For those of you who support a woman's right to choose

[porkbutt 897]

It's true.

yeah well i know 5-6 women who feel the opposite.

[KSB2424 3,173]

For someone to feel guilty, they'd have top assume they were causing pain to someone or doing something wrong. As a pro-lifer, obviously you think they should feel guilty. If a woman is pro-choice, she doesn't believe the embryo is an actual person yet and has no reason to feel guilty. You're trying to force your beliefs on other people.

 

I'm pro choice. I am just not pro-abortion.

 

I'm okay with Women having abortion as 1 of many options and done so in a timely manner. With that said the one thing that turns me off is how flippant we've become about abortion. Just like this story. It should be a hard decision, we can try and justify it all we want by saying its not real baby etc, but the bottom line is you are terminating a pregnacy that has been created. And that should be a serious decision. And 9 times out of 10 it could've been prevented. Which was careless. When I'm careless and something serious happens I didn't want, I feel guilty about it as I know I should've been more careful. Common focking sense.

[TimmySmith 2,783]

For someone to feel guilty, they'd have top assume they were causing pain to someone or doing something wrong. As a pro-lifer, obviously you think they should feel guilty. If a woman is pro-choice, she doesn't believe the embryo is an actual person yet and has no reason to feel guilty. You're trying to force your beliefs on other people.

Right because there is very little physiology and psychology that actually links women to bearing children.

[MDC 7,887]

yeah well i know 5-6 women who feel the opposite.

I doubt you know 5-6 women period.

[Frank M 181]

 

I agree with you to a point, but I don't think it's that black & white.

 

A woman can be pro-choice and still feel guilty about an abortion. I think a lot of people fall into the category of not wanting to restrict a woman's rights while still feeling like abortion is morally wrong.

 

Or a woman can feel guilt while still believing that she's making the right choice by getting an abortion.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

 

Or a woman can feel guilt while still believing that she's making the right choice by getting an abortion.

 

I think we're kind of saying the same thing. I don't think someone would feel guilt if they didn't think they were doing something wrong, even if they believe they are making the right choice.

[KSB2424 3,173]

Forget abortion, people don't take ownership of their actions anymore. We just don't. It's always somebody elses fault, we justify it in our heads as so.

 

And same thing here. 9 times out of 10 unwanted pregnancies could be prevented. And when people are careless and it happens people should focking own it. You were careless and you should feel guilty for doing so. By feeling guilty is says to me you are actually taking ownership of your actions and will probably not let it happen again (getting another abortion).

[TimmySmith 2,783]

 

I think we're kind of saying the same thing. I don't think someone would feel guilt if they didn't think they were doing something wrong, even if they believe they are making the right choice.

"Wrong" is a bad word for some here. Better to just say that it goes against their innate purpose.

[rholio 339]

 

I'm pro choice. I am just not pro-abortion.

 

I'm okay with Women having abortion as 1 of many options and done so in a timely manner. With that said the one thing that turns me off is how flippant we've become about abortion. Just like this story. It should be a hard decision, we can try and justify it all we want by saying its not real baby etc, but the bottom line is you are terminating a pregnacy that has been created. And that should be a serious decision. And 9 times out of 10 it could've been prevented. Which was careless. When I'm careless and something serious happens I didn't want, I feel guilty about it as I know I should've been more careful. Common focking sense.

 

Nailed it.

[drobeski 3,061]

How many abortions have been performed in the last, say...20 years? Now what percentage of them were given to low income women? Are you refuting that a very high percentage of them would have been on welfare? Or ended up juvies and/or criminals? There's no denying it, a kid who isn't wanted is a drain on society.

genocidal racism right here folks

[BunnysBastatrds 2,598]

The approach seems tacky to me, especially the part about grabbing the sonogram first and comparing the abortion to a birthing experience.

 

I think if you're going to do this kind of thing you need to think very carefully about the way the info is presented. It sounds to me like this woman is immature and a bit of an attention ######, and definitely not the person you want representing this POV.

 

Overall the idea is valid though IMO. There is a lot of misinformation out there and presenting a realistic view is a good way to counterbalance. I think this would be better as a documentary approach though where the woman either remains anonymous / pixelated and she is not also the documentarian.

 

Finally, the idea thy women who have abortions are or should feel guilty forever is a laugh. I've met dozens of women who have had abortions and not one if them expressed remorse or regret it at all. So yeah: the guilt is a social construct.

 

I suspect you guys who think women should let this haunt them forever are in denial and the people in your life just don't tell you.

 

 

They're lying if they say their not feeling some guilt. You think they leave the clinic and are ready to enjoy the rest of the day? Or are they remebering they just had a vacum cleaner stuck up thier snatch and and ended what would have been a baby they could care less about?

[jerryskids 7,085]

 

Nailed it.

Agreed, except I wouldn't call myself pro-choice. He makes an interesting distinction though which I'll need to mull over.

[smashmouths@blf 33]

There's a reason these women feel guilty and no it's not society's fault. They have chosen to end the life of their very own child. Sad.

[NewbieJr 541]

genocidal racism right here folks

Genocide: noun \ˈjen-ə-ˌsīd\

Deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, religious, political, or ethnic group.

 

Which of those groups do low income, unwanted babies fall under?

[BunnysBastatrds 2,598]

Correct. Not to mention the added strain on the welfare system in a lot of cases. And crime rates if all these unwanted/unloved kids hit the streets.

 

Women having abortions are doing us all a favor.

 

 

 

 

For someone to feel guilty, they'd have top assume they were causing pain to someone or doing something wrong. As a pro-lifer, obviously you think they should feel guilty. If a woman is pro-choice, she doesn't believe the embryo is an actual person yet and has no reason to feel guilty. You're trying to force your beliefs on other people.

 

 

She knows the embryo will grow into an actual person if she doesn't exterminate it. That's where the guilt lies. Any woman who doesn't understand they just eliminated a life and feels no guilt is no dfifferent than a woman who could drown her kids in a bath tub.

[Brad GLuckman 519]

Genocide: noun \ˈjen-ə-ˌsīd\

Deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, religious, political, or ethnic group.

 

Which of those groups do low income, unwanted babies fall under?

 

 

 

http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/2012/tables/12s0697.pdf

[porkbutt 897]

Genocide: noun \ˈjen-ə-ˌsīd\

Deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, religious, political, or ethnic group.

 

Which of those groups do low income, unwanted babies fall under?

who are you to judge who's a drain on society? that focking logic is crazy to me. abortion is okay because the kid would be a drain on society. how do you know? maybe he grows up to cure focking cancer. maybe middle class whitey on fftoday message board all day every day is a drain on society.

[NewbieJr 541]

 

 

 

 

 

 

She knows the embryo will grow into an actual person if she doesn't exterminate it. That's where the guilt lies. Any woman who doesn't understand they just eliminated a life and feels no guilt is no dfifferent than a woman who could drown her kids in a bath tub.

:lol:

 

Yeah, and having a miscarriage is no different than having your toddler get murdered.

[porkbutt 897]

who are you to judge who's a drain on society? that focking logic is crazy to me. abortion is okay because the kid would be a drain on society. how do you know? maybe he grows up to cure focking cancer. maybe middle class whitey on fftoday message board all day every day is a drain on society.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

She knows the embryo will grow into an actual person if she doesn't exterminate it. That's where the guilt lies. Any woman who doesn't understand they just eliminated a life and feels no guilt is no dfifferent than a woman who could drown her kids in a bath tub.

[Frozenbeernuts 2,332]

Forget abortion, people don't take ownership of their actions anymore. We just don't. It's always somebody elses fault, we justify it in our heads as so.

 

And same thing here. 9 times out of 10 unwanted pregnancies could be prevented. And when people are careless and it happens people should focking own it. You were careless and you should feel guilty for doing so. By feeling guilty is says to me you are actually taking ownership of your actions and will probably not let it happen again (getting another abortion).

I know a chick who has had at least 4 abortions, and that number has probably gone up since she told me that about 6 years ago.

[Googballz 39]

Yep, no regrets.

 

Further studies on abortion and mental health have found women who have had abortions have:

– 6-7 times higher suicide rate(10)
– Up to 60% have suicidal thoughts(11)
– 154% higher risk of suicide(12)
— Teen girls who had abortions are 10x more likely to commit suicide than those who haven’t(13)
— 65% higher risk of clinical depression. A longitudinal study of American women revealed that those who aborted were 65% more likely to be at risk of long-term clinical depression after controlling for age, race, education, marital status, history of divorce, income, and prior psychiatric state.(14)

 

http://clinicquotes.com/women-and-abortion-regret/

[NewbieJr 541]

who are you to judge who's a drain on society? that focking logic is crazy to me. abortion is okay because the kid would be a drain on society. how do you know? maybe he grows up to cure focking cancer. maybe middle class whitey on fftoday message board all day every day is a drain on society.

It's all about percentages, Slim. Think about it. Look up the numbers. What sector of the country is responsible for the most abortions. It's all there for you. I believe phurfur posted a link a few weeks back. Hundreds of thousands of unwanted little criminals running around.

[porkbutt 897]

 

Yep, no regrets.

 

http://clinicquotes.com/women-and-abortion-regret/

 

i was going to post something similar...but i thought this was all common sense

[KSB2424 3,173]

Just spitballing but I often wondered the biological, sensory changes that come with an abortion. For instance, I learned while studying up on my wife and I having a baby, that the "pregnancy glow" that people say of a pregnant woman is actually a real thing. The human body is a crazy organism. The woman’s brain releases extra serotonin to the body to make her feel good, to help compensate for the body taking on those additional physical pressures of carrying a baby. The brain is sending out "feel good" signals to help out. Fascinating really.

 

And when the woman gives birth that extra serotonin automatically shuts off. Which actually causes a form of withdrawal for the woman. It’s why they sometimes have the "baby blues" for a week or so after giving birth, which in some women leads to things like full on post-partum depression.

 

I often wondered if something similar happens with an abortion, especially those in the 3 and 4 month range where the body and more specifically the brain has sort of turned on those internal switches. Maybe that’s the internal "guilt" they have, just a more depressing form of post partum. But completely natural, as opposed to due to some stigma society places.

[porkbutt 897]

It's all about percentages, Slim. Think about it. Look up the numbers. What sector of the country is responsible for the most abortions. It's all there for you. I believe phurfur posted a link a few weeks back. Hundreds of thousands of unwanted little criminals running around.

wow. maybe we should just have a panel of judges that decides who gets bornorated.

[Googballz 39]

Just spitballing but I often wondered the biological, sensory changes that come with an abortion. For instance, I learned while studying up on having a baby, that the "pregnancy glow" that people say of a pregnant woman is actually a real thing. The human body is a crazy organism. The woman’s brain releases extra serotonin the body to make her feel good, to help compensate for the body taking on that additional pressures of carrying a baby. The brain is sending out "feel good" signals to help out. Fascinating really.

 

And when the woman gives birth that extra serotonin automatically shuts off. Which actually causes a form of withdrawal for the woman. It’s why they sometimes have the "baby blues" for a week or so after giving birth, which in some women leads to things like full on post-partum depression.

 

I often wondered if something similar happens with an abortion, especially those in the 3 and 4 month range where the body and more specifically the brain has sort of turned on those internal switches. Maybe that’s the internal "guilt" they have, just a more depressing form of post partum. But completely natural, as opposed to due to some stigma society places.

Psychological Risks: Traumatic Aftereffects of Abortion

Posted on August 31, 2012 by Tech

Despite the claims of Planned Parenthood and other pro-choice organizations, women who abort are more likely to suffer from emotional problems than women who have not had an abortion.

Suicide

— 6-7 times higher suicide rate. Two national from Finland based on medical records revealed that aborting women were six-seven times more likely to commit suicide in the following year than were delivering women.(1)

— Up to 60% have suicidal thoughts. According to a recent study in a major scientific journal, 31% had thoughts of suicide after abortion. In another survey, approximately 60% of women with post-abortion problems reported suicidal thoughts, with 28% attempting suicide and half of those attempting suicide two or more times.(2)

— 154% higher risk of suicide. Another study of more than 173,000 American women who had abortions or carried to term found that, during the eight years after the pregnancy ended, women who aborted had a 154% higher risk of suicide than women who carried to term.(3)

— Higher suicide risks for teens. Teen girls are 10 times more likely to attempt suicide if they have had an abortion in the last six months than girls who have not had an abortion, and 2-4 times more likely to commit suicide after abortion compared to adult women.(4)

Depression

— 65% higher risk of clinical depression. A longitudinal study of American women revealed that those who aborted were 65% more likely to be at risk of long-term clinical depression after controlling for age, race, education, marital status, history of divorce, income, and prior psychiatric state.(5)

— Depression risk remained high, even when pregnancies were unplanned. Among a national sample of women with unintended first pregnancies, aborting women were at significantly higher risk of long-term clinical depression compared to delivering women.(6)

Trauma

— 65% report symptoms of post-traumatic stress disorder. In a study of U.S. and Russian women who had abortions, 65% of U.S. women experienced multiple symptoms of PTSD, which they attributed to their abortions. Slightly over 14% reported all the symptoms necessary for a clinical diagnosis of abortion-induced PTSD, and 25% said they did not receive adequate counseling. 64% said they felt pressured by others to abort.(7)

— In the above study, 60% of American women reported that they felt “part of me died” after their abortions.(7)

— Twice as likely to be hospitalized. Compared to women who deliver, women who abort are more than twice as likely to be subsequently hospitalized for psychiatric illness within six months.(8)

— More outpatient psychiatric care. Analysis of California Medicaid records shows that women who have abortions subsequently require significantly more treatments for psychiatric illness through outpatient care. (9)

— Multiple disorders and regrets. A study of post-abortion patients only 8 weeks after their abortions found that 44% reported nervous disorders, 36% experienced sleep disturbances, 31% had regrets about their decision, and 11% had been prescribed psychotropic medicine by their family doctor.(10)

— Generalized anxiety disorder. Among women with no previous history of anxiety, women who aborted a first, unplanned pregnancy were 30% more likely to subsequently report all the symptoms associated with a diagnosis for generalized anxiety disorder, compared to women who carried to term.(11)

— Sleep disorders. In a study of women with no known history of sleep disorders, women were more likely to be treated for sleep disorders after having an abortion compared to giving birth (nearly twice as likely in the first 180 days afterwards). Numerous studies have shown that trauma victims often experience sleep difficulties.(12)

— Disorders not pre-existing. In a New Zealand study, women had higher rates of suicidal behavior, depression, anxiety, substance abuse, and other disorders after abortion. The study found that these were not pre-existing problems.(13)

Eating disorders & substance abuse

— 39% had eating disorders. In a survey of women with post-abortion problems, 39% reported subsequent eating disorders.(14)

— Five-fold higher risk of drug and alcohol abuse. Excluding women with a prior history of substance abuse, those who abort their first pregnancy are 5 times more likely to report subsequent drug and alcohol abuse vs. those who give birth.(15)

— Substance abuse during subsequent pregnancies. Among women giving birth for the first time, women with a history of abortion are five times more likely to use drugs, twice as likely to use alcohol, and ten times more likely to use marijuana during their pregnancy, compared to women who have not had an abortion.(16)

— Alcohol abuse linked to other problems. Alcohol abuse after abortion has been linked to violent behavior, divorce or separation, auto accidents, and job loss.(17)

Coercion, guilt, repressed grief

— Coerced to violate their beliefs, values and conscience. The “decision” to abort is often based on the demands or threats of others – even when it violates the woman’s own moral beliefs and desire to keep the baby.(18) This is a known risk factor for psychological complications after abortion.(19)

— 64% of abortions involve coercion. A recent study of women who had abortions found that 64% of American women reported that they felt pressured by others to abort.(7)

— Common negative reactions. In a survey of women reporting post-abortion problems, 80% experienced guilt, 83% regret, 79% loss, 62% anger and 70% depression.(2)

— Forbidden grief. After abortion, societal expectation, personal shame and public and professional denial result in repressed grief, causing serious problems including clinical depression, eating disorders, self-destructive lifestyles and suicide.(20)

Divorce and chronic relationship problems

— Women with a history of abortion are significantly more likely to subsequently have shorter relationships and more divorces. This may be due to lowered self-esteem, greater distrust of males, sexual dysfunction, substance abuse, and increased levels of depression, anxiety, and volatile anger.(21)

— More poverty and single parenthood after repeat abortions. Women who have more than one abortion (nearly half of those seeking abortions each year)(22) are more likely to become single parents and to require public assistance.(23)

— 30-50% of post-abortive women report experiencing sexual dysfunctions such as promiscuity, loss of pleasure from intercourse, increased pain, and aversion to sex and/or men.(23)

http://clinicquotes.com/psychological-risks-traumatic-aftereffects-of-abortion/

[porkbutt 897]

Just spitballing but I often wondered the biological, sensory changes that come with an abortion. For instance, I learned while studying up on having a baby, that the "pregnancy glow" that people say of a pregnant woman is actually a real thing. The human body is a crazy organism. The woman’s brain releases extra serotonin the body to make her feel good, to help compensate for the body taking on that additional pressures of carrying a baby. The brain is sending out "feel good" signals to help out. Fascinating really.

 

And when the woman gives birth that extra serotonin automatically shuts off. Which actually causes a form of withdrawal for the woman. It’s why they sometimes have the "baby blues" for a week or so after giving birth, which in some women leads to things like full on post-partum depression.

 

I often wondered if something similar happens with an abortion, especially those in the 3 and 4 month range where the body and more specifically the brain has sort of turned on those internal switches. Maybe that’s the internal "guilt" they have, just a more depressing form of post partum. But completely natural, as opposed to due to some stigma society places.

nope. it's all society's and "prolifers" fault. they place the guilt on these poor women

[NewbieJr 541]

wow. maybe we should just have a panel of judges that decides who gets bornorated.

It's still the mother's choice. The fact that the abortions are unwanted babies is the key point. A low income mother who wants to have and raise the child is fine and dandy in my book. Any questions?

[BunnysBastatrds 2,598]

:lol:

 

Yeah, and having a miscarriage is no different than having your toddler get murdered.

 

 

They pro choice argument that destroying the embryo is just the elimination of a group of cells is so disengiuous. It's the only way a woman can have an abortion without them feeling like they mudrered they unborn child. Which they did. Just admit it and go on. You get an abortion, you killed your child. You don't get an abortion, your cells live to write stoopid storys on a lightly traffiked fantasy football message bored. Mt birth mother couldn't have an abortion. It wasn'yt legal. So she put me up for adoption. She wanted an abortion though. Aren't you glad she didn't have a vacum cleaner stuck up her puss to suck those worthless cells that eventually all came together and formed yours truly?

[MDC 7,887]

 

 

They're lying if they say their not feeling some guilt. You think they leave the clinic and are ready to enjoy the rest of the day? Or are they remebering they just had a vacum cleaner stuck up thier snatch and and ended what would have been a baby they could care less about?

Well I think they may experience momentary regret that they put themselves in a situation to have to get an abortion and all the accompanying physical discomfort etc that goes with it. But I don't think they regret the decision or are haunted by guilt over it etc. I'm talking about the majority of women who've had abortions, there are always exceptions. I've just never met anyone who was like, "I really wish I hadn't aborted that kid I couldn't afford / didn't want and became a single mom or married that guy I didn't love."

[NewbieJr 541]

 

 

They pro choice argument that destroying the embryo is just the elimination of a group of cells is so disengiuous. It's the only way a woman can have an abortion without them feeling like they mudrered they unborn child. Which they did. Just admit it and go on. You get an abortion, you killed your child. You don't get an abortion, your cells live to write stoopid storys on a lightly traffiked fantasy football message bored. Mt birth mother couldn't have an abortion. It wasn'yt legal. So she put me up for adoption. She wanted an abortion though. Aren't you glad she didn't have a vacum cleaner stuck up her puss to suck those worthless cells that eventually all came together and formed yours truly?

You may have just turned me into a pro-lifer.

[wiffleball 4,797]

it takes a three hours to pick out her shoes but yeah she should be making life or death decisions

[KSB2424 3,173]

Well I think they may experience momentary regret that they put themselves in a situation to have to get an abortion and all the accompanying physical discomfort etc that goes with it. But I don't think they regret the decision or are haunted by guilt over it etc. I'm talking about the majority of women who've had abortions, there are always exceptions. I've just never met anyone who was like, "I really wish I hadn't aborted that kid I couldn't afford / didn't want and became a single mom or married that guy I didn't love."

 

I think you're mixing and matching regret with guilt. Using them interchangably in the thread.

 

I would think a very very high percentage of women feel guilty (or focking should if not) for having put themselves in postition to even have to make a choice.

 

Thats wholly different than making that tough choice and not regretting the decision.

[BunnysBastatrds 2,598]

Well I think they may experience momentary regret that they put themselves in a situation to have to get an abortion and all the accompanying physical discomfort etc that goes with it. But I don't think they regret the decision or are haunted by guilt over it etc. I'm talking about the majority of women who've had abortions, there are always exceptions. I've just never met anyone who was like, "I really wish I hadn't aborted that kid I couldn't afford / didn't want and became a single mom or married that guy I didn't love."

 

 

Or maybe they feel guilt that they had to make that decision because they couldn't afford the child and couldn't be a single mom.

[Googballz 39]

Well I think they may experience momentary regret that they put themselves in a situation to have to get an abortion and all the accompanying physical discomfort etc that goes with it. But I don't think they regret the decision or are haunted by guilt over it etc. I'm talking about the majority of women who've had abortions, there are always exceptions. I've just never met anyone who was like, "I really wish I hadn't aborted that kid I couldn't afford / didn't want and became a single mom or married that guy I didn't love."

Apparently, you didn't bother to read the links I brought to studies that document a whole host of negative long-term affects of having an abortion.

 

I guess that makes your position easier to defend........ya know, you knowing dozens a couple of women who told you they don't regret having an abortion.

[NewbieJr 541]

Apparently, you didn't bother to read the links I brought to studies that document a whole host of negative long-term affects of having an abortion.

 

I guess that makes your position easier to defend........ya know, you knowing dozens a couple of women who told you they don't regret having an abortion.

Psssst, itsatip that no one reads your slanted, hack links. You're a joke.

[MDC 7,887]

 

I think you're mixing and matching regret with guilt. Using them interchangably in the thread.

 

I would think a very very high percentage of women feel guilty (or focking should if not) for having put themselves in postition to even have to make a choice.

 

Thats wholly different than making that tough choice and not regretting the decision.

You're splitting hairs. What I'm saying is the vast majority of women don't regret having an abortion and don't experience any long term sadness about it at all. I'm basing that on my own limited experience but it's consistent with info I've seen that has not been cherry picked from Pro Life websites to fit an agenda.

 

[Googballz 39]

Psssst, itsatip that no one reads your slanted, hack links. You're a joke.

Did you notice all the numbers in parenthesis after the claims they made? Those are called citations of their source material. My link had 23 of them.

 

Feel free to show us all how those 23 sources are slanted and made up the results of their studies, kid.

 

Or just continue to expose yourself as an immature idiot who isn't interested in actual facts.

 

ETA: Here is one of the sources:

 

2. “Ask Dr Cullins” Planned Parenthood’s Website, updated 7/25/07 at http://ppmnj.com/health-topics/ask-dr-cullins/ask-dr-cullins-abortion-5519.htm

 

 

Your turn to claim Planned Parenthood is a right-wing hack outfit.

[crackattack 520]

Why should someone feel sad for removing a clump of cells? And why do people care how someone else feels? IIt's a legal medical procedure.

[drobeski 3,061]

Why should someone feel sad for removing a clump of cells? And why do people care how someone else feels? IIt's a legal medical procedure.

so is capital punishment, yet plenty of crazy focks feel bad for them that's just a clump of cells which raped and or murdered