Liberal kids become Conservatives, never the other way

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

 

So, let's discuss this, as I've been sick and tired of hearing about "income disparity." Yeah, we have it here. But as JFK said, a rising tide lifts all boats. So the rich get richerer, and the poor just get richer, but that sucks apparently because the poor get less richer than the rich. Like, the poor can't afford the bigger iPhone 8, only the slightly smaller one. The horror! First world problems. Heck, zeroth world problems.

 

You live in China, do you honestly think it is better?

First of all, Ill handle your last question first. Hell no its not better. Its far more capitalist here than America in most ways. There is zero safety net.

 

There are some ways in which it is better. Things are more affordable. Like healthcare being a prime example.

 

They seem to be more like where we were thirty years ago. Everything costs more in America. Food. Utilities. Clothing. Services. Everything.

 

The rising tide lifts all boats might have been true once. It no longer is. They dont reinvest it in anything. They hide it offshore. Even when they do reinvest, it is some no tax sweetheart land deal where all employees are subcontractors who have zero benefits and next to no security at all.

 

Im certainly not a socialist. I dont want to tax the rich out of existence or anything.

 

I do want to stop the rich from stacking the deck the way they have. At this point, the middle class is clinging to a storm swept rock in the sea while the poor class are basically proles from 1984.

 

Not to mention, most of our rich dont really produce anything anymore. They shuffle paper. Speculate here, hedge there.

 

Im just saying the pendulum has swung too far their way. And since they own the government, it aint likely to swing back.

[titans&bucs&bearsohmy! 2,745]

Two words - Corporate Welfare.

 

I used to apply for, bring in and cash checks straight from the Treasury for tens and hundreds of millions of dollars to support an industry that couldn't stand on its own. If fact, I could point you from memory the exactly publication that explains how easy it is done. I'll guaran-focking-tee you, it's a shiitload less paperwork and conditions and pre-conditions and limitations than a $42/week WIC subsidy for a mom making minimum wage.

 

Not sure what your definition of 'capitalism' is, but in my world? You'd let the shiit industry fail and let new technology take its place. Been working pretty well for the last 200 years or so.

 

That's the sad, ignorant irony of today's mouth-breathing Foxers; They biitch about the millions given to the working poor, but are completely clueless as to the billions given to the rich through either massive loopholes or in this case, staright focking cash subsidies.

 

Made me sick, but hey, Focking Texaco, Chevron, BP - you name it - were doing the same damn thing.

 

There's a reason why Warren Buffet is pissed that he has a much lower effective tax rate than his secretary.

- Wanna argue that he's a whiny libruhl socialist loving, capitalism & Murca hating lefty?

Yep. And the banks. Oh my god. They issue credit cards. Get paid for however long. Charge interest that should be illegal.

 

Then, when they deem it a bad debt, they write it off on their taxes. Even though they didnt really lose anything.

 

And then, the turn around and sell the debt off to the collection industry, like my old job. That transaction is just pure profit.

 

Not to mention the student loan and housing boondoggles that basically hands taxpayer moneys to the banks for doing nothing.

[wiffleball 4,646]

Jerry, a rising tide does not lift all boats. It's a cute saying but it's just not true. As evidenced by the fact that our middle class is all but gone now. Compare the middle class when JFK said that cute little quote versus now. We are rapidly becoming Mexico. Meaning, Mexico literally has no middle class anymore. There is only the super-wealthy which holds 99% of the country's wealth and then the rest. We are very much like that and getting worse every year. And it's pretty easy to figure out why. For example, look at average CEO pay versus average employee pay. That alone is a pretty good explanation of our country's macroeconomy, and the micro-economy found in the disappearing middle class.

 

Personally, I hate the idea of our government having to deal with income distribution via taxes and entitlements. I would much rather responsible boards wake up and do something about the disparity between the top paid at their corporations and the average pay for 99% of their employees. Unfortunately, not everybody is Warren Buffett.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,592]

there is no middle class in the USA? are you kidding me

 

50% of households make 40-120k a year

[wiffleball 4,646]

there is no middle class in the USA? are you kidding me

 

50% of households make 40-120k a year

 

I'm really not in the mood to waste the day on this - especially unsourced. Here's a couple. Read/Refute - whatever.

 

https://www.sanders.senate.gov/newsroom/must-read/the-middle-class-in-america-is-radically-shrinking-here-are-the-stats-to-prove-it

 

Here's s a few that really jumped out at me though:

 

• In 1950, the ratio of the average executive's paycheck to the average worker's paycheck was about 30 to 1. Since the year 2000, that ratio has exploded to between 300 to 500 to one.

• As of 2007, the bottom 80 percent of American households held about 7% of the liquid financial assets.

• The bottom 50 percent of income earners in the United States now collectively own less than 1 percent of the nation’s wealth.

 

http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2016/05/11/americas-shrinking-middle-class-a-close-look-at-changes-within-metropolitan-areas/

 

From 2000 to 2014 the share of adults living in middle-income households fell in 203 of the 229 U.S. metropolitan areas examined

 

 

 

I'm not in the mood for dueling statistics. You believe otherwise? Hey, good for you. But the idea of a shrinking middle class may be the one thing in economics that most experts and empirical evidence all seem to agree upon.

 

Everything else surrounding it? Is the usual macroeconomic mental masterbation.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,592]

I just went by this

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-income-us-state-2017-9

 

Defined by Pew as those earning 67% to 200% of the median income — $39,560 to $118,080 in 2016 — only about half of Americans can call themselves middle class. Lower-income households account for 29%, while upper-income households make up the rest, according to Pew.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,592]

Quite frankly, if you take ANY information from Bernie Sanders on economics just stop, dude wants socialism and his numbers are cherry picked to reflect that

 

all I stated is that 50% of Americans earn from 40-120k which is exactly right

 

Bernies stats show that people suck at money management and should be given more government help

[Thornton Melon 544]

I may have no class, but I am middle class.

[Gladiators 1,904]

Seen it both ways, but seen more at least lean conservative once they start making money. I'll bet most libs here aren't nearly as left leaning as they were 15 years ago.

 

[MTSkiBum 1,594]

I just went by this

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/middle-class-income-us-state-2017-9

 

Defined by Pew as those earning 67% to 200% of the median income $39,560 to $118,080 in 2016 only about half of Americans can call themselves middle class. Lower-income households account for 29%, while upper-income households make up the rest, according to Pew.

A single dude making 40k a year is middle class, a family of 4 living off of 40k a year is probably struggling. Using the earnings alone is not enough to be able to tell who is middle class.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,592]

A single dude making 40k a year is middle class, a family of 4 living off of 40k a year is probably struggling. Using the earnings alone is not enough to be able to tell who is middle class.

 

move the goal posts to fit your facts. I give facts as defined by definition.

 

its just as easy to say, 40k a year living in North Dakota is great money, but in California you can't get by

[Filthy Fernadez 2,696]

No one forces people to stay where they're at and complain they can't survive on how much they make per year. Either move to where that will be enough to survive or get another and/or higher paying job.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,592]

No one forces people to stay where they're at and complain they can't survive on how much they make per year. Either move to where that will be enough to survive or get another and/or higher paying job.

 

people think McDonalds fry cook is a career

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,592]

follow these 3 things, and you have a 2% chance of living in poverty

 

Finish High School

Get a job (any job)

Get married before having kids

 

do that simple thing and you will be successful in life at some point

[penultimatestraw 473]

follow these 3 things, and you have a 2% chance of living in poverty

 

Finish High School

Get a job (any job)

Get married before having kids

 

do that simple thing and you will be successful in life at some point

Not bad suggestions, but evading poverty <> success.

[RaiderHaters Revenge 3,592]

Not bad suggestions, but evading poverty <> success.

 

no but you might own a modest home, drive a decent car, and live within your means. Also you are role models for your kids who start out just a little bit better

 

you also give yourself a chance thru hardwork to move up in the class system. Larry Elder's piece on this was excellent, basically his dad took whatever job he could find, which happened to be cleaning toilets, worked there for years, got a job cleaning at a diner in LA, and saved every bit of change he ever had, eventually he was able to buy the diner. He was the American Dream, he came from nothing and took nothing for granted.

 

I think both sides of the isle should watch this and realize that this is why I think everyone has a fair chance

 

[iam90sbaby 2,125]

I go back and forth with the trickle down effect from my experience it is absolutely bullish!t. It makes sense when explained to someone and it is a good theory, but in the real world it just doesnt work like that. Its the same as socialism except on the opposite end of the spectrum. Looks good on paper but just doesnt work. I think the current system we have is actually fine if the laws that were in place were actually enforced. When you give the uber rich tax breaks they dont pay their people better, they just buy more things. The unwritten moral code that business owners use to follow no longer exist.

 

I forget which turn of the century American business owner it was, I think Henry Ford, but an inventor invented something that would save him the work of 40 men and make him more money. Instead of using the technology he said it is important that he keep his city employed.. do you think that would ever happen now days? No.

[Strike 3,980]

I go back and forth with the trickle down effect from my experience it is absolutely bullish!t. It makes sense when explained to someone and it is a good theory, but in the real world it just doesnt work like that. Its the same as socialism except on the opposite end of the spectrum. Looks good on paper but just doesnt work. I think the current system we have is actually fine if the laws that were in place were actually enforced.

 

Yeah I don't know about that trickle down stuff either. I'm fine with the current system as well. I wouldn't even mind paying a little more in taxes if EVERYONE else was required to as well and it was guaranteed to go towards lowering our national debt. People don't realize how in debt we are as a nation, and all the politicians want to do is put us MORE in debt. it's disgusting. I'd also like a less complicated tax system with fewer deductions.