the league members, I would take it back and not have done it to avoid all of this. Like I said before... This is something to avoid in the future when playing with sensitive leaguemates.

[Shakey210 10]

sitting players is not shady in my opinion, going back and reversing the results is very shady. I would be pissed.

I didn't reverse the results. I asked them if they would like me to. If they all said "yes" then they could have all went on and acted like nothing happened. Not everyone agreed so we kept it the way it was. I didn't care either way.

[zac3434 5]

If you did something that was "technically not against the rule", I don't see why you should be putting his players back on his team unless it is "technically against the rules". You made your bed, now you get to lie in it

[chroniciguana 13]

The most important qualities a commissioner brings to the table are good judgment, a sense of fair play and political smarts. A commissioner is entrusted to put the welfare of the league above his own. To set an example for others to follow. You failed on all counts. You forgot the standards are different for the guy expected to set the standards. What standard does your "nobody got hurt" and "it wasn't technically against the rules" set?

 

You want advice? Stop serving up excuses and save what's left of your league. Admit your judgment wasn't up to their expectations and pledge, because this incident shows some real cause for concern, that the good of the league will always come first in the future. And if the good of the league requires your resignation, that's what you're prepared to do.

[hoytdwow 202]

[c.hammer 6]

How would your feel if you were the 2nd place team and your plan worked? Someone who worked hard all year on creating a solid team, and thinks he has rightfully made the playoffs. Only to see that he was bumped out by a crappier team that was handed a win because the 1st place team blatantly left empties in his lineup.

 

I bet you would scream collusion, since it helps out both teams. And when you hear that it wasn't, you'd feel as if you got f'd just the same.

 

This is a league with your friends, not the nfl. Coaches can play dirty all they want long as it is within the rules, but they will lose respect and dignity for it. If you want to be that guy, I suggest to do it in a league with people you don't care about.

[eaglesalltheway 0]

Everyone play to win every week for the integrity of the league...or don't play

I don't agree with this, and I think you have the right to dictate your opponent in you can.

In the pros, if a team is in last place and goes out and wins the last game, causing them to go from the #1 pick to the #4 pick, everyone would say that team was stupid, and I would agree. It's the same concept - you do what's best for your team, period!!!

With that said, if you believe in a thing called karma, you would start your best players. 4 years ago, I did this in order to play against a team with Josh Freeman and Matt Cassel as his starting QBs (2 QB league) vs my Manning and Brady. Johnson and Cassel proceeded to throw for 9 TDs and 650 yards, and the fantasy football gods taught me a valuable lesson.

[TimHauck 1,802]

Is there a rule that he cannot drop his players? If not, it seems like the only contradicting thing is that you, the GM, can bend the rules and he cannot. He obviously was making a point when dropping his players so you'd understand and to make you look silly.

 

This.

 

 

If you did something that was "technically not against the rule", I don't see why you should be putting his players back on his team unless it is "technically against the rules". You made your bed, now you get to lie in it

 

And this.

 

If you are going to use the line "well technically it wasn't against the rules," technically it wasn't against the rules for the other owner to drop all his players.

[R8RMick 242]

Our league has 15 pages of rules, with EVERY possible scenario addressed regarding tiebreakers, scheduling, line ups, scoring, free agency, etc. We adhere to them like the military does tech data. The last word in any discussion is ALWAYS

 

"What do the bylaws say...?"

 

End of discussion.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

This happens every year. Guys who laugh when someone in their league forgets to set a lineup (or sets a bye week player or an injured player) during the season, cry when someone intentionally does it. As if week 14 is somehow more important than week 3.

[He Like Me 0]

I think playing your best team each week is the way to go. I had this same dilemma several years ago. Had I laid down the last week a lesser team would have made the playoffs. The other team vying for the playoffs was very hot at the time.and I had thought about playing my "bench" in order for the lesser team to win and make the playoffs. I decided to go ahead and play my best team. For one, letting the guy win and then losing to him in the playoffs would have really sucked. Two, I didn't feel like the drama it may have stirred up. Long story short, I played the hot team and got destroyed. Oh well, damned if you do, damned if you don't!

[jgcrawfish 232]

This happens every year. Guys who laugh when someone in their league forgets to set a lineup (or sets a bye week player or an injured player) during the season, cry when someone intentionally does it. As if week 14 is somehow more important than week 3.

Um, week 14 is more important than week 13, if your playoffs have started.

 

This is a complicated issue. Where's the "fairness" line drawn? In the NFL, if I've clinched the #1 seed and want to rest my players and not risk getting them hurt, that's my prerogative. While the league may frown on it, it's in the best interest of my team. If my potential first opponent is a team that started slow but is on a 6-game win streak, and I let someone else into the playoffs by losing...that's a bit more grey area. But the bottom line is managing my team is MY decision.

 

However, when you're wearing the hat of the commish along with the hat of the team owner, it's much more complicated. You really cannot separate the good of my team from the good of the league, and your intent should always be the needs of the many over the needs of the one, especially if that one is you. I agree with some of the other posters, you should have a conversation with the league and tell them you realize that what you did, although not against any rule, was an affront to the fairness of the league and that you won't let it happen again. The conversation the little girl dropping all his players needs to take place separately. On that one, admit your mistake and ask him to be a bigger person than you were and see what happens. If he continues to be a doosh, lock the team I guess.

[DaBeerz 88]

As a league commissioner everything you do should be above board. Sorry man, you f'd up.