Union trying to get in to my plant

[Big Blue 06 195]

Some Union (a small one, only about 18,000 members) is trying to get into my plant. Some of our employees went to the union, and they filed a petition with the national labor board. Long story short, we've had lawyers, persuaders, regional VPs and other head honchos in the last two weeks and there is a vote this Thursday. After taking out temps, office clerical workers and management, only 14 people are voting; the Union needs 8 yes votes to get in.

 

As part of management, obviously I'm hoping that te vote goes against Union, but it's looking like it's going to be close.

 

Anyone have any experience with unions, on either side? What can we expect if this goes through (I know about the collective bargaining process and all of that). Any thoughts or advice

 

TIA and I'll answer yours.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

18000 members is not small. My local has around 7k. I guess as a whole if we count all union pipefitters its a lot more, but they all have different local numbers.

 

As management i underatand the desire for less union workers. If your work does unionize its not going to make managements job easier. It all depends on the union really. I was a union employee working for Jewel Osco (grocery store) as a cashier, bagger, and stocker. It really didnt mean much to me at the time as i had no idea what i gained from the membership. The workers probably make a few bucks more than Wal Mart i assume.

 

Then there is the UAW which pretty much gave all unions a bad rap. They seriously were lazy . When us pipefitters would come to the Ford plant for a shutdown, where they actually shut down the plant so we can work on the piping systems, it was in the UAWs contract thst they got to come in and sit around while we worked for the same hours. If we were working 12 hour shifts, they got 12 hour shifts, even if it wasnt a normal shift for them.

 

Then there are trade unions. All of the ones in the Chicago area are hard working. Non union is encroaching on our work constantly so if we want to sit around and be lazy pieces of shlt, well we will lose all of our work.

 

Its really impossible to tell what impact a union will have on your line of work. What is your line of work and which aspect is being unionized? Ultimately unions do give workers more protection against their companies.

[Strike 3,979]

Woo Hoo!!! No one gets fired anymore at Big Blues plant!!!

[Big Blue 06 195]

18000 members is not small. My local has around 7k. I guess as a whole if we count all union pipefitters its a lot more, but they all have different local numbers.

 

As management i underatand the desire for less union workers. If your work does unionize its not going to make managements job easier. It all depends on the union really. I was a union employee working for Jewel Osco (grocery store) as a cashier, bagger, and stocker. It really didnt mean much to me at the time as i had no idea what i gained from the membership. The workers probably make a few bucks more than Wal Mart i assume.

 

Then there is the UAW which pretty much gave all unions a bad rap. They seriously were lazy ######. When us pipefitters would come to the Ford plant for a shutdown, where they actually shut down the plant so we can work on the piping systems, it was in the UAWs contract thst they got to come in and sit around while we worked for the same hours. If we were working 12 hour shifts, they got 12 hour shifts, even if it wasnt a normal shift for them.

 

Then there are trade unions. All of the ones in the Chicago area are hard working. Non union is encroaching on our work constantly so if we want to sit around and be lazy pieces of shlt, well we will lose all of our work.

 

Its really impossible to tell what impact a union will have on your line of work. What is your line of work and which aspect is being unionized? Ultimately unions do give workers more protection against their companies.

I work in the auto parts industry, as a core supplier (we sell used auto parts to rebuilders). The aspect of the building that would be getting unionized is the warehouse workers (includes many different groups, such as material check-in, order pullers, forklift drivers, etc). I guess 18,000 isn't that small, but the lawyer, the rest of management and I were comparing it to some other unions that the lawyer has dealt with. Oddly enough, the union trying to get in is the chemical workers and commercial food Union, which has nothing to do with us. From what I've been told, it's not that uncommon.

 

As far as giving the workers protection, they already have tons of that in place. It is nearly impossible for someone to get terminated anymore. They need to be written up 3 times, given a verbal warning, a written warning, an unpaid suspension and then they can be fired.

[Mungwater 588]

Just tell them that a union doesn't automatically mean better wages.

 

If they want to change the schedule, they'll have to take it to the union.

 

Unions are costly in their pockets.

 

theyre an antiquated idea, necessary back in the day, but it's all just a sham

[Big Blue 06 195]

Just tell them that a union doesn't automatically mean better wages.

 

If they want to change the schedule, they'll have to take it to the union.

 

Unions are costly in their pockets.

 

theyre an antiquated idea, necessary back in the day, but it's all just a sham

We've been doing little else than telling them this for the past two week. Some of them have buried their heads in the sand and want change simply for the sake of change. It's infuriating, and legally, our hands are tied with some of the things that we can't tell them. For example, there is a strong possibility that if a union gets in, it could cause the company to move our products to another location and close our plant. How will that union help them when we're all out on our asses?

[Mungwater 588]

We've been doing little else than telling them this for the past two week. Some of them have buried their heads in the sand and want change simply for the sake of change. It's infuriating, and legally, our hands are tied with some of the things that we can't tell them. For example, there is a strong possibility that if a union gets in, it could cause the company to move our products to another location and close our plant. How will that union help them when we're all out on our asses?

I don't think you can tell them that, but hopefully common sense will kick in

 

ETA: the union won't care, they collected their dues

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

http://www.constructiondive.com/news/construction-unions-headed-for-extinction-or-poised-for-a-resurgence/416545/#.Vv5FUmdNlhE.facebook

 

Trade unions are different, especially since we work in such dangerous environments. Also, taking the same workers who were non union and making them union isnt going to solve many issues that are related to productivity or safety. Of course a company doesnt want workers to have as many rights. Its the way of management. You may not be callous toward their well being, but you also dont want them to have as strong of a voice to stand up for what they see as "right".

[drobeski 3,061]

At my old job the same situation happened. A few ass fock selfish dirt bag electricians convinced all the mechanical guys they were miserable and management was focking them and the only way to fix was to unionize. Long story short those few dirtbags left ASAP and the mechanical guys voted out the Union a year later after losing 4 hours pay a week and all kinds of benefits. Bottom line ...going Union focked them big time and dirtbag Union shitbags left them high and dry.

 

 

Don't do it

[wiffleball 4,645]

My brotherWas in a union For 20 years. He paid them a lot more than they ever did for him. They were f****** worthless.They lost every negotiation they ever entered into. Meanwhile, my brother Just kept handing them buckets of money. The only people who benefit from unions are union reps And Union presidents.

[Mungwater 588]

http://www.constructiondive.com/news/construction-unions-headed-for-extinction-or-poised-for-a-resurgence/416545/#.Vv5FUmdNlhE.facebook

 

Trade unions are different, especially since we work in such dangerous environments. Also, taking the same workers who were non union and making them union isnt going to solve many issues that are related to productivity or safety. Of course a company doesnt want workers to have as many rights. Its the way of management. You may not be callous toward their well being, but you also dont want them to have as strong of a voice to stand up for what they see as "right".

Every management company wants a safe environment.

 

What other rights do you need besides: pay for your work, safe environment, tools for the job, free from discrimination or harassment..

 

Every job I ever had had those, what special rights do you get by giving them money?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Every management company wants a safe environment.

 

What other rights do you need besides: pay for your work, safe environment, tools for the job, free from discrimination or harassment..

 

Every job I ever had had those, what special rights do you get by giving them money?

We get higher wages for one. A good benefit package. The biggest difference, local 597 has the largest pipefitting training center in the country. We train apprentices in our craft through schooling and on the job training from other trained fitters. Non union? They throw them to the wolves basically. They learn from people who arent as well trained. Plus, one day a non union guy could be doing insulation, doing a shltty job a lot of times. The next he is pipefitting, the next he is building scaffolding. Its hard enough to master one craft let alone even being competent in multiple ones.

 

Construction is a whole different animal than a warehouse. I agree that workers may not be any better off in a union working in a warehouse where it may indeed be antiquated. In construction however, you cannot tell me its antiquated when we send trained fitters to every job while the non union companies bring guys in who barely speak English to do the same work. If you have never worked on the actual piping systems of refineries or chemical plants, or have significant knowledge about the chemicals that run through these systems, you have no clue how insanely dangerous it is.

 

On top of danger, there is such a rush to get the job done that field foreman will push their guys passed the safety barries put in place. Yes the company itself doesnt want any incidents, but many times they push the boundries of safe/unsafe hoping for the best. These field foremen are under a lot of stress to get the job done quickly. Many times they just hope no one gets hurt, and thats on the frickin union side. I have seen what happens when non union jobs are pushed. It has resulted in some very serious fires in this area, and it lead to a massive release of hydrofloric acid that crippled 3 fitters for life.

[drobeski 3,061]

I am in Singapore supervising the installation of a purification train in a brand new 200k sq ft biotech manufacturing plant.

 

Safety is the #1 concern on this job 24/7. There have been over 2.5 million man hours worked on the site without one safety/injury incident.

They broke ground 9 months ago, there have been minimal cost over runs if any and the project will be completed on schedule.

The job is non union and there are over 900 "workers" of every trade on site 6 days a week.

(Can that be said for any union project ever?)

 

The is a safety meeting with the entire group before each day begins.

 

The "safety" mantra the union goons like to push is the biggest line of horseshchit around.

 

I know this as I witnessing it in action.

 

I now dozens of Union pipe fitters, most have missed work time due to work related injuries.

 

Horse schit kids, it's all horse schit.

 

 

And we wonder why companies are eager to invest elsewhere .....

[vuduchile 1,941]

18000 members is not small. My local has around 7k. I guess as a whole if we count all union pipefitters its a lot more, but they all have different local numbers.

 

As management i underatand the desire for less union workers. If your work does unionize its not going to make managements job easier. It all depends on the union really. I was a union employee working for Jewel Osco (grocery store) as a cashier, bagger, and stocker. It really didnt mean much to me at the time as i had no idea what i gained from the membership. The workers probably make a few bucks more than Wal Mart i assume.

 

Then there is the UAW which pretty much gave all unions a bad rap. They seriously were lazy ######. When us pipefitters would come to the Ford plant for a shutdown, where they actually shut down the plant so we can work on the piping systems, it was in the UAWs contract thst they got to come in and sit around while we worked for the same hours. If we were working 12 hour shifts, they got 12 hour shifts, even if it wasnt a normal shift for them.

 

Then there are trade unions. All of the ones in the Chicago area are hard working. Non union is encroaching on our work constantly so if we want to sit around and be lazy pieces of shlt, well we will lose all of our work.

 

Its really impossible to tell what impact a union will have on your line of work. What is your line of work and which aspect is being unionized? Ultimately unions do give workers more protection against their companies.

FYI :

 

One of the reps for your pipefitters Union uses Non Union contractors to perform the remodeling work at his home in the Chicago burbs. He could easily find and hire a Union shop, but purposely does not.

 

Why do you think he does that and how do you think that would make most of your co workers feel if they knew about it?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

FYI :

 

One of the reps for your pipefitters Union uses Non Union contractors to perform the remodeling work at his home in the Chicago burbs. He could easily find and hire a Union shop, but purposely does not.

 

Why do you think he does that and how do you think that would make most of your co workers feel if they knew about it?

It doesnt surprise me. As much as some people say they support American goods and union work, they definitely are not always following through when there is an option to choose. I really dont know how people would react. The unions who depended on residential work have pretty much dried up, so i am not sure how many union shops are available because i have done all of my renovations myself so far.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

I am in Singapore supervising the installation of a purification train in a brand new 200k sq ft biotech manufacturing plant.

 

Safety is the #1 concern on this job 24/7. There have been over 2.5 million man hours worked on the site without one safety/injury incident.

They broke ground 9 months ago, there have been minimal cost over runs if any and the project will be completed on schedule.

The job is non union and there are over 900 "workers" of every trade on site 6 days a week.

(Can that be said for any union project ever?)

 

The is a safety meeting with the entire group before each day begins.

 

The "safety" mantra the union goons like to push is the biggest line of horseshchit around.

 

I know this as I witnessing it in action.

 

I now dozens of Union pipe fitters, most have missed work time due to work related injuries.

 

Horse schit kids, it's all horse schit.

 

 

And we wonder why companies are eager to invest elsewhere .....

I never said we dont get hurt. There is going to be injuries in construction no matter what. I have seen some nasty injuries to union brothers. But i have heard about some pretty focking stupid ones from the non union side on the same job.

 

The non union arent trained nearly as well as us. If we are more aware of our job and understand the surroundings better, common sense says that we are more likely to have a safer approach.

 

Oh and a safety meeting in the morning doesnt mean much. There are plenty of places that have them. Hey if you have a customer who wants the contractors to take their time and avoid injury, then there is going to be a lower incident rate. The Citgo refinery in IL is run by a bunch of two faced azzholes. They require a safety meeting each morning. They tell us to take our time when filling out paper work. Look over the job and identify hazards before we start. Then they turn around and start asking the foremen Is it done Is it done Is it done??? Why not? Do we have to get non union workers to do it? They completely sabatoge their own claim to wanting safe work. Then they expect us to run our ass off to get the job done and pray we dont get hurt. If we do they pick apart every single aspect of what we did until they find a sliver of fault to blame the worker.

 

You obviously dont work in the same construction environments as me. If you think what i am capable of is equal to the average non union "pipefitter" then you sir are dead focking wrong.

 

I still do respect that you do work in the construction industry. But its also frustrating because you just prefer less of a hassle from unions who have more power to make sure their employees are protected.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

Another thing Drobs, dont sit here and act like all unions are bad. Some are unnecessary i will admit. Some are run by crooked people. But by and large in my area for the Trade Unions specifically, they are mucu better than non union and good for its workers.

[drobeski 3,061]

Another thing Drobs, dont sit here and act like all unions are bad. Some are unnecessary i will admit. Some are run by crooked people. But by and large in my area for the Trade Unions specifically, they are mucu better than non union and good for its workers.

they aren't and didn't mean to knock you but injuries and accidents can and do happen on both non union and Union jobs, the idea that a union job is safer is not valid imo. Safety is up to the worker himself.

 

I have no problem with trade unions, they provide a service and aren't funded by the tax payer, you need to produce or your not getting the next job.

 

Municipal unions are another matter, just stealing from the taxpayers and basically providing nothing.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

I am in Singapore supervising the installation of a purification train in a brand new 200k sq ft biotech manufacturing plant.

 

Safety is the #1 concern on this job 24/7. There have been over 2.5 million man hours worked on the site without one safety/injury incident.

They broke ground 9 months ago, there have been minimal cost over runs if any and the project will be completed on schedule.

The job is non union and there are over 900 "workers" of every trade on site 6 days a week.

(Can that be said for any union project ever?)

 

The is a safety meeting with the entire group before each day begins.

 

The "safety" mantra the union goons like to push is the biggest line of horseshchit around.

 

I know this as I witnessing it in action.

 

I now dozens of Union pipe fitters, most have missed work time due to work related injuries.

 

Horse schit kids, it's all horse schit.

 

 

And we wonder why companies are eager to invest elsewhere .....

You've always struck me as a worldly individual

[IGotWorms 3,315]

they aren't and didn't mean to knock you but injuries and accidents can and do happen on both non union and Union jobs, the idea that a union job is safer is not valid imo. Safety is up to the worker himself.

 

I have no problem with trade unions, they provide a service and aren't funded by the tax payer, you need to produce or your not getting the next job.

 

Municipal unions are another matter, just stealing from the taxpayers and basically providing nothing.

I'm not in the construction biz, but that's just dumb.

[vuduchile 1,941]

I'm not in the construction biz, but that's just dumb.

It's not entirely off base. Workers share some responsibility for making sure they use proper techniques and don't take short cuts with power tools.

 

The company shoulders responsibility for safety training and supervision, but employees must execute.

[IGotWorms 3,315]

It's not entirely off base. Workers share some responsibility for making sure they use proper techniques and don't take short cuts with power tools.

 

The company shoulders responsibility for safety training and supervision, but employees must execute.

Well sure, some of the responsibility. But that's not what drobs said and it's way off base. You are dependent on others for your safety at times so clearly it must be a management/oversight issue first and foremost.

 

Not to mention you can't watch out well for your own safety if the priority from the top is speed and economy instead of safety.

 

Drobs' line of thinking shows exactly why unions may be necessary. Isn't that ironic?

[Strike 3,979]

Well sure, some of the responsibility. But that's not what drobs said and it's way off base. You are dependent on others for your safety at times so clearly it must be a management/oversight issue first and foremost.

 

Not to mention you can't watch out well for your own safety if the priority from the top is speed and economy instead of safety.

 

Drobs' line of thinking shows exactly why unions may be necessary. Isn't that ironic?

 

I don't think so. Largely due to Unions a hundred years ago we have laws that mandate minimum standards for safety. I guess companies COULD ignore those laws but I doubt their workforce, who are undoubtedly aware of the requirements, would let them. So the infrastructure is in place to ensure safety. It's up to the employees to follow the mandated standards in order for those measures to work.

[mayhem39 3]

Every management company wants a safe environment.

 

What other rights do you need besides: pay for your work, safe environment, tools for the job, free from discrimination or harassment..

 

Every job I ever had had those, what special rights do you get by giving them money?

Well we certainly wouldn't want the corporations to give up any of their power over the workforce. I mean these poor companies just take it in the ass at every turn while the workers climb into the 1%.

[hoytdwow 202]

I am in Singapore supervising the installation of a purification train in a brand new 200k sq ft biotech manufacturing plant.

Is that what they're calling toilets over there?

[drobeski 3,061]

Is that what they're calling toilets over there?

stick with your sucking from the government teet day job

Funny you ain't got.

[drobeski 3,061]

I'm not in the construction biz, but that's just dumb.

be careful you don't get a paper cut

[vuduchile 1,941]

Well sure, some of the responsibility. But that's not what drobs said and it's way off base. You are dependent on others for your safety at times so clearly it must be a management/oversight issue first and foremost.

 

Not to mention you can't watch out well for your own safety if the priority from the top is speed and economy instead of safety.

 

Drobs' line of thinking shows exactly why unions may be necessary. Isn't that ironic?

A construction foreman keeps his crew up to date on all the safety and OSHA rules, gives them training, and corrects them when he sees them using unsafe practices. He has regular meetings and starts each day by reviewing relevant safety topics.

 

But he can't stand over every single carpenter to make sure they never use a miter saw cross handed, lift the guard on a table saw, or stretch 6" too far so they can reach that last nail.

 

Carpenters aren't robots that can be programmed to only lift with their knees.

 

How about you stick to the fake courtroom and I'll handle the fake construction biz stuff around here?

[IGotWorms 3,315]

A construction foreman keeps his crew up to date on all the safety and OSHA rules, gives them training, and corrects them when he sees them using unsafe practices. He has regular meetings and starts each day by reviewing relevant safety topics.

 

But he can't stand over every single carpenter to make sure they never use a miter saw cross handed, lift the guard on a table saw, or stretch 6" too far so they can reach that last nail.

 

Carpenters aren't robots that can be programmed to only lift with their knees.

 

How about you stick to the fake courtroom and I'll handle the fake construction biz stuff around here?

Okay, why don't you start off with something other than short-sighted and wrong?

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

A construction foreman keeps his crew up to date on all the safety and OSHA rules, gives them training, and corrects them when he sees them using unsafe practices. He has regular meetings and starts each day by reviewing relevant safety topics.

 

But he can't stand over every single carpenter to make sure they never use a miter saw cross handed, lift the guard on a table saw, or stretch 6" too far so they can reach that last nail.

 

Carpenters aren't robots that can be programmed to only lift with their knees.

 

How about you stick to the fake courtroom and I'll handle the fake construction biz stuff around here?

And labor laws means a contractor would never put their workers in a dangerous position. I mean its illegal, so no one is ever in any danger because of their superiors, because, you know, labor laws.

[vuduchile 1,941]

Okay, why don't you start off with something other than short-sighted and wrong?

Sure. I could go with reactionary and uniformed. Will you teach me how?

[vuduchile 1,941]

 

And labor laws means a contractor would never put their workers in a dangerous position. I mean its illegal, so no one is ever in any danger because of their superiors, because, you know, labor laws.[/quote

 

Not saying that, but blaming management when a worker makes a bad judgement call or fails to follow safety precautions is silly.

 

It works both ways, but I really don't expect a union guy to agree.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

 

 

And labor laws means a contractor would never put their workers in a dangerous position. I mean its illegal, so no one is ever in any danger because of their superiors, because, you know, labor laws.[/quote

 

Not saying that, but blaming management when a worker makes a bad judgement call or fails to follow safety precautions is silly.

 

It works both ways, but I really don't expect a union guy to agree.

 

The workers at ground zero were told the air was safe after 9/11. Now why would someone say that when it just wasn't true? I guess it was the workers fault they got sick

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

 

 

And labor laws means a contractor would never put their workers in a dangerous position. I mean its illegal, so no one is ever in any danger because of their superiors, because, you know, labor laws.[/quote

 

Not saying that, but blaming management when a worker makes a bad judgement call or fails to follow safety precautions is silly.

 

It works both ways, but I really don't expect a union guy to agree.

 

I know it works both ways. I have seen union guys make poor decisions. One dude put a piece of pipe through the bed of a truck due to poor rigging and almost killed someone. In the end we are construction workers and most didnt even try college.

 

You cant just say that there are laws in place so there for no need for unions, like these laws are any guarantee that a boss will not put his crew in harms way. With a union wr have more protection than non union. I have seen it first hand. Even if you have experienced it also, if you havent worked in the environments i have, you dont have a clue.

[Hardcore troubadour 12,656]

A coal mining executive just got sentenced to a year in jail because of a collapse that he could have prevented.

[Frozenbeernuts 1,652]

A coal mining executive just got sentenced to a year in jail because of a collapse that he could have prevented.

Unpossible. There are laws in place to prevent things like that from happening. It was obviously the workers fault.

[Big Blue 06 195]

Well, I see that I've opened up a can of worms by mentioning union, but our vote was today. 14 voters, it came down 9-5 against the union. Good day for me.

[Mungwater 588]

Well, I see that I've opened up a can of worms by mentioning union, but our vote was today. 14 voters, it came down 9-5 against the union. Good day for me.

Good for you and your company, bad for the union shakedowns

[southcarolina 166]

I work in a non union manufacturing facility. my brother works for a unionized company.

 

He is constantly amazed at all the things my company does for us...catered lunches for hitting production/quality/safety goals, free gym membership,

 

I am constantly amazed at the crap he puts up with...occasionally being secretly followed by management from job to job making sure he adheres to every tiny detail of his job description, or at the end of his lunch break being forced to drive a mile or two away from where he ate lunch before logging on to his laptop to get his next job assignment so that the GPS tracker in his truck shows he moved.

 

 

My job isnt perfect, and his isnt all bad, but some of the nitpicking crap he puts up with would drive me crazy, and i would miss free BBQ and ribs.

[rholio 339]

Well, I see that I've opened up a can of worms by mentioning union, but our vote was today. 14 voters, it came down 9-5 against the union. Good day for me.

Good deal. No need for a union in a good company. Not all are, which is when unions come in handy.