For those of you who support a woman's right to choose

[MDC 7,899]

I'm not 100% pro life, I am just closer to that side of the scale than the [cartman] 'I do what I WANT! [/cartman] its my body bs.... I see it as a sometimes necessary evil

I didn't say people should be able to do anything they want. I didn't present my own view on abortion at all. I said in my experience women who've had an abortion don't regret it or feel like broken people afterward, and this is consistent with the existing research.

 

And for that the pro lifers here have had an utter toddler meltdown.

[DankNuggs 305]

So your ok with it in some instances? Like rape or incest type? Or what?

More than that, Less than whats going on now...

 

It just rubs me the wrong way that people seem justified to give so little respect and acknowledgement of worth because they need that to rationalize the act they are going to commit.

[crackattack 520]

add a threat to the life of the mother to that list. By the way,what percent of abortions are performed due to those circumstances?

I would guess it's miniscule.

I don't know and all honesty I really don't care. I was just curious of what was ok and not ok for some people. I really was just curious how others felt.

[crackattack 520]

More than that, Less than whats going on now...

 

It just rubs me the wrong way that people seem justified to give so little respect and acknowledgement of worth because they need that to rationalize the act they are going to commit.

So what then? If you don't mind answering.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

I didn't say people should be able to do anything they want. I didn't present my own view on abortion at all. I said in my experience women who've had an abortion don't regret it or feel like broken people afterward, and this is consistent with the existing research.

 

 

Amazing that your experience includes only women in the 11% who did not have regret. I guess you just surround yourself with happy people.

[crackattack 520]

 

This is the part that everyone should agree on with the implementation of the Affordable Care Act. Everyone, by law, must have health insurance. And the poor now has access to subsidized health insurance.

 

So why again do we need federal funds going to places like Planned Parenthood anymore? That process is now antiquated. It's double booking, its wasteful spending in a time of high debts and gov't deficitits. Forget the social question, with Obamacare its a no brainer from a fiscal / budget / common sense point of view.

That's a very good point. I think your absolutely right about the double booking aspect of it.

[porkbutt 897]

add a threat to the life of the mother to that list. By the way,what percent of abortions are performed due to those circumstances?

I would guess it's miniscule.

baby killers always throw these 3 out there....they are like .00000000000000000000000001% of abortions

[drobeski 3,061]

I don't know and all honesty I really don't care. I was just curious of what was ok and not ok for some people. I really was just curious how others felt.

what are your feelings about the issue and why ?

[DankNuggs 305]

I didn't say people should be able to do anything they want. I didn't present my own view on abortion at all. I said in my experience women who've had an abortion don't regret it or feel like broken people afterward, and this is consistent with the existing research.

 

And for that the pro lifers here have had an utter toddler meltdown.

I think generalizations or one size fits all aren't approriate, but i think denial of any psychological impact across the board under the guise of #science is wrong.

[KSB2424 3,174]

So what then? If you don't mind answering.

 

I don't want to speak for Dank, but for me it means stop being so flippant about it. Stop celebrating it (i.e. the OP). Abortion is a time sensitive decision (something is growing in side of you) so strict deadlines in place. Making kids get parental consent as it is an adult decision. Giving other "choices" like adoption a chance in our soceity. As in societal pushes to promote adoption as opposed to pushing abortion.

 

Things like that.

[MDC 7,899]

Amazing that your experience includes only women in the 11% who did not have regret. I guess you just surround yourself with happy people.

I will try this again:

 

I never said that 89% had regret.

 

I said 88/89% who is feel regret still said they made the right choice.

 

I have no idea what % of women experience regret or what kind.

 

Experiencing momentary regret that you had to have an abortion is not IMO consistent with pro lifers' portrait of broken women years later suffering from clinical depression, drugs use and suicide.

 

I am open to any legitimate studies or facts you want to present, but the literature is fairly clear and I don't get the sense you guys are interested in anything that doesn't support your conclusion.

 

HTH.

[crackattack 520]

what are your feelings about the issue and why ?

I'm not opposed to early term, but probably against late term unless mothers life is in jeopardy. I think unless there's a heartbeat it's just tissue, after that it becomes sketchy. I tend to side with the law. If they outlaw it, then so be it. If it's law, so be it. I'm not a woman, so I don't really care what they do with their body or their choices.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Except for liberal women. I suspect they get pregnant on purpose just so they have an excuse to kill a baby. I bet they have un-birthday parties every year to celebrate the occasion.

The stupid b1tch that made the video in question likely does. However I have come to the conclusion that she is probably mentally ill so that explains her behavior more than anything else IMO.

[crackattack 520]

 

I don't want to speak for Dank, but for me it means stop being so flippant about it. Stop celebrating it (i.e. the OP). Abortion is a time sensitive decision (something is growing in side of you) so strict deadlines in place. Making kids get parental consent as it is an adult decision. Giving other "choices" like adoption a chance in our soceity. As in societal pushes to promote adoption as opposed to pushing abortion.

 

Things like that.

Thanks for answering.

[Googballz 39]

 

I am open to any legitimate studies or facts you want to present, but the literature is fairly clear and I don't get the sense you guys are interested in anything that doesn't support your conclusion.

 

HTH.

I brought some legitimate studies earlier. You just aren't interestedin anything that doesn't support your conclusion.......or the conclusion your pro-abortion link provided......or the conclusion based on a single study of women 1 week after having an abortion.

[DankNuggs 305]

That's a very good point. I think your absolutely right about the double booking aspect of it.

But it isn't double booking it because Obamacare isn't solving the HC issue in reality.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

That's a very good point. I think your absolutely right about the double booking aspect of it.

I don't think he is. Maybe someday but as of now there are still tens of millions of uninsured persons out there.

 

The ACA wasn't going to totally cure the problem overnight. And at the end of the day it is a near-universal coverage program but not completely universal. Millions will fall through the cracks. Which is one of the reasons I would've rather had a single payer system or the like but that's a discussion that's been beat to death.

[IGotWorms 4,063]

I will try this again:

 

I never said that 89% had regret.

 

I said 88/89% who is feel regret still said they made the right choice.

This was immediately apparent from your original post--surprised you had to actually spell it all out for someone. Timmy Smiff must not be too bright

[KSB2424 3,174]

But it isn't double booking it because Obamacare isn't solving the HC issue in reality.

 

So we are wasting money? Whats the focking purpose of all this spending then?

 

Planned Parenthood accepts medicaid. Why can't poor people apply for medicaid? If PP accepts medicaid then why do they need to be funded?

 

So lets break this down. Tax dollars go to help fund Planned Parenthood. Tax Dollars go to help fund medicaid. Tax dollars help to subsizize poor people ACA.

 

But we still need to fund PP as millions of people don't have insurance? And Planned Parenthood has millions of dollars to spare to DONATE to politicians?

 

Its a weaved web of wasteful spending and shenanigans.

[drobeski 3,061]

 

So we are wasting money? Whats the focking purpose of all this spending then?

sheep herding

[MDC 7,899]

I think generalizations or one size fits all aren't approriate, but i think denial of any psychological impact across the board under the guise of #science is wrong.

According to the research there is evidence that the vast majority of women experience no lasting psychological effects after an abortion, and that their mental health post abortion is in line with their mental health pre abortion. Sometimes reality isn't what we want it to be, what can I say?

[crackattack 520]

Is safe to assume then that PP does more then just abortions and should still be funded since obamacare doesn't double book it?

[DankNuggs 305]

 

So we are wasting money? Whats the focking purpose of all this spending then?

 

the purpose is to get control over it.

[Googballz 39]

Bump for MDC.

 

 

 

Yep, no regrets.

 

Further studies on abortion and mental health have found women who have had abortions have:

– 6-7 times higher suicide rate(10)
– Up to 60% have suicidal thoughts(11)
– 154% higher risk of suicide(12)
— Teen girls who had abortions are 10x more likely to commit suicide than those who haven’t(13)
— 65% higher risk of clinical depression. A longitudinal study of American women revealed that those who aborted were 65% more likely to be at risk of long-term clinical depression after controlling for age, race, education, marital status, history of divorce, income, and prior psychiatric state.(14)

 

 

http://clinicquotes.com/women-and-abortion-regret/

 

[Googballz 39]

Another one MDC must have missed.

 

 

Psychological Risks: Traumatic Aftereffects of Abortion

Posted on August 31, 2012 by Tech

Despite the claims of Planned Parenthood and other pro-choice organizations, women who abort are more likely to suffer from emotional problems than women who have not had an abortion.

Suicide

— 6-7 times higher suicide rate. Two national from Finland based on medical records revealed that aborting women were six-seven times more likely to commit suicide in the following year than were delivering women.(1)

— Up to 60% have suicidal thoughts. According to a recent study in a major scientific journal, 31% had thoughts of suicide after abortion. In another survey, approximately 60% of women with post-abortion problems reported suicidal thoughts, with 28% attempting suicide and half of those attempting suicide two or more times.(2)

— 154% higher risk of suicide. Another study of more than 173,000 American women who had abortions or carried to term found that, during the eight years after the pregnancy ended, women who aborted had a 154% higher risk of suicide than women who carried to term.(3)

— Higher suicide risks for teens. Teen girls are 10 times more likely to attempt suicide if they have had an abortion in the last six months than girls who have not had an abortion, and 2-4 times more likely to commit suicide after abortion compared to adult women.(4)

Depression

— 65% higher risk of clinical depression. A longitudinal study of American women revealed that those who aborted were 65% more likely to be at risk of long-term clinical depression after controlling for age, race, education, marital status, history of divorce, income, and prior psychiatric state.(5)

— Depression risk remained high, even when pregnancies were unplanned. Among a national sample of women with unintended first pregnancies, aborting women were at significantly higher risk of long-term clinical depression compared to delivering women.(6)

Trauma

— 65% report symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. In a study of U.S. and Russian women who had abortions, 65% of U.S. women experienced multiple symptoms of PTSD, which they attributed to their abortions. Slightly over 14% reported all the symptoms necessary for a clinical diagnosis of abortion-induced PTSD, and 25% said they did not receive adequate counseling. 64% said they felt pressured by others to abort.(7)

— In the above study, 60% of American women reported that they felt “part of me died” after their abortions.(7)

— Twice as likely to be hospitalized. Compared to women who deliver, women who abort are more than twice as likely to be subsequently hospitalized for psychiatric illness within six months.(8)

— More outpatient psychiatric care. Analysis of California Medicaid records shows that women who have abortions subsequently require significantly more treatments for psychiatric illness through outpatient care. (9)

— Multiple disorders and regrets. A study of post-abortion patients only 8 weeks after their abortions found that 44% reported nervous disorders, 36% experienced sleep disturbances, 31% had regrets about their decision, and 11% had been prescribed psychotropic medicine by their family doctor.(10)

— Generalized anxiety disorder. Among women with no previous history of anxiety, women who aborted a first, unplanned pregnancy were 30% more likely to subsequently report all the symptoms associated with a diagnosis for generalized anxiety disorder, compared to women who carried to term.(11)

— Sleep disorders. In a study of women with no known history of sleep disorders, women were more likely to be treated for sleep disorders after having an abortion compared to giving birth (nearly twice as likely in the first 180 days afterwards). Numerous studies have shown that trauma victims often experience sleep difficulties.(12)

— Disorders not pre-existing. In a New Zealand study, women had higher rates of suicidal behavior, depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and other disorders after abortion. The study found that these were not pre-existing problems.(13)

Eating disorders & substance abuse

— 39% had eating disorders. In a survey of women with post-abortion problems, 39% reported subsequent eating disorders.(14)

— Five-fold higher risk of drug and alcohol abuse. Excluding women with a prior history of substance abuse, those who abort their first pregnancy are 5 times more likely to report subsequent drug and alcohol abuse vs. those who give birth.(15)

— Substance abuse during subsequent pregnancies. Among women giving birth for the first time, women with a history of abortion are five times more likely to use drugs, twice as likely to use alcohol, and ten times more likely to use marijuana during their pregnancy, compared to women who have not had an abortion.(16)

— Alcohol abuse linked to other problems. Alcohol abuse after abortion has been linked to violent behavior, divorce or separation, auto accidents, and job loss.(17)

Coercion, guilt, repressed grief

— Coerced to violate their beliefs, values and conscience. The “decision” to abort is often based on the demands or threats of others – even when it violates the woman’s own moral beliefs and desire to keep the baby.(18) This is a known risk factor for psychological complications after abortion.(19)

— 64% of abortions involve coercion. A recent study of women who had abortions found that 64% of American women reported that they felt pressured by others to abort.(7)

— Common negative reactions. In a survey of women reporting post-abortion problems, 80% experienced guilt, 83% regret, 79% loss, 62% anger and 70% depression.(2)

— Forbidden grief. After abortion, societal expectation, personal shame and public and professional denial result in repressed grief, causing serious problems including clinical depression, eating disorders, self-destructive lifestyles and suicide.(20)

Divorce and chronic relationship problems

— Women with a history of abortion are significantly more likely to subsequently have shorter relationships and more divorces. This may be due to lowered self-esteem, greater distrust of males, sexual dysfunction, substance abuse, and increased levels of depression, anxiety, and volatile anger.(21)

— More poverty and single parenthood after repeat abortions. Women who have more than one abortion (nearly half of those seeking abortions each year)(22) are more likely to become single parents and to require public assistance.(23)

— 30-50% of post-abortive women report experiencing sexual dysfunctions such as promiscuity, loss of pleasure from intercourse, increased pain, and aversion to sex and/or men.(23)

http://clinicquotes.com/psychological-risks-traumatic-aftereffects-of-abortion/

 

[IGotWorms 4,063]

Is safe to assume then that PP does more then just abortions and should still be funded since obamacare doesn't double book it?

I think it's been said before that abortions account for something like 3% of planned parenthood's operations. Don't know if that's true but I recall it being thrown out there the last time the righties worked themselves into a big ol' tizzy over PP.

[KSB2424 3,174]

Is safe to assume then that PP does more then just abortions and should still be funded since obamacare doesn't double book it?

 

Yes they do more, they do all sorts of womens health stuff. Stuff your private doctor could do that you pay for with your subsidized Obmacare insurance.

 

I'm not saying Planned Parenthood is "bad". But they should live and die on their own accounts. Hell I don't even care if they are tax exempt like other "charities". But we can stop with that title X or whatever it is where tax monies are given to them.

[Mike Honcho 5,439]

I brought some legitimate studies earlier. You just aren't interestedin anything that doesn't support your conclusion.......or the conclusion your pro-abortion link provided......or the conclusion based on a single study of women 1 week after having an abortion.

 

 

Priscilla Coleman is a US academic with a history of publishing flawed articles which purport to demonstrate a causative effect between abortion and mental illness. A study she published in 2009 has now been thoroughly discredited – even the editor of the journal has agreed the methodology was flawed and Coleman’s conclusions are invalid. Read about it here:

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2012/03/05/index.html

 

Coleman also published a more recent article in the British Journal of Psychiatry, the abstract of which you can read here:

http://bjp.rcpsych.org/content/199/3/180.abstract

 

This was quickly discredited by a group from King’s College London. You can read their assessment of the scientific rigor of Coleman’s analysis in a separate post above.

Coleman will be presenting her completely discredited findings at an anti-abortion meeting in London this week.

 

 

Priscilla Coleman’s fraudulent scholarship

 

Fatal flaws in a recent meta-analysis on abortion and mental health

 

STUDY PURPORTING TO SHOW LINK BETWEEN ABORTION AND MENTAL HEALTH OUTCOMES DECISIVELY DEBUNKED

 

Can't find a review of her earlier study, but your "legitimate studies" author doesn't have much of a reputation. If that's an example of the studies you are bringing to the thread, no point in really talking about them, is there?

[Googballz 39]

 

 

Priscilla Coleman’s fraudulent scholarship

 

Fatal flaws in a recent meta-analysis on abortion and mental health

 

STUDY PURPORTING TO SHOW LINK BETWEEN ABORTION AND MENTAL HEALTH OUTCOMES DECISIVELY DEBUNKED

 

Can't find a review of her earlier study, but your "legitimate studies" author doesn't have much of a reputation.

Your sources:

 

 

Doctors for a Woman's Choice on Abortion

 

guttmacher.org is a pro-abortion outfit.

[KSB2424 3,174]

I posted this earlier to no avail.

 

The topic of mental health and abortions is a controversy not fully understood. You can find different findings of studies all over the internet. So yes, MDC can prodcue one study or finding and RP can produce another saying something different. Thus the controversy.

 

So can we please stop with the "link" war.

[Frank M 181]

This was immediately apparent from your original post--surprised you had to actually spell it all out for someone. Timmy Smiff must not be too bright

 

I actually said the same thing. He missed it twice.

[MDC 7,899]

I posted this earlier to no avail.

 

The topic of mental health and abortions is a controversy not fully understood. You can find different findings of studies all over the internet. So yes, MDC can prodcue one study or finding and RP can produce another saying something different. Thus the controversy.

 

So can we please stop with the "link" war.

The differences are:

 

1. My link was a review of the research by the American Psychological Association. RP's was to a review by a pro life organization.

 

2. RP's source is making the claim that women who've had abortions experience depression, suicide, drug use etc at higher rates. The APA is merely saying there is no evidence to support that claim.

 

[Mike Honcho 5,439]

Link to how he cherry picked?

 

Major fail going after the source and not the facts.

 

ETA: How about a non Roy Spencer link showing 73 out of 73 UN models wrong......all too high.

 

http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/barbara-hollingsworth/climate-scientist-73-un-climate-models-wrong-no-global-warming-17

 

 

Your sources:

 

 

 

 

You couldn't be a bigger hypocrite if you tried...funny, you neglected to list the National Institute of Health as one of my sources also.

[Mike Honcho 5,439]

I posted this earlier to no avail.

 

The topic of mental health and abortions is a controversy not fully understood. You can find different findings of studies all over the internet. So yes, MDC can prodcue one study or finding and RP can produce another saying something different. Thus the controversy.

 

So can we please stop with the "link" war.

 

yeah...we should all agree that it's not understood, because one side brings links to discredited studies. We should consider them all equal.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

I have no idea what % of women experience regret or what kind.

 

 

Well from your own link, at least 64% felt sadness, guilt or regret. Perhaps you should have scrolled down.

[drobeski 3,061]

What were the feelings of the babies killed ?

[Googballz 39]

The differences are:

 

1. My link was a review of the research by the American Psychological Association. RP's was to a review by a pro life organization.

 

2. RP's source is making the claim that women who've had abortions experience depression, suicide, drug use etc at higher rates. The APA is merely saying there is no evidence to support that claim.

 

RP.

 

It is always obvious when I have you on the run......resort to the alias fall back.

 

1. Your link made no mention of the studies I linked. Your link also said multiple abortions resulted in negative long term issues. And my sources had dozens of citations from sources like Planned Parenthood and Feminist organizations, as well as medical associations on par with your APA. Hardly "pro-life" organizations.

 

2. The sources cite several studies that show long term negative affects. Your APA link doesn't address my links.

[Googballz 39]

 

yeah...we should all agree that it's not understood, because one side brings links to discredited studies. We should consider them all equal.

Leave MDC alone. At least he is trying.

[MDC 7,899]

Well from your own link, at least 64% felt sadness, guilt or regret. Perhaps you should have scrolled down.

I thought it was 88% like you repeated twice.

[Googballz 39]

Well from your own link, at least 64% felt sadness, guilt or regret. Perhaps you should have scrolled down.

That means nothing. All of MDC's abortion friends loved it.