40 U.S. veterans die while on Phoenix VA hospital's cost-cutting secret wait list

[Phurfur 70]

The fact that he moved plants overseas left a bad taste in my mouth. That was a lot of jobs and a ton of tax revenue for this country.

 

But that wasn't an isolated reason. I think it was a horrible choice by the Republican Party. The only people in this country who are prospering are the filthy rich. It was my opinion that having one of them run the country was the last thing we needed.

I outsourced almost a hundred jobs in my career but that outsourcing saved almost a thousand of jobs. Corporations are not created to give you a job or pay taxes, they are created to make a profit if they can't make a profit they go belly up. The correct way of viewing this is that Romney saved tens of thousands of jobs.

 

Another prime example of a Lefty with no economic knowledge talking stupid.

[Phurfur 70]

And herein lies the problem for the left: the failures at the VA, including its bureaucratic incompetence, its waiting lists, and its deaths, all debunk the notion that a government-run healthcare system will work. It’s a fresh slap in the face to all those commentators who, in pushing Obamacare, endorsed the VA as a model.

 

There are some pretty big names on that list. Paul Krugman in 2011 wrote of the VA’s “huge success story”:

 

Multiple surveys have found the VHA providing better care than most Americans receive, even as the agency has held cost increases well below those facing Medicare and private insurers…the VHA is an integrated system, which provides health care as well as paying for it. So it’s free from the perverse incentives created when doctors and hospitals profit from expensive tests and procedures, whether or not those procedures actually make medical sense.

 

Krugman added, “Yes, this is ‘socialized medicine’…But it works, and suggests what it will take to solve the troubles of US health care more broadly.”

 

Similarly, Nicholas Kristof of the Times wrote in 2009:

 

Take the hospital system run by the Department of Veterans Affairs, the largest integrated health system in the United States. It is fully government run, much more “socialized medicine” than is Canadian health care with its private doctors and hospitals. And the system for veterans is by all accounts one of the best-performing and most cost-effectiveelements in the American medical establishment.

 

Just last year, Uwe Reinhardt of Princeton wrote in the pages of the Times:

 

Remarkably, Americans of all political stripes have long reserved for our veterans the purest form of socialized medicine, the vast health system operated by the U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs (generally known as the V.A. health system). If socialized medicine is as bad as so many on this side of the Atlantic claim, why have both political parties ruling this land deemed socialized medicine the best health system for military veterans? Or do they just not care about them?

 

Or try the RAND Corporation: “If other health care providers followed the V.A.’s lead, it would be a major step toward improving the quality of care across the U.S. health care system.”

http://www.truthrevolt.org/commentary/shapiro-lefts-va-worship-comes-back-bite

[Voltaire 4,562]

This has to be a troll post. You know Reid fed you that tax evasion blatant lie right?

Reid would have had access to Romney's tax records only if Congress subpoenaed them from the IRS. Of course, that never happened, Republicans on the relevant committee would have blocked it. He either got a copy or Romney's tax records illegally or he went with heresy from a source of unknown reliability or he made it up. It has to be one of those three. And none of them make him look good.

 

On the other hand, I'm convinced there was something really rotten in those records.

 

I think the reason the accusations stuck so well is that Romney steadfastly refused to release his tax records despite the intense heat on him to do so. To me it says that whatever was in those tax records must have been pretty damning such that Romney decided it was better to be quiet and continue taking the hits for not releasing them rather than to actually release them and suffer the consequences of revealing what was inside.

[crackattack 513]

Romney released two years worth of his taxes. 2010 and 2011 in which he paid almost 5million total for those years. Why should anyone assume his past years were any different? It was a cheap shot that unfortunately stuck with some.

[Googballz 39]

Romney released two years worth of his taxes. 2010 and 2011 in which he paid almost 5million total for those years. Why should anyone assume his past years were any different? It was a cheap shot that unfortunately stuck with some.

 

 

Only folks that it stuck with are those who literally can't think for themselves. Their knowledge of anything political amounts to nothing more than them regurgitating talking points, no matter how blatantly untrue.

[SUXBNME 1,337]

This has to be a troll post.

Does he ever have one that isn't?

[MedStudent 56]

 

One of his first and "biggest" moves? He really like the berets that the green berets had, so he made the entire Army wear them. They are the most impractical, difficult and most ineffective items on the planet, but this is where this phag decided to dedicate his efforts.

 

Has since been repealed.

 

Just an absolutely worthless cunnt.

I thought that was more a recruiting tool. Kids think the berets look cool. Didn't the black panthers wear berets too?

[SUXBNME 1,337]

Didn't the black panthers wear berets too?

They wore nooses

[Phurfur 70]

WASHINGTON – Despite rampant allegations of veterans stuck in limbo waiting for care, hundreds of jobs remain unfilled at the Department of Veterans Affairs -- including at some of the very locations where doctors supposedly were too short-staffed to see patients.

 

A search by FoxNews.com on Friday of the USA Jobs federal employment website showed more than 1,080 current vacancies in health-related fields at the VA.

 

A search of the words “VA” and “physician” yielded 167 jobs openings with top-range salaries of roughly $295,000 a year. There are 18 openings alone in the Phoenix VA Health Care System – the same one facing allegations that up to 40 people died while waiting for treatment.

 

One full-time position is for the chief of medicine. The vacancy, posted April 15 and open until June 13, comes with an annual salary up to $235,000.

 

The VA pitches the job as a don't-miss opportunity. The ad boasts that “as a VA physician, your opportunities are endless” -- the agency offers "generous paid time off and a variety of predictable and flexible scheduling opportunities.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/26/hundreds-jobs-posted-at-va-hospitals-clinics-as-scandal-grows/

[Sho Nuff 719]

Obama better get on those interviews for all those jobs.

[SUXBNME 1,337]

Obama better get on those interviews for all those jobs.

Up to $235,000.

From what I've heard, the VA is not exactly where good doctors go to practice. Sad, really.

 

Med? Petu? Did either of you ever consider the VA?

 

How much do Chief Medical Officers make? According to the ACPE / CEJKA Physician Executive Compensation Survey, CMOs have a median salary of $324,750 not including bonuses. We’ve covered before that bonuses can be an average of 20% on top which totals the salary of a CMO to $389,700.

 

Seems to me given .gov loves to spend money you would think that they would make a CMO position more attractive than that. Then again, I just turn wrenches and fuk kats. What do I know?

[Voltaire 4,562]

Up to $235,000.

From what I've heard, the VA is not exactly where good doctors go to practice. Sad, really.

 

 

You either get Ajit who speaks limited English and is just happy for a green card or you get the guy who went the "D is for Doctor" route during brief periods of sobriety at an open admission med school in the Caribbean for rich Americans who's only real joy and talent and joy is life is insulting patients and screwing the Haitian nurses.

[penultimatestraw 473]

WASHINGTON – Despite rampant allegations of veterans stuck in limbo waiting for care, hundreds of jobs remain unfilled at the Department of Veterans Affairs -- including at some of the very locations where doctors supposedly were too short-staffed to see patients.

 

A search by FoxNews.com on Friday of the USA Jobs federal employment website showed more than 1,080 current vacancies in health-related fields at the VA.

 

A search of the words “VA” and “physician” yielded 167 jobs openings with top-range salaries of roughly $295,000 a year. There are 18 openings alone in the Phoenix VA Health Care System – the same one facing allegations that up to 40 people died while waiting for treatment.

 

One full-time position is for the chief of medicine. The vacancy, posted April 15 and open until June 13, comes with an annual salary up to $235,000.

 

The VA pitches the job as a don't-miss opportunity. The ad boasts that “as a VA physician, your opportunities are endless” -- the agency offers "generous paid time off and a variety of predictable and flexible scheduling opportunities.”

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/26/hundreds-jobs-posted-at-va-hospitals-clinics-as-scandal-grows/

I don't understand the point - are you implying the long waits were a consequence of lazy doctors? I haven't really been following the story, but I'd guess physician availability has something to do with wait times?

 

In general, there is a shortage of primary care providers. And VA salaries are low. Does it surprise anyone that they have unfilled positions?

[penultimatestraw 473]

Up to $235,000.

From what I've heard, the VA is not exactly where good doctors go to practice. Sad, really.

 

Med? Petu? Did either of you ever consider the VA?

 

How much do Chief Medical Officers make? According to the ACPE / CEJKA Physician Executive Compensation Survey, CMOs have a median salary of $324,750 not including bonuses. We’ve covered before that bonuses can be an average of 20% on top which totals the salary of a CMO to $389,700.

 

Seems to me given .gov loves to spend money you would think that they would make a CMO position more attractive than that. Then again, I just turn wrenches and fuk kats. What do I know?

Part of my training was at VAs, and I liked it. The best clinician I ever trained under is a VA physician. I chose not to work in the one in Hawaii because it is too far from my house, with no easy access by bicycle. Plus I hate the formality of the military.

 

But the pay is not comparable to the private world either.

[penultimatestraw 473]

You either get Ajit who speaks limited English and is just happy for a green card or you get the guy who went the "D is for Doctor" route during brief periods of sobriety at an open admission med school in the Caribbean for rich Americans who's only real joy and talent and joy is life is insulting patients and screwing the Haitian nurses.

While the VA does use a lot of foreign medical graduates, they also have some really great doctors. The physician I mention in my post above is a world authority in her field of expertise, domestically trained, and the most caring clinician you will ever meet.

[Voltaire 4,562]

Plus I hate the formality of the military.

 

 

Can you extrapolate on how tthe formality of the military affected your VA experience. The VA is it's own department outside the Defense department so it should be more immune. Granted, the patients would be ex-military, maybe a lot of staff ex-military, so maybe...

[penultimatestraw 473]

Can you extrapolate on how tthe formality of the military affected your VA experience. The VA is it's own department outside the Defense department so it should be more immune. Granted, the patients would be ex-military, maybe a lot of staff ex-military, so maybe...

Many of the physicians are ex- or current military, and most of the patients are. While I understand the necessity in a military situation, I deplore the hierarchy and rigidity imposed by the system.

 

As most of the patients are male and the rooms are often shared, it does lead to some entertaining, locker-room style situations at times. I'm certain females get plenty of sexist remarks in that environment, which probably makes them less likely to apply for VA jobs.

[Voltaire 4,562]

Many of the physicians are ex- or current military, and most of the patients are. While I understand the necessity in a military situation, I deplore the hierarchy and rigidity imposed by the system.

 

As most of the patients are male and the rooms are often shared, it does lead to some entertaining, locker-room style situations at times. I'm certain females get plenty of sexist remarks in that environment, which probably makes them less likely to apply for VA jobs.

I agree with you. The military is such a poorly run organization. People are lazy, only wanting to do what they are supposed to and no more, and a general attitude of "I don't give a fock". I was miserable the whole time. It's why when the Ft, Hood soldier shot the personnel clerk (and a few others) a few months back, I sort of chuckled. I know the feeling. I mean, I feel bad for everybody else who got shot but I'm relatively certain that the first guy he shot richly deserved his lead slug. (uh oh I finally said it). Army personnel people are the bottom of humanity, one step above Failhawker. Incompetence, neglect, causing rage and focking you over is what they do to 20-30 people every day so shooting one instills no sympathy on my part.

 

Anyways, I'm wondering if since the military is such cr@p, and since they never gave a sh*t about us, this might very well be the reason there is so much overlap into the VA since my experience with them has been no better.

[jerryskids 5,206]

While the VA does use a lot of foreign medical graduates, they also have some really great doctors. The physician I mention in my post above is a world authority in her field of expertise, domestically trained, and the most caring clinician you will ever meet.

Can size?

[drobeski 3,061]

Welcome to government run health care

[Phurfur 70]

What we have here is a dysfunctional government. Dysfunctional people are not capable of seeing that.

[Phurfur 70]

Welcome to government run health care

Congressional lawmakers and President Obama are turning to privatization to help veterans who are stuck on long waiting lists at medical facilities run by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/26/push-to-privatize-veterans-affairs-gaining-traction/?intcmp=latestnews

[Sho Nuff 719]

What we have here is a dysfunctional government. Dysfunctional people are not capable of seeing that.

 

You might be the 2nd most dysfunctional person here behind GFIAFP.

[Sho Nuff 719]

Congressional lawmakers and President Obama are turning to privatization to help veterans who are stuck on long waiting lists at medical facilities run by the Department of Veterans Affairs.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/26/push-to-privatize-veterans-affairs-gaining-traction/?intcmp=latestnews

 

Whats your opinion on this...good or bad?

[NewbieJr 540]

 

Whats your opinion on this...good or bad?

I'm sure it's exactly the same as Fox News' opinion.

[penultimatestraw 473]

 

Whats your opinion on this...good or bad?

It also would be interesting to know what he knows about the wait times for private physician appointments, and how this differs according to insurance type. Should wealthy people have access to better (at least more expedient) medical care?

[drobeski 3,061]

It also would be interesting to know what he knows about the wait times for private physician appointments, and how this differs according to insurance type. Should wealthy people have access to better (at least more expedient) medical care?

about 15 days with my pc. Work subsidized health care, i pay for it its ok if i dont have to wait too long. Its ok to work,

orovide, and benefit and not feel guilty about it also.

[penultimatestraw 473]

about 15 days with my pc. Work subsidized health care, i pay for it its ok if i dont have to wait too long. Its ok to work,

orovide, and benefit and not feel guilty about it also.

How long have you been with your provider? Does he/she accept Medicare? Medicaid? All these things factor significantly into wait times. Not just your willingness to work, unlike them lazy/freeloading old and/or disabled beneficiaries of government-sponsored insurance.

[Phurfur 70]

Obama lied, Veterans died!

[crackattack 513]

Obama lied, Veterans died!

It's funny that they new about the wait times and problems allllll the way back to 2005 and nothing was done. Our vets deserve better, but are failed by our entire government. Both sides fail these young men and women and it's a shame that people want to make it political talking points. The lost life's of our vets are no more then OBAMA!!!! to some of you. These problems have existed forever , but some only care if it makes one side look bad. Sad sad state of affairs.

[drobeski 3,061]

How long have you been with your provider? Does he/she accept Medicare? Medicaid? All these things factor significantly into wait times. Not just your willingness to work, unlike them lazy/freeloading old and/or disabled beneficiaries of government-sponsored insurance.

would everyone suffering equally make you feel better ?

[Googballz 39]

It's funny that they new about the wait times and problems allllll the way back to 2005 and nothing was done. Our vets deserve better, but are failed by our entire government. Both sides fail these young men and women and it's a shame that people want to make it political talking points. The lost life's of our vets are no more then OBAMA!!!! to some of you. These problems have existed forever , but some only care if it makes one side look bad. Sad sad state of affairs.

These fake lists started on Obama's watch.

 

Obama campaigned on fixing this, and has said several times he was fixing it.

[crackattack 513]

These fake lists started on Obama's watch.

 

Obama campaigned on fixing this, and has said several times he was fixing it.

Fake lists might have, but the administration was warned about wait times when they took office. That means the wait times were long and focked up in the previous administration. See the connection here. Nothing was done to help these men and women....period. yet you want to talk about fake lists??

 

How about the real issue? How about we've failed these vets for decades? How about that? Fake lists are way more important I guess.

[NewbieJr 540]

Fake lists might have, but the administration was warned about wait times when they took office. That means the wait times were long and focked up in the previous administration. See the connection here. Nothing was done to help these men and women....period. yet you want to talk about fake lists??

BUSH!!!!!

 

(They won't acknowledge him. They want everyone to forget he ever existed. He's like Richie Cunningham's older brother who appeared in the pilot. They pretend he never happened. And want you to, also)

[Voltaire 4,562]

Hopefully this fake waiting list scandal will be the kick in the ass the VA needs to make changes. Even if Shinseki doesn't resign, all eyes are on him. I just don't know that he really gives a fock since he is responsible for overseeing the department, the problems were long known, and he did nothing. He wouldn't do anything at all if he wasn't embarrassed. Then his whole testimony was more CYA than fix the problem. He doesn't give the impression at all that he's up to the task; he had his chance to be part of the solution but looks more part of the problem to me.

[crackattack 513]

Hopefully this fake waiting list scandal will be the kick in the ass the VA needs to make changes. Even if Shinseki doesn't resign, all eyes are on him. I just don't know that he really gives a fock since he is responsible for overseeing the department, the problems were long known, and he did nothing. He wouldn't do anything at all if he wasn't embarrassed. Then his whole testimony was more CYA than fix the problem. He doesn't give the impression at all that he's up to the task; he had his chance to be part of the solution but looks more part of the problem to me.

Yes. I agree. Hopefully it will be the kick in the ass needed.

[penultimatestraw 473]

would everyone suffering equally make you feel better ?

Equal access to care would make me feel better. The idea that wealthy people should have special privilege regarding their health care is reprehensible.

[drobeski 3,061]

Equal access to care would make me feel better. The idea that wealthy people should have special privilege regarding their health care is reprehensible.

im not rich and was ok with my healthcare, guilt free even. Guilt should be earned, not a gift,same as making a living.

[penultimatestraw 473]

Fake lists might have, but the administration was warned about wait times when they took office. That means the wait times were long and focked up in the previous administration. See the connection here. Nothing was done to help these men and women....period. yet you want to talk about fake lists??

 

How about the real issue? How about we've failed these vets for decades? How about that? Fake lists are way more important I guess.

The fake list exists because they were trying to quantify wait times, something few private insurers do. It isn't Obama's fault people were trying to game the system meant to improve quality.

[penultimatestraw 473]

im not rich and was ok with my healthcare, guilt free even. Guilt should be earned, not a gift,same as making a living.

I'm not saying anyone should be guilty, just we shouldn't stratify our health care based on ability to pay.