Justina Pelletier

[penultimatestraw 473]

No you misinterpreted my post. I was simply pointing out the Penultimate knows a helluva lot more about the medical field than you and is just generally much, much, MUCH smarter than you.

I would have preferred a few more capitalized muches, but thanks.

[RLLD 3,455]

I know how the medical system works.

 

Despite the sister's opinion, the courts have sided with the BU docs, suggesting my educated guesses aren't far off. If it turns out the BU docs are wrong, they should suffer the legal consequences.

 

They have to side with Chidlrens Hosp, they are tied at the hip. When the gov wants to get an assessment on these cases, that is their go-to entity, they cannot then go against their go-to, think of all the other court cases that would then be challenged.....they are together against the wall on this because of that cozy relationship

[IGotWorms 3,317]

 

The hostipal never administered the requisite tests to establish her condition, what they have done is guess, nothing more. Given that another hospital arrived at another diagnosis, and the girls condition has not improved with the limited access her parents now have, it would seem that the hospital is clearly in th wrong here. The gag order by the judge is also something to consider, given the circumstances one would surmise that the tag team of government and hospital have nothing to fear, but once that order was issued it became clear that they know they overstepped on this one.

 

The parents are going to fight, as they should, ultimately they will have to be ready to settle, and in the end it will ruin them financially, but it will be the only way to wrest their child from an abusive and corrupt system.

Gag order? I didn't read that anywhere but maybe I missed it? A gag order would make some sense though since, you know, a child's medical and psychiatric history is at issue here.

 

At any rate it clearly didn't work since the family is screaming to Fox News left and right to work the dupes up into a tizzy

[penultimatestraw 473]

I will put more weight into the opinion of someone who has lived her entire life in the household over someone who had never even met anyone involved in the situation.

 

It seems to me you are one of those Drs who think just because you went to medical school you know it all.

The sister couldn't possibly be under duress to protect her parents, could she? Or, because of her neurodegenerative condition, not recognize they are crazy? Or suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

 

When the topic was posted, I assumed Phurfur wanted opinions regarding the issues of the case. I gave mine, and it happens to be in-line with the legal status of the girl at this point. If an investigation concludes otherwise, I will gladly eat crow.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

I would have preferred a few more capitalized muches, but thanks.

I nearly bolded the last "much" but I feared it would confuse poor Google Pilot

[Googballz 39]

 

They have to side with Chidlrens Hosp, they are tied at the hip. When the gov wants to get an assessment on these cases, that is their go-to entity, they cannot then go against their go-to, think of all the other court cases that would then be challenged.....they are together against the wall on this because of that cozy relationship

This guy gets it.

[Googballz 39]

The sister couldn't possibly be under duress to protect her parents, could she? Or, because of her neurodegenerative condition, not recognize they are crazy? Or suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

 

When the topic was posted, I assumed Phurfur wanted opinions regarding the issues of the case. I gave mine, and it happens to be in-line with the legal status of the girl at this point. If an investigation concludes otherwise, I will gladly eat crow.

Anything is possible. Especially if one is inclined to jump to conclusions to the extent you are.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

The hostipal never administered the requisite tests to establish her condition, what they have done is guess, nothing more. Given that another hospital arrived at another diagnosis, and the girls condition has not improved with the limited access her parents now have, it would seem that the hospital is clearly in th wrong here. The gag order by the judge is also something to consider, given the circumstances one would surmise that the tag team of government and hospital have nothing to fear, but once that order was issued it became clear that they know they overstepped on this one.

 

The parents are going to fight, as they should, ultimately they will have to be ready to settle, and in the end it will ruin them financially, but it will be the only way to wrest their child from an abusive and corrupt system.

The hospital based its decision on the available data, though it is interesting they didn't perform a muscle biopsy. Of course, that would require the parents' permission before she was taken into custody. And there is no definitive test for medical child abuse.

 

The girl's condition deteriorating doesn't prove anything at this point. Plus that is based on reports from a biased source.

[RLLD 3,455]

Gag order? I didn't read that anywhere but maybe I missed it? A gag order would make some sense though since, you know, a child's medical and psychiatric history is at issue here.

 

At any rate it clearly didn't work since the family is screaming to Fox News left and right to work the dupes up into a tizzy

 

The gag order was put in place back in Novemer because the family was getting traction in the media and the spotlight was getting a little too bright, but the family has been defying that order to keep the issue in the public eye. They are trying to get the justice department to investigate, but short of white house pressue that might not happen.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

They have to side with Chidlrens Hosp, they are tied at the hip. When the gov wants to get an assessment on these cases, that is their go-to entity, they cannot then go against their go-to, think of all the other court cases that would then be challenged.....they are together against the wall on this because of that cozy relationship

I don't think the system is that corrupt.

[RLLD 3,455]

The hospital based its decision on the available data, though it is interesting they didn't perform a muscle biopsy. Of course, that would require the parents' permission before she was taken into custody. And there is no definitive test for medical child abuse.

 

The girl's condition deteriorating doesn't prove anything at this point. Plus that is based on reports from a biased source.

 

Correct, but data is a strong description of what they did. They decided based on come common symptoms, but the issue is that the girl is not getting the proper treatment for her actual and correct diagnosis, and her illness continues, and get worse, due to the improper diagnosis by the hospital, which they can no longer backpedal away from now. That her condition continues, and is getting worse, is a clear indication that this addliction is not due to child abuse, but now anything that happens to her will be due to negligance on the part of the hospital.

[RLLD 3,455]

I don't think the system is that corrupt.

 

 

You are certainly entitled to your own perception of the system, and we can likely agree to disagree.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

 

The gag order was put in place back in Novemer because the family was getting traction in the media and the spotlight was getting a little too bright, but the family has been defying that order to keep the issue in the public eye. They are trying to get the justice department to investigate, but short of white house pressue that might not happen.

I appreciate that that's the way you see it, but what if this gag order really is for the good of the child? I could see a scenario where the parents' only recourse is the media, but on the other hand now you're airing all this kid's medical and psychiatric dirty laundry for the whole world to know. This will fellow her forever. That is perhaps what the judge was attempting to avoid and you have to wonder why the family has chosen to ignore that

[Googballz 39]

The sister couldn't possibly be under duress to protect her parents, could she? Or, because of her neurodegenerative condition, not recognize they are crazy? Or suffer from Stockholm Syndrome?

 

 

Do you often diagnose people with neurodegenerative conditions and Stockhom Syndrome simply from a quote in a news story?

 

There ya go Worms, I think I may be questioning his medical knowledge, or at least his medical ethics, here.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Always fun when the hacks try to take on Pen and he just schools them over and over and over.

And they just keep digging the hole...at least drobs was smart enough to bow out.

GP just keeps coming back for more.

[Googballz 39]

[RLLD 3,455]

I appreciate that that's the way you see it, but what if this gag order really is for the good of the child? I could see a scenario where the parents' only recourse is the media, but on the other hand now you're airing all this kid's medical and psychiatric dirty laundry for the whole world to know. This will fellow her forever. That is perhaps what the judge was attempting to avoid and you have to wonder why the family has chosen to ignore that

 

The family is ignoring the order because the lack of adequate care for her illness, coupled with no attempt to support her educational needs, have left them no choice but to likely sacrafice their freedom to try to save her life. The state will very likely end up causing the death of this child if she is not given proper medial support for her condition.

[penultimatestraw 473]

This guy gets it.

Holy crap, you agree with his assessment, which is based on far more assumptions than mine...

[NewbieJr 540]

Always fun when the hacks try to take on Pen and he just schools them over and over and over.

And they just keep digging the hole...at least drobs was smart enough to bow out.

GP just keeps coming back for more.

Has RP ever known how to bow out without getting his head bashed in first?

[Googballz 39]

Holy crap, you agree with his assessment, which is based on far more assumptions than mine...

Yes, I do.

 

Now, can you tell me if I have high cholesterol by reading this post?

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

Correct, but data is a strong description of what they did. They decided based on come common symptoms, but the issue is that the girl is not getting the proper treatment for her actual and correct diagnosis, and her illness continues, and get worse, due to the improper diagnosis by the hospital, which they can no longer backpedal away from now. That her condition continues, and is getting worse, is a clear indication that this addliction is not due to child abuse, but now anything that happens to her will be due to negligance on the part of the hospital.

You are basing the bolded on the parents' description of their child's condition - is it possible this is inaccurate? Or that her deterioration, if present, is due to an alternative explanation?

 

As I said originally, due to limitations in releasing medical information, you are getting only one side of the story. Situations like these would often be subject to review by a medical ethics committee, comprised in part by physicians who aren't directly involved in the case. Nobody takes the idea of removing a child from their parents' custody lightly.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Do you often diagnose people with neurodegenerative conditions and Stockhom Syndrome simply from a quote in a news story?

 

There ya go Worms, I think I may be questioning his medical knowledge, or at least his medical ethics, here.

Do you often investigate collusion between hospitals and government-sponsored entities? Or just watch/read tabloid press?

 

I'm not a pediatric neurologist or psychiatrist, unlike the doctors who were suspicious of her initial diagnosis. Why do you simply believe a quote from a news story over their clinical expertise?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Yes, I do.

 

Now, can you tell me if I have high cholesterol by reading this post?

I'm guessing constipated, judging by how full of sh!t you are.

.

[Googballz 39]

 

 

I'm not a pediatric neurologist or psychiatrist,

And yet you have diagnosed the parents as "crazy" simply from a news article.

[RLLD 3,455]

You are basing the bolded on the parents' description of their child's condition - is it possible this is inaccurate? Or that her deterioration, if present, is due to an alternative explanation?

 

As I said originally, due to limitations in releasing medical information, you are getting only one side of the story. Situations like these would often be subject to review by a medical ethics committee, comprised in part by physicians who aren't directly involved in the case. Nobody takes the idea of removing a child from their parents' custody lightly.

 

The child was brought to the hospital to treat her illness, her parents were seeking help to identify the source of her ailments and seek assistance for her, that original condition remains and has become worse. One hospital has presented an alternative explanation to the diagnosis of another, we have two competing assessments. Given that the parents have been limited in their access and her condition continues perhaps we should then consider the original diagnosis?

 

Why are you insistent that this child should not receive care based on the original diagnosis?

[Googballz 39]

I'm guessing constipated, judging by how full of sh!t you are.

.

Another innerweb misdiagnosis.

 

Dang. I figured cholesterol diagnosis over the web would be easy since you were able to diagnose her sister with a few pretty serious afflictions simply because her first hand account of the living conditions in the house she grew up in differs from your assumptions about those conditions from thousands of miles away.

[FeelingMN 273]

Been around a few kids who have been removed from the home. It is done reluctantly and only after warning signs have been noticed over a period of time.

 

The girl's behavior ultimately is what is driving this diagnosis. They kept her in a psych unit for observation before placing her elsewhere. She had to have exhibited a certain pattern of behavior for them to stick with their diagnosis. She would have been placed closer to home had the parents been more cooperative.

 

[drobeski 3,061]

Has anyone asked this girl what she wants ?

State doesnt always know best, sorta been proven the opposite

[edjr 5,567]

Has anyone asked this girl what she wants ?

State doesnt always know best, sorta been proven the opposite

 

I agree the state doesn't know best. Especially in a state where Jared Remy wasn't in prison and he can assault a woman 17 different times and have over 60 other incidents on his record, including telling people over 30 times he would kill them.

 

Doesn't mean the child knows any better, not at that age.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Been around a few kids who have been removed from the home. It is done reluctantly and only after warning signs have been noticed over a period of time.

 

The girl's behavior ultimately is what is driving this diagnosis. They kept her in a psych unit for observation before placing her elsewhere. She had to have exhibited a certain pattern of behavior for them to stick with their diagnosis. She would have been placed closer to home had the parents been more cooperative.

 

 

Yeah, never a good thing...and sorry, but the State is not in business to just take kids as some here seem to want us to believe.

That is not to say there is not corruption, waste, abuse, fraud or general incompetence in these systems.

But having read DCS casefiles before...its not just done on a whim...there is so much protocol to have to follow and document to do these things.

[Googballz 39]

Been around a few kids who have been removed from the home. It is done reluctantly and only after warning signs have been noticed over a period of time.

 

The girl's behavior ultimately is what is driving this diagnosis. They kept her in a psych unit for observation before placing her elsewhere. She had to have exhibited a certain pattern of behavior for them to stick with their diagnosis. She would have been placed closer to home had the parents been more cooperative.

 

Is there any evidence of anything "over a period of time"? Seems to me the hospital staff decided on taking her away immediately when the father questioned their diagnosis.

[FeelingMN 273]

Is there any evidence of anything "over a period of time"? Seems to me the hospital staff decided on taking her away immediately when the father questioned their diagnosis.

Sounds to me that she's been seeing doctors for a while, including doctors at Boston Children's.

 

And they didn't decide to take her away immediately when the father questioned their diagnosis. They called the state after his temper flared.

[Googballz 39]

Sounds to me that she's been seeing doctors for a while, including doctors at Boston Children's.

 

And they didn't decide to take her away immediately when the father questioned their diagnosis. They called the state after his temper flared.

Yeah. I said they decided to take her away as soon as he questioned their diagnosis. It would seem tempers flared on both sides, and IMO the hospital went after the child abuse claims just after that.

 

 

 

 

The Pelletier family rejected the new psychiatric diagnosis and wanted to bring Justina back to Tufts, Moran said. He claims the hospital tried to force the girl's parents to sign papers preventing them from seeking another opinion.

 

 

After tempers flared between the Pelletiers and staff at Boston Children's, the hospital notified the state that it suspected the parents of medical child abuse.

 

I have yet to see anything about abuse, prior or since, on the parents part. Except in Penultimate's assumptions.

[drobeski 3,061]

The parents are crazy, they should be evaluated by a nutritionist asap.

[FeelingMN 273]

Yeah. I said they decided to take her away as soon as he questioned their diagnosis. It would seem tempers flared on both sides, and IMO the hospital went after the child abuse claims just after that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have yet to see anything about abuse, prior or since, on the parents part. Except in Penultimate's assumptions.

The parents are being accused of medical child abuse.....the abuse consists of subjecting your kid to unnecessary medical procedures.

 

[Googballz 39]

The parents are being accused of medical child abuse.....the abuse consists of subjecting your kid to unnecessary medical procedures.

 

Yeah. They disagreed with the diagnosis and wanted to go back to the original doctors. They were not allowed to see the doctor Tufts sent them to see, and when they wanted to leave the hospital pulled out "medical child abuse" charges.

 

What exactly did they do to abuse their child medically?

[MDC 5,895]

at drobs and Google.

[IGotWorms 3,317]

Yeah. They disagreed with the diagnosis and wanted to go back to the original doctors. They were not allowed to see the doctor Tufts sent them to see, and when they wanted to leave the hospital pulled out "medical child abuse" charges.

 

What exactly did they do to abuse their child medically?

What part of "we're only hearing the family's side of the story" is difficult for you to understand?

 

You and RLLD are taking it as God's given truth for some inexplicable reason

[Googballz 39]

What part of "we're only hearing the family's side of the story" is difficult for you to understand?

 

You and RLLD are taking it as God's given truth for some inexplicable reason

 

Yeah, "God's given truth"

 

I have seen the parents interviewed a few times. They don't seem crazy to me, but who knows. On the face of it I think the hospital is out of line.

 

 

Seriously, are you really this dumb?

[FeelingMN 273]

What part of "we're only hearing the family's side of the story" is difficult for you to understand?

You and RLLD are taking it as God's given truth for some inexplicable reason

 

Recliner Pelletier

 

Yeah. They disagreed with the diagnosis and wanted to go back to the original doctors. They were not allowed to see the doctor Tufts sent them to see, and when they wanted to leave the hospital pulled out "medical child abuse" charges.

 

What exactly did they do to abuse their child medically?

Dunno. Maybe we can find an article where the doctors/social workers discuss the case. Otherwise we just have the family's account.