Coaching Changes

[Mike FF Today 721]

1. Texans have fired Lovie Smith.

 

[nobody 2,569]

Couldn't even tank right.

[Mike FF Today 721]

2. Arizona has fired HC Kliff Kingbury.

 

[nobody 2,569]

Will it be Jeff Saturday, Ron Rivera, the interim coach for Denver, or the guy in Carolina next?

 

[nobody 2,569]

Kingsbury had to go.  They can't fire Kyler Murray.  

[Ray_T 740]

3 minutes ago, nobody said:

Kingsbury had to go.  They can't fire Kyler Murray.  

no but they could trade him..... 

the smarter move is likely finding a coach who can work with him.  I have heard that Murray can be difficult at times so I'm guessing not everyone has that ability.

[weepaws 3,158]

I said it last offseason, they shouldn’t have invested so much into Murray, I’ve read that he’s a tough one to deal with.  But I don’t think moving on from Kingsbury isn’t a bad move for the team.  

[Ray_T 740]

20 minutes ago, weepaws said:

I said it last offseason, they should’ve invested so much into Murray, I’ve read that he’s a tough one to deal with.  But I don’t think moving on from Kingsbury isn’t a bad move for the team.  

well, the team performed reasonably up until this year when the team was riddled with injuries.

what I dont know is if they performed well because of Murray or because of Kingsbury (or despite either of their presence)

 

 

[Showboat 252]

59 minutes ago, nobody said:

Will it be Jeff Saturday, Ron Rivera, the interim coach for Denver, or the guy in Carolina next?

 

I don't think interim coaches (Colts, Broncos, Panthers) get fired.  Irsay is probably stupid enough to make Saturday permanent.  Carolina would be smart to keep Wilks.  Rivera should also stay - he was reasonably competent in keeping the team focused with all of the front office nonsense going on and it would be stupid to make a change when there could be potentially new ownership in the near future (so you may be right, Rivera could be the next to go).

[weepaws 3,158]

I not see any real positive things that happen with Zona since they hired Kingsbury. 

Didn’t Kingsbury get a raise before the 2022 season began? 

Murray I think and from what I’ve seen said about him, and read about him.  seems like a really arse.  

 

[Ray_T 740]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

Murray I think and from what I’ve seen said about him, and read about him.  seems like a really arse

I've heard that too.  lets put it this way, they felt the need to tie in clauses related to him studying and doing his film time etc before games so My guess is that hes not the most disciplined QB out there.

and thats only the stuff we know about.  there is probably plenty we dont know about.

thats the scary thing.   If I were a GM I'd be scared to trade for a guy like that.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

Arizona screwed up with Kyler Murray, let's see if Baltimore is smart enough to not replicate their mistake... so far they have been, but you never know.

[Bills04 56]

1 hour ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Arizona screwed up with Kyler Murray, let's see if Baltimore is smart enough to not replicate their mistake... so far they have been, but you never know.

 

L-Jax in BAL wants a FULLY GUARANTEED contract, like K. Cousins got.  And, recently, D. Watson.  BAL has refused (so far).

[Bills04 56]

3 hours ago, weepaws said:

I not see any real positive things that happen with Zona since they hired Kingsbury. 

Didn’t Kingsbury get a raise before the 2022 season began? 

Murray I think and from what I’ve seen said about him, and read about him.  seems like a really arse.  

 

 

Yes, ARI just extended Kingsbury, thru .. 2027.  Doh!! 

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

5 minutes ago, Bills04 said:

 

L-Jax in BAL wants a FULLY GUARANTEED contract, like K. Cousins got.  And, recently, D. Watson.  BAL has refused (so far).

Yup.  I was more specifically talking about an extension.  If Baltimore is smart, they tag Jackson and trade him.

[nobody 2,569]

4 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Yup.  I was more specifically talking about an extension.  If Baltimore is smart, they tag Jackson and trade him.

That Ravens situation is interesting to me.  They revamped their entire offense to work with Lamar.  If he goes to a team that isn't willing to design a whole new offense and expects him to run a normal pro style offense, he'll crash and burn.  Baltimore is really a good spot for him.  

I bet Lamar would do one of those "hold-ins" if they franchise tag him.

 

[weepaws 3,158]

I would agree about Mr Jackson, I have no ideal what team would make a change to his style of play.  

He cant change his game to fit a normal offense. 

[Ray_T 740]

1 hour ago, weepaws said:

I would agree about Mr Jackson, I have no ideal what team would make a change to his style of play.  

He cant change his game to fit a normal offense. 

look Jackson is a good enough QB, but you also need a Coach who can run a playbook suitable to his skillset.  not all teams have that.

further to this, Jackson is a running QB who will be 27 years old before next season begins.  most QB's like him are done by 30 due to injury.  Look at Newton, McNabb played beyond 30 but was oft injured.   RGIII didnt even make it that far.   a long term fully guaranteed deal makes no sense for a player like him.

better off doing the franchise tag.  maybe 2 back to back and let him go at 29.  if some other team wants to sign him to a long term deal at that time I'd let him go.

or

if someone offers them a sweetheart of a deal for Lamar, maybe they trade him.

but make no mistake, this guy has likely a 3 year shelf life.   4 years tops.  so if hes asking for 5+ years fully guaranteed you may be just as well off doing the franchise tag thing.

I like the trade idea too but there may not be a lot of buyers out there.

[weepaws 3,158]

I can’t think of a team that would want to.  

[Bills04 56]

"better off doing the franchise tag.  maybe 2 back to back and let him go at 29."

 

Yup.  I read an article / interview with L-Jax this off-season.  That is likely what will happen.  He either wants: 1) a LT contract, fully-guaranteed, or 2) the Kirk Cousins "trap" / situation - where the use of the franchise tag becomes prohibitively expensive, and then BAL *has to* give him a LT contract, fully-guaranteed - or cuts his a$$.

[LaChup 229]

On 1/8/2023 at 8:36 PM, nobody said:

Couldn't even tank right.

Only coach to get fired for winning.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

On 1/9/2023 at 6:15 PM, nobody said:

That Ravens situation is interesting to me.  They revamped their entire offense to work with Lamar.  If he goes to a team that isn't willing to design a whole new offense and expects him to run a normal pro style offense, he'll crash and burn.  Baltimore is really a good spot for him.  

I bet Lamar would do one of those "hold-ins" if they franchise tag him.

 

If I'm Baltimore, I don't care how Lamar does once he leaves my team.  I think the tag and trade route is the way to go.  Sure, for Lamar, Baltimore is the right spot.  But for Baltimore, Lamar isn't the right QB.  You can't build a contender around him under a big money contract.  If they pay him $40M a year (the going rate for new QB signings), they won't have the capital to build around him.  It only works now because he's only making $2M+.

Tag him and allow him to shop himself to get a new deal and then try and work out a trade with that team is the way to go.  Detroit would actually be a great fit for him.  They have 3 running backs, a very good WR, a solid OLine, and an improving defense.  Detroit has 2 first round picks, 2 second round picks, and a 3rd in this coming draft.  They have 5 of the first 81 picks.  One of their picks is #6 from the Rams.  In my opinion, that pick alone is enough to give up for Lamar (me, I'd give them #18, but I'm guessing that wouldn't be enough... though it should be).  They can also probably get a 4th round pick for Goff (Detroit doesn't have a 4th).  I actually wouldn't be upset if Tampa gave up a 4th for a 2-year rental/try out for him.  Make Trask beat out Goff.  If he does, then they cut Goff next year.  If not, he has 2 years to prove he's worth a longer deal... and he'll be cheaper than what Brady was these past 3 years.

[AxeElf 787]

3 hours ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Detroit would actually be a great fit for him.

Except that Detroit already has a QB who can axually get the ball downfield to the impressive stable of WRs they are assembling.

Trading for a QB who can't throw when you have two top 10 WRs on your team doesn't seem like the most shrewd play there.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

1 hour ago, AxeElf said:

Except that Detroit already has a QB who can axually get the ball downfield to the impressive stable of WRs they are assembling.

Trading for a QB who can't throw when you have two top 10 WRs on your team doesn't seem like the most shrewd play there.

Goff stinks.  We know he's maxed out, not getting better, and we know you can't win with him.  Jackson, while I personally don't believe in him, I don't think a defensive minded (Harbaugh), head coach will help bring out a QB's passing potential.  With an offensive minded coach, I'd be much happier seeing Jackson for 4 years than Goff for 2.  Especially since it'll only cost me $30M over the first 2 years to find out.

Goff makes them continually "average".  That's not the goal, I'm thinking.  That's why I'm suggesting the trade and seeing it as a fit.  Now, if the Lions think that packaging up pick #6 and #18 to get up to #1 to take a QB, then that's fine too.  Personally, that's the direction I'd go in.

[AxeElf 787]

5 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

we know you can't win with him.

Except that they just did.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

3 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Except that they just did.

Miss the playoffs?  Yeah, I know.  

[AxeElf 787]

7 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Miss the playoffs?  Yeah, I know.  

Wow, incredibly poor reading comprehension.

Let me take your hand and lead you through our conversation.

You said:

17 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

we know you can't win with him

And I said:

10 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

Except that they just did.

So the action that "did" refers to is "win."  The Lions won their final game, keeping Green Bay out of the playoffs and completing a 9-8 winning season.

In other words, your claim is nullified by the events taking place in reality.

Does that help?

[jrokh 608]

Goff finished the season 5th in the NFL in Total QBR. Whoever says he stinks doesn’t know football…

[Ray_T 740]

46 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

Goff stinks.  We know he's maxed out, not getting better, and we know you can't win with him.  Jackson, while I personally don't believe in him, I don't think a defensive minded (Harbaugh), head coach will help bring out a QB's passing potential.  With an offensive minded coach, I'd be much happier seeing Jackson for 4 years than Goff for 2.  Especially since it'll only cost me $30M over the first 2 years to find out.

Goff makes them continually "average".  That's not the goal, I'm thinking.  That's why I'm suggesting the trade and seeing it as a fit.  Now, if the Lions think that packaging up pick #6 and #18 to get up to #1 to take a QB, then that's fine too.  Personally, that's the direction I'd go in.

I dont think hes that bad actually.  he was good with the Rams under McVay.  then he moved to a team that literally had no receivers I'd heard of at the start of the year and performed decently.  not great, but certainly not as bad as I would have thought.

this year, with a growing stable of WR he progressed and improved through the year and that offense looked good.

I think hes gonna be there a while.

I dont know that he will ever be an all star, hes likely a cut below that but hes serviceable and if the team puts together a decent defense, I could see that team being competitive going down the road.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

6 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

I dont think hes that bad actually.  he was good with the Rams under McVay.  then he moved to a team that literally had no receivers I'd heard of at the start of the year and performed decently.  not great, but certainly not as bad as I would have thought.

this year, with a growing stable of WR he progressed and improved through the year and that offense looked good.

I think hes gonna be there a while.

I dont know that he will ever be an all star, hes likely a cut below that but hes serviceable and if the team puts together a decent defense, I could see that team being competitive going down the road.

He was mediocre on a great team with McVay.  He showed signs of improvement from suck up to average, then teams figured him out.  He's "ok".  I don't think you can win a playoff game with him.  I'm not even sure you can GET to the playoffs with him, unless you have a stud team around him (which happened in LA).  I would be ok with that if he's making $15M a year... not $36M (like he's getting now or will probably want), if he's re-signed.  I'd much rather have Jackson at that price than Goff.

Personally, I'd rather draft a QB to replace him.

[Ray_T 740]

jackson wont be 35 mil.  hed be 40+

[AxeElf 787]

14 minutes ago, TBayXXXVII said:

I'm not even sure you can GET to the playoffs with him

The Lions would have done that this year too, if Seattle hadn't pulled out the overtime win against the Rams last week.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

13 minutes ago, AxeElf said:

The Lions would have done that this year too, if Seattle hadn't pulled out the overtime win against the Rams last week.

So right, he couldn't do it... he needed help.

[Ray_T 740]

1 minute ago, TBayXXXVII said:

So right, he couldn't do it... he needed help.

honestly, the problem in Detroit wasnt really with the offense.  their defense was not good at all.

it improved down the stretch but still if you want to win the D needs to be at least decent and most of the year it wasnt.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

14 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

jackson wont be 35 mil.  hed be 40+

I was refereeing to Goff when saying $36M, not Jackson.

[Ray_T 740]

6 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

honestly, the problem in Detroit wasnt really with the offense.  their defense was not good at all.

it improved down the stretch but still if you want to win the D needs to be at least decent and most of the year it wasnt.

further to this, 

they scored 35 points in week 1 and lost.

they scored 45 points in week 4 and lost

week 8 they scored 27 and lost.   this one is more dicey but usually 27 points is enough to get a win if your defense is halfway decent.

 

if they win any one of these games they would have been in the playoffs.

I dont know how bad a defense has to be to lose a game when the offense puts up 45 points but to me thats pretty bad.

[TBayXXXVII 2,485]

3 minutes ago, Ray_T said:

honestly, the problem in Detroit wasnt really with the offense.  their defense was not good at all.

it improved down the stretch but still if you want to win the D needs to be at least decent and most of the year it wasnt.

I think we saw the best version of Jared Goff that we'll ever see in Detroit.  Teams will now go back and study what Detroit did this year and attack them differently, just like with the Rams, and he'll be "meh" again.  Like I said, I'm ok with that if I'm paying him like $15M to $20M... which is what he's getting right now, but you're not going to win anything with him until you build an elite team around him.  And you're certainly not going to pay him big money.  Basically, he's Joe Flacco.  A mediocre QB who won't ruin it for you if you have an elite team around him, but he won't carry your team if you end up paying him big money and lose other players.

[weepaws 3,158]

I don’t think it would be a good move for the Lions to go after Jackson. He doesn’t fit.  

Goff 48 tds 15 ints last two seasons, I think he’s a good fit for the Lions.  

[Mike FF Today 721]

Back to the original topic, which is coaches...

 

[Ray_T 740]

21 hours ago, weepaws said:

I don’t think it would be a good move for the Lions to go after Jackson. He doesn’t fit.  

Goff 48 tds 15 ints last two seasons, I think he’s a good fit for the Lions.  

hes not going anywhere.   

at this point the only way it will happen is if he has a disaster of a season next year or has a major injury.

right now hes playing well, the offense is playing well.   the team has lots of draft picks so if they can get an impact player on defense (or two) , they may be a scary team next season.