40 U.S. veterans die while on Phoenix VA hospital's cost-cutting secret wait list

[NewbieJr 540]

The fake list exists because they were trying to quantify wait times, something few private insurers do. It isn't Obama's fault people were trying to game the system meant to improve quality.

First rule of Geek Club- EVERYTHING is Obama's fault. No exceptions.

[penultimatestraw 473]

First rule of Geek Club- EVERYTHING is Obama's fault. No exceptions.

What about your diet and dedication to weight lifting?

[Googballz 39]

The fake list exists because they were trying to quantify wait times, something few private insurers do. It isn't Obama's fault people were trying to game the system meant to improve quality.

The fake list exists to falsely report shorter wait times back to an administration who ran on reducing those wait times.

[penultimatestraw 473]

The fake list exists to falsely report shorter wait times back to an administration who ran on reducing those wait times.

People in the VA were trying to game the system, which was meant to improve wait times. How does that have anything to do with Obama?

[drobeski 3,061]

They were cooking the books for bonuses

[penultimatestraw 473]

They were cooking the books for bonuses

Again, what does that have to do with Obama? The policy was meant to incentivize good behavior, and some people tried to weasel their way around the actual purpose for personal gain.

[drobeski 3,061]

Again, what does that have to do with Obama? The policy was meant to incentivize good behavior, and some people tried to weasel their way around the actual purpose for personal gain.

i didn't mention Obama and i'm not sure when the bonus program started, if it was under his watch and was designed to help meet his set goals then i'd say it has a lot to do with him.

I'll see if i can find that answer.

[penultimatestraw 473]

i didn't mention Obama and i'm not sure when the bonus program started, if it was under his watch and was designed to help meet his set goals then i'd say it has a lot to do with him.

I'll see if i can find that answer.

Even if he created the program, why is it his fault that people abused it? Should we expect medical professionals to try and game the system meant to improve wait times (a noble goal in my estimation)?

[drobeski 3,061]

Even if he created the program, why is it his fault that people abused it? Should we expect medical professionals to try and game the system meant to improve wait times (a noble goal in my estimation)?

we should expect oversight and accountability, a 3 page bill was passed in the house that would do just that, reid didn't even bring it to a vote.

I must keep in mind, this administration shall be help accountable for nothing.

My bad

[Googballz 39]

Even if he created the program, why is it his fault that people abused it?

Could it be that he set up a program with goals of improving wait times with no checks and balances to monitor what was going on?

 

Even he admits it is his responsibility.

[drobeski 3,061]

Besides why would any government employee need a bonus at all, never mind to do a good job?

They do not create profit or income.

 

It's pretty ridiculous one would think,no ?

[jerryskids 5,206]

Even if he created the program, why is it his fault that people abused it? Should we expect medical professionals to try and game the system meant to improve wait times (a noble goal in my estimation)?

Unintended consequences. Rinse and repeat. Also Obama seems to suck at building a competent staff. Or... he is the type of leader who doesn't want to hear the bad news first. Probably all of the above.

[Voltaire 4,562]

Unintended consequences. Rinse and repeat. Also Obama seems to suck at building a competent staff. Or... he is the type of leader who doesn't want to hear the bad news first. Probably all of the above.

 

I gotta admit, a governor of Kansas with solid bi-partisan support seemed a good fit as backup option for HHS seemed a good fit at the time. Same with Shinseki at the VA since he alone demonstrated a firm grasp of the difficulties of invading Iraq at the start, he seemed like a capable guy. I can't say I knew much about Eric Holder before he got the Attorney General job, but I can concede that President Obama felt the need for some diversity in one of his top department jobs and I am ashamed to admit I gave him the benefit of the doubt on that one too.

 

So he really uncovered some uber-duds but it wasn't so clear at the time. They let him down, it's going to happen. Where he fails is he sticks with them too long after they prove they are terrible for the job. We should have already long forgotten about Holder ten fock ups ago and Shinseki and Sebuleus should have been dropped immediately when they proved inept. The Bushtard had the same problem. Other than a few: Gonzalez, Bolden, and Edith Bunker for SCOTUS, his appointments actually didn't seem so bad at the beginning.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Unintended consequences. Rinse and repeat. Also Obama seems to suck at building a competent staff. Or... he is the type of leader who doesn't want to hear the bad news first. Probably all of the above.

Oh, I see. You want stricter regulation, with close monitoring by the government.

[jerryskids 5,206]

Oh, I see. You want stricter regulation, with close monitoring by the government.

Is this a troll post? Seems unlike you.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Is this a troll post? Seems unlike you.

No, I just think Obama being blamed for the misconduct of others several levels hierarchically below the president is absurd. My guess is, abuses have been going on for years in both the VA and private world, and tracking them brought them to light, rather than causing them. In other words, Veterans have been waiting for their care long before Obama took office, and the individual hospital administrators should be far more accountable for their staff's behavior.

[SUXBNME 1,337]

No, I just think Obama being blamed for the misconduct of others several levels hierarchically below the president is absurd. My guess is, abuses have been going on for years in both the VA and private world, and tracking them brought them to light, rather than causing them. In other words, Veterans have been waiting for their care long before Obama took office, and the individual hospital administrators should be far more accountable for their staff's behavior.

From everything that I have read and been told, this seems to be true.

Allegedly Bush supposedly did some good reform back in the day concerning Walter Reed, but this info is from a neighbor Vet, so I don't know the validity of it.

[jerryskids 5,206]

No, I just think Obama being blamed for the misconduct of others several levels hierarchically below the president is absurd. My guess is, abuses have been going on for years in both the VA and private world, and tracking them brought them to light, rather than causing them. In other words, Veterans have been waiting for their care long before Obama took office, and the individual hospital administrators should be far more accountable for their staff's behavior.

Oh great, because I didn't blame him for that. And this response has nothing to do with your troll post. Otherwise, you might have a point.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Oh great, because I didn't blame him for that. And this response has nothing to do with your troll post. Otherwise, you might have a point.

You suggested he didn't anticipate unintended consequences, chose incompetent staff, and/or he didn't want to hear about problems. Those critiques have nothing to do with some low level weasels trying to game the system, or the VA's long term shortcomings. Otherwise, you might have a point.

[jerryskids 5,206]

You suggested he didn't anticipate unintended consequences, chose incompetent staff, and/or he didn't want to hear about problems. Those critiques have nothing to do with some low level weasels trying to game the system, or the VA's long term shortcomings. Otherwise, you might have a point.

I stand by those statements. And you started this by responding to my post with "you want stricter regulation, with close monitoring by the government." Which is an inane comment for a government-run department. I stand corrected; you didn't have a point.

[penultimatestraw 473]

I stand by those statements. And you started this by responding to my post with "you want stricter regulation, with close monitoring by the government." Which is an inane comment for a government-run department. I stand corrected; you didn't have a point.

My non-sequitur was in reply to yours. HTH.

[Phurfur 70]

The Obama administration’s Department of Veterans Affairs (VA) expects to have more money for medical care than it can spend for the fifth fiscal year in a row, The Daily Caller has learned.

 

Republican lawmakers and veteran groups are currently calling for the resignation of VA Secretary Eric Shinseki over secret waiting lists kept at the Phoenix VA Medical Center that led to preventable veteran deaths.

 

Despite liberal claims that VA needs more funding, based on a report from the labor union the American Federation of Government Employees (AFGE) that VA is underfunded, the scandal-plagued department actually has a surplus in medical-care funding.

 

VA expects to carry over $450 million in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2014 to fiscal year 2015. VA received its full requested medical care appropriation of $54.6 billion this fiscal year, which is more than $10 billion more than it received four years ago.

 

This is part of an ongoing trend.

 

VA carried over $1.449 billion in medical-care funding from fiscal year 2010 to 2011, $1.163 billion from fiscal year 2011 to fiscal year 2012, $637 million from fiscal year 2012 to 2013, and $543 million from fiscal year 2013 to 2014.

 

The Daily Caller reported that VA spent more than $3.5 million on furniture the night before the government shutdown on the last day of fiscal year 2013 so as not to lose that money in the department’s budget the next fiscal year.

 

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/27/va-expects-to-have-more-medical-care-funding-than-it-can-spend-for-fifth-year/

[Googballz 39]

Avg wait for first appt. in Phoenix: 115 Days.

 

91 Days longer than they were reporting.

 

 

 

Time to hashtag someone's ass.

[NewbieJr 540]

OBAMA!!!!!!!

[Googballz 39]

OBAMA!!!!!!!

The thought processes required for this thread is above your pay grade, Sport.

 

Stick to compiling the ass wiping habits of a bunch of anonymous men on the net. Much more your speed.

[NewbieJr 540]

The thought processes required for this thread is above your pay grade, Sport.

 

Stick to compiling the ass wiping habits of a bunch of anonymous men on the net. Much more your speed.

Continue obsessing over Obama and politics 24/7. It's quite a life.

[Googballz 39]

Awesome job proving my point, Sport.

[NewbieJr 540]

Awesome job proving my point, Sport.

How's this:

The VA healthcare system is and has been a mess for far too long. Something seriously needs to be done and people should be fired for it.

 

End of thread.

 

The problem is, that has been said a hundred times already. But you're obsessed. With everything and anything political. It's your entire life. So the thread will linger on and on and on and on. Until a new Benghazi thread give you a boner. Or maybe a new Obamacare fact that shows something negative. Or maybe a new rumor about him being born in another country. God, I swear I'd blast my brains out if I ever became like you or phurfur. So sad.

[Googballz 39]

So you just typed what others have said a hundred times in this thread?

 

Further confirmation this is beyond you.

[TimmySmith 2,782]

How's this:

The VA healthcare system is and has been a mess for far too long. Something seriously needs to be done and people should be fired for it.

 

End of thread.

 

The problem is, that has been said a hundred times already. But you're obsessed. With everything and anything political. It's your entire life. So the thread will linger on and on and on and on. Until a new Benghazi thread give you a boner. Or maybe a new Obamacare fact that shows something negative. Or maybe a new rumor about him being born in another country. God, I swear I'd blast my brains out if I ever became like you or phurfur. So sad.

Sorry Newbie, but the thread will linger because everyday more and more abuse is coming out. Perhaps you can call up NBC, CBS and ABC and get them to take it off the lead story. A good question is why did Democrats wait so long to get on board, because they are doing so now. Your obvious obsession with certain members of this board is clouding your judgement.

[Phurfur 70]

Sorry Newbie, but the thread will linger because everyday more and more abuse is coming out. Perhaps you can call up NBC, CBS and ABC and get them to take it off the lead story. A good question is why did Democrats wait so long to get on board, because they are doing so now. Your obvious obsession with certain members of this board is clouding your judgement.

Yup, he removed the eye with judgement, the problem is that he was already blind in the eye with love. We are dealing with a light weight Meat Head.

[NewbieJr 540]

Sorry Newbie, but the thread will linger because everyday more and more abuse is coming out. Perhaps you can call up NBC, CBS and ABC and get them to take it off the lead story. A good question is why did Democrats wait so long to get on board, because they are doing so now. Your obvious obsession with certain members of this board is clouding your judgement.

It is a big story. No one is saying otherwise. I hope it gets fixed. And people get fired. Like I said, just about everyone in this thread has said that. And I hope this is the president that finally puts his foot down and does something about it. It's been going on through many, many administrations, both Democrat and Republican.

[Phurfur 70]

We have Federal employees who are willing to let people die so they can collect bonuses. We are the Great Society!

 

One fix will be that everyone gets bonuses no matter what their performance so this never happens again.

[Phurfur 70]

Let me see...... Unqualified Incompetent leaders in charge of union employees = dysfunctional government = Department of Veteran Affairs.

 

Obama lied veterans died!

[NewbieJr 540]

Yawn

[Phurfur 70]

The issue at hand is known as “official time.”

 

“Official time is the euphemism for government employees doing the business of their labor union rather than doing the work of the government. Different departments allow different amounts, but even an hour of your time shouldn’t be funded by tax dollars if they’re doing the work of the union. That’s what the union dues are supposed to pay for,” said Fred Wszolek of the Workforce Fairness Institute.

 

As early as June 2013, Sens. Rob Portman, R-Ohio, and Tom Coburn, R-Okla., sent a letter to Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki to express their concern that 257 VA employees working on “official time” were busy doing work for the unions rather than making life easier for veterans, as they are paid to do. A full 188 of those VA employees on 100 percent “official time” would typically be fulfilling roles in direct support of veterans in areas such as health care and security.

 

“Documents from your department list 188 VA employees serving in 100 percent official time capacity during the time period spanning January 1, 2012 through February 2013. During this time of sequestration and tight budgets, it is important to know how so many employees can be spared to serve the interest of outside groups, instead of carrying out jobs that are essential to the health, safety and transition of our nation’s veterans,” wrote the senators.

 

 

Read more at http://www.wnd.com/2014/05/va-workers-serving-unions-instead-of-veterans/#bG1PaZ1Mrs56SBOU.99

[Sho Nuff 719]

Let me see...... Unqualified Incompetent leaders in charge of union employees = dysfunctional government = Department of Veteran Affairs.

 

Obama lied veterans died!

How was Shinseki unqualified?

[NewbieJr 540]

That will be phurfur's 15th ignored/unanswered question of the day.

 

He didn't know there'd be a test.

[Googballz 39]

How was Shinseki unqualified?

Dunno.

 

Dozens dead under his watch simply because folks are looking for bonuses?

[Phurfur 70]

Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki announced Friday that he would oust senior leaders at the embattled Phoenix VA, ahead of a private meeting with President Obama where the two are expected to have a "serious conversation" about whether Shinseki himself can stay in the job.

 

The two plan to meet at 10:15 a.m. ET in the Oval Office. Obama, in an interview, said he planned to ask Shinseki whether he was "prepared and has the capacity" to fix sweeping problems in the VA's nationwide health care system. The president has faced mounting calls from members of both parties to remove Shinseki.

 

Earlier Friday morning, Shinseki publicly apologized for the failures in the VA system, while stopping short of offering his resignation. However, responding to an interim inspector general report which found "systemic" problems with clinics lying about patient wait times, Shinseki announced the firings at the Phoenix VA, where allegations of improper scheduling practices first surfaced.

 

Shinseki, speaking to advocates for homeless veterans, said he initially believed the problems were "limited and isolated."

 

"I no longer believe that. It is systemic," Shinseki said. "I will not defend it, because it is indefensible."

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/30/obama-to-meet-with-shinseki-amid-mounting-calls-for-resignation/